Giambi Admitted to Doping During 2003 Season

[fryguy]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/02/MNG80A523H1.DTL

New York Yankees star Jason Giambi told a federal grand jury that he had injected himself with human growth hormone during the 2003 baseball season and had started using steroids at least two years earlier, The Chronicle has learned.

<snip>

In his testimony, Giambi described how he had used syringes to inject human growth hormone into his stomach and testosterone into his buttocks. Giambi also said he had taken "undetectable" steroids known as "the clear" and "the cream" -- one a liquid administered by placing a few drops under the tongue, the other a testosterone-based balm rubbed onto the body.

<more>

can't wait for the Boston Globe to pick this up.....

[matcom]

1. a Yankee cheating?

nnnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ;)

[sir_captain]

2. Jeremy "Red Sox" Giambi

admitted to cheating too... :p

[Sandpiper]

3. Impossible

The Red Sox are paragons of virtue...

Notwithstanding their being the last MLB franchise to integrate.

[StopTheMorans]

11. holding grudges for decades, eh?

california didn't enter the union until well after MA did, because they are un-american :P makes about as much sense...

[Sandpiper]

13. Actually California was stolen from Mexico

But on the bright side, our history doesn't include Cotton Mather!

:*

And sorry, but the Yawkey family was a bunch of crackers.

[StopTheMorans]

16. i know they were, but they're not there now

:)

[hughee99]

39. Ah yes,

The last team to integrate in 1959. I'd like to have a word with all of those front office people in the Red Sox organization about this. I'm sure most of them are still around 45 years later. Naturally anyone with such a corrupt front office would see no problem with Jeremy's cheating.

[hughee99]

38. Yes, and it sure showed

in his brief 50 games with the Sox...

His 5 HR's in 127 AB's, 5 Doubles, 15 RBI's, and .197 Batting average was certainaly the reason the Redsox had such a good season in 2003. How did he become Jeremy "Red Sox" Giambi with only 50 games?
Wouldn't 270 games with Oakland, 108 games with the Royals, or 82 games with the Phillies make him some other team's albatross?

As you can see from my Avatar, I'm a little biased here, though.

[St. Etienne]

4. good for Giambi

I respect that he admitted to taking steroids, and now as a Dodger fan, I cannot wait for more muck to be raked all over Barroids.

[pinniped]

5. Bonds sure played a good season under the microscope huh?.

.

[St. Etienne]

6. Yes he sure did!

But his team failed to get into the playoffs. Another year of amazing personal accomplishment with a failure of a team. Maybe if Bonds was not such a prick to a guy like Kent, then Barry would have better talent around him to win the WS.

[pinniped]

7. Another typical anti-Bonds tirade.

You ever think Kent was a prick to Bonds?

If the Giants had the money to spend they will have Moises Alou batting backing up Bonds. Every year it's the same story, not enough money, not enough money. At least the Giants scored a closer this coming season.

[Shakespeare]

8. Defending Bonds in a thread on steroids?

Always good for a laugh. :evilgrin:

[pinniped]

9. Post your proof or you know what to do with your allegations.

.

[Shakespeare]

14. I believe the grand jury is looking at the proof right now.

Testimony has been leaked from his trainer, from Giambi (who sought out his trainer to help him do "whatever Bonds is doing"), and from several others.

Defend him all you want, but I believe anybody who thinks Bonds hasn't used steroids is in deep, deep denial. And there's more "proof" that he used than there is that he didn't, frankly.

[FredScuttle]

19. call me deep then

I happen to believe the man and will until it is proven that he used steroids. "Innocent until proven guilty", right? Or should I join the lemmings and give in to hearsay, conjecture and the ridiculousness of writers and pundits who turn into physiology experts when they point to pictures of Bonds 10 years apart and go "Look! Proof positive Barry's on the juice!"

Do you have any tangible proof that he used steroids? I mean other than the most circumstantial of "evidence" (Did it ever occur to you that, while his trainer may have supplied steroids to other players, Barry could have turned him down?)

I prefer to apply reason and fairness, especially to Bonds, who has received neither from the baseball press or "fans" like you

[Shakespeare]

21. "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean we can't form opinions.

