Dollar Falls, Hits Record Low Vs. Euro (broken record "broken record")

[Career Prole]

LONDON (Reuters) - The dollar tumbled to a record low against the euro and a 12-year trough versus sterling on Wednesday as it ran into a fresh wave of selling after consolidating earlier this week.

The dollar, which has lost almost a tenth of its value against a basket of currencies in the past four months, has been rattled by concerns about the U.S. current account gap and speculation Washington is happy to see a weaker dollar.

Markets are looking to U.S. manufacturing data and a speech by a Federal Reserve official due later on Wednesday but the events are seen lending little support to the fragile currency.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=1&u=/nm/20041201/bs_nm/markets_forex_dc

This "new record broken" headline is starting to sound like a broken record, isn't it? (Note to post-vinyl, non-audiophile DUers: music once came on "records", which when scratched or cracked would repeat the same line over and over :))
This was the first ime I'd heard the dollar referred to as a "fragile currency", though.
Shrub has given us so much to be proud of, eh?

[Ironpost]

1. heads up chest out

a fine fella' he is.... no

[The Zanti Regent]

2. $lide, $lide $lide, let it $lide!

Let's see the Presidential Prayer Team get their collective faces $lapped when Je$u$ refuses to intervene for the dollar!

[truthseeker1]

3. "...speculation Washington is happy to see a weaker dollar. "

Why? Why would they like to see a weaker dollar? How does that benefit them?

[Flammable Materials]

5. Silly, the REASON is ...

... so American EXPORTS are more affordable to the global market!

Wait ... you're saying we don't MAKE anything anymore? But ... what about those Internets that Bush keeps talking about? Certainly we've got a few of those lying around we can sell on eBay.

[DBoon]

6. They want to make the US a resource colony

Sell agricultural and mineral products to the rest of the world. Have a plantation economy run by a wealthy elite, with most work done by impoverished indentured servants.

They don't want an educated middle class, they don't want high-tech industries, they certainly don't want unionized mass manufacturing.

A declining dollar makes US timber, food, etc. cheaper abroad, guts our high tech industries, and impoverishes US workers.

See Michael Lind's book Made in Texas.

[truthseeker1]

7. Thanks - I'll check it out (nt)

[Voltaire99]

25. They've seen the future. And it's Chinese.

America won't be able to compete half a century from now with a Chinese superpower whose massive economy will be running on all cylinders.

Rather than tend to our present and future, our elites are going to spend the next few decades conducting a fire sale of the middle class.

[Alisa]

8. They aren't really in charge of the dollar slide, I think

they are just trying to look like they are in control of what's happening. I have believed this for a while. Also, even if we did have anything we manufactured to be exported - do you think the raw materials are going to be cheaper to us? Meaning, how can we sell cheaper, be more competitive, if the raw materials we would need - cost us MORE (a lower $ means it takes more to buy things)?

This is my first post - Hi!

[UpInArms]

10. Welcome to DU Alisa!

:hi:

"They" are responsible for the dollar slide. It is their fiscal policy to create an environment where the dollar sinks against other major currencies.

The immersion of our government in mountains and oceans of debt while looting the treasuries of any resources (giving breaks to the top 1%), considering the outsourcing of jobs "good for the economy", etc (so many things there's just not enough room in the netherworld to hold the list) - just for starters.

[truthseeker1]

12. But why? Why are "they" willing to destory America (or allow it to self

destruct)? Just out of greed? I find that hard to believe.

The only logical conclusion I can come to is they are marching to the beat of a larger authority (world elite/bankers) who want to see America fail. But why? With the resulting domino effect on the global economy, who wins? China? Multi-national corporations?

[UpInArms]

16. (IMHO) the BFEE has no allegiance to this country -

they serve themselves and they seek power - power over people, power over countries - they are the most despicable crew of nasties I have ever witnessed in my life.

They will and have already positioned themselves to be cashing in on the next emerging economy (see Carlyle Groups investments in China)

:shakesheadsadly:

[leesa]

55. Agreed. The NEW thing to us is that these creatures are global. They

have no interest in national boundaries. They intend to have the rich take over the world.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

18. the world bank and the IMF

Have you ever read the "Best Democracy Money Can Buy?" There's a plan I think - and Greg Palast talks about it in the chapter titled "Sell the Lexus and Burn the Olive Tree". Excerpts of it are posted at http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Palast_Greg/Sell_Lexus_TBDMCB.html

Basically, the governments bankrupt the countries - IMF and World Bank step in with the promise of loans. The loans have hundreds of stipulations attached such as privitizations of utilities, breaking up unions, cutting overtime/health coverage/unemployment/pensions to workers - then they sell the utilities off to corporations such as Halliburton, Enron, etc. who then charge astronomical fees which the citizens can't afford.

