Sen Kerry Won't Support White House Iraq Funding Request

[Nambe]

WASHINGTON (AP)

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said Monday he wouldn't support U.S. President George W. Bush's $87 billion request for Iraq and Afghanistan without a dramatic shift in White House policies.

"I'm not going to vote for an open-ended ticket," Kerry told The Associated Press. He said Bush should get more foreign troops into Iraq and use oil revenues to help pay for reconstruction before U.S. taxpayers are forced to foot the bill. Kerry said the U.S. can't abandon the Persian Gulf nation.

In a wide-ranging interview, the Massachusetts senator said Democratic rival Howard Dean, a former governor of Vermont, lacks foreign policy experience in a post-Sept. 11 period that demands it.

"We've seen governors come to Washington who don't have the experience with Washington and they get in trouble real fast. And they don't have the experience in foreign policy, and they get in trouble pretty fast," Kerry said. "Look at Ronald Reagan. Look at Jimmy Carter and now, obviously, George Bush." ---

Banish bush From Texas Too

[Khephra]

1. Using Bush to also comment on Dean?

Sniff..sniff...

Smells like Lieberman's tactics to me.

[blm]

3. Why is it OK for Deanies to argue that only

governors who have "executive experience" can win the presidency and point to Bush, et al as a reason why Kerry cannot win?

Shouldn't it be fair then to note that Dean doesn't have any foreign policy experience and point to Bush?

[Khephra]

6. Hey, it's fair

And it's fair that I think it sucks as a tactic.

[Sean Reynolds]

7. No.

Because last I checked we are not sending a message that the Republicans can use AGAINST Dean if he wins the nomination. Yes I do agree Kerry has more foreign policy experience, but Dean has experience in running a state, balancing its budget, and providing health care for close to 100% of all of its children. I guess he could make that an issue too, right? Find it odd that Kerry talks about Carter, Reagan, Dubya - yet leaves out ANOTHER governor that was president for 8 years.....yeah, I'm talking about Clinton.

[Khephra]

8. Great points, and I stand corrected

It isn't fair...leaving out Clinton is as slippery as they come. It's called the sin of omission.

Either Kerry forgot about Clinton (which makes me worry about his memory...I have a good excuse for not having one) or he purposefully left out Clinton so he could bash Dean and Bush at the same time.

I knew I really disliked this new attack on Dean, but I couldn't quite figure it out. I'm starting to really hate it now that I'm thinking more on it.

[mth44sc]

21. Well lets get real

Even Bill struggled for the first year +. I happen to agree - this is no time for beginners. Your milage may vary.

[Sean Reynolds]

31. But it is time for someone that isn't so bogged from the inside.

Dean is fresh, Dean is anti-Washington. We need someone that doesn't cater to the establishment, but someone that caters to the PEOPLE. Dean brings that to the board.

[mth44sc]

37. Reagan was anti insider too

I want someone who has the skills and maturity to get the job done. You want to lead a movement. I want to get things moving.

[Sean Reynolds]

39. And Republicans LOVE Reagan.

Your point?

We've had too much political rhetoric for the past 30 years, it's time we get some fresh air in Washington DC!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

51. Fresh air, hmm. Congress is a minefield that one must dance carefully.

The idea of a 'fresh air' candidate who might be uncorrupted, unco-opted and unentangled in DC is a nice idea but, to be effective in Congress and accomplish anything requires knowing the political terrain, the players and their personalities. This is a huge database to acquire and there ain't time on this boat-on-fire to do puppy-training at the dog-eat-dog DC environment. We need a seasoned veteran with a conscience, like...Kerry.

[sangh0]

52. "Fresh air" is useless in DC

and it was one of the most corrupt and ambitious Congressmen (I mean LBJ) who passed the most important civil rights legislation after decades of fighting it. Saints can save your soul, but they don't get to vote in Congress,

[blm]

26. So, you DO want to have it both ways.

Deanies can say, "...but Dean has experience in running a state, balancing its budget..." as a talking point for why they think Kerry can't be a strong nominee, and yet, Kerry can't use foreign policy as why Dean will not be a strong nominee.

