New Gallup Poll Raises Questions About Media Focus on 'Values'

[NVMojo]

in other words, another Rove lie debunked...but we already knew this was a lie ....

rate this one up!

NEW YORK In the aftermath of the Nov. 2 election, the press and various political partisans jumped on exit polls that seemed to suggest "moral values" was the top issue in voters' minds as they re-elected President George W. Bush (news - web sites). Some analysts have questioned that notion, but a new nationwide Gallup Poll, released Tuesday morning, could deal a death blow to the whole idea.

more...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=90&e=2&u=/ep/20041214/en_bpiep/newgalluppollraisesquestionsaboutmediafocusonvalues

[stlsaxman]

1. 5 n/t

[Sporadicus]

2. Done

kick

:kick:

[TheDonkey]

3. I wonder though.

I don't think Kerry would have lost if most voters cared about the economy. I do think that most Americans care about the economy, Iraq, and jobs but they just didn't vote or were overwhelmed by the extremist vote this time.

[NVMojo]

5. good point, TheDonkey

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. Or perhaps the vote count was rigged? That's why they needed

the bogus 'values' vote, to explain people voting against their own clear interests.

IMHO, this is just more evidence that a significant number, 3-5% of Repuke votes, were created by the vote counters.

[UltraDem]

30. I dunno....

I'm no Bush-lover, but I'm just having a hard time believing anyone could fake 60 million votes.....

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. No need to fake 60 million -- 3 million would do.

That's just 60,000/state. Average 100 counties per state, that's 600 per county.

Does that seem impossible?

[UltraDem]

33. Hmmmm...

that's still 50 * 100 = 500 counties. That's a lot of coordination. If it's true, then this thing is truly the single biggest conspiracy in history... and this is coming from someone who is *convinced* JFK was murdered by the CIA & the Mob. I'm not saying it's impossible. It just seems too huge.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. I know it may sound all tinfoil-hatty,

but the point is that overall, the big numbers break down to pretty small numbers.

Here in NC a vote machine 'glitch' erased 4600 votes in Carteret county, which put it well above the 600 vote average, allowing for 6 or 7 other counties to not need tampering. At that rate, just 15 or 16 other counties, out of NCs 102, could make up the alottment for the state. No need to mess with all elections everywhere. Just the right ones, where the numbers would be easiest to hide.

All it would take is collusion between the techs who service the vote counting computers and a very few others. Less than half a dozen people per state.

As Stalin said, it doesn't matter who votes. It's who counts the votes.

[UltraDem]

49. Yeah, but...

are those 4600 votes all Democrats. See, there's a difference between erasing votes and adding votes.

Wouldn't you need to be specific about whose vote you're either erasing or adding or changing?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just a bit foggy at what is being suggested in very specific terms.

About the only way that plan would work (that I can understand with my somewhat limited intelligence) is that anytime a tech would run across a machine that had 600+ Democrat votes *over* Republican votes, they would *accidentally* erase those votes.


So the obvious question would then be: Find all machines that the votes were *accidentally* erased and look at the voter rolls of that county.

Am I on the right track or am I still missing some IQ points?

[Laurab]

59. I think it could easily be done

Simply by programming machines. I know nothing at all about programming, but I've read a little on here and other websites. A simple little formula give a certain percentage of K's votes to * instead. Would you really put anything past this administration? I don't think there'd be any one way to find all the fraud though. Some machines have no paper trail, some have been tampered with. I believe that's why in Kerry's request, he asked to see the calibration of the machines. Unfortunately, they've had way too much time to tamper with that too. I will never believe the vote wasn't rigged - what's one more crime to this administration?

[UltraDem]

64. Easily?

No, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with that contention. "A simple little formula" is just as bad as saying "he waved a magic wand" or "he just twitched his nose" and votes were magically added to Bush's side. As much as I'd like to beat these guys, it has to be done in a believable manner. I'm willing to entertain solid and reasonable explanations as to how they stole it. To simply just say, "the stole it," isn't enough for me.