I'm always amused at those on DU who want to shout down anybody with an opinion by insisting that we're not allowed to form an opinion until a trial has concluded. That is complete and utter bullshit. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

And I'm not a "fan" of Bonds'. Steroids or no steroids, I've always thought he was a jerk. If it turns out he did use steroids, well, that's just icing on the cake.

Do you really know that much about criminal law? You do understand, don't you, that almost all evidence is "circumstantial?" The "hearsay" you mention so condescendingly is significant and pretty damning. The grand jury is looking at ALL of that right now--from BALCO's records on down to testimony from individuals like Giambi. THEY are the ones who must operate on the "innocent till proven guilty" premise, and I'm confident they'll do a fine job.

[FredScuttle]

28. I never said you can't have an opinion

I just said I'll wait for the evidence to show before I state as fact that the guy is dirty. You, on the other hand, prefer to hang first, get the proof later.

And I didn't mean to say that you're a fan of Bonds...I put the word "fan" in quotes as a form of derision. I'll slow it down a bit in the future to make sure you can grasp this.

Oh, and which course in law school teaches you that grand juries convict, as opposed to indict?

[Shakespeare]

29. Hmmm. Did I say those things? Not quite.

Do the words "I believe" as opposed to "absolute fact" make sense to you? I made a joking comment (that apparently spurred this little flame war) based on my opinion, which I've not represented to be anything but an opinion. Is that really difficult for you to differentiate? For you to go on to extrapolate that I want to skip the trial is a bit, well, ridiculous. Because I happen to hold the opinion that Bonds used steroids in no way indicates that I think we should forego due process. Again, a completely illogical extrapolation.

And the grand jury is looking for probable cause (which would lead to an indictment, or not). I didn't use the words "grand jury" and "convict." If you inferred that, you inferred incorrectly.

Your use of the word fan--the derision of which I understood perfectly--was an odd non sequitur, which is why I made the point of doing the obvious, which is stating that I'm not a fan of his. Or do I need to say that more slowly?

edited for typo

[FredScuttle]

36. I didn't start this fire

If you want to state in a post that "anybody who thinks Bonds hasn't used steroids is in deep, deep denial", then don't be surprised when those who disagree take issue with you. I couldn't care less if you think Bonds used steroids...I happen to disagree with you, but I could give a shit about trying to convince you that you're wrong. Go ahead and believe Bonds is on the juice...no one's stopping you.

However, when you frame your argument as one supported by the facts, that's where I take issue. You've said "there's more 'proof' that he used than there is that he didn't, frankly" and, when I asked you for this alleged "proof", you have no response.

Let's put the "fan" issue to rest...I called into question your legitimacy as a baseball fan, not a fan of Barry's specifically.

[Shakespeare]

37. Heh.

Okay, FredScuttle--precisely what kind of "proof" would you like me to offer? A test result on Bonds? I think we both know that that's laughable. Thing is, the investigators also know that's laughable, so that's why the grand jury is listening to person after person testify. It's why they're looking at BALCO's records under a microscope. And on and on. Yes, I did respond to your request, but apparently didn't respond in a manner deemed acceptable by you. C'est la Guerre.

My opinion is based on the information out there, including the consistency of testimony we know about that ALL point to Bonds' using steroids. I don't really care if that's not good enough for you--I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor, there being fire where there's smoke, and so on. Tell me this--if the grand jury comes back with an indictment, are you going to bewail that, too? If he is ultimately judged to be guilty, are you going to continue to insist upon his innocence because the particular kind of proof you require wasn't the same proof used to arrive at the judgment?

As far as my legitimacy as a baseball fan, I invite you to search DU's archives to see just what and how much I've had to say about baseball. You may be surprised.

[FredScuttle]

40. Okay

I should put the word of Victor Conte above a lab result conducted by MLB. Got it.

Y'know, those Swift Boat assholes were pretty consistent in their testimony too.

[Shakespeare]

41. Have you seriously not kept up with MLB testing issues?

They've justifiably taken heavy, heavy criticism for their ineffective tests. This is a problem that goes FAR beyond whatever's happening with Bonds.

