Mentally-ill girl who was sold for sex faces death penalty in Iran

[emad]

The Independent
By Angus McDowall in Tehran
14 December 2004


A teenage girl with a mental age of eight is facing the death penalty for prostitution in Iran. The trial comes only four months after the hanging of another mentally ill girl for sex before marriage in a case that has prompted a human rights lawyer to prepare a charge of wrongful execution against the presiding judge.

The girl, known as Leyla M, is in prison while the Supreme Court decides on her "acts contrary to chastity", among the most serious charges under Iranian law. Under the penal code, girls as young as nine and boys as young as 15 can be executed.

In an interview on a Persian-language website, the 19-year-old says she was forced into prostitution by her mother at the age of eight. Amnesty International refers to reports that say she was repeatedly raped, bore her first child aged nine and was passed from pimp to pimp before having another three children.

She told the website: "The first time I was taken to a man's house by my mum I was eight. It was a horrible night and I cried a lot but then my mum came the next day and took me home. She bought me chocolate and cheese curls."

More:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=592910

THIS IS SO horrible it just made me puke.....especially after reading that some pressure group is trying to bring in Sharia law into the UK to resolve family/matrimonial lawsuits....

[Guarionex]

1. this is horrible...

hello...does any of the legal geniuses in Iran realize that the girl is mentally impaired? She didn't commit these acts...her mother is the one who is guilty...and those that raped her...but they go free, and she dies?

Iran's legal system is fucked up.

[LynnTheDem]

4. And it's ok to execute mentally retarded people

in AMERICA?

[Bill McBlueState]

9. who said that?

Apparently, Iran and the United States both have fucked up legal systems.

[cali]

22. It's wrong there and here,

but please point out the mentally retarded fifteen year old executed for prostitution in this country.

[genieroze]

38. Only in Bushland, oops I forgot it is HIS country.

Bought and paid for by people like his friends at Enron and Unholyburton.

[roguevalley]

94. Its never right to execute anyone, let alone mentally ill people.

I hate it when people do this kind of flipping around. Just because a person expresses revulsion about some other country's dumbassery doesn't mean they don't feel it for their own. Both countries are full of shit for doing this, Iran and the USA.

[BayCityProgressive]

5. what a bunch of fucking nuts

This is just another example of religion being used to keep women (usually the victim) down. This is so disgusting. If we as a country are going to threaten force against other nations it should be for reasons like this. Some type of international boycott and pressure is needed to end these injustices.

[Deja Q]

7. But invasion will be so much more fun. Who needs bogus reports on nukes?

The public willing gave * the concept of "altruistic liberation" (:eyes:), so now * feels he can use the same song and dance whenever he likes. As will his alliesy Britain.

[Judi Lynn]

27. I don't think I'll ever get over those Iraqis throwing tiny babies

out of their incubators! By Golly, I'm still overwrought! May _{George Bush's} god bless him.

Hearing any story, real or created by our own propagandists and slyly placed outside the U.S. in a foreign source to be "discovered" and printed here, about savagery amongst furriners pumps me up and makes me wild for war! Whoopeee! How else will _Bush get the nation's emotionalism needed to overlook the details when he wants to devastate another country?

[geek tragedy]

54. Women are abused across the globe. Feminists and human rights activists

take their opppression a lot more seriously than you do.

It must be nice to live in a world where there is no theocratic oppression outside the borders of the US.

[ElectroPrincess]

17. I hear Saudi Arabia is just as cruel to their women ...

How 'bout we invade Saudi Arabia first?

[Cheswick2.0]

86. we don't attack other countries for killing and torturing women

We don't care about the lives of women. Even some liberals will tell you that we should respect the customs of other countries. Even some liberals don't care about the lives of women. That is the sad fact.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

69. They also kill girls who have been raped.

Been doing it for years. And no one says much about it.
Duckie

[clem_c_rock]

76. Please wake up - IT'S CALLED P.R.0.P.A.G.A.N.D.A

Oh I forgot Americans don't do that.

[Cheswick2.0]

88. like I said

even some liberals don't care about the treatment of women in the world.

[clem_c_rock]

98. Oh Really? How 'bout you back that up

In fact I care greatly. How 'bout this ad a way to show I care about the treatment of woman in the world: We could start by getting the fuck out of all countries where we invade, prop up puppet regimes, destroy their economies and politics, and steal their resources. Imagine how many woman would be treated much better if their houses were'nt being rained on by american bombs?