By the way, I'm a programmer so I have some knowledge as to how it *could* happen.

[LiberalFighter]

66. Gee we have EDS programmers here in our plant...

and they are the dumbest programmers that I know.

[UltraDem]

68. And that means...?

you lost me.

[Ready2Snap]

69. Snap Out of IT !!!!

These responses to the whole "values" smokescreen reminds me of the way Amazon Indians hunt monkeys in the rain forests.

Although they dip their arrows in curare(poison), after being shot the monkeys are often able flee some distance before it takes affect, leaving the hunters empty-handed.
So they tie a strip of cloth to the end of the arrow. When the monkey is shot through by the arrow, the cloth is left sticking out of the hole.
The monkey becomes distracted by the cloth and just sits in the tree trying to pull it out until the poison kicks in and the monkey falls dead at the hunter's feet.

Time to wise up little monkeys!!

[blurp]

63. THOUSANDS of counties conspired together to do this?

And each one had to add 600 votes?

That's one big conspiracy.

[jsascj]

48. He didn't fake 60 mil

He just skimmed about 5 mil

[SoCalDem]

57. 110K "extra votes" x 31 states won = 3.41 million "mandate"

Not all states could safely pony up 110K, but who's gonna recount Texas of Florida...and remember the phony-ass trips the last weeks before the (s)election to Kelli-fore-nyah..and New jersey..(those kamikaze visits would justify some "extra votes")..

Phony mandate to match the phony _pResident

[Overseas]

58. That's what I think-- Rove puts up a reason for MSM to seize upon

>>>Trumpet the values thing, throw anti-gay measures on to lots of ballots-- give the media their talking points and you're good to go.
>>>I fell for the idea that the trashy smear commercials were the reason Max Cleland lost re-election. Didn't realize there was vote manipulation going on til much later.

[dbt]

4. More from the article:

"Asked what they consider the most important problem facing this country today the issue of values was tied for fourth place with unemployment/jobs, with only one in ten of the Gallup sample choosing it. Far ahead, with 23%, was the war in Iraq, followed by terrorism and the economy in general, both at 12%, only then followed by unemployment and values."

:argh:
dbt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. The War in Iraq is #1

and this troubles me more than the values thing, because it implies that a majority of Americans think it is all right to launch a preemptive strike on a country and to commit atrocities in it.

[Mike Niendorff]

9. "#1" was still only 23% of respondents

23% : Iraq
12% : terrorism
12% : unemployment/jobs
10% : "values"

Basically, at least as I read it, this means not even half of Republicans were "values" voters.


MDN

[jenn1977]

53. or you could interpret that another way...

What makes you think that all 23% are in favor of the iraq war? I would think that at least some of those people voted on that issue because they are AGAINST it and know we need a change in leadership to get us the hell out of that mess. That's one of my top reasons for voting for Kerry. (Not that there'd ever be a chance in hell I'd ever vote for Bush regardless)

[Cooley Hurd]

7. Well, "moral values" was at the top of my list...

I just couldn't take any more "immorality."

For example: launching a war and killing 100,000 civilians...

Lying to congress and the American people about said war...

Attemping to introduce legislation that would curtail the rights of many Americans...

This administration is the most morally bankrupt in US history.:grr:

[PunkPop]

13. Exactly

If honesty and integrity were the main issues, * would have lost in a landslide - a large enough margin to counter the vote rigging and voter suppression.

* supporters don't care about "values". They are hypocrites. They care about what is in it for them. They lack a soul and see a reflection of themselves when they look at *. It's a match made in hell.

[UL_Approved]

8. Bush lied and pulled it off

The whole point here is that the "moral majority" isn't really there. Most people swallowed the red Cool-Aid and were led to believe that Kerry was a poorer choice than Bush. You don't want to change horses midstream. That's how Bush got the election close.

Voted 5 with both Yahoo accounts of mine. Kick.

