Alabama voters deal resounding defeat to record tax hike

[midnight armadillo]

Alabama voters deal resounding defeat to record tax hike

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) Gov. Bob Riley's $1.2 billion tax package was rejected overwhelmingly Tuesday night as voters agreed with those who said Alabama needs spending cuts rather than the largest tax increase in state history.

With 39 percent of precincts reporting, 342,058, or 66 percent, opposed the plan while 173,565, or 34 percent, voted for it.
<snip>
Riley repeatedly told voters in last year's election for governor that he never supported a tax increase during his six years as a congressman. But when he became governor in January, he said he ''had no choice'' in proposing a tax increase to alleviate the state's worst budget deficit since the Great Depression. Without a tax hike, he said, budget cuts would be so deep that state government wouldn't function.
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They have a $659 million shortfall now to make up. The position of the Alamabama gov on this was fascinating: he decided that being a Christian means taxing the well-to-do more in order to ease taxes on the poor and provide necessary gov services. Many Christian groups disagreed, many agreed. There's a fascinating article on all this that was published somewhere about the woman who started this...can't remember where I read it...

[pasadenaboy]

1. here's a link

http://www.law.ua.edu/directory/bio/shamill.html

[Liberator_Rev]

41. That's a great link, and here's another:

Prof. Susan Hamill has done a great job on the legal front. Here's a great site regarding the religious grounds for just tax policies that the millions of "Christians" in Alabama need to ponder:
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/GODvsGreed .


See what Christ might say about the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" imposters.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. I wish that third tablet had not broken with the other five commandments

YOu know : Thou shalt not fuck the poor was on that one.

[madmax]

6. LOL good one

Don't you just love their compassion.

[mbperrin]

3. Uh, lessee, either

"Do unto others" or "I got mine!"

Hmmmm...............now that wasn't so hard, was it?

After all, Jesus is DEAD and he'll never know the difference, and I really NEED that new Hummer!!!!

[mbperrin]

4. Oops! Forgot to add

after all the horsesh*t cuts we've made in Texas, I was a little worried about sinking to dead last in all categories!!

Thank God for Alabama!

[Bush_has_Parvo]

5. What's so sad is poor people were against the tax hike

when it could directly benefit them. See how insidious the right wing hate media machine is? They have a stranglehold on the South, and uneducated people actually believe the lies they spew.

[RobertSeattle]

7. I'd love to eventually see the stats

How true is the right wing assertion that the poor often won't vote for tax increases that would effect the rich because of the wonderful wish that they'll be rich some day? ("I might win the Lotto mext Saturday Night so I better not vote for a tax increase")

Moronic, but I suppose it is true.

[mbperrin]

10. Here in West Texas

poor people are regularly told by their employers when considering bond issues and such that these taxes will cost THEM money. I never heard of a hope that they would someday be rich - they don't get the disconnect.

BTW, that's how Prop 12 in Texas is being pushed (limits on suits for pain and suffering) as a "keep your insurance rates from going up" thing!

I've lived here all my life and have seen it happen every time!

[T Bone]

27. Well, the poor and lower middle class there better be getting rich soon

because their government services are about to disappear. This would be interesting to watch if it wasn't so sad.

[E Pluribus Unum]

46. Why proposal was defeated

I think the new sales tax on services was the main reason
that the poor voted against the bill. These new taxes
would have been on most services. The states 4% taxe on services
would allow the cities to pile on the taxes also. We now
pay 9% sales tax on products here in Mobile. A 9% tax
on services would hit the poor hard and they new it.

[AlabamaYankee]

49. I would suggest a poisonous mistrust of the whole process

From my perspective it failed for a variety of reasons. First, Riley, being an aristocratic landowning Republican had no clue as to how to sell it to the middle and lower classes, and particularly the African American community. His advisors were men from the same elite; most of us volunteers were white and middle class; he vetoed a bill to restore voting rights to felons, whin infuraited the Black leaders. In addition, the whoe package had a lot of little pieces. It was a complex thing to sell.

That said, the opponants' message was simple: "Taxes Bad!" The tax on services, which almost every other state has, is small potatoes compared to the overall sales tax burden, but it was visible. The opposition exploited it, and used talking points that ranged from misinformation to downright lies to hammer home the "taxes bad" message. The other half of their strategy was their manipulation of the well earned distrust of the legislature as a pack of corrupt greedy lying bastards (except for mine, of course). I frequently heard people I talked to use almost identical language, saying that Montgomery mismanages what we send them now, so we shouldn't send them another dime. No specifics, of course. Many seriously feel that theirs is one of the heaviest tax burdens in the country

The civic self esteem of this state is lower than whale shit, and the power elite encourage this. It is a sad and dysfunctional thing.


