At least six U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq in the last 24 hours

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0309/10/lt.02.html

<snip>WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

There has been a spike in the number of attacks against U.S. and other coalition service personnel here in Iraq. This morning, an American soldier was killed. I actually saw the explosion. I heard a loud boom, rushed out to my balcony, saw a cloud of smoke rising in the air. What happened was a member of an explosives ordinance demolition team had found what's called an improvised explosive device, tried to disarm it, and apparently it just blew him up, killed him.

Last night, another American soldier was killed, northern suburbs of Baghdad. Another improvised explosive device. This particular soldier was out on a patrol just about 24 hours ago. His Humvee was traveling through an area. There was an explosion again. The Humvees are what we call soft-skin vehicles. Any shrapnel that goes into these improvised explosive devices just slices right through them. One U.S. soldier killed there, another wounded.

Indeed, in the last 24 hours, at least six U.S. soldiers killed. There in the town of Erbil. The United States had an office, a building which it used for operations in the region, just about 20 hours ago from now. There was an SUV, a Toyota parked out front. It had explosives in it. Another extraordinarily loud, apparently remotely-controlled detonation. One Iraqi inside, or in the area, was killed. A number of others, that is 53 others, and we're not sure of the nationalities of the others, the 53 others also were injured in that attack.

more

[FlashHarry]

1. WHAT???

And we're only just hearing about it? Nobody else seems to be reporting this--and CNN isn't really known as a network that would publicize something like this. I wonder if the reporter misspoke.

[NNN0LHI]

2. The two words "at least" really worry me a lot n/t

[saigon68]

105. BRING IT ON--- g. w. bush president, freedom fighter, chimpanzee--- 2003

My three words. What a scumbag ole shrub is-----

[symbolman]

132. Here's the ad series I've been working on

15 second commercials called "Bring em ON" at

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bringemon.html

I'm going to keep changing the dates and the pics and leave the rest the same..

[pinerow]

30. Actualy, the attack in Ebril, Iraq, was reported early afternoon

on sep 9th, I found it very odd that there was only one mention on CNN, and none on the other cable news channels. It was not clear in the report yesterday how many were killed, I'm going to al-jazeera to see if there is any mention there.

[pinerow]

44. Here is the Al-Jazeera link, although they mention injuries to

DOD personnel, they report one Iraqi dead and over 41 others(no nationality mentioned) injured.

http://english.aljazeera.net/Articles/News/ArabWorld/Blast+rocks+northern+Iraqi+city.htm

[Beetwasher]

3. They're ratcheting up the attacks big time

I wonder if it's being orchestrated around the 9/11 anniversary...I have a bad feeling that something big is in store to commemorate it...

[Bozita]

4. Good thing this isn't a QUAGMIRE.

Regardless of its appearance and aroma.

[Skittles]

33. IRAQUAGMIRE

that's what it is

[Raenelle]

100. IraqWagmire

let's give credit where credit is due.

[are_we_united_yet]

130. It ain't original

Quag the Dogmire.

[markses]

5. CENTCOM's sticking with 2 dead

The one yesterday in the convoy attack

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20030908.txt

and one in the IED detonation team

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20030909.txt

No talk of four others, or any Americans in the Erbil bombing. I wonder what the CNN correspondent is referring to, since CENTCOM certainly hasn't made any announcements of the sort.

[SidDithers]

7. The pattern with these big bombings has been to underestimate...

deaths and injuries in the early reports. Go back and check both the bombing of the UN and the bombing of the Mosque. In each case, reported deaths and injuries were much lower than what the final tally (sorry, that's an awful way of describing it) turned out to be.

If the size of the car bomb exploded at the US intelligence office is on the same scale as the UN and Mosque bombings, I would expect to see similar casualty figures. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

Sid

[AWD]

6. Something tells me....

....that this didn't all happen in 24 hours.

Did any of us really believe that nobody was killed for 7 days over there???

[Beetwasher]

8. You might be right

They put a clamp down for the big speeech...

[0007]

22. I'm sure your correct Beetwasher about the clamp

But isn't their foreign correspondence in Iraq? Or does the US muzzle them too?

I know we have a sneaky dickie and a darkside administration, but how do they do it?

[Beetwasher]

24. Notice that the Foreign correspondent was reporting

something she personally saw. No way to hide that of course. Most casualties are not witnessed by correspondents and they rely on CENTCOM reports. CENTCOM can dribble out reports as they see fit and claim the casualties took place anywhere at anytime they want.

[0007]

51. Thanks mate

Do other countries that have news correspondencies in Iraq go through CENTCOM?

[Beetwasher]

58. All correspondents and news agencies go through CENTCOM

for "official" tally's of casualties, unless they are reporting an eyewitness account...This is how CENTCOM can "manage" the casualty figures. They are the ONLY "official" source...

[Patriot_Spear]

9. Not to beat a dead horse, but...

-snip-

"Shortly after the speech, NBC’s Norah O’Donnell reported that a growing number of lawmakers, including Republicans, have lately expressed dismay at administration efforts to keep classified the number of U.S. casualties in Iraq.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/951994.asp?vts=090820030410

My guess is that they were testing to see if they could squash the reporting on casualties...

