Bush, Rumsfeld Try to Soothe Angry U.S. Troops

[leftchick]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20041209/ts_nm/iraq_usa_rumsfeld_dc

<snip>

"The concerns expressed are being addressed, and that is, we expect our troops to have the best possible equipment. And if I were a soldier overseas, wanting to defend my country, I'd want to ask the secretary of defense the same question," Bush said.


He told reporters in an Oval Office event that he has been telling military families that "we're doing everything we possibly can to protect your loved ones in a mission which is vital and important."


Since invading Iraq last year, administration critics have accused it of failing to send adequate forces and armor to stabilize the country, allowing the current bloody insurgency to develop.


Meeting with troops in Kuwait on Wednesday, Rumsfeld heard a complaint from Spc. Thomas Wilson that U.S. forces were forced to dig up scrap metal to protect their vehicles in Iraq because of a shortage of armored ones.

[Mari333]

1. Talk is cheap, you sorry assholes. n/t

[VegasWolf]

2. Give them more shooter games. n/t

[TrustingDog]

40. or 'faith based armour'. . .

"guess you weren't praying hard enough if you got yourself all blowed up there, son."

[DireStrike]

3. "soothe", like they're babies or raging animals that don't know better

This sort of tacit shit is all over the place. It's not arguable but it's broad daylight bias.

[lovedems]

4. I received this in an email from American Progress

Rumsfeld told the troops to deal with it: "You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have a later time." Sen. Chris Dodd wrote a response to Rumsfeld stating, "You go to war with the Army that our nation's leaders provide."

There are 6,500 Humvees today without adequate protection. In a spin session later in the day, Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita conceded that as late as the fall of 2003, the military was producing just 15 armored Humvees a month, less than 4 percent of today's production capacity. According to Di Rita, one quarter of Humvees in war zones today are unarmored. The bottom line: soldiers in Iraq today don't have armored vehicles because of poor planning. Our troops deserve better.


The Bush administration provided no money for additional vehicle armor. According to testimony by the Army's Vice chief of staff late last year, the military needed 8,400 armor kits for Humvees in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush responded by submitting a budget in early 2004 that proposed nothing for Humvee armor kits.


Rumsfeld doesn't understand the dangers our troops face everyday on the ground. Rumsfeld stated yesterday that "if you think about it, you can have all the armor in the world on a tank and a tank can still be blown up. And you can have an up-armored Humvee and it can be blown up." Paul Rickhoff, a Iraq War veteran who is now with the soldiers' advocacy group Operation Truth noted, "Having the armor increases your survivability much more than not having it. For to say that is an indication of how little he understands the dangers of the battlefield," according to USA Today


They haven't done jack shit.

[jasmeel]

5. Is the military about to revolt? Wouldn't that be great?

One day they all refuse to fight this awful war....

[ragin_acadian]

23. It doesn't sound too far-fetched anymore. imo.

[JPZenger]

6. Take Rumsfeld For a Ride in an Unarmored Humvee

Since "we have to go to war with the Army we have," I think Field Marshall Von Rumsfeld should be taken on a pleasant drive through Iraq in an unarmored Humvee.

Actually, he met with U.S. troops in safe little Kuwait, not Iraq.

----

True Story from NPR: The U.S. embassy this week told its staff that is unsafe to drive from Baghdad to the Airport 10 miles away. From now on, they are required to use a helicopter.


-----

P.S. - A group of 100 service-persons who served in Iraq have formed a new organization named "Iraq Veterans Against the War." It is modeled upon John Kerry's Vietnam Vets Against the War. The leader of it was interviewed on NPR's Travis Smiley show a couple days ago.

[radar]

17. There you go...

Instead of the high-tech Secret Service detail with the expensive SUV's holding his hand - let him be shuttled around like an "average joe."

[leftchick]

68. and he is surrounded by mercs....

paid for by US taxpayers.

[Lizzie Borden]

72. I'd love to see Rummy take that ride.

[Just Me]

7. Concerns expressed a year ago have yet to be addressed!!!

Pathetic pathological liars!!!

Where's all that money going if it's not going to our troops?

HUH????

How much of the hundreds of billions delegated to the DoD and to this oil-digging war have been dished out to private crony companies?

:grr:

[PearliePoo2]

8. Bush says

"If I were a soldier overseas wanting to DEFEND my country"

What a crock! We are INVADING and occupying a country, not DEFENDING ours, ya dumb f**k!
More propaganda to spoon-feed the masses that we are just defending America.
How can people buy this shit???
Pass the Kool-Aid please.