Also, do you really want to talk about human rights in our country?

Genocide anyone?

http://www.unobserver.com/index.php?pagina=layout4.php&id=1788&blz=1
http://www.unobserver.com/layout5.php?id=1763&blz=1

Take care of your own trash in your backyard before you clean someone else's

From a Social Worker

[LynnTheDem]

2. Funny how for 20 years we never heard dick about Iran...

And suddenly we hear every nasty thing going...IF it's against women.

Reminds me of the "poor Afghani women" and "poor Iraqi women" mantras we heard so much of right before invading and occupying and bombing the crap out of Afghanistan & Iraq.

Could a majority of Americans really be so duped and conned a THIRD time?

Probably.

[EFerrari]

8. Boy, is that true

In August, Bushco is negotiating with the Taliban. By October, we're bombing those "poor Afghan women" -- who were less safe after the war because we disrupted the tribal structures that gave them what little measure of security they had.

[leftynyc]

67. I detest * as much as anyone on this board, however

those Afghani women were living as virtual slaves under the Taliban. Let's not rewrite history.

[Cheswick2.0]

89. excuse me but that is a side issue

The fact is women are being treated this way around the world.

[bloodyjack]

14. Those 'poor Iraqi women' were actually the most liberated in the M.E.

under Hussein's reign. I must admit however that I'd never read about oppressed Iraqi women until AFTER the insurgency picked up pace and stories were published about attacks on girls walking in public without jubah or head scarf etc.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

70. Yep....

All this proved is that Saddam Hussain had to rule with an iron fist because if you don't, that country loses it's mind, because the fundies don't get it at all. They will kill you just as soon as look at you if you're not a muslim or following their law. And they've so perverted the Islamic religion, it's gross.
And I want it pointed out that I didn't say all muslims, but the fundamentalists that like to blow themselves and others up.
Duckie

[cali]

18. It's true that the media is playing these stories up

but some of us have long cared about the fate of women and children under Sharia law. These stories whether out of Nigeria or Iran or Afghanistan have been around for a long time. In no way should they be used as cover for an invasion. At the same time, we shouldn't ignore the real cruelty imposed on women in Afghanistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia or anyplace else that they're subject to inhumane treatment predicated on gender.

[emad]

19. Maybe in the US yes, but in the UK the stories of sex abuse of

minors, rape, torture and execution have been flowing hard and fast for over 20 years.

The 2003 Nobel Peace Prize campaign that resulted in Shirin Ebadi, human rights/children's rights lawyer being awarded the top prize emanated from a strong campaign started in the UK.

[Solly Mack]

23. Yes, outside of America these stories were easier to find

and Americans had to dig to find this kind of information.

Please understand, people aren't hardened to the plight of women around the world....we are hardened against the tactics used by our own government.

We want to help people...really help them......not bomb them into oblivion. Which is all our government seems to know how to do....and they do this on the backs of oppressed women.

[emad]

74. UK charity Amnesty nternational has been publishing annual

reports on sex abuse, torture and executions of children in Iran since the early 1980s. At first much of this was kept confidential for fear of exacerbating the situation although by 1988 the tide of horror coming out of Tabriz and Isfahan was so bad that the first official report was made public and said that an estimated 40% of all children under 16 were routinely exploited for sex by those who couldn't/wouldn't be involved in the heroin trade and looked to vice as an alternative source of income.

The last Amnesty report I saw said that up to 60,000 under 14year olds of both sexes had received dranconain Sharia court-imposed sentences for being invloved in paedophile exploitation during 1996-1999. Can't remember the actual breakdown but up to 40% of all sentenced had either been flogged and/or incarcerated for their alleged offences. None had had any form of legitimate legal representation in court.

Amnesty campaigned tirelessly for Shirin Ebadi to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for her fearless work representing women and children in the sharia courts.

[Solly Mack]

79. I know. But honestly, many Americans just never bother to look

for such reports. Some really don't care. I wish with every fiber of my being that this wasn't so, but it is true of many Americans. These same Americans that don't care, will jump on the "save the women" bandwagon simply because their political demi-gods find it a handy excuse for their agenda.

They feel safely removed from the carnage because it's not happening to them. They also think it could never happen to them because "this is America."

It's like women who blame the victim of rape....their denial is a defense mechanism. If the person it happened to was somehow "bad", then it can't happen to them (because they are "good") America is their "good girl"...so they feel safe in their ignorance.