No governor went into office with the world in THIS HUGE OF A DANGEROUS MESS. Not even during the Cold War.

[Sean Reynolds]

32. BUT one did take us out of a big, dangerous mess.

It was called the Great Depression. Also he essentially won WWII. I'm talking about former New York GOVERNOR, Franklin D. Roosevelt.

[sangh0]

53. FDR was also Asst Sec'y of the Navy

His resume was a bit stronger than most Governors.

[meisje]

33. who gives a rats ass

the only one I will not vote for is bushlite

[Sean Reynolds]

2. Again the whole 'Dean lacks foreign policy'.

Kerry, get a new bit, it aint working!

What pisses me off is now the Republicans have a bit to use IF DEAN gets the nod and runs against Bush.

[styersc]

9. Somehow you believe that if Kerry had not said it that

it would not be true. Kerry is making his case to voters in the Dem primary why he would be a better candidate. You can't blame him for stating what the GOP will be saying if Dean does get the nod.

[Sean Reynolds]

10. look at my post above.......

And there are better ways of making yourself out to be the better candidate than attacking the other guy 24/7.

[ModerateMiddle]

43. 24/7?

Are you that incapable of hearing the things that Kerry is saying that have NOTHING to do with Howard Dean? If anyone's obsessed, I would suggest it ain't Kerry.

[Sean Reynolds]

45. BS. Seems every press release is filled with subtle to very open bashes

....about Dean. Prime example is this post. Topic has nothing to do with Howard Dean - yet he finds reason to bash him.

[sangh0]

54. So how does it feel

when your candidate is at the receiving end of what he's been dishiing out?

If you're so worried about how one candidate's attacks might affect the general election, why weren't you complaining when Dean mischaracterized ALL of the Democrats as Bush*-lite war supporters?

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Dean may not have foreign policy experience, but

he had enough sense to oppose the war from the beginning, which is more than can be said for any elegantly-coiffed Bonesmen who might happen to be running for President.

[ModerateMiddle]

42. Oh, man, you REALLY think

that the Republicans didn't plan on using this against Dean if he ended up the Dem nominee? That's priceless.

And he doesn't have to get a new bit. Frankly, this one IS working, and it's going to resonate with Americans. That and tone. The early participants in the invisible primary were all Bush haters, and Dean's anger resonated.

As this process gains folks interest, that's not going to be the prevailing view.

[clar]

4. Well, I'm glad

Good for the Senator. And as a Dean supporter, I'm OK with his attacks. I think they're within the realm of what's acceptable.

[Journeyman]

5. Interesting that he skipped Bill Clinton. . .

I wonder why.

[ModerateMiddle]

44. Cuz he wants Clintonian support

Not directly from Clinton, but from folks who really miss the Big Dog.

[ozone_man]

57. Because he is a hypocrate.

He wouldn't be able to use this attack, if he mentioned Clinton.

[Rose Siding]

11. Bashing Carter along with Bush?

That's low down. Nobel Peace prizes just don't buy as much respect as they used to.

Too bad it took so long for him to realize that it's not a good idea to give GeeDub "an open ended ticket".

[Khephra]

14. It's the Kerry Trifecta.

Why just bash Bush when you can bash your Democratic opponent and a past elder Democratic Statesman at the same time?

(See, we Deanies can do it too...I used Bush to bash Kerry. Fair is fair after all.)

[blm]

29. You read it wrong.

But, I doubt that will effect what anyone thinks.

[Khephra]

35. Let's compare the two, shall we? Kerry invited it upon himself

Bush "trifecta statement" -- a 3 part statement that is totally false and the speaker knows it as such, issued to gain support from his base and gain him support in the polls.

Kerry's "Trifecta" (as I'm calling it) statement -- a 3 part bash that is totally false and the speaker knows it as such, issued to gain support from his base and gain him points in the polls.

Not a 100% match, but this statement by Kerry shows us all that he's willing to fudge the facts and leave facts out to come out ahead of others. Admirable trait that. Can the "Kerry can do no wrong" BS stop now?