[Cocoa]

10. go ahead beat it

I hadn't seen that story, it's a big one.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Ah, the closed-door revelation of actual casualties.

Waiting to see if we hear more about this.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

23. link doesnt work. now another article

.

[Patriot_Spear]

31. Looks like it's been scrubbed- let me see if I can find it again...

n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. Heard her report it on MSNBC.

And not a peep about it since.

[NNN0LHI]

29. Do you remember what the headline for that story was? n/t

[Patriot_Spear]

32. It was the MSN / MSNBC post speech comentary link... n/t

n/t

[Patriot_Spear]

54. When I searched MSNBC it linked to this article...

But the quote and the rest of the information are gone.



http://partners.search.msn.com/partner.asp?q=%22expressed+dismay+at+administration+efforts+to+keep+classified+the+number+of+U%2ES%2E+casualties+in+Iraq%22&tballssMSNBC=Go&FORM=MSNBC&RS=CHECKED&dom=www.msnbc.com&un=doc&cfg=MSNBC&v=1&co=50&ba=0

[sham]

64. dammit

I didn't get to see it before it was scrubbed. Assholes!

[leetrisck]

16. Don't report deaths while Bush is speaking

or when Rumsfeld is in Iraq - no deaths were reported during that time frame.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Walter Rogers is back on now doing spin control and now reporting 2 dead

The problem is that the two deaths he just described did not include the soldier driving the LP truck yesterday. I suspect CNN got a call from someone?

Don

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. Difference between "combat" and "non-combat" deaths?

:shrug:

[Aristus]

14. And the Chimp is just going to do his jut-jawed "...and who, disguised

as Clark Kent..." pose for the anniversary remembrances without acknowledging these new deaths. GOD! We need to get him out of the White House!

[NNN0LHI]

15. Could someone please get a screen shot of the page for this link before...

...it gets pulled?

Don

[mhr]

19. I've Got the Screenshot

Let me know if anyone wants it.

[NNN0LHI]

25. Thank you, Sir. I just didn't want to be accused of seeing things n/t

[Patriot_Spear]

20. got it...n/t

n/t

[Rose Siding]

17. I posted this msnbc report...

Monday after the speech. Has anyone heard anything about this "meeting" that upset the members of Congress who were present? -Whoever they were. This should have leaked much farther by now.

(My post was a question, but it was substantiated by others in the thread)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=295068

[NNN0LHI]

18. I think they are trying to keep the numbers down for several reasons

They don't want the troops from other countries we have bribed to be there to pull out. And they want others to come into this mess. Plus deaths are bad for Juniors image and poll numbers.

Don

[sistersofmercy]

21. The bombing in Iraq referred to was on Turkish news sources last

Night.

[Rasorite]

26. Has anybody hear ever heard of Normandy?

My dad did. He was there. He saw a couple of thousand killed within the first 20 minutes of the invasion. I don't mean to belittle these six American deaths, but these numbers really are a drop in the bucket compared to what we went through in WW2. It's unfortunate, but fatalities are the price of war, folks. I guess I find myself thinking 'thank God we've only lost a few hundred' since this thing began. Eisenhower would have been most grateful if he'd only lost a few hundred in six months. Think about it.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rasorite]

38. That's insulting

to our good soldiers. In WW2, we were fighting an imperialist dictator. Same as now

[htuttle]

41. I'm insulting the troops? *I'M* insulting the troops?

I am not the one who called the death of 6 of them for no reason, "A drop in the bucket" In WW2, we were fighting fascists from 3 countries. How is that insulting?

By the way, shouldn't you be in school today? (now THAT was insulting...)

[Rose Siding]

45. Ah, but your president says

we are fighting "terror". The dictator is long gone and Bush's imperialist creds are looking equally substnative.

[Frances]

49. You contend that Saddam is still in power

Provide a link please.

[RichV]

53. Perspective

You really equate the Nazis attempt at taking over Europe, if not the world, with Saddam's attempt more than a decade ago to annex Kuwait? Or maybe you're thinking of the Iran-Iraq war back in the 1980s? Hitler and crew were legitimately attempting to slaughter millions of people and conquer scores of other nations. I certainly hope you're a Freeper disruptor, because otherwise I'd have to guess you're just talking out of your ass. Whether you supported the Iraq war or not for whatever reasons, the comparison to WW2 is ridiculous and unfounded.

[janx]

83. Chimpy made a similar comparison in his speech the other night.

It made me very angry.

[ender]

56. who's the imperialist dictator here?

sorry, but theres only been one country on god's green earth that has attacked and occupied two countries in the last two years.

and the answer isnt "iraq".

but you arent going to last long, are ye?

[leftchick]

72. the only "imperialist dictator" I see

is the one from the US sending our troops to die for his corporate oil wars...

[PsychoDad]

140. Lets rephrase....

They are fighting for a Imperialist dictator. We have become the nazis.

[Bozita]

42. Iraq invasion looks a lot like Nazi Germany moving on Poland...

...in early September, 1939.

Heavy air and mechanized units created a 1939 version of "shock and awe."

[htuttle]

50. Well, that's the first time I've had that happen to a reply

I suppose it was the phrase 'you twit' that crossed the line, eh?

Sorry about that.