If you really want to understand why our government hates Chavez so much you should check this out - he's the only one who told the IMF and World Bank to shove it.

(I hope I got this right...just started to follow it)

[truthseeker1]

21. Thanks - just dusted it off and will read that chapter tonight

That is a shocking and scary scenario.

Speaking of Chavez, new CIA documents show Bush knew about the coup beforehand (Bushco was probably directly involved in it too).

[rockedthevoteinMA]

32. Yeah - I read that book the week of the election.

Talk about hard core depression setting in - lol.

This sort of explains some of the Chavez issue and Haiti, and how the Repukes are responsible for it

"But did the rebellion really spring from nowhere? Maybe not. Several leaders of the demonstrations -- some of whom also had links to the armed rebels -- had been getting organizational help and training from a U.S. government-financed organization. The group, the International Republican Institute (IRI), is supposed to focus on nonpartisan, grassroots democratization efforts overseas. But in Haiti and other countries, such as Venezuela and Cambodia, the institute -- which, though not formally affiliated with the GOP, is run by prominent Republicans and staffed by party insiders -- has increasingly sided with groups seeking the overthrow of elected but flawed leaders who are disliked in Washington.

In 2002 and 2003, IRI used funding from the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) to organize numerous political training sessions in the Dominican Republic and Miami for some 600 Haitian leaders. Though IRI’s work is supposed to be nonpartisan -- it is official U.S. policy not to interfere in foreign elections -- a former U.S. diplomat says organizers of the workshops selected only opponents of Aristide and attempted to mold them into a political force."

http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2004/11/11_401.html

[sweetheart]

43. incompetence

The bush administration is incompetent. It has presided over a
litany of stupidity, errors and disasters, all of its own making...
and now that "we"(?) have reelected them, the world is hip to the
game, and by plunging the dollar, is undermining the remaining
econonomic hegemony, to form what most of the rest of the world
sees as reality: "multipolar power" (in contrast to "dollar hegemony")

Who wins when an empire collapses?

A: The forces of change.

The illusion of the USA as some permanent fixture that we've all
grown up with is as impermanent an illusion as the CCCP, the hapsburg
empire, the british empire, the french empire, the japanese empire
and all the others. If you think about it, we've seen in the past
5 decades the collapse of several empires... little documented in
illiterate american-ethnocentric history. The collapse of hapsburg
created the situation for world war 1. The spanish empire collapse
enriched the USA who just took over colonies.... but beneath the
waves, the aristocracy was enriched, and the common folk screwed.

Who benefits? The aristocracy, the borgeousis (sp), the rich who
can prepare and avoid the impact... even prosper from the collapse
by buying up cheap fire-sale assets when things go haywire.

Who loses? statists... the winners are the solipsists who put no
faith in institutions of state and society.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

54. Because the rapture is going to happen soon.

They won't have to deal with it because they'll all be in heaven....or so they think.

[Alisa]

69. Can't be soon enough for me

;-)

[zann725]

13. And raiding Social Security too...don't forget!

n/t :wow:

[UpInArms]

17. yes, that "green light" from the "lucky trifecta"

:puke:

[cliss]

15. Hi, Alisa.

Welcome to the DU!!!:smoke:

And a nice first post, if I might add:toast:

[BeHereNow]

60. Welcome to DU Alisa...question for you

I know this is a strange question...but
did you ever live in Indiana?
The reason I ask is, I knew an Alisa P. there.
My parents were friends with her parents;
both our mothers were pianists, and our fathers
were teachers at the local university.
I just tried to send you a PM, and noticed
you lived in Minneapolis. My sister recently
saw the Alisa P. that we knew in Indiana.
She too, lives in Minneapolis now. (Alisa P. that is)
My sister lives near Dallas now.

You never know, I have met people
on DU that I later found out shared
pasts that connected to mine, so I thought I would ask!

Again,
Welcome to DU!
bhn

[Alisa]

62. BeHereNow, sorry, I'm Alisa B!

and I'm so new at this I don't know how to get or send PM's either.

Sorry to not be the one you hoped for.

Alisa B

[BeHereNow]

63. No need to be sorry!

I realize it was a long shot, but you never know!