And to compare this to the Swift Boat nonsense is just absurd.

[pinniped]

20. What proof? People talking shit about each other?

Got any lab results to post?

Until then you have got nothing but shit allegations.

[Shakespeare]

22. Uh-huh. I'm sure that ALL of that testimony is absolutely baseless.

Barry is a gentleman of the highest order and would never use steroids.

sarcasm/off

We'll see how "shit" the allegations truly are. That's why there's a grand jury looking at it right now. You know, Giambi has no reason to "talk shit" about Bonds, and telling the truth about his use didn't do him much good in the PR area. To write off his testimony as "shit allegations" is really, really, really pathetic.

[pinniped]

24. Fine, that's your opinion.

I prefer to wait for "real" evidence and you know that that is. Or at least you should by now.

Bonds said before last season that MLB can test him every single day. Wow, he's sure trying to hide from all that testing going on.

And to produce a record season under the scope, damm he's sure taking a chance.

[Shakespeare]

25. LOL! Yeah, I know what evidence is. Law is how I make my living.

And if you aren't aware that those tests are a sham and don't pick up most of the designer steroids out there now, maybe you should do a little more reading.

Saying "test me every day" really doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot under the current testing protocol, unfortunately.

[pinniped]

26. A lawyer huh?

Why would you would rather believe talk than solid proof? Did it ever occur to you that people lie all the fucking time?

Why would talk weigh more than proof in your opinion?

They know it's designer so they have absolutely clue as what to look for? Pretty good, absolutely 100% undetectable.

Maybe you should do a little more thinking.

[Shakespeare]

27. Did I say that? Uh, nope.

Never said "talk" would weigh more than proof. But "proof" is a rather broad term, and that most certainly can include testimony ruled relevant.

Of course people lie all the time. That's why one hopefully gets a range of testimony in hopes of establishing consistency--and that apparently is the case in this investigation.

Like I said, you might want to do a little reading on the ineffectiveness of baseball's current testing protocol. It's a complete joke.

[Forkboy]

34. Jeeez

Someone needs decaf.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

51. I gotta step in here

I can't let anyone get away with lawyerbashing. So, cut it out. Stay with the issues.

Bonds is dirty - it's on the record now - but he's claiming he only took the stuff that his trainer gave him.

I've always loved the Eichmann defense - he was just following orders.

While we're about it, anyone get a look at Mark McGwire a few months after he so precipitously retired from baseball? A little guy with no bulk.

Or, as I might refer to him in a court of law, a fake who stole a record by cheating.

I say give the record back to Maris, and make these chumps give back their millions. They're why MLB sucks.

[hughee99]

42. Why not ask Barry?

It looks like he's admitted to using the stuff, "He just didn't know there were steriods in there". It looks like the only "shit allegations" now will be whether he knew what he was doing or not.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=577&e=1&u=/nm/20041203/sp_nm/nl_steroids_balco_dc

[St. Etienne]

10. Maybe he was...

but what I sure do know is that he will never be as great as Mays or Ruth in my mind until he gets a WS title. I feel sorry for SF fans who are stuck with a cheap owner. I wonder if Bonds would be willing to restructure his contract to give Sabean more money to work with (we know that Vizquel and Benitez won't help too much on that team of dinosaurs).

[pinniped]

12. Yes, the team definitely needs the WS title before he retires.

His career is incomplete without one. He even said the personal awards don't mean as much as a team championship would.

The owners are kinda cheap IMO and if they each kicked in a couple million more a year they could sign a big name. I think there are like 11 different partners.

As crazy as it seems, it's almost like they don't want a WS title. They know the fans will still pay to see Barry no matter what. Well, if they don't put together a WS winning team before he retires the attendance will suffer more after he leaves.

[Bono71]

30. The guy is on roids...you can have him

[Shakespeare]

31. Careful, you're not entitled to an opinion!

Don't you know we're all supposed to be brainless little robots until guilt or innocence is decided? ;-)

[Uzybone]

32. Dont mind them

they dont know that Kent is despised on every team he has been. Including the chickenshit Houston Astros.

[Renew Deal]

49. Bonds is a chump and a cheater.

I only hope history reflects that.