[Beetwasher]

28. Think about this

We were fighting the Nazi's at Normandy who were on a mission of world conquest.

We're now fighting guerrilla's in Iraq who are trying to rid their country of invaders bent on world conquest.

If you don't see the difference, you're blind. There is no comparison between this illegal, unjustified, unprovoked war and WWII.

[Rasorite]

39. So you are saying the United States is

"bent on world conquest'? I'm sorry, but that notion is nutty as hell.

[Beetwasher]

46. No, what's nutty as hell is comparing this invasion to WWII

Are you familiar with PNAC. Get a clue.

You're pathetic, you demean our troops claiming their deaths are a drop in a bucket. How disgusting. You're non-reverence for human life is noted. This is not a just war, it's a war to steal another countries resources and ANY death of our soldiers and innocent civilians is too many.

[LibDemAlways]

47. Go to the Project for a New American Century

website and get educated. American global domination is exactly what Rummy, Wolfowitz and the rest of the cabal have in mind.

[Rose Siding]

48. Visit Project for A New American Century.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

You'll find most of the information you're missing.

[grytpype]

112. Check the avatar.

It's Holy Joe! Run for the hills, Ma!

[StandWatie]

119. no, you are nutty as hell

The US has been working on it ever since WWII and we really don't care a squirt of piss if we have to install murderous dictators, use the CIA to subert elections or train terrorist armies to do it (check Latin America, Near East, and Asia).

[Jackpine Radical]

120. Have you ever heard of PNAC?

Thought not.

Try Google. I'm too busy right now to do elementary research for a twi--I mean neophyte.

[sal]

137. I guess you are headed for the front Mr. Chickenhawk?

Unless you are already on Viagra, then you can send your son and let him drop in the bucket? I honor your sacrifice either way.

[RichV]

34. Horrible comparison

How does the Allied invasion of Normandy compare to our current, unnecessary Robotech vs. Flintstones war?

[The Icon Painter]

35. Needless

Given that the Iraq War was a war of choice which WWII certainly was not (I'm old enough to remember Normandy), there was no need for us to lose even one life in Iraq. These men and women in our forces are dying, not for freedom, but for Zippy and the Pinheads.

[NNN0LHI]

37. Drop in the bucket? Did you just say drop in the bucket?

I can't comment because my hands are shaking so bad right now.................

[HereSince1628]

52. He who reduces 8 pints to a drop has no respect for human life n/t

.

[Skittles]

40. THINK ABOUT IT????

Think that I should be GRATEFUL we've only lost a few HUNDRED AMERICAN SOLDIERS due to the ILLEGAL INVASION by and ILLEGITIMATE "PRESDENT". No, YOU THINK ABOUT IT. Ask yourself WHY you would even THINK something so F***ING STUPID.

:puke:

[Rasorite]

57. To respond to your thoughtful post

Our invasion wasn't at all 'illegal'. We were merely following the dozen or so UN directives, the last being Resolution 1441....Point 2..Yes. A few hundred IS a drop in the bucket compared to tens of thousands of lives lost in WW2.....So please do not use profanity towards me until you have stated something accurate. Thanks.

[RichV]

59. Well

I guess we can see who still supports Lieberman at this point.

[HereSince1628]

67. Welcome to DU

:hi:

Interesting name...sort of a merger of razor and right

[Skittles]

75. STOP WITH THE RNC SPIN

IT IS SICKENING and reminds me why we are stuck with this idiot "president" in the first place.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

113. I see you've bought into the Bushie line of thought....

...how come they can't seem to find any WMDs? I thought that was the basis for the action taken by the Bushies...that if the Iraqis refused to allow arms inspectors and/or refused to give up their WMDs?

Funny thing about all of this is that the Iraqis seemed to be very cooperative with the UN Inspectors, and they kept claiming that the WMDs had been destroyed by 1995. And guess what? The UN Inspectors certified Iraq as having destroyed their WMDs in 1995.

[piece sine]

118. it's freightening, isn't it?!

The flaming and the scorched earth rhetoric of the DUers here who don't tolerate so much as a footnote of dissent to their hardline orthdoxy. I'm progressive -- lifelong, politically active Democrat and gay activist, (but alas, a supporter of Israel) -- and every time I dare insert a contrarian viewpoint, I get flamed to hell!

I don't agree with some of what you wrote, Rasorite, but I regret you were attacked; one even seemed to be disecting your avatar for hidden a political dimension. Damn....I can remember when liberals were actually liberal!

Some posters here MISS the fact that while relatively few actually log-in and participate, many, many more people visit and read the site and witness some very nasty retribution for expressing divergent opinions. Their actions reflect VERY BADLY on all of DU and the progressive values that set it apart. DU is slowly growing famous as a hate site...more and more, I see references in the media to the anger and hate at DU. My sense is the older posters (who know each other) don't like us new ones. They don't trust us as far as they can throw a piano.

We DU "rookies" want to defeat Bush in 2004 as much as they do -- but if you're well-educated in the LIBERAL arts, spewing venom doesn't come as easy as rationally disecting aspects of the issue. Or thinking of a new angle to a problem worth exploring even if it breaks the ice in an unexpected way --like you did earlier with the troubled reference to Normandy.