[liberal N proud]

10. What happened is the Gay Rights issues

Have you noticed a sharp decline in any mention of gay rights following the election. If you go back and look, the media covered the gay marriage amendments in various states on a national level. This drove the homophobes and even the not so extremist evangelicals out in droves to vote for what all of them thought was that shrub would protect the "sanctity of marriage"
Now there are more states for them to do this again in the next election, again covering it nationally up to the election, enough to help their candidate.
No it was not values but yes it was their perception of values.

[UltraDem]

32. If you agree on the homophobic vote...

which, in my opinion, is what pushed Bush over the edge, then you have to wonder whether or not Gary Newsome's stand was ill-timed. Or even the Mass. Supreme Court's ruling. I remember groaning after the Mass Supreme Court ruling, knowing it would send the homophobes into a feeding frenzy, much like chuming the waters in a shark infested ocean. Bottomline, I think we could've won this election if we had "timed" certain events better.

[liberal N proud]

44. Just like shooting our selves in the foot

We thought we were trying to make the world a better place for all and the RW ate it up.

[UltraDem]

47. I'm not sure which is more apropos....

"No good deed goes unpunished" or "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[Osamasux]

54. Rove & Co controlled the timing

Don't fret over it, nothing could have been done. They guaranteed that it would be an issue by putting ballot questions about gay marriage in so many states, even though Kerry does not support gay marriage. They made his actual position irrelevant.

They ran a great campaign. Certainly parts were dishonest and criminal, but they ran one of the most focused, organized, professional campaigns in history. They dictated the debate for most of the critical periods, kept us off message and clouded our issues. We got our butts handed to us on message. Not whether the message was right or wrong, just that they got theirs across and we did not.

Despite the lack of a level playing field, they played the media much better than we did. Everything Kerry said was sent back to their rapid response team, analyzed, and answered within hours. That was damned impressive and pretty disheartening. Anytime a story benefiting us got some traction, they worked their asses off to change the discussion. We spent a year on defense, while facing an opponent with an indefensible record. We were outplayed.

They launched right wing radio by focusing seriously on entertainment and market share and delivering ratings. They are doing the same with talk TV. Air America may be right, but it is pretty damned boring half the time. Nobody is going to listen to it who is not already a believer in our message.

If they got away with cheating in Florida and Ohio, it's because they put themselves in a position to be able to do so by winning those governors seats. They focused on winning the state legislature in Texas, in order to redistrict and add congressional seats. That is called having a strong, focused plan and carrying it out. If we don't get some new leadership which is just as focused, we are not going to turn things around.

[Ready2Snap]

67. insect politics

"That is called having a strong, focused plan and carrying it out."

You make it sound as if what they did was "playing by the rules."
It's what Jeff Goldblum in "The Fly" called "insect politics."

They don't see it as anything except all-out war - no rules, no qualms, no mercy. And they don't intend to stop until they totally annihilate the Dem Party.

And the sooner everybody on this blog wakes up to that reality, that we are in a war and not a game of gentlemanly statecraft, we might be able to save ourselves and this country.

[Osamasux]

70. I didn't say they play by the rules.

They don't. They haven't since Nixon. I think we all agree on everything but the timing.

But.......
An initial goal they set was to win control of the Texas state legislature, in order to redraw the congressional districts, enabling them to win some seats they never could have won otherwise. That was a legitimate, worthwhile goal. They focused on it and developed a plan.

While pursuing that goal, the sleazy SOB DeLay and his buddies illegally funneled money into those races. I think his butt belongs in jail over this criminal act and I can't wait for the indictment to be handed down.

That does not change the fact that they set a hard to attain goal, focused on it and accomplished it. They also did a hell of a lot of things in those state races that were not sleazy, just competent and a lot more than anyone ever expected. That is where the lesson we need to learn is.

You are right that they see it as all out war, are completely unscrupulous and are not going to stop. The hard truth then becomes if we stop, we continue to lose.

