Calif. weighs way to split electoral votes

[bufffbison]

http://newsobserver.com/24hour/nation/story/1884138p-9812954c.html


Calif. weighs way to split electoral votes

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - Two Republican lawmakers are introducing a bill that would award California's most-in-the-nation electoral votes by congressional districts, a step they say would make it "the leading battleground state for all future elections."
Democrat John Kerry won California's 55 electoral votes on Nov. 2 by taking more than 54 percent of the popular vote.

But if legislation to be introduced Monday by Assemblymen John Benoit and Tom Harman had been in effect, Kerry and President Bush would have split the state's electoral votes because of Bush's strong showing in the state's inland areas and a few coastal counties.

Under the bill, a presidential candidate would get one electoral vote for each of the state's 53 congressional districts in which he or she had the most votes. Two electoral votes would be awarded to the candidate who got the most votes statewide.

[kedrys]

1. Let's burn down the freakin' Reichstag while we're at it. Grr. n/t

[Ima]

2. Fork them

They don't even want to go there!

[VegasWolf]

3. The dems should respond by arguing that they should get rid of the

electoral college in its entirety and go with a popular vote as we do with all other office holders.

[bliss_eternal]

9. I agree!

Plus that, as a Californian I am getting really tired of these Repubs coming in to OUR state and trying to turn it upside down with their malice. If the recall of Gray Davis and putting Schwarz-his-name in office wasn't enough-- (sigh) I really don't know what to say...just sick of the sour grapes of Repubs as far as CA is concerned.

[VegasWolf]

28. Thanks! I'm an ex-Californian also, just moved to Nevada!

[Name removed]

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[juliagoolia]

46. They already have done crap all over TX

When they decide to take on a state its for a larger purpose. They've been tired of losing all the electoral votes there.
I suggest if they continue with this that the DEMS take on all the GOP strongholds as well.

Sickening. Local Dems will have to push for some nationwide initiative or work like hell in CA to stop it.

[bliss_eternal]

78. Hi Julia

:hi:
I don't get it. Why do they move here (to CA) anyway. CA has a rep for being very liberal, a health conscious state, environmentally concerned etc. I found this out when I briefly resided in the Midwest.
When I hear Repubs that relocated here from other places, complain that we are too liberal or that their votes don't count for who they want in office-- I just don't get it.

Why the hell do they come here? Is it just the status stuff? Do they just come here to be a part of coastal money communities or something?

[Liberal Chad from WI]

10. NO WAY

There is no way we can get rid of the electoral college because otherwise states with small population would never get a point of view. It sounds simple to just go with the popular vote, but it would not work.

[Kimber Scott]

19. One man, or one woman, one vote. That's point of view enough.

The only justification behind the electoral college at this point is so candidates don't have to campaign in all 50 states, thereby being able to focus their time and money on a few "battleground" states. This leaves the majority of the country without a "point of view."

[Spangle]

24. Small states don't count the way it is now

The Small states don't get any attention. If they are Red, the republicans assume they will stay that way and the Democrats can't afford to spend money what little money they have fighting a known strong hold of red for just a few EC votes.

But make every vote COUNT equal...

Then the Presidentual Race would be done a whole lot differently. Instead of having the "time" to hit the big states a dozen times, they would be hitting every 'city' they can in every STATE they can.

[VegasWolf]

27. This small state argument is a red herring thrown out by the

repukes. When the constitution was written, there were only
13 territories ( states ) all relatively equal. The only people
that could vote were white, male, property owners. The fear
was that these people, either because of communications issues
over long distances or sheer incompetence might elect the wrong
person. In this case, a wiser subset of white, male, property
owners could correct the mistake and elect the right person.
The electoral college is an anachronism. In a democracy one
might think that elected representatives represent the issues
of the majority of the people, and not some biased representational
sample. However, with bushco owning the voting machines and
lobbyists paying off both sides of the aisle, the people are
fucked regardless.