[stevedeshazer]

21. That line caught my eye

My thoughts exactly. :grr:

My favorite Kool-Aid flavor is grape...

[Krupskaya]

31. Not only that...

...but that's a pretty big "IF" in that sentence, asshole.

[Supersedeas]

47. "If" - "wanting" - "defend" : who feeds the monkey this nonsense

It ain't "IF" - It IS about real soldiers, not hypothetical ones

It ain't about "wanting" - the Pres does not want an honest answer to that question - it might be about following orders.

*reminder* Mr. President, you chose not to be stationed overseas.

It ain't about "defending" - Iraq was not threatening us...at most, they were preparing the papers of a 'gathering' threat in some indefinite future.

But, the Media seems to be satisfied with the Presidents little dismissive, back to Peterson Peterson Peterson and the parents who are on strike.

[King Coal]

39. You mean Flavor Aid

The Jim Jones gang drank Flavor Aid.

[leftchick]

74. flavor aid?

really?

[TahitiNut]

75. The brand is in dispute.

"Congressman Ryan and four others were killed; three were members of the press; the other was a person from Jonestown who wanted to leave. 11 were wounded. Fearing retribution, the project members discuss their options. They reach a consensus to commit group suicide. 914 died: 638 adults and 276 children. Some sources say 911 died. Most appear to have committed suicide by drinking a grape drink laced with cyanide and a number of sedatives, including liquid Valium, Penegram and chloral hydrate. Some sources say it was Kool-Aid; others say FlaVor-Aid®. Other victims appear to have been murdered by poison injection. The Guyanese coroner said that hundreds of bodies showed needle marks, indicating foul play. Still other victims were shot. A very few fled into the jungle and survived. The bodies were in a state of extensive decay when the authorities arrived. There was no time to conduct a thorough investigation."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_jones.htm


"Jones then founded Jonestown in Guyana; the town was a closed-in society of Jones' followers, where Jim Jones and all of Jonestown committed suicide or murder on Jones's instructions by drinking cyanide-laced Flavor Aid (a cheaper version of Kool-Aid, with which it is often confused in this particular situation) in 1978 and shooting each other to death."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

[LynnTheDem]

80. MUST keep the 60% bushbots who STILL think Iraq did 911 STILL thinking it

Coz HOOOBOY if THEY ever wake up to the FACT that Iraq had NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH 911, a lot of them 60% might just get some INTEGRITY and be MIGHTY PISSED OFF at bush the impLiar.

[hadrons]

9. check this Freeper-like post ...

Here I’ve been supporting the troops these past couple of years with a flag pin lapel on my suit and Bush Cheney bumper sticker on my SUV and look at the ingratitude.

It's a war you pussies. You want armor. Wait in line. We have more important shit to produce in this country. Rumsfeld was too nice to these guys. They should be court martialed for insubordination.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/rnr/51748281.html

"supporting the troops ... as long as it just involves a cheap pin and a Chimp sticker

[bluedeminredstate]

16. "Supporting" the troops

with a pin and a bumpersticker. Who gives a shit if their limbs are blown off, right? Who cares if they have the equipment they need to keep themselves safe? You got that sticker on your car - you're covered.
I'd love for the person who wrote this to have a recruiter come to his door and FORCE him to enlist, then send his ass off to Bagdad where he can do neighborhood patrols. Let's see how f**king "grateful" he'll feel about the gear he's given.

[Just Me]

20. Was s/he being facetious?

The We have more important shit to produce in this countryline gives it a sarcastic quality.

[ragin_acadian]

24. Maybe he should have prayed the bullets away.

[ismnotwasm]

26. That makes me want to puke

And one of the reasons I have to avoid assholes like that. My Daughter is in Afghanistan. She is regular army, eight years in serving her country. She knew that being in the army meant the possibility of going to war. All soldiers are trained for that I believe.(sarcasm) But she also expected sane leaders with adequate support. I'm scared to death, the more I hear about this shit. I hope I never hear anything like that from someone in person because I'm so angry right now they may be performing certain body functions out of new orifices....

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. WTF?

"They should be court martialed for insubordination." For asking why they have to dig through the scrap pile for armor for their Humvee? :wtf: Why doesn't Mr. "flag pin/BC bumper sticker" Troop supporter get his ass over to Iraq and take a ride in an unarmored Humvee?