They really don't get that every such act diminishes our humanity. That we are each others keeper. Not to dictate to, but to help secure a better passage through life; free of torture, abuse, rape, hunger, discrimination, persecution...the lists goes on and on.


I had a friend from Iran back in the early 80's. Just arrived with her family. They left after the Shah was kicked out. She told me lots of stories of what can and does happen to women in Iran. In fact, her family left to protect the daughters....the father said as much.

[emad]

82. I first visited Iran when I was six....a long time ago! From what I

remember is that peasant communities were entrenched in secrecy when it came to what goes on in average families. Things sometwhat better in cities.

When I was 18 I visited Tehran and Isfahan and saw an 11 year old boy hanged for some unspecified crime.

Shirin Ebadi has said things have not really changed in the last 40 years in Iran because deeply entrenched tribal mores continually cover up abuse and the Sharia courts don't want to lose their conservative image.

[Solly Mack]

90. How do you win against the tribe?

Especially when abuse is backed by law.

I don't see any short term solutions to this. No quick fixes.

Invasion wouldn't help...just look at America. Look at Iraq.

The Christian right feels persecuted by the left (no matter how untrue), and they just got more entrenched in their "tribe".

In Iraq, it's not that people thought Saddam was great, it's matter of seeing one's beliefs challenged and threatened by an "outsider." Seeing the torture and all that death just solidfies these feelings.

Yes,(some of) those in power, or (some of) those wishing to gain power, stoke those kinds of feelings and use them to further agendas of their own. Agendas that are more concerned with maintaining a powerbase than with the people's needs.

I fear for what may arise in Iraq as a result of all of this. I fear America has created a situation she isn't equipped to deal with...because she doesn't understand her own history of "tribal" thinking....how can she possibly grasp anyone elses?

How do we stop these abuses without causing people to feel they're being stripped of their beliefs?

Do we have to strip them of their beliefs to change the way they think about women? children? even men?

I sometimes wonder if we just see/judge the rest of the world through our "western" eyes. I also know that I don't believe, no matter what the culture, that killing women for imagined crimes against honor, or a religion, is "right"...or that killing children or men (for much the same reason) is "right"...it's just plain wrong.

[saigon68]

57. THE SHEEP WILL BE CONNED A THIRD TIME

They are stupid slugs who cheer outside the Peterson murder trial.

Every Dictator and Murderous Thug who came to power can thank nitwits like these.

[LynnTheDem]

61. the road to Hell is paved with good intentions

Americans mean well, most of them. But it's damn unfortunate that Americans don't realize a few FACTS before jumping on the latest bandwagon;

1. People DO NOT LIKE IT when we interfere WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

2. Our culture and our views of what is and isn't "right" and "just" and "moral" IS NOT always the same views held by a majority of others in a nation. It is NOT OUR RIGHT to determine what views and morals and laws other nations must have.

3. America SUCKS at any kind of humanitarian work. WE MAKE THINGS WORSE. Current examples; Afghanistan and Iraq. The national affliction of Attention Deficit Disorder is the #1 reason why America fails time & again; bomb them...invade and occupy them...kill them...announce "freedom reigns"...and walk away, leaving a bigger mess than before.

4. Invasions and occupations ARE NOT, DO NOT, NEVER WILL BE "humanitarian", "liberation" or "freedom". Even the most oppressed people will fight AGAINST INVADERS.

5. STOP OVERTHROWING democratically-elected leaders and installing dictators in their place. America did this again just last year.

6. You JUST DON'T BOMB other people's kids and expect to be thanked for "spreading democracy".

7. If America really gives a shit about women's rights, WHY does America REFUSE to sign the Women's Bill of Rights treaty??? America is THE ONLY industrialized nation that has refused to sign.

Only two countries in the world have refused to sign the Convention on the Rights of the Child -- Somalia and the United States.

Most Americans may mean well...but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

[leftynyc]

66. Excuse me but the womens groups in this country

WERE talking about the poor Afghani women long before 9/11. As a New Yorker and a women, I had no problem when we started kicking the shit out of the Taliban.

[geek tragedy]

100. Indeed. The NGO my fiancee was working for in 2000 was chomping

at the bit for somebody to take the Taliban out.

[prodigal_green]

92. Feminists were actively opposing the Taliban

before 9/11. There were several online petitions (ineffective I know) going around to put pressure on the US Government to stop doing business with the Taliban and address the human rights issues in Afghanistan.