I don't think you have enough posts to send or
receive PMs yet- that was the message I got when I
tried to PM you.
I don't know how many you need, but hang around
and you'll get there!
I am enjoying your posts, so again, WELCOME!
BHN

[Alisa]

20. I still say that this "government policy" is more spin management

than anything else. Business has be outsourcing for a few years, for example. Tax breaks to the rich? This is the US where executive's like enron's are sought by corporate interests because they are such creative thinkers. I think the Bush tax changes just reflect the same kind of "I'll get mine" priority that more and more executive's have been choosing rather than adding value to their companies. I have such old fashioned thinking...

Bush, who can't find anything he's done wrong in his management of this country, and his administration aren't the types to
"re-evaluate". They are much more "Rovian" I think. They may have believed, at some point, (some may even today) that they can control this economies fortunes. I've put my money on their failure to accomplish this.

I also think that the world is ready to dump us and Bush and his imperialism has everything to do with it.

[reprobate]

26. Alisa, you have it exactly right. Bush is the cause and under attack.

I believe that the invasion of iraq was the final straw for most of the world. Add to that the Kyosho treaty and the awful fiscal policy of the Gang that Can't Think Straight and then add the destabilizing effect of the Star Wars project (or whatever the hell they call it now) and you have every reason for the rest of the world-particularly europe and china-to have a reason to attack us.

And the world has plenty of other reasons: Napalming woman and children, a weapon that has been banned by all the world except for us, our refusal to sign the land mine treaty also banned by all but us, and the coups in venezuela and haiti.

I believe that the rest of the world has just about given up on armed conflict to settle differences. Only the US sees advantage in that, and the advantage is mainly in profit to corporations that make the arms. So the world has decided to attack us in a much quieter but I think more effective way: to ruin our economy, or more accuratly to let bush ruin our economy and just sit back and watch.

The slide in the dollar is due to reaction to the unparralleled deficits, both consumer and federal.

The other side of the pincer is that they no longer stronly support our bonds.Without this support we will be unable to meet our obligations and the result will be runaway inflaction. That will surely do massive harm to our economy.

In other words, we are at war and we are the only ones that don't realize it. Not a winning position.

[Career Prole]

34. Out of control and they keep hiring more knuckleheads who

can't/won't try to to fix it. BWO has spotted the trend...

Another Vacancy, Another Loyalist?
The remaking of the Bush economic team continues. Stephen Friedman, who heads the National Economic Council, is resigning...

...While Bush had not named a replacement...

...the inside track belongs to Tim Adams, a former top Treasury aide who served as policy director of the President's reelection campaign.

Adams, a low-key policy expert, would fit the recent Bush pattern: choosing long-time loyalists to fill sensitive posts. Adams is unlikely to bring his own agenda to the job.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/bw/20041201/bs_bw/c3911057mz013

Whoever's "driving" the runaway train doesn't care much for dissenting voices, it would appear.

Welcome to DU, Alisa! :hi:

[jsquared]

45. Until now, this administration has succeeded in spinning every disaster

their way. Rove and GWB believe it's all about PR and marketing message, and much of the US public has swallowed it. I don't believe there is any governing and policymaking going on - almost a Potemkin village administration. However, a currency-precipitated economic crisis will be different. It will become too painful to become ignored, as interest rates soar when T-notes fail to sell, housing prices drop, and banks are threatened as their asset base evaporates. It will take a hard lesson for many to see through the deception and incompetence of these guys. I believe that moment has arrived with the currency's continued fall.

[Chicago Democrat]

36. Cheap dollar is good for us...

in several ways...

Makes foreigners pay for our government by makign their t bills worthless in the long run.

Allows people in the know to take advantage speculatively.

Helps US goods competatively on price (we do so make things)

Basically like free money

Rome did for 600 years...

Henry VIII did it....

Revolutionary Frace did it....

Weimar Germany did it...

and now the US will use the print its way out of financial ruin and into INFLATION

So get hard asseted up...Be careful

MAINLY PRESERVE VALUE BY ANY MEANS.

[Dcitizen]

86. because

The surrendered dollar's drop maybe leave trade deficits more vulnerable than inflation fear, and other related impact would be the equity market. They sell BONDs with lesser cost and skip the rest until...:scared:

Here, my equations with 2003 BOE data:

Price:
pi wi + pd wd = Pid (1)
pj wi + pd wd = Pjd (2)
(1)– (2) = (pj – pi) wi (3)
pj = (dj – di) + pi

Inflation:
(2) = Pjd – Pid = (dj-di) wi (4)
(3) = (Pjd – Pid)/Pid = (dj – di) wi / di (5)

Inflation would be the decreased value of dollar in the proportion of imports over the personal consumption. With Imports Weight = 19.5%, estimated affect = 50%+, then

Dollar Estimated Inflation
-20% 1.95%+

[hatrack]

4. Lather, rinse, repeat

:hi:

[xchrom]

9. this is so more people can participate in cheney's

e-bay economy!
everything will be coming up roses when that happens!