[chasqui]

134. I hate to get into this

But since has an education in the 'Liberal Arts' been the sort of thing that induces rationality and impartiality?
There is no such thing as the 'truth' in the liberal arts, there are only elocuently and effectively stated points of view.

[NickB79]

123. Yes, it was illegal

In order to authorize military force be used, the Security Council of the UN has to vote on and ok it, as stated in Resolution 1441. The US knew that they couldn't get the votes they needed from Germany, France or Russia, so they invaded WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL!!! That is ILLEGAL under international laws and Resolution 1441. Secondly, under international law, the only justifiable reason for the invasion of a foreign nation is in self-defense due to an "imminent threat" from that country. As we've now seen, the intelligence we recieved about Iraq's WMD program was already being questioned (and much of it debunked) months before we invaded. There was no "imminent threat" of attack on the US or US forces by Iraq. You may say hindsight is 20/20, but our intelligence was already highly questionable even before the invasion began, before we knew what we know now about there being no WMD.

If this were another war being fought against a powerful dictator bent on world domination ala Hilter, then yes, the lives lost in Iraq would be drops in the bucket. However, Saddam was not Hitler even in Bush's best wet dream. Saddam was a man with a devastated military, no WMD, and a nation of people crippled by a decade of sanctions, not even close to Hitler's power. Hell, even if we gave him another 10 yrs, under UN sanctions he would still not have had as much power as Hitler had in his pinkie finger. If you can't see this, we're both wasting our breath.

[HereSince1628]

43. Great, deaths in Iraq are less than KIA's in battles in other wars

Check me here, as long as that remains true then deaths in an unprecedented, unjustified, and ill-concieved war are OK?

The failure to adequately plan, includng co-ordination of international support has resulted in American soldiers shouldering a greater rick than they should have.

The storming of "fortress Europe" had LOTS of planning and the expected loses were acknowledged by the planners and politicians beforehand.

In this case, the administration supported by Neocon press efforts and for sure lied to Congress and lied to the American.

[Frances]

55. You should visit the Viet Nam memorial in DC

Do you want a wall like that for Iraq?

If so, then go to your local recruiter, no matter what your age and sign up. We've had 18 year olds killed as well as a man in his 50s. So don't let age stop you. Insist that the government find a place for you.

Oh yes, and if you come back without your legs and an arm the way Max Cleland did be prepared to be compared to Osama.

[copithorne]

61. Back to the orignial subject

About journalism and reporting deaths.

My perception is that the bombing in Northern Iraq was of a "safehouse."

American deaths there might have been of CIA agents rather than of U.S. Army. Those deaths might be noted by a reporter on the ground but never confirmed by CENTCOM or reported by the US government.

Still, it indicates penetration of US intelligence -- an inside job.

[Rasorite]

62. Since there are plenty of volunteers

available, I don't feel the need to sign up. I'll just continue to support their efforts with my prayers, my words, and my tax dollars. My wish is that we would all support those men and women and the mission they are trying to accomplish.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

65. You still don't get it, do you? What is the "mission"?

[DrWeird]

68. BAHGAHK!

bok bok bok

[disgruntella]

69. Welcome to DU, Congressman Delay!

"So many minority youths had volunteered that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like myself."

http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawk_politicans.html

[HereSince1628]

71. Hahahahah!

.

[HereSince1628]

78. Funny I posted an LBN that said the Administration

was so interested in find somemore volunteers that they were sending recruiters into Mexico...

Your country seems to need troops who share your interests.

[wryter2000]

84. Lieberman supporters

Lieberman supporters, please tell me this person doesn't represent your views. I want to be able to vote for your man if he gets the nomination.

[Riptide]

103. If there are plenty of volunteers, then why are we extending

soldier's tours for a year or more? Because there are simply not enough troops to fight in all these wars that Dumbya is so fond of starting. The military is stretched very thin.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and get down to the recruiting office. We'll see whose life is merely a "drop in the bucket" when it is your ass they're shooting at.

[chasqui]

135. You are a hypocrite

eom.

[Patriot_Spear]

60. It's clear you've never served...

No Soldier would ever belittle the death of a comrade.

[Rasorite]

66. You are correct. I never served.

But I don't quite see how my expressing thankfulness that only a tiny fraction have died compared to WW2 is 'belittling' anyone. Could you explain how you arrived at that conclusion?

[Patriot_Spear]

74. I could explain- but only a Soldier could understand...

A guys who's froze his ass off on 24 hour guard details would know.

A guy who spent three days on patrol with 2 hours of sleep here and there would know.

A guy who missed his wife and kids, mom and dad for months on end would know.

A guy who learned how to sleep standing up, in the rain or 20 below would know.

A guy who stood there while a flag was folded over a buddies coffin and handed to his folks would know.




Any candy-ass can sit back and blithely downgrade the sacrifice of todays Soldiers by comparing it to the sacrifice of others- but all it really shows is that the men who hit Pointe Du Hoc, St. Lo, Omaha have the same spirit as the guys in Basra, or Bagdhad.

Their sacrifice is no less valuable or costly.

[Rose Siding]

79. OK you got me

Guess I needed a good cry. Thanks for your words.