[shanti]

56. exactly

the voting machine problem is what needs to be addressed the most. if that isn't fixed, nothing else matters.

[NYC]

34. Small states have 2 senators, just like big states.

[Andromeda]

36. Maybe that's the way it should be.

One person, one vote. Sounds more Democratic to me. I'm getting sick of the red states picking our presidents every election cycle.

[iam]

60. I don't get it...

We don't serve STATES we serve PEOPLE. If 1 person lived in South Dakota, should it have the same impact on a national election as a state that has a million residents? No. The people of California/texas' point of view was ignored because it was so lop-sided for one candidate or another. If there were no electoral college, bush* would've gone to Cal. listening to THEIR point of view. if On another level, I live in GA and my Presidential vote was NOT counted because of the Electoral College. Do you think that is a good thing?
Why wouldn't a straight vote work? The candidate with the most votes wins, how can that not work?

[Odonata]

72. That's what the Senate's for

Every state, regardless of population, gets two Senators.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

15. Exactly how I feel about it.

I don't see where the electoral college is still relevant. Kill the whole damn thing and let majority choose.

[bobbyboucher]

58. I bet you would.

You'd like alot of things I'm sure.

[jayctravis]

71. But if there were no electoral college...

what would CNN do with their big flashy Jeopardy board on election night? They'd just have to show numbers...how sad for them!

[TheFarseer]

4. This is total bullshit

Either we should do split electoral votes in all states or in no states. Watch this end up where all the blue states have split electoral votes and none of the red states have it. A few Asshole Tome Delay wanna-bes and it will happen.

[Ima]

8. Good Catch

Now I'm even madder!:grr:

[yorkiemommie1]

17. this is what they want

dammit. every day some new vicious maneuver from the GOP. i feel like i'm in a maze. run one way, slam. run the other way, slam.

[iamjoy]

5. Some Merit To This

But only with comprehensive election reform.
All states allocate electoral votes proportionately.
When Congressinal districts are drawn, it is by a non-partisan (or multi-partisan) commission - NOT by the legislature.

Let's have some real contests in the country

[high density]

6. Let's ax the electoral college completely

Until then, none of this bullshit.

[Ima]

7. The big cry baby's

"It's a slap in the face of California voters that our 55 electoral votes, the largest bloc in the country, are given to one candidate without anything more than a token campaign being launched in our state," Benoit said." :cry: :cry: :cry:



If they had ever lived in a battleground state they would think different.

Phone calls, letters, people banging on your doors, endless commercials and political signs....it can become a nightmare for a year.

[SKKY]

11. First re-zoning some districts in Texas to benefit Republicans...

...now they want to "tweak" the electoral college? Sounds pretty "Rove-ian" to me.

[Placebo]

12. Oh My God, NO! NO!! NO!!!

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

WE CAN'T LET THIS HAPPEN!!!

[IndianaGreen]

13. I want to see similar legislation in the red states

I am tired of us winning Indianapolis and Gary for the Democrats while the rest of the state goes repuke. I want our proportion of the votes to be reflected in the Electoral College vote.

No more winner take all!

[juliagoolia]

47. We can take TX and AZ too.. lets just have the dems do a counter move

If they do it there, then the DEMS in TX need to get it here.
We have a few electoral votes too.

Lets see.

We will split votes in FL,TX, and AZ.

That would set them back on their heels a bit.

[Zorro]

14. They're smokin' crack

Other than Schwartzenburger, the Dems control California elected state offices and dominate the legislature. This will probably give them a good laugh.

[grok]

20. Ballot initiative is the bigger threat

If those two guys go the initiative route, they can bypass the legislature. And then we could wind up voting on this ourselves in the next election. Like Colorado.

they could easily get the signatures together in orange county.