[Candide]

32. OMG

that is disgusting. Is that for real???? How could anyone be such a closed minded, ignorant, self centered prick???? aaaaaarrrggghh!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

45. What a dipsh*t!

Why don't you support the troops by taking you and your flag pin over yonder to Iraq? F*cking Freeps!:grr:

[Ilsa]

53. I love it when these insensitive dumbshits speak out.

It shows how little they really care, as long as they are getting their new Humvee to drive around Dallas in.

[Bouncy Ball]

60. Oh. My. God.

THAT is some of the worst, most vile bullshit I have ever seen from a freeper and THAT is saying a lot.

So. This guy thinks he's all hot shit because he puts a little fucking PIN on his LAPEL?

Well WHOOPADEEDOO asshole! Anyone can put a fucking bumper sticker or a pin on their lapel! You think that just makes you some kind of A #1 supporter of the troops, huh, you asshole?

I would SO LOVE to see the guy who wrote that have his sorry ass shipped over to Iraq post haste and see how fast he's crying and whimpering to get him out of there. He'd be killed in an instant.

We have more IMPORTANT shit to produce?????? Oh my God, they truly don't support the troops at aLL. They support them as long as they keep their mouths shut and fight Commander Fulldiaper's fucked up immoral wars so they can jack off over the idea of brown-skinned people getting killed.

But the moment a soldier asks a legitimate question he's going to wet his pants, shit his drawers and take off his lapel pin and bumper sticker in a little tempter tantrum?

That guy is SCUM. Nothing but SCUM. Ship his ass over there.

[distantearlywarning]

62. One word: ENLIST! n/t

[enki23]

67. that's a joke. it's too blatant not to be.

.

[louis-t]

10. 'Miserable failure' sez:

"And if I were a soldier overseas, wanting to defend my country,I'd want to ask the secretary of defense the same question," Bush said (through clenched teeth). But you never would be a soldier (you just want to play one on TV) and you never would be "wanting to defend your country" you asshole. Sissypants can't stand to be challenged. You know he hates this stuff.

[Demeter]

11. Self-Destruction: It's Schaudenfreude Time!

The more I consider the Bushites, the more I have to think the election was stolen, or the population converted to zombies. There isn't any other reasonable excuse for this situation.

[Rose Siding]

12. I'd sooner depend on a PTA with a budget and a phone bank

to get armor to Iraq. I'd even spot them a couple of months. The US govt has had 3 years.

He's a liar: "we're doing everything we possibly can". It's hard!

[VegasWolf]

13. Only Girlie Men need armour. n/t

[GreenArrow]

27. body armor is a GOD-given right!

.

[Catfight]

14. Excuses vs. Explanations, this administration is a failure and the

hole keeps getting deeper. Fire Rumsfield and get some credible competent people in the cabinet.

[Oreo]

18. And who would pick them?

You have an incompetent president picking incompetent cabinet members. Do you think by sacking rummy, they'd find somebody that would be any better? Worked wonders for homeland security...

[Oreo]

15. It's not just the humvees

Although the pentagon is only referring to humvees, I think the conviys are in question too. So they put the unarmored humvees on tranport trucks. What about the troops driving those trucks?

[Deja Q]

19. It looks like * is trying to lie in front of some hedgehogs.

[ragin_acadian]

22. "And if I were a soldier overseas, wanting to defend my country,"

Well, you weren't and you didn't. Daddy bought you out, and you couldn't roll out of the sack to report.

[GreenArrow]

25. I have to agree with Der Rummer on this one

the troops should understand that theirs "is not to reason why, theirs is but to do or die." They are fodder, replaceable pawns, that's all.

The troops should be angry, but they are angry for the wrong reasons. I understand they want to protect themselves, and get home in one piece, but if they were really fighting for "freedom" in a genuinely "vital and important mission" they wouldn't be whining about their equipment; they would make do with what they had because their cause was right. The cause they are fighting for isn't right.

[spartan61]

28. Is this true?

I heard that the soldier who asked rummy about the armor needed for their vehicles has been demoted in rank. If this is true, we need to get busy writing letters to congress and the media about this. Nothing this administration does surprises me. They are evil!!

[lakelly]

34. Say it isn't so.

Of please, please, tell me this is just an urban legend. I really don't want to believe its true. With this admin nothing would surprise me any more (immoral, unethical,sacks of sh*t that they are)Can anyone out there validate the demotion story?

