NYC Firefighter in 9/11 Killed in Iraq

[emad]

Guardian

Wednesday December 1, 2004 3:16 PM
By ERIN McCLAM

Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - A New York City firefighter who had responded to the World Trade Center attack was killed in Iraq while serving with the Army National Guard, city officials said.

Sgt. Christian P. Engeldrum, 39, is the first FDNY firefighter to die in Iraq since the U.S.-led war began, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. Engeldrum was killed Monday when his vehicle came under attack outside Baghdad.

``I join all New Yorkers in mourning his loss and pray that his family finds comfort in the innumerable ways he touched so many lives,'' Bloomberg said in a statement.

Another New York firefighter, Daniel J. Swift, 24, was riding in the same vehicle and suffered shrapnel wounds, Bloomberg said. Swift was in Germany for treatment and was expected to recover.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4647054,00.html

[SpiralHawk]

1. Rest in peace, brother firefighter

rest in peace

[CBHagman]

2. What a waste.

I was reading The New York Times article concerning Engeldrum, Swift and another firefighter, Stephen Benish (only Swift survives), and I was saddened to see that Engeldrum was gung-ho to serve in the National Guard BECAUSE of 9/11 and his city being attacked. Clearly he didn't realize that Iraq did not attack the U.S. and that his city's foes were elsewhere.

Anyway, what a waste. They pitch people with everything to live for into endless war. Madness.

[Liberaltarian]

3. if he was killing Iraqi's over anger about 9/11...

then he got what he deserved.

[jhain]

4. no one deserves to die

None of these brave guys and none of the innocent iraqis...
Damn this is sad....

[Liberaltarian]

5. murderers do.

imho.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Perhaps in your world

Not in mine. Because if you follow your suggestion to the logical conclusion we would all be executed.

Don

[Liberaltarian]

12. not me.

I'm not a murderer.

but if you are, you should probably do the right thing and confess to the authorities.

[NNN0LHI]

17. You are an accessory to murder if you pay taxes in America

You can call all those dead Iraqi civilians "collateral damage" until you are blue in the face. It doesn't matter. Everyone knows the truth. Except you maybe?

Don

[leesa]

18. And we have a choice about paying taxes?

[NNN0LHI]

20. Actually we do have a choice. We can leave, or go to jail, etc.

And I don't think we deserve the death penalty for being part of it either. That is what my original post was about. I was only pointing out that there are not too many clean hands here. Including mine.

Don

[DrDan]

6. Why would you assume that he was "killing Iraqi's over anger about 9/11"?

Sounds like another Nat'l Guard/Reservist who got caught up in Junior's money-grabbing war. This one happened to be a firefighter as well.

Nothing I read in that article suggested revenge against the Iraqi's.

[Liberaltarian]

13. i didn't assume anything.

you obviously have some trouble with understanding the word "if"...

[AlCzervik]

16. He was in the Nationial Guard before 9/11

that was the guard was used in responding to emergencies here at home, give the guy a break.

[Raskolnik]

19. What a jackass thing to say.

[DrDan]

7. I looked at the article again

How do you know he was "killing" anyone?

Perhaps he filled a firefighter role while in the military as well? or simply a truck driver?

[NNN0LHI]

9. Could have been a cook? Oops, forgot. Halliburton does all that now n/t

[Liberaltarian]

10. you might want to look up the definition of "if"...

before jumping to conclusions.

[Liberaltarian]

11. you might want to look at my post again...

particularly the word "if".

[DrDan]

14. yeah - so?

I still do not see why you would even "consider" that - I did not see anything in the article that comes anywhere close to what you are suggesting.

[Liberaltarian]

15. why would i even consider that?

because A LOT of the morans who signed up for the war in Iraq have said that they did so out of anger over 9/11.

simple enough to understand yet?

[boi1946]

21. Your lack of compassion is amazing to me...

I'm an old Viet-Nam era protester. I'm sure this soldier was angry over 9/11--we all were. But you cannot condemn a man who was misled by this country into fighting in an unjust war---we were all misled---and we all should mourn for him and all the other casualties, OF ANY NATION !
You should condemn the bureaucrats and media who lied to all of us. The average soldier over there is only doing as he/she is told in a horrific situation and trying his best to stay alive until he/she can get the hell out of there.

[DrDan]

24. so because you believe a "lot" of reservists are out to get 9/11 revenge

that is the case with this firefighter and that his death is deserved?

That is the type logic more appropriately argued at Free Republic.

By the way, could you share with us your research into why Reservists and Nat'l Guard members volunteer for Iraq? I am sure it would be enlightening. I was under the misguided impression that most were simply Reservists and their units received orders to report.

[raggedcompany]

22. finally, a link between 9/11 and the Iraqi war!

flame away to your heart's content

[CBHagman]

23. The NY Times article on the firefighters injured or killed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/01/nyregion/01firefighter.html?oref=login

Again, I find it just terribly sad.

[Moderator]

25. Duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1035072