[central scrutinizer]

11. we need a new forum

Latest Recurring News with identical headlines but today's date:

Dollar Slides to record low
Violence breaks out in Iraq
US trade deficit grows
US budget deficit hits new record
etc.

[Bullshot]

14. Central Scrutinizer,

Add to your list:

Bush says something stupid.

Bush has a dumb expression during a photo op.

[UpInArms]

19. also, conflict of interest

in *Co administration :eyes:

[RedCon1]

42. The white zone is for loading or unloading

If you can load or unload, go to the white zone. You'll love it there. It's a way of life.

[Voltaire99]

22. On "broken records"

(Note to post-vinyl, non-audiophile DUers: music once came on "records", which when scratched or cracked would repeat the same line over and over:-))

Difference is, today, records are scratched on purpose. ;-)

[mulethree]

23. Ooh 12 year low! George is going to best his dad once again! n/t

[iam]

24. As soon as...

the dollar becomes so worthless that foreigners don't want them, our ENORMOUS deficit/debt will lose it's support. This means an IMMEDIATE 33% cut in our Federal budget and the resulting worldwide economic collapse will give conservatism the excuse it needs to start a nuclear holocaust to bring back Jesus.
I hope my children forgive me for bringing them into this world.

[Bouncy Ball]

27. They must have made considerable changes to that

article after you posted the link. It doesn't resemble too much what is quoted in your post.

Wonder why the change? It doesn't sound as negative now.

Get out the red pen, Bufurd!

[Career Prole]

29. They do it all the time...

What bugs me the most is when they change headlines.
I swear they've got someone there who comes in later and says "That header sounds too pessimistic. Change "Barely Budges" to "Soars"!
Bugs me because there are so many people out there who never read past the headline.

[Art_from_Ark]

They've got a legion of Winston Smiths

who keep busy scrubbing headlines and news stories

[Career Prole]

30. Blast their eyes! They red-penned "fragile currency"!

KKKarl Rove must've called them.

[Bouncy Ball]

31. Yep that was the first thing I noticed!

[Career Prole]

35. "WHAT!?", the editor roared,

"Fragile currency? Why, that's...that's treason!"

I guess it's not officially fragile until next harvest when the migrant workers start demanding to be paid in pesos.

[Bouncy Ball]

41. You're killin me ovah here!

[missouri dem 2]

44. Or when you have to haul a wheelbarrow full of them to McDonalds

to buy a big mac.

[Yavin4]

28. We're Trying To Inflate Our Way Out of Our Debts

The Bushies have no plan whatsoever of ever actually paying off our debts to the rest of the world. Rather, they're attempting to inflate our way out of debt. Countries that buy up our debt are holding worthless pieces of paper.

If countries stop buying our debt, this will give Bush and his neocons the golden opportuniy to destroy all non-military federal spending programs under the guise of austerity.

My guess is that at some point, interest rates, short and medium term, will soar because of the declining dollar, and that will cause our economy to collapse.

[Chicago Democrat]

39. Our economy won't collapse.. here is why..

There will be inflation. That will eventually stem the collapse of the dollar. Everything will go up. People will seem as though they are prosperous but the BIG BIG BIG losers are....

1) Pensioners
2) Social Security Receipients (watch for understated inflation adjustements)
3) Anyone on fixed income......
4) Minimum Wage earners

THe Big BIG BIG winners!!

1) RE owners
2) The Ownership Society
3) smart investors


We will look kindof like Argentina, Brazil etc....cept militaristic with nukes and insane

[Art_from_Ark]

40. "Smart" investors

usually means "lucky" investors.

[MisterP]

48. the IMF recipe for success!

if your hideously wealthy, that is

[Endangered Specie]

33. As I say, its Karma for us making fun of canadian dollars.

[Career Prole]

37. So when the dollar's worth half as much as it was last year

will they raise the minimum wage 10% and expect everyone to thank them? :eyes:

[KDLarsen]

38. Damn, I need to adjust my internal calculator

Up until now I've calculated with 1 dollar = 6½ Danish Kroner, but I just stopped by my bank to see what the latest currency stood at, and was surprised to see that 1 dollar = 5½ Danish Kroner. If it wasn't for the christmas season coming up & a ski trip in February, I'd call up United and book a trip to the US. Heavens knows how much I'd be able to save compared to my last trip there (October 2002 to NY - loved the place).

