Bush team considers Dean formidable Republicans admit they underestimated…

[w4rma]

Bush team considers Dean formidable Republicans admit they underestimated Dem candidate

By Judy Keen
USA TODAY

WASHINGTON -- Republican Party officials and political advisers to President Bush admit that they underestimated Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean and say they now consider him a formidable potential adversary.

Some Bush allies say he reminds them of another insurgent candidate who once bedeviled Bush: Arizona Sen. John McCain. His wins in Republican primary elections in New Hampshire and Michigan rattled Bush's 2000 campaign.

''There is something going on there, and I tell you, if we don't pay attention . . . we're making a big mistake,'' says Tom Rath, a Republican strategist and Bush adviser in New Hampshire.
…
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030908/5477666s.htm

[keopeli]

1. Who gives a rat's *## what the Bush team thinks of Dean...really...

...and furthermore, who can believe it?

[wryter2000]

3. I think they're lowering expectations

Oh, Dean is so formidable :scared: If our candidate looks like a smirking chimp, it's only to be expected. No wonder Bush* got tongue-tied and didn't make any sense...he was so :scared: of Dean.

Doesn't matter because an empty pillowcase could beat Whistle Ass in 2004.

[ablbodyed]

51. 2004

Those Repub thugs can't afford to lose. They need to control the access to info on 9/11 and Iraq. They revealed their ploy when they refused to release Pappy's prez papers. WAY TOO MUCH TROUBLE FROM THAT. And what this crew has done is exponentially worse. They will never give up power: there'll be a coup in the name of national security. Overstatement, I PRAY THAT I'M NUTS.

[0007]

28. You got it Toyota

The folks in Midland Texas are starting to bitch about junior . LOL!

[sendero]

2. if they are smart...

... they will pay attention to the fact that the large number of Americans who are fed to the gills with Bush*, his lies and incompetence are the reason Dean has done so well.

But then again, if they were *smart*, they'd have never allowed that pretender to get the nomination anyway :)

[Gin]

4. I don't trust them one bit....and don't give a rats ass what they

think about anything....I am over these clowns...and over being run over...look out you thugs...we are coming back!

[E_Zapata]

5. Just trying to scare the core repub base to give more money...

just a continuance of the campaign to make bush look like an underdog to get more pukes to give more money to bush. "oh nooooooo, we might lose!"

[CounterCoulter]

13. IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!!!

The Republicans WELCOME making the 2004 election a debate on the war. Is it a fool proof issue? No, but it is certainly better than talking about the economy from Bush's POV.

From DAY ONE of Dean's candidacy, Republicans have hoped he would get the nomination or atleast make the campaign about war. Kerry is much more liberal on the economy than Howard Dean. If you think about it, Dean is the PERFECT candidate for Repubs to run against Bush: Bush Lite on the economy and "soft on war."

The democratic party is committing suicide if they don't make this campaign about an issue that is going to get poor voters to the polls--and war ain't that issue. Fuck the Greens--the Democratic party needs the working class and working poor MUCH more than it needs a bunch of angry yuppies. It is unfortunate how the yuppies can't cut through the crap and see how a Dem would benefit them like the religious Right did with Bush...

[proud patriot]

6. ummmm guess Rath didn't get the memo from Rove

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ! :evilgrin:

[Nottingham]

7. I just pray Dean stays Healthy and has No Skeletons pop out

You Know the Republicans are gonna go at him now!

I was kinda hopin it would be after the Nomination!

[Demobrat]

11. No such luck.

I'm not worried about skeletons so much as I am worried that they'll make up some bullshit and spend hundreds of millions to shove it down the public's throat. Of course they'll try, and it will be up to the Dean team to fight it. I have a feeling they'll be up to it though. I love Gore, but that southern gentleman thing did him in. Now we have a street fighter, which means we have a chance.

edit for typo

[caledesi]

25. Yup, Dean is a streefighter...something new from a Dem.

[dolstein]

35. New for a Democrat? What about Clinton?

Gee, I think James Carville would be awfully amused to learn that the 1992 campaign was staffed with a bunch of milquetoasts and pantywaists.

[Nicholas_J]

12. Problem is

Dean is the candidate with the least know about him, as well a the candidate who worked more with REPUBLICANS as governor than Democrats. Dean was not well loved by most democrats in Vermont, and Republicans made many political jokes about Vermont Dems calling Dean a "Republican in Drag" while he was governor.

