France and Germany seek full UN control over Iraq

[Khephra]

Patrick Wintour, chief political correspondent
Wednesday September 10, 2003
The Guardian

France and Germany will back the new UN resolution on Iraq sought by President George Bush only if the proposal gives the UN full political rule over the country.

The countries have also demanded a clear programme for returning power to Iraqis.

The high price sought by the French suggests that Mr Bush is going to struggle to win UN agreement ahead of his planned speech to the security council on September 24. Foreign ministers of the five permanent members are due to meet the UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, in Geneva this weekend to try to find common ground.

Paris wants the UN to run Iraq temporarily on the model of Afghanistan, but insists its proposals do not represent an attempt to settle scores over the unilateral action by the US and Britain in Iraq.

more..............

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1039010,00.html

[dutchdemocrat]

1. Let the UN take over

Save lives and don't gut the treasury. Bring some of the lads home...

If Bushco fights this, they are really showing true colour.

This is fair. Let the UN run the show!

They will all battle over the spoils at any rate. It will just be 'democratic' piracy in the UN theatre. And everyone gets to play.

[dusty64]

23. Exactly. I think they

know our regime will NEVER agree to this as it will end their ability to enrich their donors with the blood of American and Iraqi kids.

[Zero Gravitas]

26. UN

Full control of the military and re-construction efforts in Iraq is the right thing to do. The Bush regime will never agree to that though (and I suspect France and Germany know that). The US will have to pay the full price for Former Governor Bush's mistake until President Clark/Kerry/Dean/Clinton takes office in Jan 2005.

[joanski01]

2. I can still recall Rumsfeld

saying at an earlier Armed Services Committee hearing that "We don't want anybody's territory and we don't want anybody's oil". If that was a true statement, they will let the UN take over. I don't see that happening -- unless the buggers get impeached.

[Paschall]

3. I think the US will still be expected...

...to provide the largest number of troops. Remember ShrubCo's objection to the International Criminal Court? They pulled out because they feared the "politicizing" of charges brought against our soldiers.

I don't believe Shrub will allow US troops to be deployed when all political power is in the hands of the UN and the Iraqis--and even if France and Germany "accept the authority of the 25-strong governing council of Iraq, even though its membership was largely handpicked by the Anglo-US provisional authority."

This is going to be one hell of a negotiation.

Good to see you again, joanski01! :hi:

[izzie]

5. I think it is Bush's way or none.

We are like the bull in the china shop and Bush has set it going. Maybe some one can get to this man and tell him he is not God and the country is not his little toy to do as he wishes with. Where is congress and some guts.I can not believe that even Gop has turned over their rights to this zealot.If he gets enough power he will turn on them also. Party men will fall if they get in Bush's way.

[NashVegas]

20. Aye

If * loses this pissing match, his presidency is over and he knows it. His energy company campaign contributors did not sign on to get at that oil, only to compete against foreign entities.

[tkmorris]

4. We can make hay of this

Look we all know that the Bushies are totally full of shit when they speak of "liberation" and turning over control of Iraq to the Iraqis. Your average American doofus though doesn't.

If the Bushies meant what they say there'd be no reason NOT to turn the whole shebang over to the UN. Our only purpose was to liberate Iraq from Saddam right? Mission accomplished. Turn it over to the UN and bring our boys home.

What's that George? You say we CAN'T turn it over to the UN? Why is that? Please explain why George, and do it in little words so we can all understand you. Not that you could handle any other kind.

Seriously, what are they gonna say? That they can't turn it over to the UN because........what? The oil? That belongs to the Iraqis yes? What possible reason could they have?

I say we push and push HARD to make em let the UN take over. To fight that they are gonna be forced to explain why they don't want to and there are no good answers for that. At least not ones they want your average American to hear. Fuck em, make em spell it out.

[cmd]

6. It's the logical way out

The UN should take over. The US should have to pay for breakage.

[leftchick]

7. yes indeed it is, so you know

the logic-less misadministration will never do it.....

[lumpy]

8. You would think Bushco would be willing to take

advantage of this offer. They won't get a better deal elsewhere. Of course the US should pay for the 'breakage' and reparations for the killing of innocent lives/ broken families as well and continue the deployment of US military. Those in the US who supported this farce should be made to realize the folly of this ill-advised action.