[NYC]

53. Come next year.

It should be a real bargain for you then.

(And please bring food. By then, I won't be able to afford any. Thanks in advance. :hi: )

[Career Prole]

75. Since we've hijacked Iraq's oilfields maybe we can swing one of

those oil-for-food deals when the sentient countries sanction us.
Otherwise it's likely to get hungry out.

[llmart]

46. I think other countries......

are surreptitiously going to do us in economically to pay us back for the "imperial hubris" of this jackass administration. Americans are so easily fooled as evidenced by the 59 million that voted for Bush that they won't see it coming.

[Career Prole]

47. Osama said he meant to bring down our economy.

When Wall St. opened back up for business shrub thumbed his nose and said, "Step back an' let me show y'all how we crash a economy in Texas!"
Other countries are rubbing their hands with glee, voicing their dismay openly but privately cheering the chimp on...
"Oui/ja/si/da cowboy...you show us!"

[BrightKnight]

51. They are building an iron economic curtain.

Try taking a trip to the UK. Two dollars to the pound and 17.8% VAT on top of that. They are closing the borders with economic policy. Only the wealthy can afford to travel now.

[Career Prole]

57. Well, it wouldn't do at all to have the proletariat

flee the regime en masse, I suppose.
They need their drones. We haven't "gone" on vacation in several years now. We just "stay" on vacation...at home, grateful at least that we don't have to "clock in" for a couple of weeks. :shrug:

[SKKY]

49. I'm moving to Spain in 3 months...

...and oh this is going to suckity suck suck for my quality of life.

[Chicago Democrat]

50. yes big time... anyone who is paid in dollars and lives or works

overseas...

You should demand more.

[SKKY]

72. I wish I could...

...but unfortunately, being in the military, I'm not afforded the luxury of "negotiating" my salary.

[Liberaltarian]

52. this thread should just be pinned to the top of the page...

because it's going to be the same story- day after day after day...

[Bridget Burke]

58. Like those "Large explosion in Baghdad" threads....

Just keep adding posts ...

[54anickel]

56. Sliding all day long...

Last trade 81.31 Change -0.51 (-0.62%)

Settle 81.56 Settle Time 22:36

Open 81.45 Previous Close 81.82

High 81.52 Low 81.28

Last tick: 2004-12-01 23:16:21 ET
30-min delayed quote.


http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DXY0&v=s

[Career Prole]

59. Nice picture. "We've turned a corner..."

"...and there's no turnin' back." --GWB

?s=NYBOT_DXY0&t=f&w=15&a=50&v=d6

[BeHereNow]

61. Just showed this to my husband...

God love him, but he is prone to denial.
I just tried to talk to him about our options,
as I have for the last two years, regarding
the preservation of our assets.
He said, "Well, the market is up...our statement
says we have made money..."
And so I asked him, "If you figure the lesser value
of the dollar, have we actually made money?"
He got frustrated and left for work.
Poor dear. He is really having trouble adjusting
to the fact that the system he trusted all his life
is now non-existent. He keeps thinking things will
get better and that this is all a temporary condition.
bhn

[Alisa]

64. Very much the point - it isn't $ that's important it's wealth

I know that sounds so "Repug" but what I mean is this: dollars that are lowering in "value" buy less so things cost us more. So, a home may rise 20% or the "DOW" may rise 20% but if the value of the dollar has slide 20% at the same time there has been no change in "wealth" at all.

The US dollar is a "fiat" currency:
Thomas Jefferson is reputed to have said that, “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Looks like we are well along this path today. Maintaining "wealth" in inflationary times is really a challenge. Some of the things I am doing regarding this: buying gold, silver, property outside the US (Canada), investing in gold/metal mining stocks etc. I have bought "puts" against the S&P 500, I have commodity options. I am betting against the US fiat currency. In doing this one of the challenges is the ability to have and keep these investments as prices are going higher all the time, but not my salary! I am actually buying "spot" Euros against the dollar in the evenings to try and make a bit more on the side. I read DU while watching the buy/sells of international $$$$!

[BeHereNow]

65. Sounds like you are on top of it!

I did talk my husband into converting some of our assets
into gold and silver- that has helped, but I wish he would of
listened to me about euros a year ago too...
I would like to invest in some NZ property too!
I think my husband is in shock actually, so I have to
work with him gently.
bhn

[Career Prole]

73. So if the boss gives you a 10% raise

you're still getting screwed?