If their IS anything "EMBARASSING" in Deans sealed gubernatorial records, it is going to be more likely that REpublicans will be aware of it, and not democrats.

This simply seems to be more Republican manuvering to get the democrats to nominate the candidate they feel that they can most easily beat.

Rule ! in Dealing with Republicans....always suptect whatbthey are saying, and look somewhere in the opposite direction for the truth.

[clar]

17. Dean may not have been

well loved by most democrats, but he was well liked and respected by them. You must be sick of hearing from this liberal Vt. democrat. But you keep making broad statements like this, rooted in nothing but your own loathing for Dean, so I'll keep refuting you. I worked in Montpelier for most of the 11 years Dean was Governor, and a lot is known about Dean. I'd be shocked if the Repubs are able to dig up any thing major on him. BTW, the state's been swarming with people trying to dig up dirt on Dean, both dem and repub operatives. According to folks I know who work in certain offices, they've been disappointed.

[twilight]

20. no lie here

<Dean was not well loved by most democrats in Vermont, and Republicans made many political jokes about Vermont Dems calling Dean a "Republican in Drag" while he was governor.>

Boy you got this one right. I ran into a man the other day from Vermont and he had a "service dog" with him. I asked him why he had the service dog and he told me that he suffers from severe seizures and that the dog senses them about 1 hour before they occur and he has time to prepare himself.

I then asked him where he was from and he said, "Vermont". I asked him then, "What to you think about Gov. Howard Dean?" He did not reply, he only shook his head back and forth as to say NO. That sort of told me what kind of man this might be.

I then asked him, "Are you receiving disability." He replied, "Sort of ....". SORT OF! GIMME A BREAK!!! WHO THE HELL IS THIS DOCTOR ANYWAY!?

:kick:

[Pastiche423]

32. Facts are stubborn things

(Just heard Senator Harkin say that, and it is so true.)

Fact:

Seizure dogs can sometimes tell when a person is going to have a seizure a few minutes before it happens.

Fact:

It is up to the Federal Government to decide if someone qualifies for disability, not a governor.

"He did not reply, he only shook his head back and forth as to say NO. That sort of told me what kind of man this might be.

A man shakes his head and that tells you what about what kind of man this might be?

If you want to make a point, put some facts behind it. Ya know, those stubborn things.

P.S. If you truly want the facts about Governor Dean's disability rights platform , you will find them here:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_disabilityrights

[BadGimp]

29. re the Rule:

"Rule! in Dealing with Republicans....always supect what they are saying, and look somewhere in the opposite direction for the truth."

So at this point they have taken both sides of the debate - both sides equeally opposing each other.

Well where are we to look now?

Interesting to me that this comes at the same time the entire GOP/Rovian machine is backpeddaling on the Iraq/UN issue and Bush is forced to come clean on the projected costs (more clean that is).

I agree btw with the basic premise of your recommendation: "look somewhere in the opposite direction for the truth", as a general rule.

[blm]

8. That's their NEW tact?

You think they'd be HONEST????

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

[stickdog]

45. Rove was honest before when he said he wanted to go against Dean.

Now, the Republicans quoted in this article are certainly lying.

It's all so obvious if you are a hardcore Kerry supporter.

[Demobrat]

9. There is definately "something going on out there".

All of us who watched appalled as our democracy was undermined, NY was attacked and the attack was used as an excuse to take us to war with somebody who had nothing to do with it have found somebody to speak for us. And there's a hell of a lot more of us than they thought.

[maxanne]

10. in denial

He clearly is leading the pack among the Democrats because he's the most articulate person leading the charge of pessimism and protest,'' says state Sen. Chuck Larson, chairman of the Iowa GOP. ''But he's dragging the entire party to the left, away from the mainstream. . . . He is very out of step.

That's the kind of denial these folks are in. The Repubes have swung so far to the right, they don't know the center when they see it any more. We know who is out of step - and it ain't Howard Dean. This will be the repeated mantra, though. Just like the "liberal media" and "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and Saddam/September 11 - they will say this over and over again in an effort to make it true.

[regnaD kciN]

14. They may have underestimated Dean...

...but did they misunderestimate him?

;-)

If they're comparing him to McCain, watch out...mudslinging dead ahead, captain!