[frank frankly]

12. Why doesn't Kerry just say NO MORE CONTRACTS TO HALLIBURTON!?!?

First, I am glad to hear Kerry attacking Bush. I think he should really press the Senate Floor this fall to prove who he really is. Say Halliburton in every speech, Senator Kerry, and I might vote for you...

although my final choice with Kerry is 100% Skull & Bones. he needs to talk about it, fast.

[Dover]

13. He is criticizing Jimmy Carter? Would Carter have signed the

war resolution? Doubt it! And Carter has proven himself on the world stage as an invaluable asset, a top notch negotiator and diplomat.

[joeybee12]

15. Fuck Kerry!

Is he taking his playbook from Holy Joe or Rove? It would have been nice of him to withold support a while back--like his unconsciousable vote in October!

To think I once supported this bastard for the presidency.

[styersc]

17. To think you were once right.

Getting the wrong answer on an exam is always a bummer. It's even a bigger bummer if you erase the correct answer to write a wrong answer.

You were right when you supported Kerry.

[Cha]

23. Not in joeybee's opinion!

And I'm sure ..to him that is what matters the most!

[blm]

28. As a new president, Carter had a difficult time early on

in his foreign policy endeavors, mostly because he was an outsider who had no real infrastructure to work within the first couple years.

This world situation requires someone who can hit the ground running.

[Khephra]

36. Sorry, BLM, but you and Kerry aren't talking about the same thing

"We've seen governors come to Washington who don't have the experience with Washington and they get in trouble real fast. And they don't have the experience in foreign policy, and they get in trouble pretty fast,"

EXPERIENCE. There's not one word about not having an infrastructure, and even stretching "experience" as far as you can there's no doubt that you and him are talking two different things.

[Khephra]

38. Oh, and if you still think having an infrastructure has some connection

to experience...



"Infrastructure:

1- An underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.

2- The basic facilities, services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons."

Then Dean would have the most experience with camapaigning over all the other candidates since he's obviously the one with the best campaign infrastructure, right?

And if Dean has the most experience, because he has the best campaign infrastructure, then...

:evilgrin:

[blm]

48. Experience with Congress, kephra, added

to the lack of experience on foreign policy. It does make it more difficult, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

[tsipple]

16. With All That Foreign Policy Experience...

...Kerry still voted for the Iraq resolution while Dean opposed same. Kerry also voted against the first Gulf War while Dean supported it.

Since Kerry invited the comparison, it looks like Dean got at least two big ones (the biggest?) right that Kerry didn't.

[Jacobin]

27. Nailed it.

An obvious conclusion that blows his little canard about Dean.

Dean could figure it out but Kerry was too chicken to stand up to what he knew was right. Alternatively, he was too stupid to figure out what was going on and doesn't belong in government.

[phiddle]

18. Kerry should NOT have left out Clinton.

The years '93-94 were a disaster for Clinton: the gays in the military fiasco (while it was the right policy, it was a PR disaster), Somalia (a stink bomb left by Bush Sr.), the crashing of the health care plan, etc., and these led directly to the Gingrich takeover of '94.
That said, I (a Dean supporter) concede Kerry's point---any governor is going to have a tough time in Washington at first, with foreign policy being especialy treacherous. However, given that only one person (Kennedy) in the last century has gone to the presidency directly from the Senate, we don't have enough of a sample to even guess what the liabilities of a Senator would be.
Bottom line for me: Yeah, Mr. Kerry, but so what?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. good..i'm glad to hear this

[dusty64]

22. This is a surprise.

x

[FlemingsGhost]

24. The time to be making a stand on Iraq, Senator Kerry...

was before the illegal occupation started.

Just think, you could be saying "I told you so," and likely be THE frontrunner for your Party's nomination.

Instead, we get to watch your candidacy go down in flames.

[joeybee12]

25. Absolutely right, that vote cost him the nomination

Even if Dean falters, someone else will get the nomination. If Kerry had voted against it, he would have taken heat for a while, but people would have seen him as a man of principle. Now he looks just like a politician who weighs the political benefits of each vote, not taking into account whether its the right thing to do.

[goforit]

30. Nice of you Sen.K...........but don't poo-poo ordinary people just because

they don't live and work in the most pompus and arrogant
City in the world.

