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mopinko

(70,424 posts)
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 02:39 PM Sep 2023

ya know what i think judge chutkin should do? she should order

a psyche eval.
i’ve said many times i’d rather see him in a mental hospital than jail. we need to have a serious convo in this country about mental health, and how to recognize a madman when u see 1.

subpoena his records from reed. there’s mri’s, evals when he had covid. it’s everything he needs to plead mental incompetence. i honestly think that is the best possible outcome.

eta- he dies in prison, he’s a folk hero. he dies in a facility for the criminally insane, not so much. i hope.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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ya know what i think judge chutkin should do? she should order (Original Post) mopinko Sep 2023 OP
Great idea. FalloutShelter Sep 2023 #1
Hmmm... 2naSalit Sep 2023 #2
Trouble is, he could be released from a psychiatric institution. wnylib Sep 2023 #31
And PHI. PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION if Captain Zero Sep 2023 #32
Yeah... 2naSalit Sep 2023 #37
Like the idea of trump in a straight jacket and padded cell. Hope he gets Nurse Ratched. Silent Type Sep 2023 #3
Hehehhehhe malaise Sep 2023 #6
I'd settle for him being treated the same as Reality Winner and Jack Teixeira. LonePirate Sep 2023 #4
They were flight risks. He's not. onenote Sep 2023 #14
He's not a flight risk? MorbidButterflyTat Sep 2023 #18
It's so good that the cheerleaders are so dedicated to their quest to make people feel stupid. Orrex Sep 2023 #19
He has the resources to be a flight risk. I think the reason he hasn't done it is... thesquanderer Sep 2023 #25
Not really Nasruddin Sep 2023 #30
re: "Who'd help him?" thesquanderer Sep 2023 #36
he is threatening witnesses prodigitalson Sep 2023 #26
That's something the prosecutor or client's attorney makes a motion for. marble falls Sep 2023 #5
the judge cant? mopinko Sep 2023 #7
Fortunately Jack Smith is way smarter than that. onenote Sep 2023 #15
Narcissism is now a DSM5 diagnosis as far as I know bucolic_frolic Sep 2023 #8
if an honest doc had conducted the last 1, we wouldnt be here. mopinko Sep 2023 #10
I'm in.. Grasswire2 Sep 2023 #9
dont think hipaa applies to criminal proceeding. mopinko Sep 2023 #11
Ya know what I think she should do? getagrip_already Sep 2023 #12
if the eval finds there's no way he will ever keep his mouth shut mopinko Sep 2023 #13
What psych exam can conclude that with certainty onenote Sep 2023 #16
100% Agree Ozzi Sep 2023 #17
Dear Ozzi the Aussie - Nice thoughtful post. Interesting. Welcome to DU. RussellCattle Sep 2023 #27
Just wait for cross-examination bmichaelh Sep 2023 #20
Perhaps... 2naSalit Sep 2023 #29
I agree but, he would likely refuse Quakerfriend Sep 2023 #21
when i say psyche eval, i mean a 72 hr hold, mopinko Sep 2023 #22
Yes, definitely needed! Quakerfriend Sep 2023 #24
He's not pleading insanity or mental impairment, so there's no reason to order one. tinrobot Sep 2023 #23
he's a danger to witnesses and jurors. mopinko Sep 2023 #33
If the judge thinks he's a danger, she has the authority to jail him until trial. tinrobot Sep 2023 #35
the end of mental health Nasruddin Sep 2023 #28
i wish i thought that was possible. mopinko Sep 2023 #34

2naSalit

(87,082 posts)
2. Hmmm...
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 02:45 PM
Sep 2023

I have had the same scenario playing in the background off and on for a while and I think there's some value to the point of his ultimate demise and remembrance.

I wonder if that is how it plays out for him. I would be okay with it only if all his enablers receive their due.

wnylib

(21,844 posts)
31. Trouble is, he could be released from a psychiatric institution.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:52 PM
Sep 2023

All it would take is for 2 or 3 psychiatrists (whatever is required by law) to sign release papers.

Also, any diagnosis or commitment would be appealed.

2naSalit

(87,082 posts)
37. Yeah...
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 06:41 PM
Sep 2023

No matter what we manage to do he manages to get out of some way or another. The practice of looking the other way is what got us here and it will need to stop. I doubt it will.