[IndianaGreen]

18. They were wrong about WMD and Iraq

They have been wrong about everything they have done since January 20, 2001. What else is new?

I think they are panicking, particularly since not a single vote has yet been cast in a primary or caucus.

[maggrwaggr]

33. they may have underestimated the American People!!!

That's the bottom line.

We're PISSED OFF, we fucking HATE THEM and they're just starting to realize it.

BRING 'EM ON!

[Gman]

15. Yes to all of the above

[hackwriter]

16. And they'll try to smear him the way they did McCain

Remember that? Remember the rumors that McCain's Bangladeshi daughter was actually the product of a liaison with a black prostitute? That's the kind of tactics the Dean campaign has to look forward to.

[Frances]

19. The Republicans will paint Dean

as too liberal.

But what I like about Dean is that he turns such accusations to his advantage.

I can't remember his exact words, but he said something like "If being a liberal means balancing the budget then I'm a liberal."

That's the kind of talk that some people in red states will listen to.

[BiggJawn]

49. But Dean wasn't a POW in Hanoi...

So Rove can't threaten to tell everyone he went nutso in the Hanoi Hilton if he doesn't drop out like he did to McCain....

[onehandle]

21. General Rove is scared of any D opponent at this point...

They should consider themselves lucky that they don't have opposition within their own party. Blood is in the water and Bush is chum.

[caledesi]

26. Bush is chum....Oh, yeah!

[Nottingham]

22. I think By far a Independant Democrat is way Scary for Repubs

That means the Iraq war is all on the table for Bush to debate
and then this 87 Billion added to the Biggest Deficit

and the economy??

Ya Dean is scary for the Repubs

and the DLC better wake up too!

[rexcat]

23. The repugs are already starting to vilify Dean...

I read the article in the USA Today "Bush team considers Dean formidable" by Judy Keen, 09/08/2003, page 13A. Repugs were calling Dean too liberal to win an election. Another quote from the article stated "...Dean looks like a hot candidate because the rest of the Democratic candidates are to weak to dominate the race...".

What a buunch of bull!

[twilight]

24. bull indeed

I think Kerry has a strong chance as do I think others in the race. HD is NOT the ONLY candidate you know!

Actually, most of the others running have a lot more experience than HD does, and that includes DK!

:kick:

[rexcat]

27. The article was so biased against the Democrats...

I was thoroughly aggravated after reading it.

Early on I was supporting Kerry but of late Dean has perked my interest. It should be a good race to the primaries. I do get sick and tired of the repugs declaring anyone who disagrees with them “liberals” and not worth the breath to discuss the issues. Their code words get really old after a while. It would have been nice of the reporter to ask the repugs what makes Dean a liberal and what about the liberal agenda they dislike.

If I am not mistaken our country was formed by liberal leaning individuals (Jefferson, Franklin, et al) and the conservatives of the time were the Tories. I could imagine where the right-wing extremists like Bush, Cheney and Ashcroft would stand 227 years ago. To quote Joe Conason from his book "The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth Big Lies," Saint Martin’s Press 2003: “Americans believe in fairness, equality, opportunity, and compassion; they reject social Darwinism and excessive privilege.” Sounds like some good liberal ideas to me. I can’t imagine conservatives leading the charge on these ideas.

[Hawkeye-X]

30. Yes????

OK. I'll concede that DK was once mayor of a metropolitan city.

But...

Does any of the Dem candidates OTHER than Graham have experience in governing the states?

Howard Dean and Bob Graham does.

Chimp does, and look what happened to the state of Texas. It's a fucking quagmire. Even I hated Dallas while I was visiting there in 2000.

Howard Dean has balanced the budget, cut the taxes in Vermont, and has generated lots of 'rainy day' funds to be in use in Vermont. Now they have a Repuke governor, and probably gave away the 'rainy day' funds. Vermont was producing a surplus while Dean was governor. He also created plenty of jobs when he got IBM to sign on to open an facility in Vermont. A friend of mine was a part of Vermont's IBM before he was laid off last year.

Did Graham do this? I don't think so.

Did Kerry do this? Definetely not.

Did Kucinich do this while he was a mayor of Cleveland? I don't think so.

Did Edwards do this while he was a lawyer. Hell no.