Women are grievously abused or killed for what we would consider minor crimes or to pay for the crimes of others in Saudi Arabia, Jordan (honor killings), North and West Africa (genital mutilation), and yes, Iran as well as a whole list of other countries around the world.

BTW, the only two countries on this planet that judicially execute minors: The United States and Iran. I'd like to see the practice halted in both.

Just because the chimpministration is throwing it up as a smokescreen for invasion doesn't mean it isn't happening. If we attack Iran, you can be sure that women will be no better off afterwards.

[leesa]

3. This isn't one of Neil Bush's girls, is it?

Well, obviously we need to carpet bomb Iran.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

24. No, his were Asian

Thai, I believe.

[Deja Q]

6. It's not even a mercy killing. It's about their 'morality'. And BTW,

expect more anti-Iran articles to come up, shortly before the invasion because we gots to liberate them.

From both the US and the UK - and golly gadzooks and kneeslapping fun, that's a UK article thar.

[LynnTheDem]

20. THAT'S what pisses me off about this; it's just PROPAGANDA.

The media didn't give a shit about women in Iraq or Iran or Afghanistan, and they STILL don't give a shit about the women in one of THE MOST OPPRESSIVE SOCIETIES; SAUDI ARABIA.

15 of the 19 hijackers were SAUDI; NONE were Iraqi. SAUDI does everything Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan does...and MORE.

But nope we won't hear dick about that, with bush being in bed with the Saudis and all.

WHY don't we hear one word about the women in Afghansitan any more? They are WORSE OFF now than they were in 2000. But that war is "over" so we don't hear dick.

WHY don't we hear one word any more about THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 911 ATTACKS??? THREE YEARS LATER, he's a free man and BUSH says he DOESN'T CARE about him.

IRAN is changing their death penalty law to apply ONLY to people over 18; WHEN WILL AMERICA do likewise? WHEN will AMERICA stop executing CHILDREN?

USING adn CHERRY-PICKING people's misfortunes for propaganda purposes. Sick.

[cali]

26. Women are not worse off now than under the Taliban

Yes, it's still bad for most women but it's not the same as the sytemic state enforced oppression of women under the Taliban. Try reading some accounts of life under the Taliban. It was a truly grotesque government.

[LynnTheDem]

29. Guess you missed the news

Karzai is bringing the Taleban back into Afghanistan government. And if you think the Taleban were bad, check out life for women under the drug war lords who now rule every province in Afghanistan that the Taleban don't.

[cali]

33. Many of the drug lords

are the same warlords who were in power both before the Taliban and in areas the Taliban didn't control during during their time in power. Vile players, no doubt. But under the Taliban women were not allowed to attend school, could rarely get medical attention, couldn't work or travel outside of the home without a male relative. Women, even if it's in extremely limited parts of the country, can now attend school, move more freely, work, get medical attention and are less subject to STATE sponsored mistreatment. No, the law doesn't adequately protect them and most of the country is lacking in protections for women, but it's a start, and yes I'd argue that women are better off now.

[LynnTheDem]

34. not true, regardless how many times bush says it is.

In Afghanistan: Poverty, Women's Rights and Civil Disruption Worse than Ever

The Nation covered the failure of women's rights to materialize after the U.S. invasion. Despite the fanfare (stripping the Burqa, the signing of the "Declaration of Essential Rights of Afghan Women"), little has changed for the average Afghani woman. Many women have yet to stop wearing the burqa due to fear of persecution and the new Interior Ministry still requires women to receive permission from their male relatives before they travel.

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/9.html

Human Rights Watch World Report 2004: Losing the Peace in Afghanistan

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:oJBPyaoI_0MJ:www.hrw.org/wr2k4/5.htm+Afghanistan+women+worse+off%3B+2004&hl=en

RAWA.org: Afghan Women No Better Off

http://www.rawa.org/election-w.htm

Women Failed by Progress in Afghanistan
Amnesty International, 28 October 2004

A large number of women in Afghanistan continue to be imprisoned for committing so-called "zina" crimes. A female can be detained and prosecuted for adultery, running away from home or having consensual sex outside marriage, which are all referred to as zina crimes. The major factor preventing victims of rape complaining to the authorities is the fear that instead of being treated as a victim, they themselves will be prosecuted for unlawful sexual activity.