Grok

[JI7]

21. if it results in Red States doing the same , Republicans might not be for

it.

they have to think of the consequences. if they think it might get some of the more conservative states to do the same i assume they wont do it. it looks good for republicans when you assume only California doing it. but lets imagine Florida follows, as does Ohio. both of these states are overall Republican leaning, but not solid safe Republican.

[AndyTiedye]

23. They Can Block it In All The Red States Anyway

They have enough control at the state level of every red state to
keep it from happening, while it looks egalitarian enough on the
surface that they can probably push it through in any blue state
they want.

This obviously create a situation where no Democrat could possibly ever win.

[gaia_gardener]

52. How do you go about doing a citizen

movement to get something on the ballot? I know that they did it here in OK to get cockfighting on the ballot (of course we're still fighting that legal battle). Is it just a matter of organizing and standing around with petitions?

[Deja Q]

16. Oh for God's sake. Ban the electoral college and do popular and run-off

voting and end this shit.

Breaking down the votes is ludicrous.

May as well let the blue states secede then.

[sonicx]

18. Good luck with that Dem legislature, boys...

[found object]

22. This would screw the cities big time

For, by and of the people, my ass. This bill will expand the electoral system which is undemocratic enough as it is.

[olddad56]

25. like it matters....

elections are no longer even carrying a pretense of fairness. The democratic party is over, before that, the republican party was hijacked without most republican voters even noticing. Democracy died in 2000. Hope that it didn't die in 2000 died in 2004. We are transitioning from a democratic form of government to a 'corporate fascism' form of government. The average Joe gets all of his political information from the corporate media sources. Joe's brain has been scrubbed. It is a done deal. It isn't just at a federal level, it is clear down to the local level. If you are a politician today, you are most likely either a republican or a democrat. If you are a democrat, you can't raise the funds to fight off the slanderous attacks on your character. If you are a republican you either support the 'corporate fascist' party or you are blackballed and they don't support you. We can go on pretending that we live somewhere like the Ukraine where people care enough to fight for what they believe in, or we can come to grips with the fact that the form of government that we have always enjoyed and taken for granted is dead. It is a whole new ballgame and it ain't pretty unless you sell out and become a party member.

[VegasWolf]

29. Yes sir, good to see a pragmatic soul! n/t

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

31. you're right - it's over-

I just posted similar views below.
Anyone can see it if they look.
We are in for one hell of a time.

[Yupster]

26. Currently two states

do it this way. They are Maine and Nebraska. So far the same candidate has won all the district's so it hasn'r had any effect.

Colorado just voted a split system down.

It would certainly be a disaster to have California split theirs. It would be like giving away Pennsylvania every election because the Republican candidate would probably net abbout 20 electoral votes at least from California.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

30. eyewash--there will be no more elections

just one terra event-->patriot act rounds up all opposition--->military law delared under the guise of "temporary"--->elections suspended indefinitely---
Permanent pResident.
nothing there to stop it from happening.
The opposition is too spineless.
And they will all pay with their freedom.

[Sandpiper]

32. This stands as much of a chance as Bill Jones' Senate run did

California is a blue state.

If our local wingnuts don't think Cali is red enough, they're perfectly welcome to pack up their shit and move to Alabama.

[TahitiNut]

33. Split California in half and get 2 more electoral votes.

I suggest an east-west line just north of Santa Barbara. South of that line could be called Reagomania. :evilgrin:

[jamesinca]

35. They need to give California the electoral votes it deserves

If California were to fall in line with the per capita of the rest of the country for electoral votes we would have at least 67. I would have no problem taking one from KS, NE, OK, MO, 4xTX, CO, AZ, AL, GA. If you want to make CA a battle ground state give it 67 electoral votes like it deserves, it is 1/8 of the populace. It is the 5th to 6th largest economy in the world. It is almost half of the U.S. economy. We feed this country with the agriculture from the San Joaquin Valley. There are at least 25 military bases or munitions depots etc... here in CA. We are a giver state in terms of tax dollars. California as it is off sets the entire Midwest for electoral votes. But I feel it contributes more to this country than the entire Midwest so it should have more influence in the government than the Midwest.