[NCN007]

35. easy there

talking like that, on a thread about ethically bankrupt athletes, and using a lakers avitar...

go warriors! (so bad no one cares what drugs we're using)

[maxsolomon]

15. lets just legalize it & have fun

how big can they get?

what kind of crazy rages will they get into?

how early can they die?

it will be another stat category for the geeks - track the drugs their favorite players are ingesting: cc's of HGH/RBI?

[Just Me]

17. So, what. Am I the only one getting really sick of these kind of scandals?

We have men and women dying because of crimes far worse than this.

Men and women are dying because of an illegal war sold to the American public as a "just" war.

Men and women and children are dying because of social policies that leave them behind.

Men, women and children are dying because of corporate policies allowing pharmaceutical profits to be prioritized over our people's lives.

[Blue_Tires]

18. Bonds is next

that shoe is about to drop!

[Forkboy]

23. Isn't the guy who did the supplying on 20/20 Friday night?

Should be interesting :)

Hmmmm....50 HRs and shrivelled testicles!!!!

[DS1]

33. Testosterone rubbed into the body...

I see... :think:

[RuleofLaw]

43. Barry Bonds:

Looks like the steroids affected his brain too:


One day after it was reported that Jason Giambi admitted to a federal grand jury that he used steroids, it was revealed that Barry made a similar confession, with one slight departure: He claimed he didn’t know they were steroids.

Barry said he took substances from his trainer and friend, Greg Anderson, but was told they were flaxseed oil, a nutritional supplement, and a rubbing balm for arthritis. I can understand the confusion. I took flaxseed oil for a while and noticed that my shirts burst at the seams and I was able to lift SUVs off the ground with one hand. I have also, from time to time, applied rubbing balm to my tired joints and muscles, and whenever I do I start getting calls from NFL scouts.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6642563/

[Candide]

47. To use an androgen topically

(such as Trenbolone) http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catfinaplix.htm

you would need a really strong solvent to carrier it through the skin, such as DMSO. These solvents reeeaaally smell rank, and will leave the applied area red and itchy. If Bonds really was the recipient of such a preparation, it would be obvious that it wasn't plain old tiger balm.

Although I'm not a sports fan, so I have no opinion either way

[sendero]

44. Folks...

... need to wake the $%# up.

Pro sports are awash in anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing drugs.

The Olympics are in the same boat.

Pro athletes whose million dollar careers depend on their best performance find these drugs too good to pass up. And I don't blame them. Yeah, I said it, who gives a rats ass? It's their body, how is risking the sides of anabolics (which are hyped as much as Reefer Madness was for pot) that much worse than risking a broken neck or back (for a football player) or other serious injury in the name of the game?

So now the same people who want every gun in the country melted down and going to hue and cry about getting 'roids out of sports. It will NEVER, EVER, EVER happen, because it is impossible to design a testing regimen that really works, and the fact that these drugs work is undeniable.

But I do get a good laugh out of the whole thing in the meantime :)

[Massachusetts]

45. Big Mac

The real HR King! :thumbsup: :beer:

[Shakespeare]

46. Sure, after he started using andro and creatine.

Banned since then, but still performance-enhancing. I'd like to see somebody totally clean beat Maris' record. I won't be holding my breath.

[osubucks30]

50. This is what they need to DO!

Lets start testing these guys all the time. The only reason they are making all this money is because of the FANS!! If they can't play fair then they shouldn't play at all. I say baseball needs to drop the HAMMER and suspend BONDS and Giambi for at least a year!! Heck they should make them retire. IT WOULD BE A SHAME FOR BONDS TO PASS RUTH OR AARON ON THE HOME RUN LIST. They suspend people for arguing with the umps and corked bats. This is 1000 times worse IMO!! If the fans demand MLB to act they will.

[grumpy old fart]

48. I'm shocked, shocked, to find gambling....... .

lol...come on, at least 25% of MLB is juiced. Unless they're gonna do it like the NFL, they should just drop the charade. I vote for dropping the charade and just being the juice and jack league the owners obviously want anyway.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

52. All together now:

"Rest in peace, Lyle Alzado."