[BrotherBuzz]

51. Demoted?

He served four years in the Air Force from in 1994-98 before joining the National Guard in June 2003. I don't think he will be demoted, rather I think he showed some spine and is quality NCO material that is ready for promotion.

[fryguy]

30. I guess in this White House....

"the buck stops over there...."

[ernstbass]

33. They can never wash the blood from their hands

of the 100,000 dead Iraqis and 1200 soldiers who died for nothing!!!!!

[barb162]

38. exactly, but do you think these sociopaths are losing any sleep

over it? I don't...they don't give a shit. I think the only thing Rummie had going on in his mind at the time he was getting those questions was he was embarrassed at appearing incompetent in front of world news. He doesn't care about how many deaths have been caused on both sides.

[barb162]

35. I enjoyed watching Rummie squirm, that POS. There is no excuse

for the troops not to have the hardware they need to protect themselves.

[CornField]

36. if I were a soldier overseas, wanting to defend my country

Like he'd fucking know anything about that. :eyes: Hypocrite

[fryguy]

37. what does chimp know about being a solider overseas?

farcical to hear him trying to emphasize with the poor men and women who he's condemned to being in harms way while he avoided service when called

[Seabiscuit]

41. What on earth is wrong with Dubya's lip muscles?

Why are they always puckering up and out like a chimp's everytime he speaks in front of a camera?

He's got to be the only person on this planet that does that.

[truth2power]

57. LOL!! Curious, isn't it? eom

[Seabiscuit]

69. "Curious" George. What a FREAK!

[cliss]

77. Somebody here wrote that Bush

has a "guppy mouth". Like those cute little fish (THEY'RE cute, Bush isn't).

Sorry, I'd quote you if I remembered who it was.

[genieroze]

42. The troops must know how Bushco really feels about them now.

Can you say cannon fodder?

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

81. deleted my post.

[atommom]

43. So Rummy belatedly realised that he sounded like an ass?

Or, more likely, was told that he needed to tone down his response a tad to come across as a "compassionate conservative." I still don't believe that GW or Rummy give a rat's ass about the safety of our troops, as long as we still have enough of them. :eyes: The troops, like most of the American public, are only valued for whatever the administration can get out of them.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

44. THE TROOPS ARE NOT SUPPORTING THE TROOPS

*sarcasm off*:evilgrin:

[not fooled]

46. Some points...

...to refute those simpletons who defend assorted POS in the admin and their bungling of the war: From Bernie Ward's show last night:

1. the psychopaths planned for this war for at least a year. If they gave a rat's ass about protecting the soldiers, they had plenty of time to do something about it before invading.

2. as anyone with a functioning brain (well, -51% of the nation, apparently) knows by now, there was no urgent need to go in when they did. They could have waited to invade until the soldiers had adequate armor (except for the fact that had they waited, the UN would have had enough time to release a report stating that there were no WMD, so they undoubtedly wanted to rush in before the truth became known).

3. the war has been going on now for almost 2 yrs. Plenty of time to fix things if they really wanted to. Does anyone believe that the US couldn't have produced enough armor by now if the admin made it a priority? Instead, the DOD is too busy funding expensive gewgaws like Star Wars and esoteric high-tech equipment.

4. Just keep the economy in the tank. That way, poor and middle class kids will have to keep joining the military because there is no other choice. Economic draft = plenty of cannon fodder.

5. untold ways they are screwing soldiers in terms of pay & benefits--one example: DOD prefers getting fresh meat through the Natl Guard because then they don't have to pay health insurance after. Much cheaper that way. Many more examples (returning soldiers homeless, etc.). Disgusting.

6. Oh yeah, and you can't blame this one on Clinton (not that they don't try). Rumsfailed is the one who wanted to go in "quick and cheap" to demonstrate that they could Hitlerize (invade, take over) more countries with fewer resources. His incompetence and bungling led to this mess.

[Massachusetts]

49. You are

Correct Sir.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[MADem]

82. Yep!!!!!!!!!! (Are you the ghost of Phil Hartmann???)

And shades of odd irony--the HUMVEE was originally designed as a lightweight, all terrain, NON-armored TRANSPORT vehicle--kinda like an UNARMORED personnel carrier. Ya know, ya gotta get a buncha guys from Point A to Point B, with no issues--it's sturdy, can go through ravines and bad roads and whatnot, off ya go, matey!

Lipstick on a pig? Armor on a HUMVEE. They were not designed to do the job they are now doing. But let's not talk about something more suitable--it'll be that Kelsey Grammer film (PENTAGON WARS--one of the best things that Fraiser the Republican ever did) all over again. Who can waste the most money for the least crap?