Violence against women is widespread, but it is still seen as a private matter.

http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/480fa8736b88bbc3c12564f6004c8ad5/07dc999832c68182c1256f3b004c6ec8?OpenDocument

In Search of Freedom, Afghan Wives Make a Grisly Choice

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A3618-2004Oct27?language=printer

[Porcupine]

97. Pure Bushco propoganda; Afghanistan is back to square one

as far as women are concerned with the negligable exception of those women who are A) wealthy B) have liberal families and C) living in Kabul.

Outside of the tiny minority of wealthy, liberal, educated women living in Kabul the women in Afghanistan are chattel. I'm sure that daughters are traded and sold not 20 miles from Kabul and there is absolutely no hope for these girls for help from the government or U.S. troops.

The effect of the "war on terra" has been to marginalize those people who lived in Muslim countries and advocated broad, modest, reforms. It is pure death now to be a liberal in Iran. Thanks to the U.S.

[Zhade]

50. Yes, because being raped with knives by warlords is so much better.

:eyes:

Can we say "equally bad"? I know I can.

[geek tragedy]

55. Yes, the passing of the Taliban was a real tragedy for women in

Afghanistan.

Fact: Any progress or hope for women in Afghanistan meant that the Taliban needed to be overthrown.

There is at least hope that things will improve--that hope was not present when the Taliban were in power.

[Zhade]

56. But that wasn't what I said, as you well know.

Any progress or hope for women in Afghanistan meant that the Taliban needed to be overthrown.

I agree. Never said otherwise, never would. But just because the Taliban was horrendous (which they certainly were and still are) does not mean that the opium-funded Northern Alliance warlords are automatically better.

Sheesh, that's an easy one. We're on the same page here.

[LynnTheDem]

58. The Taleban are back

They were never gone to begin with, except in Kabul. Now they're again in control of several provinces in Afghanistan, Karzai wants Taleban allowed back into government, and bush is offering the Taleban amnesty.

Afghanistan was bombed by bush because they "refused to hand over Osama bin Laden".

Now OBL is in Pakistan, and Pakistan refuses to allow the US in to hunt him down. bush Admin says aww shucks, hunt for OBL is abandoned.

So many people killed for absolutely nothing.

[Zhade]

60. Oh yeah. That job was never finished, either, thanks to invading Iraq.

I did not agree with carpet-bombing Afghanistan, but at least finish the job you started with the Taleban!

[LynnTheDem]

62. ADD; America's SOP.

The world knows it, which is a big part of why the majority of the world opposed bush's attacking Afghanistan in the first place.

America doesn't really give a shit about anyone else. If they did, they'd force bush to sign the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Isn't it funny how only 2 nations have refused to sign; Somalia and the USA.

[geek tragedy]

99. They have a less firm grip on power. That makes them automatically

better, objectively if not necessarily subjectively.

If that makes any sense at all.

[Zhade]

103. Ah. Interesting observation.

I think I understand what you're saying, and it makes some sense, I must agree.

[Solly Mack]

10. Oh, how western countries care....

just before the bombing starts

[emad]

21. Bit blase, that. Remember Shirin Ebadi won last year's Nobel

Peace Prize for her campaigning work for kids l=just like tis one that's being offered up as human sacrifice to the court of Sharia law.

[Solly Mack]

28. Not the least bit blase. I am angry.

Angry beyond measure. I know things like this happen..and have been happening for years upon years.

I also know the American government couldn't care less. They will use this example as an excuse to invade. They have proven that. They'll hold these women and young girls up as examples as to why "we must do something" and then they'll cause more harm than good. Then they'll go on to showcase a few rare exceptions as proof they accomplished some good, then turn their backs on the rest of them.

I'm sick of it all.

[emad]

73. Well, given the enormous expensive mess Shrub is making in

Iraq, I doubt if there's the extra $$$$$$$$$$$, manpower or political motivation to go next door and beat up the neighbours.....

[Solly Mack]

81. That's just it, Shrub doesn't consider those factors

If he had, we never would have been in Iraq.

Shrub is a walking time-release bomb...we never really know when he'll explode next.

I would wager that an Iran invasion does not happen either...but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Maybe an incredibly shrinking dollar or two.

[emad]

11. Where is Shirin Ebadi, winner of 2003 Noel Peace Prize and

awesome campaigning Iranian lawyer???

http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/2003/

[neweurope]

15. Erm - you mean the woman who is not allowed to publish in the US?

[Walt Starr]

12. This is not different than pushing for imposition of Levitical law

Religious fundamentalism is wrong, regardless of the religion.