LonePirate

(13,456 posts)
4. I'd settle for him being treated the same as Reality Winner and Jack Teixeira.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 02:51 PM
Sep 2023

They were both held in jail without bond before trial for the same crimes he is accused of committing. There's no reason he should be treated any differently.

Some of his cultists will undoubtedly attempt to break him out of jail in that scenario so I am wondering if they will cite the 2A as the reason for their actions.

onenote

(42,911 posts)
14. They were flight risks. He's not.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 04:18 PM
Sep 2023

Despite the fantasy belief of some DUers that he's minutes away from flying off to Saudi Arabia or Moscow or somewhere.

thesquanderer

(12,008 posts)
25. He has the resources to be a flight risk. I think the reason he hasn't done it is...
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:27 PM
Sep 2023

...he does not believe there will actually be real consequences for him. There never has been. If he ever genuinely came to believe that he could be imprisoned, and could actually accept that as a possible reality (which would not be easy for him to believe), then yeah, I could see him skipping.

Nasruddin

(757 posts)
30. Not really
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:51 PM
Sep 2023

Who'd help him? He couldn't easily just pack up & leave.
Where would the money come from? Who'd fly the plane?

The US operates with near impunity *everywhere* in the world with a very few exceptions,
& Mr Trump is a giant security risk (unless the fairy tale that he's suffering
from dementia is true). US gov would never let him go, & the exceptions will
be very tough to get to without aid from people who will face a world of
bad consequences.

thesquanderer

(12,008 posts)
36. re: "Who'd help him?"
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 06:38 PM
Sep 2023

I imagine he could find assistance from numerous people in places like Russia and Saudi Arabia. And he has his own airplane, I assume he know how to find pilots.

bucolic_frolic

(43,612 posts)
8. Narcissism is now a DSM5 diagnosis as far as I know
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 03:07 PM
Sep 2023

but getting between here and there is convoluted. And imagine the repercussions for the shrinks. Should there be a panel of shrinks? (D), (R), and (I)? Who will decide tie-breakers? Will it include a Rorschach Test? Or just a panel of hundreds of questions loaded with negatives and positives? How many did he disagree with? All of them? Why am I not surprised?

Super-dominant abrasive personalities are everywhere. They're high achievers. How will we ever decide how much is too much?

mopinko

(70,424 posts)
10. if an honest doc had conducted the last 1, we wouldnt be here.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 03:10 PM
Sep 2023

he FLUNKED that test. it’s 5 UNRELATED words. and nobody thinks it’s hard if they still have a working brain.
no, it wont be complicated.

Grasswire2

(13,579 posts)
9. I'm in..
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 03:08 PM
Sep 2023

..but would the results be kept private? Or divulged?

With HIPPA, how would we learn? And who would order him to hospital?

mopinko

(70,424 posts)
11. dont think hipaa applies to criminal proceeding.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 03:11 PM
Sep 2023

med records get subpoenaed all the time. they get put in the public record.
no way it could/should be sealed.

getagrip_already

(15,072 posts)
12. Ya know what I think she should do?
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 03:39 PM
Sep 2023

She should do whatever it is she is going to do without my opinion, which is worthless to everyone involved, so I'm not going to share it here.

Seriously, what would a psych eval even prove? He couldn't be committed based on it. Not in this environment, and it would never be unsealed regardless for privacy reasons.

And fuck face would scream he passed it with flying colors.

All it could possibly do is give him an excuse for his behavior po ur, which we don't need.

onenote

(42,911 posts)
16. What psych exam can conclude that with certainty
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 04:20 PM
Sep 2023

And, no, she can't and won't. First amendment and prior restraints. If he violates a court order, he can face consequences for it. But he can't be locked up for what he might do.

Ozzi

(17 posts)
17. 100% Agree
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 04:46 PM
Sep 2023

