Marines in Fallujah 'Get By' With Armor

[maddezmom]

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq - Marines patrolling the former insurgent stronghold of Fallujah — some in open Humvees — say they've had some close calls, but "get by well" with the vehicle and body armor they have.




"I think the armor we have for the vehicles is getting better and our body armor is OK, I have nothing against it," Sgt. Aaron D'Amico said Wednesday.


Told about complaints from disgruntled soldiers who told Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld earlier Wednesday they lacked armored vehicles and other equipment, D'Amico said: "I'd definitely opt for higher production of armor but the Marines get by well with what we have."


D'Amico, 24, of Cleveland, Ohio, said his unit, the 1st Battalion of the 8th Marine Regiment, received new, upgraded vehicle armor a year ago, with Kevlar-protected seats. D'Amico's only complaint is that the open-roof Humvee provides no protection at the back.

The armor the Marines receive is "usually leftovers from the Army, the Army usually gets the better stuff," he added

more: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1515&ncid=1515&e=10&u=/afp/20041208/wl_mideast_afp/saudi_unrest_us_041208153107

[Goathead]

1. That was quick

Didn't take them long to find a killbot that would sing the praises of the Pentagon's handling of supplying the troops with armor.

[DS1]

4. Probably saw it as a chance to get a dig in at the Army

It is true that the Marines get handed down the stuff the Army doesn't want anymore, but that's mostly because of gutluss kissass Marine commanders in the Pentagon who pride ~themselves~ on doing less with more - no matter what the actual battlefield experience is like to the Marines.

[NMDemDist2]

2. it's not the regular Army or Marines that are under equipped

if you read the Rummy article, the complaints (valid ones too IMO) are from the Guard and Reserve units (40% of the current force over there)

[maddezmom]

6. true, and Rummy was asked about active-duty getting priority...his reply

During the question-and-answer session, another soldier complained that active-duty Army units sometimes get priority over the National Guard and Reserve units for the best equipment in Iraq.


"There's no way I can prove it, but I am told the Army is breaking its neck to see that there is not" discrimination against the National Guard and Reserve in terms of providing equipment, Rumsfeld said


:wtf: He's the Sec. of Defense...you'd think if anyone could "prove it" it would be him. :eyes:

[maddezmom]

10. AP 11/12/04- Army again raises requirement for armored Humvees in Iraq

~snip~
Brownlee said that at the current production rate of 450 a month he believed the Army could meet the goal of having 8,000 armored Humvees in Iraq by March 2005. He did not say how many already are there, but he said the goal of 4,000 was met in September.

In May 2003, after the fall of Baghdad but before it was clear to U.S. officials that an insurgency was developing, the Army had 235 armored Humvees in the country and they were being produced at a rate of 15 per month, Brownlee said. By September the requirement was raised to 1,000.

Brownlee said the Army also is adding armor to its truck fleet because soldiers in supply convoys are often attacked by insurgents. He said this was an illustration of how much more deadly the insurgency has proven to be than anyone in Washington believed possible in 2003.

"No one ever anticipated we'd be up-armoring our truck fleet," he said. "Nobody anticipated that we'd have to do that."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20041112-1644-iraq-usmilitary.html

No one in this Misadministration ever anticipates or plans for anything. this is a crime.

[TahitiNut]

3. What kind of armor do the 'insurgents' have?

It must be tough to deal out random death and actually be slightly vulnerable.

I remember how we 'protected' our buildings at Long Binh. We built 10' blast walls around the Data Service Center tin tilt-up (where I worked). They were made from the interlocking steel plates used to create temporary roadways across sand or mud. They were placed on end in parallel with about 2' of space that was filled with dirt. If a RPG/mortar shell ever hit inside, those blast walls would've contained the explosion and doubled or tripled the damage (and injuries).

[Why Syzygy]

5. Masters of Evasion

(Not the troops. The (ahem) brass.)

Rumsfeld said armored military vehicles have been brought to the region "from all over the world, from where they're not needed to a place they're needed."

"Something like 400 a month are being done," he said. "And it's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money. ... It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it."
(cut)
"As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want," Rumsfeld said.

He added, "You can have all the armor in the world on a tank, and it can (still) be blown up."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/08/rumsfeld.troops/

[Supersedeas]

12. 100K plus troops and the US Media finds this guy....go figure.

[gatorboy]

7. Supporting the troops my ass...

Let the spin begin! The soldiers who questioned Rummy obviously don't know what they're talking about.... :crazy:

[lebkuchen]

8. If the marines are happy with their lot in life

so am I.

[saving daylight]

9. He is a Bush supporter according to his wife

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-rumsfelds-questioner,0,5871205,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

Rumsfeld Query No Shock to Soldier's Wife

By BILL POOVEY
Associated Press Writer

December 8, 2004, 2:52 PM EST

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. -- Regina Wilson wasn't entirely surprised to see her husband, a guardsman bound for Iraq, on television Wednesday challenging Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld with a tough question.
"He is always like that," she said. "I don't think he understands the concept of biting one's tongue. It wouldn't matter if it was Bush himself standing there. He would have dissed him the same."
Army Spc. Thomas Wilson, a 31-year-old member of a Tennessee National Guard unit, asked Rumsfeld why vehicle armor is still scarce, nearly two years after the start of the war.

Wilson said her husband joined the National Guard in June 2003. He had previously enlisted in the Air Force in 1994 and served about four years, she said.

"It's all about duty, and he felt compelled to be over there," Wilson said, adding that both she and her husband voted for President Bush in November and support him "100 percent."

[qanda]

11. Well, any pity I had for him

Just went out the door.

[NMDemDist2]

13. actually I think it's great the supporters are starting to ask questions

and holding Bushco to account

[qanda]

14. I didn't say it wasn't good that he asked the question

I just don't feel sorry for him any longer-- he got what he voted for!