[VolcanoJen]

98. Thank you for that thoughtful and tear-inducing post, Patriot.

Excellent work. Thank you. My grandfather who fought Imperial Japan as a brave Marine in Iwo Jima thanks you, my other grandfather who was a PT Boat mechanic in the Pacific theater thanks you, my great-uncle who survived the Bataan Death March thanks you.

Very upset now, but we really needed someone to say it. Thank God it was you.

Jennifer :-(

[Skittles]

76. It's pathetic that this needs to be explained to you

I, by the way, SERVED.

[Kat 333]

139. Sadly

you, occasionally, run across someone that just isn't worth the time or effort to explain anything to.

They are the sort that, if the truth be known, are busily sucking up other peoples time and energy for no meaningful purpose.

These people are irritating but, in their own right, rather sad.

In spite of the old saying "Ignorance is Bliss" most of us know better. It always wins out in the end - destroying those that succumb to it. I've yet to see an exception.

Good luck "Rasorite". You're going to need it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. My Dad was also in WWII, but like my Dad, I bet your Dad can see the...

...difference between fighting Nazi Germany, Japan, and Italy as opposed to fighting Iraq. A major world conflict is quite a bit different from the only remaining world superpower slapping a third world country back into the Stone Age.

I can personally think of several valid reasons for having gone to war against Naxi Germany, Japan, and Italy.

But, can you honestly tell me why the Bushies chose to attack Iraq? IMHO, every single reason trotted out by the neocons has been debunked. There are no WMDs, and there is no link to Al Qaeda. And what "freedom" have we given the Iraqi people besides total anarchy, no power, no water, and the ultimate "freedom" of death?

And if we have no reason to be in Iraq, how can anyone justify the death of a single American? I'll bet the families of the American soldiers that have been killed are asking the same questions.

[Spider Jerusalem]

70. A drop in the bucket.

Right. So the lives of six American s...six young men whose families, friends, wives, children, etc., will never see them again are simply to be shrugged off. Meaningless, right? After all, there were ONLY six of them. Never mind that this was a war waged against international opinion, for no real strategic goal, the end result of which has been to make conditions ultimately WORSE for those poor miserable Iraqis we were supposed to be "liberating", most of whom don't even want us there anymore. Oh, and it's turned into an ongoing guerrila conflict eerily reminiscent of what happened in a certain Southeast Asian country almost forty years ago...

But none of that matters, because we are America, and what we do is RIGHT, because we say it is, and we feel that we have a divine mission to enforce our will and our ideas of morality throughout the globe, without regard for potential consequences. After all, if God be with us, who then can stand against us, right?

Sure. And if you REALLY believe any of that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

[kimchi]

73. Welcome to DU, Spider Jerusalem.

Thanks for jumping right in with the truth!

[Patriot_Spear]

77. Here's a couple of Drops in the Bucket for you...

Army Spc. Eric R. Hull, 23, of Uniontown, Pa. Killed in Baghdad when his vehicle hit an improvised explosive device. Assigned to the 307th Military Police Company, U.S. Army Reserves, New Kensington, Pa.


Military Fatality Date: 9/2/2003
Army Private 1st Class Christopher A. Sisson
Age: 20
From: Oak Park, Illinois
Assigned To: 3rd Bat., 325th Parachute Infantry Reg.
Based In: Fort Bragg, NC
Fatality Date: Tuesday, September 02, 2003
Fatality Location: Camp Dogwood (S. of Baghdad), Iraq

[Spoon]

89. I need to vent a little here...

Sometimes on this board I get the feeling that a majority of posters here think that American lives are somehow more important than other lives. Regardless of Bush's true motivations, the soldiers and Iraqi civilians that were sacrificed in this conflict did die for a greater good. Their lives were a cost that was paid to remove a brutal regime from power, and save countless souls that would have been lost at the hands of Saddam. I don't undersatnd the love of Hussein here. It's like, "Bush wanted it so we must support the opposite". Some here say the war was unjustified. I believe is certainly was justified.

Should a broader coalition have been build? Yes.

Should we be mad that our troops are dying instead of UN troops? Doesn't matter - a life is a life.

Did Bush mislead on WMD to sell the war? Yes. And I'm not sure why.

All Bush had to say was that we were going in for human rights reasons alone. I'd support intervention in the Congo too, BTW.

[Beetwasher]

93. Pathetic. Why do you love Hitler?

"I don't undersatnd the love of Hussein here."

I don't understand your love of Hitler. Your support of the invasion is the same support that the Germans gave Hitler for his invasion of Poland. Why do you love Hitler?

[Spoon]

99. Are you against the UN intervening in human rights situations?

Do you consider the UN the "Fourth Reich" when they do? Do you have any compassion at all?

I don't appreciate your name calling whatsoever. Totally un-called-for, and the main reson I seldom post on Iraq threads.

[Beetwasher]

102. What the hell are you talking about?

I didn't call you any names.

The UN doesn't bomb the shit out countries, destroy their infrastructure and kill thousands of their citizens to steal their oil.

Compassion? Where's yours? Where's your compassion for all the dead Iraqi's and all the Iraqi's now living in misery and sqalor with no fresh water, no electricity, rampant disease etc. You don't have an ounce of compassion. You claim compassion only when it suits your needs.