I believe that Trump is a huge threat to global democracy, cultural harmony, environmental protection and nation unity. Even here in Australia I've thought his 'effect' was increasingly obvious in new Conservative Political trickery, increased racism and sexism crime etc. From Trump's behaviour and comments, it seems that he is unable to be self aware enough to not damage his own legal well being in interviews and comments. From what I have read and seen, I've wondered if he went from excess harsh judgmental parenting vulnerabilities to unfettered, unprincipled, undisciplined, self entitlement. With a touch of anger and cruelty. Someone who can talk about nuclear bombing cyclones, poisoning his own country by deregulating air & water protections or putting lead back into petrol, can't possibly be fully functioning. Much of what he wanted to do as president wasn't even in HIS own interest long term!
How anyone can vote him (or the anti-95% citizenship rights/protections GOP) to be their leader(s) is totally incomprehensible to me. Excess money in politics is always a bad idea. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how any judge can order any testing of Trumps cognitive, emotional stability, no matter how obviously it may be needed. Making him a martyr of any kind is not likely the best solution. Voting him out comprehensively is! Its just a shame that your Election systems have gradually been fixed to slant to the right. College voting system, gerrymandering, voter suppression/trickery and obvious unbalanced wealth influences are counter effective to good Elections and Governance. I also think more should be discussed about increasing the public spending of public education. That surely can only help bust through manipulative cult attractions. I think you need more Federal guidelines, not less.
Only way USA can get back to a reasonable 2x policy driven political party system is to help Democrats get a high enough vote (55-60%?) to gain a 60% power vote in the Congress & House. At present, Democrats seem to be the only Political Party that overall care about right and wrong, about citizen rights and protections, about environmental care, about quality public health care and education. and about maintaining a reasonably well balanced fair honest over-arching federal/defense/ judicial/monetary/public & private system.
Cult busting quality Public Education is a good start.
Iv been saying in a few posts you can combat Maga misinformation by using compare and contrast scenarios between states, democracies, political parties (history, statistics, graphs etc). Advance the idea of child future wellbeing. Use slogans that have impact. Simple messages sent everywhere and anywhere but especially sent to where they are needed the most. Show images of a Maga future alongside a Democratic future. Pin that picture to previous Trumpy wishlists such as journalistic restrictions, imprisoning political opposition, polluted water and air systems. extreme inequality, out of control pandemics etc etc. Look at his words, put them into a daily life picture with workers, family & children in that picture. Detail in list form, the history of each political party in relation to crime, corruption, policies etc. Compare and Contrast in simple pictures, graphs, statistics, freedoms etc can make ALL the difference in how people vote and how many people vote.
I thank my & my family's lucky stars that here in Australia, for each Federal and State Election, citizens are compelled to care and vote. Its made very easy, very convenient and the fine if you don't vote is minimal but still a deterrent against apathy and un involvement. We have great public schools, housing, health care and I am not afraid to leave my home due to excess violence or guns. My children have gone from a single parent household to their own businesses and high paying jobs. They have generous time off to manage family and health needs, as well as vital time to recreate and reflect. We have reasonable safety nets so violence and crime are reduced and people feel choices and chances to improve their lot in life. Grassroot upward protections and improvements - always the best way!

bmichaelh

(407 posts)
20. Just wait for cross-examination
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:01 PM
Sep 2023

Jack Smith probably will wait until cross-examination.

Trump would then appear like Queeg in the Caine Mutiny: "Ahh, but the strawberries! That's - that's where I had them"

Quakerfriend

(5,461 posts)
21. I agree but, he would likely refuse
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:08 PM
Sep 2023

any sort of evaluation.

What would happen if he were to be committed involuntarily??

mopinko

(70,424 posts)
22. when i say psyche eval, i mean a 72 hr hold,
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:17 PM
Sep 2023

w option to keep him for 30 days. like normal ppl who go around talking about hanging ppl.

tinrobot

(10,929 posts)
23. He's not pleading insanity or mental impairment, so there's no reason to order one.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:23 PM
Sep 2023

You gotta have a reason to order stuff like that, the judge would have no basis.

Plus, a judge implying that a defendant is crazy could be enough to overturn the case on appeal.

tinrobot

(10,929 posts)
35. If the judge thinks he's a danger, she has the authority to jail him until trial.
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 06:36 PM
Sep 2023

No psych tests are needed for that.

Nasruddin

(757 posts)
28. the end of mental health
Sun Sep 24, 2023, 05:43 PM
Sep 2023

"[If] he dies in a facility for the criminally insane" or even if he's placed in one, it might
destroy medical mental health practice in the US, like what is happening to vaccination / mask
wearing & other public health practice. His rabid fans are not the majority, but numerous enough
to create a huge backlash, manipulate a weak both-sidezing press, & generate a lot of
doubt.

I'd much rather he lived out his 120 year life span in ADX Florence.
The believers in his martyrdom, then, can light a candle on his birthday and appeal to the Vatican
for canonization, everybody else will have forgotten.

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