[Bridget Burke]

13. I'm sure bombing, invasion & occupation will solve her problems.

This is a dreadful situation but I agree that we're being fed these stories to excuse imperialism.

[sam sarrha]

16. Praise Allah... he is merciful, and i am sure will take care of her in

heaven .. Just like our god takes care of all the Prisoners in custody we kill, Hallelujah !! Our god is better.. a bit jealous, but no one is perfect.. no pun intended.

[da_chimperor]

25. This one event makes the case for why fundamentalism is bad. n/t

[sam sarrha]

30. here is a good article about Islamic law... at least on a village level

http://iht.com/articles/541121.html

[neweurope]

31. This is truly terrible. And there really has to be done much more for

the rights of opressed females worldwide.

But what strikes me most here is that the US really seem to gear up for war in Iran. Everyday we read something now. And that scares me very much.

[GOPBasher]

32. This will be the United States soon!

Yippee!!!!! The theocracy is coming. I'm so happy. Pretty soon, mentally ill, teenage girls who are sold against their will for sex will be put to death for prostitution -- Right here in the United States!!

Heil, Dictator Falwell!!!

[Swamp Rat]

39. Don't forget Pat Robertson!

[Judi Lynn]

40. Especially good one! He's looking holier than usual. n/t

[daleo]

35. Bush poisoned the well with his invasions

Now people are now (correctly) suspicious of the truth of every story coming out of countries on his hit list. Even if their truth is established, people are (correctly) suspicious of the motivation behind the story. This is the result of rule by liars.

[gardenista]

36. Ok, so we have a pending execution of a mentally retarded person. Check

And a mentally retarded person being brutally exploited sexually. Check.

What makes this story so special? The same thing happens here in the US. This story, as horrible as it is, is propaganda.

Bush executed a mentally retarded inmate in Texas. And the sexual exploitation of young women, especially those who are mentally disabled is a daily fact of life here.

[FuzzySlippers]

71. Huh? How do you conflate these things?

Here a mentally retarded person is being sentenced to death BECAUSE she's sexually exploited. And I'm not in favor of the mentally retarded being executed in this country. In fact, I'm anti-death penalty. But this is hardly analagous to anything that goes on in the United States.

[genieroze]

37. OMG!

:puke:

[Nordic]

41. pre-invasion propaganda

trying to make Iran look like a bunch of wild-eyed crazy fanatics.

Which many of them may be, but we have them here, too.

This story is designed to hit you emotionally.

It's being presented to you on purpose.

Don't fall for it.

[Judi Lynn]

45. Exactly right. Some don't seem capable of grasping it

but it needs to be pointed out. One day maybe they'll finally see they've been manipulated.

Quicker ones will start seeing the patterns.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. Interesting

I find it interesting that girls can be executed at a younger age than boys. I think that is the most telling thing about the way they view women.

[Megahurtz]

43. I guess Bush is

getting ready to invade Iran at EVERYONE'S expense, even mentally ill children forced into prostitution.

Gee, ya think there's oil in there? :evilgrin:

[NVMojo]

44. people who sit around and judge a person like this, so harshly...

can only be anything less then a freaking pervert.

[Skarbrowe]

46. I might not be on the same page here, but I don't think this article

has anything to do with this administrations push for war in Iran. It appears to be just like many other articles we have seen from countries around the world that treat women like crap for whatever reason they choose. Have we ever even discussed going to war with a country because of it's treatment of their women? EVER? I know that we did eventually go into Kosovo because of ethnic genocide or cleansing and we did hear about many, many Muslim women being raped by Serbs because it was the worst thing they could do to them. If a Muslim woman was raped they were at the very least disowned by their families.

Nah, the horrible, sickening, EVIL treatment of women has never been a reason or an excuse for any country to go to war as far as I know. I would love to be proven wrong.

[Nordic]

47. it was a big part of the pre-Afghanistan invasion propaganda

you might recall the documentaries and the news stories and the websites, a whole lotta hype about the treatment of women in Afghanistan including pirated video of women being executed in the soccer stadium.