[Alisa]

74. That's right - but what can the boss do? The bosses expenses

are going up too - unless the company's in a position to gouge. Mainly this is the administrations fault, Bush's not Clinton's. This is how we, the people (and our children, and so on), will pay for the corrupt financial games being played now.

It really is a very bad road we're on.

[VegasWolf]

66. Euro's for Christmas?

Repost of a comment I made on another thread.

Euros for christmas? With the market at 10,600 in spite of all
the negative or even mediocre indicators, they may be
running for a year end close on a positive note. Traders
have suggested the euro to go 1.33, 1.34, 1.35 and up in increments
and to use any dips in the price as a buying opportunity.
This pseudo market rally after the election might be one
provide one last chance to get euros before they go up again.

see also:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/breaking/breakingnewsarticle.asp?feed=OBR&Date=20041202&ID=4124311

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The dollar rallied across the board on Thursday in a brisk round of profit-taking in other currencies, which have climbed to highs in recent days.

Short-term traders said they viewed the dollar as oversold, but analysts continued to cite poor underlying sentiment surrounding the long-term negatives weighing on the U.S. currency, including the wide U.S. current account deficit.


Got your Everbank account set up yet. I don't want to lose all the money I made
during the Clinton years!

[Alisa]

68. Non-numismatic gold coins - or silver

would make a very nice gift. We are very much in the beginnings of a gold/silver bull market (I think). As "things" break down in the market (stocks, dollars, financial instruments) this is the place a lot of people will go. Remember, even "Euros" are fiat $.

[VegasWolf]

70. Yes, but metals are at a near price high, the upside on metals

has to be quite low at this point. My mom bought
gold 15 years ago at a then high, she's finally
recouped her money on it. Not sure Euro's are fiat
dollars. China has reduced to its US Treasury note
supply from 530 bln to 160 bln. When OPEC changes its basis
the Euro may be xdefault capital. Who knows. My
bets have paid off for me in the past very well.

[Alisa]

71. Euros are fiat but not, certainly, a bad bet. Still "metal" is a fab

gift, don't ya think?

I also don't believe we are any way near the top of gold or silver. But agreed, you could wait a few days for the correction in the market. I'm sure one will be coming pretty soon.

[VegasWolf]

77. Metal is always a nice gift ( I'm assuming were are not talking iron )

Do you actively trade currencies or metals and why do you
think gold hasn't peaked given its current price compared
to historical prices? just curious? Thanks, and welcome to DU!

[Alisa]

89. I do trade in currencies and metals

But I am not a BIG investor. Wish I was just not able to squeeze anything more $ out right now than I am. But I do what I can. I do believe there is a long way that gold (and silver, and other precious metals) can and will go. Right now the direction that gold is moving (up) is in step with the opposite direction of the US $ (down). This isn't true of, for instance, the EURO, in which gold hasn't made such a dramatic surge - because of other world currencies rising against the US dollar. At some point gold will rise in relation to these currencies I believe and at that point gold/silver will be in the mid stages of a bull market. Even if you don't agree that gold will move up against other currencies in the future (as it is with the US $) if you were to adjust for inflation of the US $ when gold peaked at around $800 per oz (early 1980's), you can see that today's 800 per oz would be something up-wards of 1200 per oz minimum.

You decide - a very good site for information is:
http://www.kitco.com

This is a commercial site - they sell precious metals there I think 24/7 and are reputable too. But if you can avoid it don't buy from them if you aren't a Canadian (they are a Canadian Co). When they sell to you they send a copy of the sale to the IRS, you will have to pay duty on it and the US gov't will know you have X amount of X. This isn't my favorite scenario.

I have done business with http://www.the-moneychanger.com/entry.phtml for years - very nice, private dealer - and an interesting site as well.

Do you research and you decide.

[VegasWolf]

92. Thanks Lisa for the pointers, I'll look into it. I had forgotten that

gold got to 800 at one time. Good luck on your investments.

[FogerRox]

67. Like Enron--Just bigger

The Flight of Capital is massive--Could the Oligarchy be stripping the US --just they did to Enron?

[against all enemies]

76. The one thing Rove can't spin - money. It's real and it 's gonna hurt.

They can call pollution Clear Sky's, and destroying national land ,Healthy Forests and get away with it, but whatever cool name they come up with this monetary policy, it doesn't matter. This country will experience high inflation, job loss, and bankruptcies, thanks George.