If it went one person one vote, California would determine more than it does now. 33+ million people in this state! Sen. Boxer who just won re-election did it with almost 60% of the vote here in CA. She won in counties that are traditionally republican, she won real big in traditionally Democrat counties. Her challenger won some traditional red counties with only 49% to her 48% and third party at 3%. These little piss ants want to play this game and Dems get off their asses and work, and vote, you will see 11-12 million Dem voters come out of this state as Sen. Boxer showed. I think they are relying on the apathy of the democratic populace to pull this off. Republicans will get off of their death bed to vote, not Dems.

In either case, popular vote or electoral vote, we are playing with fire when it comes to CA and it needs to be thought out well.

[Andromeda]

37. Get rid of the electoral college. Period!

I hope it goes down in defeat and I will write letters to keep it the way it is.

NO MORE GIFTS TO THE REPUBLICANS!

[purduejake]

38. It was meant to protect us....

from being taken over by aggressors who run the country into the ground. It's failed and it's time for it to go.

[DeepModem Mom]

39. kick

[OnionPatch]

40. This is total bullshit!!!

Unless they do this in EVERY state, this is nothing but a sure ticket to the White House for the GOP. And I agree with the poster who said they're sick of them coming here and trying to turn us into Jesusland! Go to Alabama or Mississippi, you Pukes. Then you can be
surrounded by your own kind.

[Walt Starr]

41. Yep, the REpublicans are trying to insure that Democrats NEVER

get elected again.

This would be the final nail in the coffin of the Democratic Party.

I predict this passes.

[Komrade _azul]

42. After Colorado, How can this be stopped?

Have to be honest, thought the Colorado idea was a pretty good one, but now that the repukes have figured out how to do the same in Ca. and possibly other states the shine has worn off the apple.
I don't want to be the one arguing for the destruction of states rights and all that, imagine rule by fiat by King George, but this issue might just pick up steam. If all states alloted their votes in parcels by percentage of the popular vote it would overrule the electoral college and actually return power to popular vote.
Some silver lining in the end.

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. But if only blue states did it

It would make it virtually impossible for a Democrat to be elected President.

[CBHagman]

43. I see the hand of Rove, DeLay and their ilk in this.

Part of the task is to control the message, part of it is to starve financially anyone who stands in the GOP's way, part of it is to gerrymander districts, part of it is to control the media, part of it is to demoralize anyone progressive and keep them divided as possible, and part of it is to change the rules to reinforce a Republican majority. They're evil, they're convinced they cannot fail, and they do have a chance of pulling this off, though not of getting a permanent majority. They could drag this country back to before the Progressive era and then the pendulum will swing the other way, but not before many innocent people have been harmed and many people have died.

I hope anyone in California is fighting this with all their might.

[LakeCohoon]

45. This Is A Dead End Issue

It will not happen, nor will the Electoral College ever be abolished.

The best one can do is analyze the lay of the land as it is and formulate a winning strategy.

Am I too much of a realist?

[TO Kid]

49. You got that right

As Sir Humphrey Appleby (Yes, Minister) put it, no politician in his right mind would make fundamental reforms to the system that put him in power. That being said, there's just no way you could get the 38 states needed to abolish the EC, because they'd lose influence.

[Bono71]

51. Agree 100%

[davidinalameda]

48. it will never pass

we still hold both houses

[rinsd]

69. Initiative Process....

That is how CO got it on their ballot(it failed)

[GOPBasher]

50. That better NOT, NOT, NOT pass. The Dems lead in Cali, right?

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. Just like a recall would never pass?

And CA voters would never elect a Republican as Governor?

[GOPBasher]

62. Well, Arnold is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, etc.

So it's not like they elected Bush over there. Arnold is a different case.