I trust Howard Dean to fix what's wrong with America. He will cure America from its ills, and it's time to stand up for Dean!

Hawkeye-X

[rexcat]

38. Well said!

[KaraokeKarlton]

54. Kucinich has 20 years of experience in politics?

Kerry and Kucinich have executive experience as the governor of a state? Senators and Congressment DON'T get elected president. Governors DO.

[CounterCoulter]

31. Do you people think the right is stupid?

No, they are just manipulating you again. The Republicans WELCOME making the 2004 election a debate on the war. Is it a fool proof issue? No, but it is certainly better than talking about the economy from Bush's POV.

From DAY ONE of Dean's candidacy, Republicans have hoped he would get the nomination or atleast make the campaign about war. Kerry is much more liberal on the economy than Howard Dean. If you think about it, Dean is the PERFECT candidate for Repubs to run against Bush: Bush Lite on the economy and "soft on war."

The democratic party is committing suicide if they don't make this campaign about an issue that is going to get poor voters to the polls--and war ain't that issue. Fuck the Greens--the Democratic party needs the working class and working poor MUCH more than it needs a bunch of angry yuppies. It is unfortunate how the yuppies can't cut through the crap and see how a Dem would benefit them like the religious Right did with Bush...

[maggrwaggr]

34. I respectfully disagree. I think they ARE stupid

I think they firmly believe they can just control the propaganda and the spin and the American people will do whatever the hell they want them to do.

It's worked for them so far, but we're wising up to them.

I am a perfect example. So are probably half the people at DU.

How many of us kinda sorta supported Bush RIGHT AFTER 9/11? How many of us thought "man, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. He's got a tough job right now."

I did, and I pretty much hated him then! I thought he was a joke.

[CounterCoulter]

36. If they are stupid, then what does that make us.

They've had us by the balls since the impeachment, yet they are "stupid."

If they are stupid, I want to be as stupid as they are...

[maggrwaggr]

37. evil is always crafty and cunning short term, stupid long term

Look what happened to all the evildoers in the world. Hitler. Mussolini.

They all met with a nasty abrupt end.

Evil people take over because people don't think anyone could actually be THAT evil! Most evil people aren't taken seriously at first. They're laughed at .

Then they take over, everyone is shocked, everyone fights back and the evil people end up hanging from a lampost or burned up in a bunker.

Which I hope is what happens to these guys. I just hope they don't do any more damage than they already have before it's over for them

[osaMABUSh]

53. Yes, on 9/11/01 I felt sorry for * . Imagine that.

Now we all realize that 9/11 was the best thing that could have happened to potentially assure his "re-election".

But, like everything else, he squandered that. And I strongly believe, and I've been saying for 18 months now the Geroge W Bush will go down as THE WORST PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

[wabeewoman]

39. Yes, I do....

"Dean is the PERFECT candidate for Repubs to run against Bush: Bush Lite on the economy and "soft on war."
Obviously you don't know Dean and are just believing (or spreading) repug propaganda.

"The democratic party is committing suicide if they don't make this campaign about an issue that is going to get poor voters to the polls--and war ain't that issue"
Again, I say you don't know much about Dean. He is not a one issue candidate like the repugs are trying to portray him. This election WILL be about the economy and bush cannot and does not know how to fix it. So the repugs thought it would be great to talk about the war when they figured they could strut around and talk about victory. Now, they don't even have that.

What we need is someone with integrity that says what he thinks, isn't owned by corporate America, can make a speech without a teleprompter, fires up the democrats and gives people hope (instead of fear) . What we need is any democrat but Dean will do for me, thanks!
edit: typo

[CounterCoulter]

40. The Repubs didn't suffer when...

McGovern did this--and that is exactly what name they'll call Dean.

By October 2004, the ECONOMY is going to be the issue. We need a LIBERAL not a Bush Lite on that issue.

[strauss_sucks]

41. Right on the money

As much as I'd love to see Dean take the nomination and win, you have to be extremely cautious of the Repubs coming out in public saying anything positive about a Dem. That's a major red flag. They want the Dems to rally around these comments just like we're doing right now. It's a tactic on their end, not the truth.

They definitely want Dean to get the nod. Rove said that much earlier in the year. The more "liberal" and popular the candidate the better for them. They will be able to lock up the terrified soccer-mom and angry under-educated white-man vote without even trying.