[Emillereid]

78. What is the real downside to a low dollar from the administration's

point of view. Isn't a low dollar just another way of lowering the deficit and improving our trade imbalance? I mean it's not like the central banks of other countries have anything else to do with all the surplus dollars except to continue to buy our T bills which in turn simply allows us to spend even more on credit (a bill I'm sure we'll never pay). One reason they have to do this is that they have to support the dollar -- since they own so many of them and they really don't have any other vehicle for getting rid of the dollars. (I don't think they're allowed to actually buy our industries are they?)

Unless other countries actually insist on payment in another currency or their own currencies, the relative 'value' of the dollar doesn't seem to matter -- and the lower the better from the Bushits' point of view. I mean the only downside seems to be higher prices of imported goods for us mere consumers -- and I don't think the Bushits care one wit about us and maybe higher interest rates which would probably pop the real estate bubble. But then all that real estate would be cheap again -- and good investments for those who still have money. I imagine that higher interest rates would actually benefit the ruling moneyed creditor class.

The world should never have trusted the dollar as a de facto world currency (especially for payment of oil). It's a mafia style racket as far as I can see!

[Chicago Democrat]

79. Read this Article in The Economist : The Future of the Dollar

The future of the dollar

The passing of the buck?
The Future of the Dollar
The Passing of the Buck
Dec 2nd 2004
From The Economist print edition

America's policies are putting at risk the dollar's role as the world's dominant international currency

FORECASTING exchange rates is an inexact business. As Alan Greenspan, the chairman of America's Federal Reserve, once said, the activity “has a success rate no better than that of forecasting the outcome of a coin toss.” Recent years have borne this out: most currency forecasters would actually have done better if they had simply tossed a coin—at least they would have been half right. Yet over the next few years it seems an excellent bet that there will be a large drop in the dollar.

Since mid-October the dollar has fallen by around 7% against the other main currencies, hitting a new all-time low against the euro and a five-year low against the yen. The dollar has lost a total of 35% against the euro since early 2002; but it has fallen by a more modest 17% against a broad basket of currencies, including the Chinese yuan, which is pegged to the greenback. The dollar wobbled badly this week, having fallen for five successive days after Mr Greenspan said that America's current-account deficit was unsustainable because foreigners would eventually lose their appetite for more dollar-denominated assets.

Mr Greenspan may not be the only central banker to have become bearish on the dollar. Markets have been rattled by concerns that foreign central banks might reduce their holdings of American Treasury bonds. Last week, officials at the central banks of both Russia and Indonesia said that their banks were considering reducing the share of dollars in their reserves. Even more alarming were reports that China's central bank, the second-biggest holder (after Japan) of foreign-exchange reserves, may have trimmed its purchases of American Treasury bonds.

This combination of events has led some economists to ponder the once unthinkable: might the dollar lose its reserve-currency status? Over the past 2,000 years, the leading international currency has changed many times, from the Roman denarius via the Byzantine solidus to the Dutch guilder and then to sterling. The dollar has been the dominant reserve currency for more than 60 years, delivering big economic benefits for America, which can pay for imports and borrow in domestic currency and at low interest costs


http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3445928

[Emillereid]

82. Thanks for the article. BTW Has anyone here read "SUPER IMPERIALISM"

by Michael Hudson. He talks about the hegemony of dollar that resulted from the withdrawal of the gold standard and the role of the dollar as international money (especially due to petro-dollar agreement).

[indigolady]

80. " . . . Too Crazy To Believe"

Read this:
Quo Vadis: Playing for Keeps:
http://www.tompaine.com/articles

<"The movement conservatives leading the GOP have decided that the way to get what they want is to throw out all the rules—whether that means speaking truthfully to American citizens, comity in the Senate, stare decisis in the Supreme Court or fiscal discipline in the budget. These concepts once defined the American form of government and placed the republic above partisanship. But to operatives like Karl Rove and Grover Norquist, they represent Democratic blind spots to be exploited. Bipartisanship, as Norquist once said, is merely another word for date rape.[br />

Destroying the economy in order to remake it is just the kind of gambit that Democrats would believe so unlikely that it is not worth considering. It defies logic and credibility. Just like the possibility that Christian Zionists could take over Congress or that Bush might invade Iraq with no real evidence of a threat.


It’s hard to write such a depressing analysis. It feels overly cynical. But then I remembered Ron Suskind’s profile of George W. Bush in the NYT Sunday Magazine. In it, a senior adviser to Bush told Suskind: “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”


And then I think I might just be right."}

[VegasWolf]

81. "Destroying the economy in order to remake it " sounds like

awol's iraq policy only this time with money instead of buildings!