[Spoon]

108. You basically called me a Hitler lover. I take offense to that.

"destroy their infrastructure" Are we talking about the same war? Most of the infrastructure that has been damaged was done so by Saddam supporters, and wasn't that great to begin with.

BTW. Korea, Vietnam, and GW1 were UN conficts... lots of bombs. Sometimes it take force to oust brutal dictators. It's a sacrifice, and for the greater good. Is it worth it to sac one life to save 10 in the long run? Of course it is. Unless you value American lives more than others. You're the racist Hitler lover, I think.

[Beetwasher]

109. Ummm, you need to brush up on your reading comprehension

I asked why you loved Hitler. It's just as valid a question as you asked about why people here love Hussein.

You're nuts if you think that the infrastructure was mostly damaged by SH supporters. You don't think any damage happened from the merciless bombing campaign? Wow, are you ignorant.

Not only is your reading comprehension bad, but so is your history. Korea and Vietnam and GWI were not all UN wars, nor were they about removing dictators. Name the dictators removed as a result of those wars. I think humanitarian issues are a good reason for military intervention, which is why I thought the Kosovo war was a good mission. But if you think this war was fought for humanitarian reasons, you're more clueless than I initially thought. I value all life, you're the one willing to sacrifice god knows how many Americans and Iraqi's so Bush and his cronies can steal Iraq's oil. This has nothing to do with a humanitarian mission. Where are the WMD's? Get a clue.

[Spoon]

115. Hmmm. I thought I made it clear that I'm not sure of

Bush's intentions in my original post. Oh wait, I did:

"Regardless of Bush's true motivations, the soldiers and Iraqi civilians that were sacrificed in this conflict did die for a greater good."

The ousting dictators thing was a separate thought. I only meant to say that UN missions have involved weapons before.

[Beetwasher]

116. Sorry, but you can't separate Bush's true motivations

from the result of the conflict and where we're at now. There will be no humanitarian mission if that's not the purpose of the mission. What's so hard to understand about that? That's why when we invaded Iraq we secured the oil fields and the oil ministry and let the rest of the country go to hell, including allowing nuclear facilities to be looted. That's why we're in the situation wer'e in now, because Bush and his criminal cabal didn't give a shit about the Iraqi people and their supposed freedom at all. The Iraqi's are not free, there are no elections and as long as the US is occupying the country there will never be freedom or elections. They still don't have clean water or electricity or even fuel (it's an oil rich country and they can't even get fuel????). Many Iraqi's now feel they were better off under SH where they at least had electricity, clean water, a job and didn't fear that their daughters would be kidnapped and raped by roving gangs of thugs or that they themselves would be murdered or blown up by gangs, fundamentalists or US troops.

"The ousting dictators thing was a separate thought. I only meant to say that UN missions have involved weapons before."

I have no clue what you're talking about here. I suspect your trying to backtrack since what you said originally made no sense either.

[HereSince1628]

95. Yes we should be mad our troops are dying, and wounded, and sick

I don't by your argument: "Should we be mad that our troops are dying instead of UN troops? Doesn't matter - a life is a life."

Your argument overlooks the reality that these soldiers are in the army of OUR country, and it is our responsibility as citizens in a democratic republic to make our feelings known so as to influence policy.

The Canadians, French, Germans, Greeks, Turks, and the rest of the citizens of nations of the world that had majorities reject the arguments for war don't have the same influence you and I have.

I care about it being our soldiers, I hope on reflection you do, too.

[GR]

111. No, It's The Price Of A Stupid War, stupid planning,....

and greed for oil...That ain't the same as Normandy...

[pw]

114. Just by the way

What you are saying about your father's experience is untrue. Total Allied deaths for the normandy invasion are estimated at 2,500. No single soldier could have seen more than a tiny fraction of those, much less "within the first 20 minutes". I believe you dishonor both the memories of those who died then and those who are dying now by tossing such fiction around.

And Eisenhower would have had the insignia of any officer who suggested that it was OK to lose hundreds of soldier in an unecessary action against a massively inferior foe.

[chasqui]

136. As opposed to Patton

Who thought that 'bloodying' his troops was something that ought to be done to toughen them up.

[0007]

80. This is what Reuter's is reporting

http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3419576

ARBIL, Iraq (Reuters) - A suicide bomber killed himself and a Iraqi child and wounded more than 50 people, including six U.S.
personnel, according to local people and the U.S. military on Wednesday.

More...........

[NNN0LHI]

82. Isn't it odd that we have not seen any video or photos of this building?

I wonder if it is even still standing?

Don

[0007]

92. I wouldn't think so from all the damage

it did to the surrounding area.

Funny, Paul Wolfowitz was telling John McCain yesterday at the hearing how safe North Iraq was. And how everything was under control
and going as planned.

[saigon68]

131. WOLFIE= COWARD

delussional thinking

[VolcanoJen]

86. Why the F isn't this on US news anywhere....?

NNN0LHI, thank you so much for alerting us to this troubling story, and the cover-up that seems to have followed.

And 0007, thanks for providing back-up in that Reuters link.

Time to start emailing MSNBC and CNN...

- Jennifer

[NNN0LHI]

88. I have searched all of the slideshows on Yahoo and cannot find even...

...one photo of this building and have not seen one piece of video on any cable "news" shows either VJ. None. And you are more than welcome. That is what I am here for.