Alabama: Mediocre, and proud of it.

[Dem4EverMore]

8. That sucks

The well off had a chance to share their wealth and blew it. AL needs to enbrace the democratic way and help those in need. How long before Dems can retake AL?

[toopers]

13. How did they blow it?

Did they withold taxes? Just wondering.

[E Pluribus Unum]

47. What are you talking about?

We have had a Demacrat controlled state government
for 25 years. There has been three republican governors in all those years. The first one (forgot his name) was removed
from office for spending personaly his capaign donations

[Lindacooks]

9. And then when the cuts happen...

There will be a roar of whiners, saying 'why did they cut MYYYYY programmmmmm????'

[TreasonousBastard]

11. Assholes!

But, California's been doing the same thing for years. A bunch of other states, too.

The trick is to hide the cuts so nothing's obvious. And then just lie, lie, lie.

[Dhalgren]

18. They won't be able to hide cuts in Alabama.

There's no where to hide. The state is flat-assed broke. The school system needs something like 300million dollars to come up to par, now, without the tax hike, this fall an additional 350 million is being cut from the budget. They are talking about massive lay-offs of support personnel and reducing the school week to four days. You know Forrest's mother was right: "stupid is as stupid does." I am trying very hard not to vent at these slobbering, inbred, reactionary, republican, bootlicking fools in this state. How am I doin'?

[paulk]

12. looks like they've made their bed...

now they're gonna have to lie in it.

[rocketdem]

14. This is what happens when...

...Repugs year after year, election after election, indoctrinate the voters into believing that everything that government does it does poorly. Year after year they scream, make government smaller never realizing that 'government' means such things as school programs and state police.

Riley got himself elected on this very platform. Over and over he touted his unquestioning and unbridled support of Bush's tax cuts and lambasted the incumbent Democrat for being wasteful and irresponsible. He didn't exactly say, no new taxes, but he implied it over and over. Then, after he takes office and actually has to govern he figures out, damn, maybe we do need some money to run the state.

I live in Alabama. I live here because of my job and I love my job. I am glad that I have no kids because I would have to give up my job and move to another state so they could get a decent education.

Tomorrow, the cuts begin. I hope that the first thing that they cut is every damn high school football program in the state. They have kids attending class in trailers but can afford great big lighted football stadiums galore because, after all, right behind worshipping Roy Moore, football is the next most popular religion.

Excuse me for going on but I'm pissed. I knew that it was coming and I'm still pissed. The poorest people in this state pay, on a percentage basis, four times what the wealthiest pay in income tax. Property taxes are a joke. You could triple my property tax and I'd still be the envy of everyone else in my family who live in the civilized Northeast. And, of course, to make up the difference we pay the most regressive of taxes, sales tax, on everything including food and clothing.

So the poor would have made out with the bill and they were the ones who most voted against it. People with kids in school would have benefitted as well and they voted against it. At some point I'm just going to throw up my hands and say the hell with it. If you people want to live in a sewer, you're welcome to it.

[TahitiNut]

15. Yup. Read all about it ...

from ITEP... "Alabama Taxes Hit Poor & Middle Class Far Harder than the Wealthy"

Alabama’s Tax Code: Soak the Poor and Middle Class, Spare the Wealthy
When all Alabama taxes are totaled up, the study found that:

• Alabama families earning less than $13,000 — the poorest fifth of Alabama non-elderly taxpayers — pay 10.6% of their income in Alabama state and local taxes.
• Middle-income Alabama taxpayers — those earning between $21,000 and $36,000 — pay 9.8% of their income in Alabama state and local taxes.
• But the richest Alabama taxpayers — with average incomes of $682,000 — pay only 4.9% of their income in Alabama state and local taxes before taking account of tax savings from federal itemized deductions, and only 3.8% after the federal offset.

The study found that Alabama taxes are particularly regressive because the state’s personal income tax actually levies a lower rate on wealthy taxpayers than middle income taxpayers — and therefore only compounds the regressivity of the state’s sales and excise taxes.

<more..>

Property taxes in Alabama are only 8% of the state & local tax revenues. :eyes: (Shit schools anyone?)