[MaineDem]

9. It's the right thing to do

We should provide for most of the cost, both in $$ and troops. I don't like it but whistle ass got us into it and we have to live up to our obligations. The UN should have control and Bush knows it. It would be an admission of failure for him to admit that so it'll never happen. :(

Edited to correct my grammar stupidity.

[DannyRed]

11. Where in Maine, MaineDem?

I am from Whitefield. Know it?

Course I am now in Tokyo, but that's a different story...

[MaineDem]

12. Sure, I know it

In fact, I drove through there on Monday. I'm near Sugarloaf in the western mountains.

And welcome to DU! :hi:

[DannyRed]

13. Oh man am I soooo jealous.

I worked there for a season...washing dishes at The Bag and skiing my brains (the ones that were not saturated in THC) out.

I lived in Starks for that winter...drove up along the river every day...what a beautiful piece of the planet...

Cheers!

[Rollins]

25. I was in Tokyo last summer

Might be there this Christmas. Would be nice to meet a fellow DU'er.

[DannyRed]

10. Devils advocate question:

Why should the UN go around cleaning up the messes made by the US?

We broke it, we insulted the UN and its leading members during the last negotiations, we have repeatedly reneged on deals with the UN regarding funding of its operations and funding of initiatives, we have repeatedly shielded our pets and allies from the UN, and have violated a number of resolutions ourselves.

I think the UN would be perfectly justified letting the US, and the Bushies, twist in the wind.

Just asking.

[lumpy]

14. Three reasons and probably more

For the sake of the Iraqi people
To restore relevency to the UN
To emphasize the relevancy of other UN Mid-east nation's involvment
in seeking peacefull solutions to Mid-east problems.

[underpants]

15. Or....taking the lower moral ground

$
$
$

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

21. Don't forget

To show the world that they can do what bush* cannot.

[Equinox]

18. Half of me agrees with you.

Half of methinks that the UN should turn their back on us just like we do her time and again.

It's time we learned a lesson or two.

[Jack Rabbit]

24. While I would enjoy watching the Bushies twist slowly in the wind

While I would enjoy watching the Bushies twist slowly in the wind, that by itself will not benefit the people of Iraq. They are the victims in this disaster, first of Saddam and now of Bush. It is time to give them the opportunity to build their nation to their benefit rather than to the benefit of a tyrant, whether native born or foreign.

[Equinox]

16. Go France!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

n/t

[Gman]

17. This will end up being highly embarrassing for Bush*

But... France and Germany need to be very careful not to overplay this. If they're not careful, they can allow Karl Rove to shift the blame for this debacle from Bush to France and Germany. In other words, it could backfire and the world will be stuck with Bush* for another four years. If they're skillful about it, they can embarrass the shit out of Bush*, expose even more how corrupt this "administration" is and contribute to costing Bush* the election next year.

All the skeletons are there begging to be exposed. The reason Bush* so desparately wants the US to keep control is in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=106332. That is, they want to take care of their buddies. (I can see them defending this by saying that it keeps Americans working and helps the economy while never acknowledging how unethical and likely illegal this is.) France & Germany can make a good faith effort on behalf of the Iraqi people to want UN control. The caretaking of the Bush* buddies can be blamed as the real reason for the US wanting control.

[Equinox]

19. I love this quote...

"Intelligence reports told them at some length about possibilities for unpleasantness."


Is that the language our intelligence agencies use? LOL.....good grief.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. Again, France and Germany are right

Again, we may wonder what their motivations are, but at least they're right.

There will be no good to come to the Iraqi people as long as Bush is in control of their nation's future. The war was fought to loot the coiuntry, not to liberate anybody, fight terrosrism or destroy a weapons arsenal that didn't exist. The thief must be deprived of his booty.

We must still watch to be certain that any administration of Iraq has in mind the best interests of the Iraqi people. After taking care of mundane matters such as water and power and police protection at which the Bushies have utterly failed, the first order of business should be calling a constitutional convention. Coinciding with this should be the reconstruction of Iraq's infrastructure. To this end, the contracts awarded to US multinationals in a corrupt manner and imperial mood should be cancelled; new contracts should be awarded after an open bidding process with Iraqi businesses favored.

Iraq should be rebuilt to benefit Iraqis, not Bush's corporate cronies. The Iraqi economy should be reconstituted to rest in the hands of Iraqis through national public institutions, not foreign banks and multinational corporations.