Don

[molok555]

96. Heard about the bombing earlier this evening

didn't hear it was a used by 'US personnel'. Now the almost total blackout of news on this thing. Everyone is silent/vague about just what this place was. Obviously, the phrase 'US personnel' makes me think they weren't soldiers. CIA? Think about that: a CIA building in Kurdish-controlled Iraq bombed. What part of that equation doesn't add up to quagmire?

BIG TROUBLE

[karlschneider]

110. Uh, I remarked on this yesterday shortly after it happened & you locked

the thread...

[sham]

81. shit!!!

Is anyone else having trouble with the CENTCOM website? I've tried two different browsers andI can't load either one of the most recent press releases.
http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20030908.txt
and
http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20030909.txt

Is their site just funky or something? I'm trying to refrain from reaching for my tinfoil hat here, but it's getting really suspicious, what with the MSNBC link being gone. Is there an alternate link to the press releases?

[LivingInTheBubble]

85. looks like they have been deleted.

Chances are news_release.asp reads and formats a text file with the news article in, the text files containing the details have been deleted hence the script errors trying to read them.

[markses]

87. CENTCOM deletes press releases of last 2 US killed

They have indeed been deleted. I looked at those very press releases this morning, when I posted the links. The main CENTCOM site is now back to the way it looked before yesterday afternoon, when they posted the first link. Will we have to screen shot press releases of the US dead, or have they decided to stop the press releases altogether.

I am not a tinfoil hat person. I find most of the tinfoil silly. In this case, though, I am screwing my eyebrows at an unprecedented move. I've been following the CENTCOM releases since April, and have never seen them take down a press release (much less two!). If anything, they ADD an update. very curious move.

[NNN0LHI]

90. I think Comical Ali is working for CENTCOM these days n/t

[sham]

94. what reason would they have for doing that?

it doesn't make sense. the information has already been disseminated. there are apparently reporters who witnessed at least one of the incidents.

[markses]

104. I have a printscreen on it

It is no longer on the site.

So, yes, they have no reason to do it, but they were surely taken down off the site. I'll email you the printscreen if you don't believe it.

[sham]

106. no, I believe it.

I saw the press releases and tried to go back to them a few minutes later and they were gone. so I believe it. it just doesn't make sense.

maybe making sense is too much to ask....

[symbolman]

133. Can you post the two differing screenshots or

send me to a link where I can download them? I'd sure love to break this on Take Back the Media's site.. we are creating the ARMY OF ONE commercial and I need info on Casualites.. I can send this along to a fellow I know that testifies before Congress on Vet affairs..

thanks

[Rose Siding]

107. The govt says casualty counts are classified.

As reported by msnbc on Mon night.

The reasons to keep these numbers from the public is because support drops dramatically as casualties increase. They don't want that pressure.

And the US press has let itself be spoonfed "official" releases so often that without one, sometimes the authenticity of the story is doubted.

[VolcanoJen]

91. NNN0LHI - remember yesterday, when we were researching this:

It's Karlschneider's LBN Link, reporting the bombing in Erbil. A lot of good LBN folks researched it, and we decided it must be a dupe since nothing else had been reported.

Here's the locked thread for your files:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=105308

:tinfoilhat:
Jennifer

[TNOE]

97. Shameful, Sickening, Disgusting, Pathetic, Etc.

Can someone tell me what (or if) I heard correctly that John Kerry made a statement something to the effect of "the last soldier to die for a mistake". Anyone know? It seems those words are truly profound when you put into the context of whose kid will it be, or whose son or daughter or whose mom or dad.

[grasswire]

101. re: secret meeting

I saw a Senator last night (and God help me I can't remember which one) say that this secret meeting was held on the day after The Washington Post released the casualty figures. The casualty report the Senators were given was marked TOP SECRET. He could talk about the numbers because The Post had printed them the day before.

[lindashaw]

117. Posts from KurdishMedia & al-Jazzera

The number 6 may have been these injury reports, you think?


This from KurdishMedia.com

London (KurdishMedia.com) 10 September 2003: Three people were killed and around 47 others injured in a suicide bomb attack outside an office of US troops near Arbil, Capital of Kurdistan.

The explosion happened on Tuesday (1805 GMT) at a checkpoint between Arbil and Salahadeen, the headquarter of Barzani, leader of Kurdistan Democratic Party. (KDP). There are reports of 6 US soldiers among injuries.

The Kurdish authorities in Arbil has appealed for people to donate blood to help the injured.

http://www.kurdmedia.com/news.asp?id=4274




This from al-Jazeera...

http://english.aljazeera.net/Articles/News/ArabWorld/Iraqi+blows+himself+up.htm

Iraq attack kills four - scores injured

A resistance fighter blew up a car killing four people including two children and himself, and wounded dozens of people, including six US soldiers, in the northern Iraqi Kurd city of Arbil.

[NNN0LHI]

121. I think this story may explain some things?

The CIA does not report the deaths of their agents unless they are actually caught on video as happened at the Afghan prison. There are a lot of gold stars on the wall at CIA headquarters which represent dead CIA agents without names to identify them to protect others. Don

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGADMNWUFKD.html

Suicide Bomber Hits U.S. Intelligence Compound in Northern Iraq; Two Soldiers Killed in Baghdad

IRBIL, Iraq (AP) - A suicide bomber tried to drive a TNT-laden SUV into a U.S. intelligence compound in northern Iraq, but it blew up short of the target, killing three people and seriously wounding four American intelligence officers, officials said Wednesday.