[Dem4EverMore]

16. This sucks

Is there any way to force the richer to help pay the way for the less wealthy? There must be some kind of filibuster or other means to get them to pay up.

[TahitiNut]

17. Halloween in Alabama:

"Fuck the Poor!" :eyes:

[Dhalgren]

20. I have lived my whole life

in this state - was born here - and I completely agree with your sentiments. To hear these morons talk about "raisin' mah taxes" sickens me. I am not a violent person, but when I see the abject poverty of a huge portion of this state's population and then see that very same population vote against their own interests...I really want to punch someone! (And I have a list of candidates!)

[sandnsea]

29. Well I'm sorry for you

And please don't think my little rant below is directed at you.

I have family in Arkansas, and they complain about these sorts of things all the time. I really feel for you. I love my family, but I was there from Sept - Nov, one time, and had to get my kids out! It is so discouraging.

[w4rma]

19. The biggest reason it failed to pass was it's size and complexity, IMHO

The tax bill was "target rich". This was a total overhall of the Alabama tax system. Riley should should put a tax shift up for vote. One that hikes (for the wealthiest) the same amount of taxes that it cuts (for the middle and lower classes).

[neverforget]

21. Well at least the rich can take their money with them when they die.

:eyes:

[Stuckinthebush]

22. Freakin' amazing!

My fellow Alabamians are the stupidest creatures on earth.

An amazing fact - the individuals who supported this thing were the ones that would pay more in taxes and who live in communities where the property tax lid law would hurt their schools. They supported it because it was the right thing to do. The people who opposed it were people that it would not hurt as much or would help.

Ahhhhhh! That place on my wall that I reserve for banging my head is getting bigger.

[kentuck]

23. That's why it is nonsense when they start talking about percent of GDP..

Yeah, but how you gonna get it from the people?? Huh? And that is why George W Bush's upcoming deficits of $1 trillion a year are going to be so devastating...When we add the Social Security funds and the $87 billion he is now asking for, we're up to about $750 billion already...

[stickdog]

24. Sweet Home Talibama

Oh Alabama
The devil fools
with the best laid plan.
Swing low Alabama
You got spare change
You got to feel strange
And now the moment
is all that it meant.

Alabama, you got
the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back.
Your Cadillac
has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track

Oh Alabama
Banjos playing
through the broken glass
Windows down in Alabama.
See the old folks
tied in white ropes
Hear the banjo.
Don't it take you down home?

Alabama, you got
the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back.
Your Cadillac
has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track

Oh Alabama.
Can I see you
and shake your hand.
Make friends down in Alabama.
I'm from a new land
I come to you
and see all this ruin
What are you doing Alabama?
You got the rest of the union
to help you along
What's going wrong?

[Classical_Liberal]

25. Southern States require a meltdown

like in Tennessee before they learn, not to listen to the SBC preacher.

[QC]

26. Here's how Riley can get it passed on a second try--

Eliminate the sales tax on food and medicine and make that the centerpiece of the plan. The sales tax here is the most onerous one, and everybody complains about it. It's also the reason we can't fund schools consistently.

If Riley does that, then practically everyone will vote for it.

Of course, getting real reform here (beyond dealing with the sales tax) will require campaign finance reform. There are no limits on contributions here, so practically every elected official in the state is owned by one or more interest groups. Our elections are nothing more than auctions.

[Classical_Liberal]

31. Possibly

but it is really hard to overcome years of habit, and it is simply dogma there that you don't tax rich people, and the rich people make lot's of contributions to the Christian Coalition to make sure the poor get the message. It is also more difficult for a republican to do this than a democrat. The repukes view him as a traitor and they want to make an example of him. I'll bet tons of out of state cash went into the ad campaign.

[Romberry]

33. I am in Alabama. There will be no second try

When Riley'w political director told the Philadelphia Inquier that "People in Alabama are too stupid to know what is good for them" he was absolutely 100% correct.

Riley's political career is over. The least among us (in Alabama) wil bear the brunt. As far as I'm concerned, the best thing that could happen to this state would be to turn it into a practice bombing range.

[LizW]

37. Tax on food and medicine

There was lots of talk when this plan was being written about removing sales tax on food and medicine. I never understood why that didn't get included. If it was too expensive, why didn't they leave out something else? The college scholarships, for example. Free college for everyone would be great, but helping the very poorest of the poor afford basic necessities should come first.