In Kuwait, we had babies being ripped out of incubators by Iraqi soldiers (which turned out to be fiction)

[Skarbrowe]

51. I remember all the women ( Jay Leno's wife ) and other groups

trying to get the word out on the Taliban and it's treatment of women. At the time I was very interested in this TV show called Xena and I remember wanting there to be a few hundred of her to go and wipe out the Taliban. BUT, our government was trying to get an oil pipeline through their country and I don't think the government cared all that much about what the Taliban were doing to their women. The pipeline deal fell through, some Saudi's supposedly under the influence of bin Laden flew into the WTC and THEN we went to war with Afghanistan. I don't recall one hint of war with them until after 9/11. All I remember is the world being upset when the Taliban blew up the giant Buddhas in the desert. Still, I'm not 100 percent certain, but I don't think anyone talked about going over and kicking out the Taliban. I could be wrong.

The treatment of women really hasn't been a major go to war incentive. Sometimes I wish it would be.

[Speed8098]

52. "I don't recall one hint of war with them until after 9/11"

I guess you don't remember * offering them a "Carpet of Gold or a Carpet of Bombs" in reference to the pipeline deal.

That sure sounds like a "hint" of war to me.

[Skarbrowe]

96. No, I didn't remember that exact phrase. Thanks. It wasn't about women.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think we would have gone to war with Afghanistan over the Taliban's treatment of women. I think I've lost the point of the whole discussion. Oh, yeah. Some people think that this article about the awful tragedy of this Iranian child is a build up to us invading, uh hem..going to war with Iran. I'm only trying to point out that we have heard horror stories about how badly women are treated in many, many places on this planet and we have never gone to war because of that particular problem.

Wait. My head is spinning. I'm not arguing against us using ANY excuse, reason, whatever you want to call it, if * does want to go to war with Iran. Again, just saying that I don't think an article about their horrid treatment of women, at least this article, is a PURPOSEFUL plant to stir up emotional reasons to do this. The knowledge of how they treat women, and how a good portion of the world treats women is already out there.

It's just an opinion. But, I do see how people can make that assumption. Yep. This administration is capable of anything.

[LynnTheDem]

59. Mrs. bushit went on and on and on about the oppressed women in Afghanistan

How we had to liberate them.

The name of the invasion is OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM.

The official reason was because the Taleban refused to hand OBL over...but Americans weren't gung ho enough for that. So bushCartel resorted to "spreading freedom and democracy" as their unofficial rhetoric for invading & killing a lot of civilians.

Both reasons, of course, being total bullshit.

The official reason for invading & occupying & killing a lot of civilians in Iraq? "immediate threat" and "WMD".

And Iraq's unofficial reason for invasion & occupation and killing a lot of civilians? Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Both reasons, of course, being total bullshit.

[saigon68]

65. maybe MRS " SHIT FOR BRAINS" should ask Bandar's wives----

Why in Saudi they are not allowed to drive a car or walk on the streets with out a God-Awful Blanket and a diaper on their heads.

Ogh I forgot those are our ALLIES in the WAR on TERRA

Maybe the Fact that Bandar and his THUGS who own 3 Trillion dollars of Amerika's phony bonds have something to do with it.

This article is designed to attract support from the sheep for the next INVASION outrage

[prayin4rain]

48. So gross, I swear what the hell is wrong with people?

This sitaution is strange too because EVERYONE (mother, the men, the court system) in it is so horribly wrong except for the person getting in trouble. I swear people never cease to amaze me. I have to start balancing all the bad news I read with some good news.

[Judi Lynn]

49. No one can force people to pay attention to what has been happening

nor to have read the many, many articles over the YEARS of stories being created right here in the States, in the State Department, and/ or in the Defense Department, even down to small details like bogus letters to the editor (Otto Reich, Office of Public Diplomacy, State Department, Reagan Presidency) all the way to Donald Rumsfeld's Department which actually TOLD people it has created bogus stories and placed them in papers overseas, which are then picked up and fed to us, as well as anyone else.

No one can force people to notice the pattern, to notice the tone, the wording, the calculation which goes into these stories to elicit the highest possible outrage and horror has a formulaic design. They are written to "mold public perception." This is public knowledge to those of us who have actually had no choice by mere consciousness but to be aware of this.

Now how anyone could have avoided noticing is simply beyond me. Drunk for decades? Absorbed in escape novels? Jesus H. Christ in a gocart.

Oh, but the Iranian people are savages. Hell, let's just wipe them from the face of the earth, why not? Remember, we can turn Iran into a sheet of glass, yadda, yadda, yadda.