[54anickel]

84. Yep, that's the Bushco MO, and it's WORKING!!! Dems and the old

conservative arm of the Repub party are all just sitting with that "deer caught in the headlights" look of total disbelief and astonishment. When do we wake up and take to the streets? I'm afraid it's not going to happen. Americans just can't believe it's happening so they call those who see it and proclaim it conspiracy nuts.

Thank God the rest of the world has their eyes open! Great to see the demonstrations in Canada and the articles coming out in the foreign media. Meanwhile the rest of the world walks on eggshells as they try to figure out the best way to deal with this empire nutcase with his itchy finger on the nuke trigger. They can't risk a military confrontation so their best bet is to unite and attack "us" economically when "we" least expect it.

I find it so hard to sit here in the US and root for the world to defeat "us". Yet, that is exactly what I've been doing.

[Career Prole]

85. Thanks, Five! It's actually a relief to hear it "out loud".

I find it so hard to sit here in the US and root for the world to defeat "us". Yet, that is exactly what I've been doing.

I feel saner after hearing someone else articulate the same thought that's been driving me batsh*t.

[Massachusetts]

83. Read this article to

Johnny Cash singing "Ring Of Fire":nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[Never2Return]

87. WTF is going on here?

Hello to all,

I'm new here, so be kind ;-)

Can someone tell me WTF is going on here?? We are mortgaging the future of our children's children and the Republicans seem to think that all is well? More debt than ever, the dollar about to become a third world asswipe currency, more wars on the way and this is OKAY???

[Career Prole]

88. In the "red state of mind", yes. It's all acceptable loss.

In their twisted little world, no price is too high to pay to overturn Roe v. Wade or to keep gays from marrying.
They'll even sacrifice their own children to the god Halliburton without complaint.
They'll accept a folded flag in exchange for their first-born to keep Janet Jackson's boob off TV.
You're right...it makes no sense at all.
Welcome to DU! :hi:

[SpecialK84]

90. WTF do they care?

I mean, really, Repukes fall into 2 categories:

1. They're filthy rich and if they plan a vacation to another country it won't matter to them if they have to pay practically double the price of everything.

2. They're redneck "to hell with em" inbreds who will never leave their own bubble anyway.

And as far as the longer term state-side ramifications ... those of course don't matter because Jesus is on his way to save the day.

[wildflower]

91. How do we, individually, prepare for what's coming?

I am trying to understand what is happening here - all the possible worst-case scenarios - and how to prepare for them.

Other than trying to prevent it, what can we do to prepare on an individual level?

Will our money be worthless? Will things be like the Great Depression, or worse?

If we pay rent or a mortgage, will we have to leave our homes? Should we start stockpiling water, food, seeds? I'm not sure what things will be like, or what to do.

I can certainly stockpile things, but I feel I don't understand what else can be done to prepare.

-wildflower

[Alisa]

93. This is a very BIG question - it deserves it's own thread

I posted earlier in this thread some of the things I'm doing, financially.

I think I was 8 or 10 years old when I heard about the massive inflation in Brazil at the time. People bought "things" today because the following week all "things" went up 100%. I don't know how long it continued like that but the whole idea, obviously, became unforgettable and has had a hand in my analysis of economics ever after.

Aside from that I think that wherever you can solve "needs" for yourself, food (growing), heat (alt energy), etc - where you don't have to "buy" something from someone else, Independence is key here.

You may want to liquidate some assets (like a home which has a great chance of huge drop in value) and invest in something that can maintain or even grow in "value". Again, look at some of my other posts on this thread.

There are even thoughts I have having to do with not paying bills, which first, what is your liability in each case? What kind of timing, in a big crash, would you be aiming for, assuming you will crash like many others (I expect I will to a degree), how can you soften it for yourself? For instance my answer to that last question would be to aim to not be an early "crasher" because as more and more "crashers" crash, the system will attempt to find solutions for these large numbers of people breaking down. So my goal is to push off loosing big assets. When you think this way I think you approach things differently.

No one has called me Suzie Sunshine for a great while.

:)

[wildflower]

94. I keep remembering Randi Rhodes...

She was talking about somewhere (was it Russia?) where one day their currency was worth something, then the next thing they knew, someone could could show up at a store with a wheelbarrow of paper currency and still not be able to buy a potato.

(My mind is blanking out on this one, if anyone can remember the details, please help me with the above duncey paragraph. :dunce:)

Anyway, that image is what I keep picturing.

You're right, maybe I should start a thread on this. There's also an Economic & Progressive Living group here.

-wildflower