The goal of this plan was poorly communicated. Were we trying to make Alabama's tax system fairer, or were we trying to increase revenues for a broke state? The "fair tax" aspect was all we heard about from the proponents, and the opponents countered with a barrage of information about how massive the tax increase was. There was no way to compare the information from the two sides, because they were talking about two different things.

Unearmarking was a big mistake in the plan. The proponents kept repeating that we earmark a far greater percentage of state revenue than other states, but the sad fact is that people in Alabama do not trust the legislature to adequately fund public education without earmarking. What is done in other states is immaterial. We have to deal with the coin-operated legislature we have. The average citizen feels powerless next to lobbyists who are allowed to hand out checks to legislators right in the State House corridors before a vote.

I don't know the answer. I would like to think a smaller property tax increase paired with fairer taxation for the poor would pass, but I think the large land owners and timber companies would even fight that.

[QC]

39. I don't understand that either.

I figured that changing the sales tax would have been at the top of the agenda, judging from the talk early on. Somehow it got dropped.

And I think you're right about people not trusting the legislature. They have good reason not to. The Alabama legislature has a talent second to none for wasting money, enriching themselves at public expense, and the like.

I'm sad to see this fail, though, because it will be a long time before anyone tries tax reform again.

[sandnsea]

28. Dumb fucks, that's all I can

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb FUCKS. And apparently they just want to stay that way. This just pisses me off no end. The kids are suffering because their parents are dumb fucks because their parents got no education and grew up to be dumb fucks and now their kids are going to grow up to be dumb fucks and on and on and on it goes. Yeeha!

[area51]

30. question about Ala. voting

Does Ala. have Diebold (or another co.) touchscreen voting machines?


"Statistically speaking, it's easier to get admitted into Harvard University than to get a job in this economy."

--CBS News, 8/1/03

[LizW]

35. ES&S where I vote

Brand new optical scanners. I noticed that the machines were set to reject ballots with stray marks, because a man in front of me had a problem and the machine kept spitting his ballot back out.

I always thought it was funny that the ballot warns you to completely erase any mistakes or changes or stray marks, but they gave us eraserless golf pencils to mark with. Yesterday, it was even worse: they gave us only ball point pens. What happens if you mess up or drop your pen and make a stray mark? How do you fix the ballot so the machine will take it?

[jos]

32. Pathetic

That's all I have to say.

[Romberry]

34. I live in Alabama

Eight miles outside of Selma. I worked on this all day yesterday with GOTV activites and handing out leaflets. Hoping against hope that people would ignore the demagogues and do the right thing. Sad, sad day.

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

36. Once a 49er, always a 49er.

And I ain't talking football

[hatrack]

38. Well, I hope they all have a low-tax good time starting today

With a current budget that allows for six state troopers on the road statewide between the hours of midnight and 6:00 AM, one can only imagine what will happen when the cuts begin in earnest.

If you hear high-pitched whining and squealing in the distance during the next few weeks of cutbacks, you'll know its source.

Have fun, y'all!

[jody]

40. Riley promised "accountability" but he didn't offer specific

ways to improve education, just empty talk as cited in the article "The Republican governor promoted the tax package the largest percentage tax boost proposed in any state as the way to get Alabama off the bottom of many national education rankings."

Alabamians don't trust politicians and the education department doesn't have a clue about ways to improve student performance. Analysis of recent test scores show that spending more money per student will not improve student performance. "Test scores" and "money spent per student" have a correlation of about .09.

A pox on both Republicans and Democrats. Alabama is poorly governed. :shrug:

[David__77]

42. Victory of feudalism.

How unfortunate. But I don't know if Riley really pushed it as well as he could have. Interesting case study. Too bad for the poor people of that state.

[sujan]

43. Christians reject tax hike

[Bandit]

44. "so deep that state government wouldn't function."

Exactly. GOP hates the government. Why would they want it to function?

[lifelong_Dem]

45. A big part of the reason this initative failed is because...

...supposedly "liberal" interest didn't lift a finger to help it along. Read all about it:

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030908&s=trb090803

This is shameful. I guess they thought it was more important to hang a conservative Republican governor out to dry than it was to actually help poor and working people.

[Liberator_Rev]

48. DU wouldn't even publish my article urging Liberal intervention.

I didn't get any aknowledgement from DU when I submitted the article, 3 weeks before the vote, nor when I asked Skinner & others about it a week later.