Go anyone but Bush!

[diplomats]

42. This whole thing smells Rovian to me

[denverbill]

44. Oh baloney.

For 6 months they've been saying "Yeah, we WANT to run against Dean because he's a left-wing liberal like McGovern". And the DLC and others spouted that line about how Dean was too liberal. Now, the Pukies say they are scared of Dean and we've got Democrats saying "That means we shouldn't run Dean because they must be lying."

Jesus, I don't give a shit what Rove or the DLC thinks of Dean. Dean beats the shit out of Bush and Lieberman, and connects with people better than Gore ever did.

If Bushco has any brains, they ARE afraid of Dean. Polls show only 1/3 of Democrats can name ANY of the candidates, and Dean is pulling in $1 million a month from ordinary people. Dean is tapping into the undercurrent of anger at the entire US political system, and that tap could turn into a gusher that would blow the Republicans and the DLC back to the back benches.

[strauss_sucks]

58. Remember 1988 and a Gov. named Dukakis?

Lee Atwater had a blast labeling him "liberal", and it worked very effectively. And a $1 mil/month ain't jack. Hell, we'd be lucky if $10M/mo would even do it. We've got to sell a candidate to the undecided, not the DU'ers.

[Julien Sorel]

43. They are so wounded now that anyone presents

a credible challenge. At one point, Dean was going to be so weak they expected to stomp him; now it is Bush who is weak. But polls and common sense say Dean is their best chance of getting elected from the people likely to get the nomination. What's changed isn't Dean, but Bush's position. Notice the guy said 'we're making a big mistake,' in other words, still looking at Dean as more chump than challenger.

[stickdog]

48. Dean also has the biggest unknown percentage of any of the

candidates likely to get the nomination.

When Dean finally get the chance to go up head to head with boy howdy, the difference will be ludicrously striking.

Dean helps Democrats with white males and independent voters. Meanwhile, he's also convinced a huge base of hardcore activists to work for him a full 16 months before the election.

[roguevalley]

46. lord, I suppose this means phone campaigns about

him fathering children out of wedlock and other repug crap. :(

[denverbill]

47. How do Republicans know where Dean is spending money?

How worried is the Bush team? One campaign official notes that Dean is renting lots of cars in Iowa — evidence that Bush supporters in the state are keeping an eye on him and his campaign spending.

How do they know Dean is renting cars in Iowa? Are they pulling credit card files or something?

[Bandit]

50. "Something is going on but you don't know what it is, Do you Mr. Jones?"

B. Dylan and it's even more apt today than thirty-five years ago.

[osaMABUSh]

52. It's way too early but perhaps any Dem nominee could beat *

Recent poll numbers are hitting lows for *'s Presidency and have bascially been trending this way since 9/11 (except for the Iraq War bump). In fact, except for these two anomolies, *'s numbers would have always near 50 or less.

Now if the trending continues through next year (except for the convention historic bump) we might see a point where whomever gets the nomination will beat Shrub.

[SaveABug]

55. Don't trust one fucking word these people say

If they say they are against something, it is because they are looking forward to something. Then again, they could be playing the old reverse - fuck up the mind - thing. Evil. Nothing is as it seems.

[goforit]

56. Hmmmm..........They forgot how Bush beat McCain........

He stole the whole friggin thing!

[Lindacooks]

57. Just stay out of small planes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The more time that elapses since Senator Wellstone's tragic death, the more convinced I am that the BFEE had something to do with it. Remember, the balance of the Senate was at stake, and these people will do ANYTHING to get and retain power.

[jbm]

59. somethings up...

I heard Rush today..involuntarily..but in a way I'm glad I caught his show. He set up this whole thing about how he needed to warn his listeners that Deanites were infiltrating his show,and that the way they could tell the Deanites from the 'real' callers was that they were always polite,began their convo with a compliment,and then proceeded to ask thoughtful,reasonable questions. He said he welcomed these callers and wanted to encourage them to keep calling so that he could understand their side of the issue,and maybe he would have an opportunity to present his side of things. A few minutes later a Dean caller was on,and Rush was very warm and friendly. These guys are up to something..and my guess is that the repubs have decided that Dean is their preferred candidate to go against Bush...so they're helping him.

Please don't think I'm criticizing Dean,I'm not. I'm just saying something is fishy about the way the repubs are behaving...