Course, that's a different story entirely! Or is it..........

[Sydnie]

64. Let's think back to WWII

Didn't we see the need then? Didn't we retool factories as quickly as we could to manufacture the equipment needed to supply the troops and keep them as safe as we could? We (as a nation) became invested in the outcome and all sacrificed in our own homes, in our own communities and as a nation as a whole. We believed in the cause and no sacrifice was too great.

This war ... they can't be bothered to ask private business to stop making cheap "trinkets" and make something that would protect a soldiers life.

Producing as fast as we can, my ass! All that blubbering and blustering and bloviating during the campaign about Kerry's $87 million vote and here Bushtard is sitting on the money and not spending it after all that lip service. It makes me sick!!!!

Kiss my ass Rummy boy! Remember, what goes up must come down ... and some day you will be out of power and will have to answer for your actions!

[cliss]

79. How true. Stan Goff

has quoted an old Haitian saying, "The further the monkey climbs up in the tree, the more you see nothing but his ass".

[KingChicken]

48. the dumbass will send a wing and a prayer, faith based protection.

I'm sure everything will work out if we just have some blind faith.

[Sydnie]

63. And we all know how well that worked for Joan of Arc! n/t

[burn the bush]

50. with all those microphones, it looks like Monkey reaching for coconuts!

[Solly Mack]

52. That's lie number what? Too may to count

If he were a soldier overseas...he would ask the sec. of defense to tell his daddy to bring him home

[bear425]

54. "All your microphones are belong to us." (captioning the pic) n/t

[deutsey]

56. Or: "Bush Pleads for Life as Angry Tribbles Attack"

[Steely_Dan]

65. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I got it....

[kitchen girl]

76. My first impression, too. n/t

[patomime]

55. Yeah ....

I would want to ask the same question, yeah, right!

What a dingbat. Cover up somemore - dipwad!!!!

[Skittles]

58. BUSH IS A F***ING ASSHOLE

God DAMN it sickens me to hear him talking about "protecting" our troops - the VERY SOLIDERS THE BASTARD LIED TO SEND TO WAR.

[Bouncy Ball]

59. Check out this quote from Rummy in the article:

"I don't know what the facts are but somebody's certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know, and make sure he knows what they know that he may not know, and that's a good thing. I think it's a very constructive exchange," Rumsfeld told reporters traveling with him on Thursday in India, another stop on a regional tour.


WTF does that MEAN????? Does he ALWAYS talk like that? Geez. THIS one can't speak English either, just like his boss.

And if bush were an officer serving overseas right now? There's a word for what might happen to an arrogant asshole like him. FRAGGING.

[neweurope]

61. Nothing wrong with his English. He just makes sure he won't

be asked too many questions :(

[atommom]

66. So he thinks "someone" should get to know the unknown unknowns, and make

the known unknowns known? Or does he just know that we no longer know what's known, what's unknown, or what happened to that unknown soldier. I have a headache. Think I'd better go lie down now. x(

[leftchick]

70. "Does he ALWAYS talk like that? "

yes indeedy! It is called rummyspeak and it means nothing!

[radar]

71. Old Story

Same Shit Different Day - they just got caught on camera screwing the soldiers yesterday

Link from Slate

Hummer Bummer
Why is the White House underfunding armored Humvees?
By Eric Umansky Posted Wednesday, Feb. 18, 2004, at 3:43 PM PT
http://slate.msn.com/id/2095705

...And...

"It turns out that the reason armor is being produced so slowly is that despite being told that production is only at ~75% of capacity, the Pentagon hasn’t asked for it to be produced faster"

what price physics?
http://www.reachm.com/amstreet/archives/2004/12/09/what-price-physics/

[CaptainCorc]

73. In World War II soldiers discovered that the Sherman tank

was woefully undergunned and underarmored. That's why you see pictures of those tanks with sandbags all over them. (As to the undergunned part, they sometimes put big pipes over the gun to make it look bigger).

Am I suggesting that our soldiers should use sandbags? Hell no. How about strapping Republicans to their Humvees to absorb the shells? That would be a demonstration of the ingenuity and improvisation that US soldiers are famous for.

[LynnTheDem]

78. So bush; 3 YRS LATER...have you PLACED THE ORDER YET for armored humvees??

Coz today the manufacturer says YOU HAVEN'T.