[VegasWolf]

63. That's true, the hard core repukes I know can't stand him!

[robcon]

53. This would be the end of California's importance in the election

It would be a battle for the 'marginal' districts, with only a few of them in play. Even within a 60-40 split, the winner would only get a 10 or fewer electoral vote advantage over the loser in California.

California is worth 54 electoral votes to the winner. If it was proportional within districts, no more than 10 or so would be in play. California would be worth 10 electoral votes instead of 54.

[Columbia]

54. When was California ever important in the election?

[nodehopper]

79. well, it has like a gazillion electoral votes.

[ourbluenation]

57. Did anyone read newseek this week

and the article about Karl Rove? Basically, his next big challenge is to make a permanant GOp majority. Also, a California congresswoman, Zoe somebody is pushing legislation to do away with the elecorate college all together.

Here's a link to the Rove article

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6596809/site/newsweek/

JTT

[LongTomH]

68. One Party Country

What this asshole is talking about is a one-party country, not just a permanent GOP majority. When Donna Brazille said the repukes wanted a one-party country, everyone dumped on her; now they're all but admitting it!:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[JVS]

64. This allows gerrymandering within the state to maximize EV

[abelenkpe]

66. when your team can't win change the rules! nt

[BareskinMatt]

67. Isn't this the same thing we wanted to happen in Colorado?

I recall the general consensus was that if CO did this it would be a good thing.

[rinsd]

76. Yes...yes it is....(nt)

[Greyhawk]

70. Truly pathetic and obvious...

Is there anything more obvious than trying to split a state for your guy that he lost so dramatically in? And a state R's are unlikely to carry for many years...

Naked politics at it's worst.

[rinsd]

75. It wasn't thought as so bad when WE did it....

In Colorado there was similar measure with Democratic backing...at a time when Kerry was losing the state.

"Helping lead the charge for the measure, called Amendment 36, is Democratic consultant Rick Ridder, a veteran of the Howard Dean campaign.

Julie Brown, the campaign director of Make Your Vote Count, the Denver-based group pushing the measure, said the idea began in 2001, when a Democratic state legislator from Boulder, Ron Tupa, proposed a bill to allocate Colorado’s electoral votes as Maine and Nebraska do: the popular vote winner would get two electoral votes and the winner of the rest of the state’s electoral votes would be determined by who carried each congressional district."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6106804/

[Joanne98]

73. The damn greedy bastards never stop..

The dems in CA better get their shit together. We need a recall of fuckhead and a re-districting of Orange County and the Bakersfield back-waters.

[CreekDog]

74. CA split would be something like D 36 - R 19

This is based on 2000 election results (2004 by congressional district aren't available to me yet --for free at least). In 2000, Gore won 33 congressional districts (CD's) to Bush's 19. I assume the 2 other electoral votes would go to the popular vote winner statewide.

Also, the argument that nobody would pay attention to California if our electoral clout was diminished in this way is absolutely ridiculous!

Nevada has only 5 electoral votes and had more visits from the candidates than California. To say that if our electoral votes were diminished that we would get less attention makes no sense.

A state's ability to attract presidential candidate visits is based on 2 things:

1) whether the state is "in play" or not (or potentially could be)
2) fundraising needs

In this respect, California turned out to be a cash cow for both candidates, and they both visited California, but mostly with low visibility fundraising stops rather than high profile campaign events. Also there was no local commercial ads for either candidate, so that left us 'feeling' left out of the process. It's not really true, it's more true that we had basically made up our minds and the candidates spent the time with folks who hadn't. The electoral college's presence won't really change this basic style of campaigning. Removal of the Electoral College would shift the focus from a few battleground states, however.

[bluestatepatriot]

77. HELL NO

not in my blue state! If they do it here, they have to do it everywhere, and then allow the districts to be weighed by population. Do they offer some sort of reason for this other than "we want more"? That is worse than gerrymandering.

[AlFrankenFan]

80. No no no no no no no no no and no

Just no. No. No.