To NOT HAVE EVER NOTICED? Keerist. Go sit in the slow learner's section. That would be Freeperville.

Thanks.

Yours truly,

Judi Lynn

[geek tragedy]

53. Yes, let's just ignore the brutal oppression of women in other places.

Real feminists were raising holy hell about the Taliban well before 9/11, and they have also been raising it about the evil regime in Iran for decades.

I place Bush's propagandists and those on the left who think we should ignore the plight of these women on the same moral plane.

[leftynyc]

68. I'm in total agreement with you

Just because * is an asshole doesn't mean we should ignore the situation women face in these countries.

[makhno]

77. You miss the point

The question is not whether acknowledging the oppression of women in Iran is important, the question is why we are all of a sudden being innundated with stories of Iranian malfeasance.

The tenor and particularly the growing frequency of anti-Iranian stories have a very clear political purpose, and it isn't to raise Americans' gender consciousness. Failure to acknowledge that provides undeserved legitimacy to the government's attempts to implicate the US in yet another criminal war.

[leftynyc]

87. I understand the point

All I'm saying is to not dismiss these stories because there is an agenda behind them. These women truly are suffering. Women always suffer under religious fundamentalism - no matter what religion.

[Triana]

63. GWB would do this here...

...if he could get away with it. And, maybe he can. Keep an eye on your daughters. They may be sold for sex chattel then punished because of it. I could easily see GWB and some of his extremeist followers going this direction. Hell. They already are. Trying to outlaw abortion and birth control. What's next?

[bobthedrummer]

64. Here's a recent report on US school sexual assaults

it's not just girls being victimized and the perpetrators can be females.

10% of US students are sexually abused. That's how it is under Bus*.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1263844,00.html

[emad]

104. Thanks Bobthedrummer. Your posts are always well researched

and champion the rights of those who suffer sex torture and abuse at the hands of cynical violators.

[bleedingheart]

72. Tell me why Sharia even exists ???

Because the men use it to their advantage and the women go along for the ride because they are raised to be chattel or they don't have the desire to fight the system...because in those countries it would mean death or prison.

[clem_c_rock]

75. SEE - WE HAVE TO BOMB THESE PEOPLE TOO!

This gets more pathetic each day.

Can we just start the Draft now and quit pretending it's not going to happen.

Wake the F*** up People!

[pinniped]

78. There are a lot of these type of stories coming out of Iran lately.

They must have had some old stories with Iraq and they just changed the country.

Wait until the Merikans hear North Korea starves their populace and their leader spends thousands a year on cognac. Their time for liberation will come soon enough.

[emad]

80. They have been coming out of the UK via Amnesty International

for over 20 years now but are getting more coverage in the US today.

[pinniped]

83. Got it, the US should run stories on Saudi Arabia too.

.

[emad]

84. In 1980 UK publisher Middle East Economic Digest published the

M.E.E.D. Business Guide to Saudi Arabia. It erroneously listed up to 40 restaurants/health facilities that turned out to be paedophile brothels regularly frequented by US and UK expats working for Aramco, banks and the military....
The whole thing got hushed up because one of these brothels had an official US-embassy pic of Ronnie Reagan in its inner atrium where members had to sign the guest book when registering.....

[pinniped]

85. Thanks for the info and it doesn't surprise me one bit.

.

[Forkboy]

91. Well,we have no choice but to invade now

We must save these babies in the incubators...er,these people from being put into mass graves...er,what were we talking about again?

[proudbluestater]

93. You mean there is a retarded female that Bush didn't execute first?

If it's okay for Texas to execute the mentally ill, why do we hear about Iran?

The neocons have their propaganda machine in full swing.

News Flash: US officials = WAR CRIMINALS. Don't ask THEM to champion any human rights issues with their bombs. They don't understand the concept of human rights, only abuse and removal of rights. Bringing "democracy" to the world while taking it away in their own country. Yeah, you want them on your side all right.

[m0nkeyneck]

95. sick freaks

[burrowowl]

101. Sounds like

Bu$h's Texas and Bu$h.
Of course if we invade Iran, this will no longer happen (sarcasm).

[ConsAreLiars]

102. Sharia Law, Fundie Dominionism - The only difference

is that the fanatics have already consolidated power in Iran and we in the US still have a chance to defeat them. Sharia law is the same as the law the so-called christians like chimpy or Dobson or Falwell or Graham or Robertson would impose here. See them now, see US tomorrow.