A Kurdish security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said al-Qaida was behind the bombing in Irbil late Tuesday, less than two days before second anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks. He gave no evidence to support the claim. snip

The U.S. military in Baghdad said four officers of the Defense Human Intelligence Service were wounded along with a Kurdish guard. The Defense Human Intelligence Service is part of the Defense Intelligence Agency, the military counterpart to the CIA.

In Washington, DIA spokesman Lt. Cmdr. James Brooks identified the wounded only as military intelligence officials. He would not confirm they were from his agency.

more

[alcuno]

122. You said earlier that you had not seen video. I did last night.

Can't remember which cable channel it was, but they said Erbil. The video was shot at a distance and there were satellite trucks in the area. The video was shot down a narrow road at night. There was a large fire burning in the background and people were running around. I remember wondering why I didn't any video on any other channel.

[NNN0LHI]

124. I seen video of the surrounding areas

It sounds like that is what you saw too. If you have seen the actual building these people were in tell me what the condition of it was. Was there just some windows blown out?

Don

[alcuno]

125. It was at night.

Hard to judge the distance, but I'd say maybe a mile away. You couldn't see the building; just a very large fire. At first I thought it was video of another pipeline burning, but then they said it was a building in Erbil.

[NNN0LHI]

126. That sounds strange seeing there was a CNN crew a the scene

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=721&e=7&u=/ap/20030909/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_bombing

Several Injured in Iraq Car Bombing

<snip>U.S. military officials said they could not immediately confirm the report on CNN-Turk, a local subsidiary of U.S.-based CNN.

U.S. soldiers flew to the site by helicopter and cordoned off the area together with local Iraqi Kurdish fighters.

A Turkish reporter at the scene said by telephone that the blast collapsed the front of the two-story building. He said that most of the injured were from nearby houses.

Witnesses said two people were killed and ten injured, but hospital officials could not confirm those reports, the Turkish reporter said.

more

[alcuno]

127. The report says that they cordoned off the area.

I think the video was on CNN; probably from CNN-Turk. The video was probably just shot before they could get closer or before someone told them what had happened.

[NNN0LHI]

128. I don't remember the UN building, the Jordanian embassy, or the mosque...

...being cordoned off from cameras after they were blown up? I can remember exactly what those buildings looked like. There was plenty of video footage of all three of those and photos on the Yahoo website. But I have not seen any of this one...except from the distance of blocks away.

Don

Edit: This blast was felt at least three miles away.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/20030910/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Bomber Kills 3 Near U.S. Compound in Iraq

<snip>Bullion, speaking from his office three miles outside Irbil, said the SUV blast was felt there. He said the Americans were collecting intelligence in the region and that the explosion "would have no impact on our operations."

The blast also injured 41 Iraqis and destroyed several homes, the Kurdish official said. The wounded included children who lived nearby and Iraqi Kurdish guards.

<snip>The Kurdish security official said U.S. intelligence officers worked in the bombed building, with some of the top officers also sleeping there. Others had quarters in two villas not far away.

"It was a blasphemy to put their base in a civilian neighborhood," said Najib Abdullah, manager of a nearby gas station. "The whole neighborhood shook. Chunks of concrete were falling from the sky."

more

[are_we_united_yet]

129. Godammnit !

I'm sick of this! Bring these folks home!

[IndianaGreen]

138. Al-Jazeera: Iraq attack kills four - scores injured

Iraq attack kills four - scores injured

Wednesday 10 September 2003, 17:00 Makka Time, 14:00 GMT

A resistance fighter blew up a car killing four people including two children and himself, and wounded dozens of people, including six US soldiers, in the northern Iraqi Kurd city of Arbil.

The bodies of the second child and an elderly woman have yet to be recovered. The blast occurred on Tuesday night in front of a US-rented villa in a posh locality of Arbil.

The house was believed to have been used by United States intelligence agents. A military spokeswoman initially said it had been a "safe house". Later, military press officers became tight-lipped, confirming only that a blast had taken place in Arbil.

The force of the explosion hurled pieces of the car nearly two kilometers away, blew in compound walls and smashed in doors and windows across the Shorash neighbourhood, witnesses said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/Articles/News/ArabWorld/Iraqi+blows+himself+up.htm

[NNN0LHI]

141. 22 attacks in this same 24 hour period. I think Walter Rogers was right

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030911/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_unrest&cid=1514&ncid=1480

US troops embroiled in firefight as attacks persist in Iraq

<snip>The latest strikes against US forces came after military authorities recorded 22 attacks over a 24-hour period stretching from Tuesday into Wednesday.

This compared with an average of 12 to 15 attacks a day since US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) declared an end to major combat operations on May 1.

Anti-American feeling has run high in Fallujah ever since US troops killed at least 16 demonstrators in late April.

More recently, US troops shot dead one Iraqi policeman and seriously wounded another on Wednesday after a bomb struck their convoy on the outskirts of the town.

more