Your experience in DC doesn't mean squat when your vote
to give the village idiot "all" power than any branch of Gov't
and your vote that put our men and women's lives at stake in
the Iraq and Afgan war.

Your resume doesn't look good patting old georgie on the back.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Kerry is growing political balls

and I, for one, will not criticize him for it.

[Skittles]

41. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

IG, you of all people using that tired old sexist BALLS reference? STOP THAT.

[Voltaire99]

65. A bit overdue, but welcome

Sexist? Kerry is a man, you know.

Anyway, it's high time he led on something. Opposing the Bush Iraq folly is a meritorious position--every Dem, candidate or otherwise, should be out busting Bush on this one.

[laconicsax]

40. What I don't get,

"I'm not going to vote for an open-ended ticket..."

He already voted to give * an open-ended ticket for Iraq, why not another? Buyer's remorse?

[ozone_man]

59. Can't have it both ways. Kerry got us into this mess,

along with Lieberman and the rest of the house of Bush lite cards. He doesn't have a leg to stand on now IMO.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

61. Kerry is not the CiC

Bush pulled the trigger. All Kerry did was help (along with many others) to take the child lock off!

[fob]

46. I am currently ABB, but Kerry just went to the bottom of the short

list, BELOW Lieberman, with an attack on Jimmy Carter! THAT, SIR, IS NOT FUCKING COOL! Especially not in the same breath with raygoon and busn*!

[Sagan]

47. This is a GOOD thing, folks...

Yes, I know Kerry voted for Iraq. But does that mean that we now want him to always vote for what Chimpy wants? Don't be absurd.

I'm GLAD Kerry is doing this. I applaud him for it, as should all of us here.

Just because Kerry isn't your guy, doesn't mean you should automatically hate whatever he does. He's a Democrat, for chrissakes. Look at the big picture.

[sangh0]

55. Yes, it is

but the "purer than thou" folks will complain even when the candidates do what they want them to do. The PTT folks put "we told you so" above helping others.

[twilight]

49. good for you John Kerry!

I am glad to know that you do not plan to support this and I think you have PLENTY of experience!

:kick:

[CWebster]

50. He will

after posturing with the usual self-righteous pomp and circumstance.

[dave29]

56. I like Kerry, but he voted to give Bush authority

and now he wants us to believe Dean would be far worse on foreign policy. Dean has shown nothing but leadership on this issue from day one. Not a good line of attack - and Kerry proves it's just political by not mentioning Clinton.

Any of our guys will be better on foreign policy - including Dean, who has said himself he recognizes many governors come into Washington with little foreign policy experience. He plans to have an insider and someone strong on foreign policy as his VP.

Again, Dean shows leadership and the others waffle.

[THUNDER HANDS]

58. Waaaah, Waaaaaaaaaah, Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

...Stop picking on my candidate...

...You can't say mean things because republicans will use them...

...Play nice...

Give me a break people. It's the primary season. Candidates are going to go at eachother. Then when it's over, Kerry's arm will be around Dean's and vice versa and they'll kiss and make up.

But stop acting like nobody can say anything critical about Howard Dean. He's the current frontrunner. Dean attacked Kerry early on when he was the frontrunner, and now Kerry is returning the favor.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

60. Geez, I know. Took the bawling right out of my mouth

Deanpers really are fresh out of their diapers.

[DisgustedTX]

62. God forbid we'd stick to the issue - FUNDING. Not Howard f'ing Dean

and to think I thought Kerry's statement was about another $87B unspecified, open-ended appropriation.

Is breathing anti-Dean?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

63. So Kerry made a relevant point about experience

and the Deanpers go wild. Whatever. It's Dean's perogative to respond if he feels the need to.

[DisgustedTX]

64. The article is about another wasted $87B - not other candidates.

- The Dean Underground

[UnapologeticLiberal]

66. Wow. I give Kerry a lot of credit

For being willing to take a stand against this. I thought for sure that all the Democrats running for president and most Democrats in general would just roll over and support this. I am impressed with Kerry for saying he will vote against it.

I wish he would not diss Dean in the process of making this announcement, but who can blame him?