[texpatriot2004]

11. Done n/t

[KayLaw]

12. The whole thing was stupid from the start

They had to have something to yack about to avoid talking about the exit polls, so they picked and chose from those polls to create their own reality. Like the wild parrots that live around our neighborhood, once one starts screeching, they all follow along.

We have the worst media in the world. They absolutely are abysmal.

[NVMojo]

15. I agree, our media sucks at all levels.

[Cerridwen]

14. Rated it up - n/t

[yorkiemommie1]

16. read and rated '5' n/t

[tom_paine]

17. Of course it was a lie.

Totalitarianism such as that of the Busheviks spits them out almost exculsively.

I have no doubt that millions of Democratic votes were blocked or altered while millions of Bushvik votes were added.

Along with all the other tried and true manual & electronic Disenfanchisement Techniques that have been teseted in 2000 and 2002.

[hoosierblue]

18. Basically, voting according to "values" means

the person couldn't think of a real reason for voting for Bush. Can't blame them, tho. There aren't any.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

23. hee, hee, hee

Very, very true.

[alaintex]

19. Polls, what good are the polls

We had exit polls that showed Kerry winning all day on Nov. 2 and they were wrong, those polls said "values" were an issue, now a new poll says that was wrong too. Which stupid poll should a person believe?

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Both polls were right. The vote stealing makes them look wrong.

Believe the polls, don't believe the repukes.

[VTHoosierPatriot]

20. Aghh

Other than the insular minority of abortion fanatics and homophobes (which I like to call Utah), who votes on a single issue anyway? I am so frustrated with our media trying to boil every issue into a five word headline or a thirty second soundbite and then acting like this simple observation is the "answer" to a complex situation.

[Barkley]

21. "exit polls that seemed to suggest ..." that Kerry won!

They media has faith in these polls but not the ones showing Kerry winning in Ohio and Fl.

Double standard!

The whole "moral values" is farce because the religious right is not as unified as they seem and Americans will rebel when they try to impose a theocracy.

Yeah, they can beat up on gays, but high school bullies do that...

Secondly, Bush doesn't reciprocate: no quid quo pro. He used the gay marriage when it was strategically beneficial. He says God is telling him to invade Iraq. But its only a show to get what he wants.

Finally, the religious right is not all that united; they all don't follow the same religous rules or even go the same church.

And when one of the TV fundies falls from grace (a al Swaggart) they don't come to his defense but fight over who shall inherit the defrocked leader's fiefdom.

[intheflow]

40. I like the point you make:

not all religious conservatives are fundementalist conservatives. This is true, and I think the left alienates some would-be allies in some struggles by lumping them all togther. :(

[Pithy Cherub]

22. Who to trust a Gallup Poll or the MSM?

Now there is an ironic moment to behold. Pot meet kettle...yikes!

[Nordic]

43. The Zogby poll showed the same thing. Link here:

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10389

I trust Zogby way more than Gallup, and we all should know by now that the mainstream media tells us what the RW wants them to tell us.

[Ira]

24. This is good news

As cognitive dissonance about the Iraq War envelops the populace, the Bush approval rating will plummet, along with has ability to pursue his harmful domestic agenda.

[hedda_foil]

25. And "values" definition included ethics, dishonesty, lack of integrity!

"The modest vote for values is all the more surprising because it was broadly define to include a wide range of concerns including ethics, moral, religious/family decline, dishonesty, and lack of integrity."

IOW, the pollsters included the right-wing concerns but asked the question in a way that ANY of us would actually rank quite high.

[Synnical]

28. 5 n/t

[housewolf]

29. Not necissarily how they voted though...

There isn't enough information in this article to tell, but, odd as it may seem, "issues facing the country" today (in mid-December) may not be the same criteria some people used for selecting who they wanted to vote for for president on Nov 2nd.

I'd like to see a poll comparing the two.

[rodeodance]

34. s current average rating is 4.61 with 412 vote(s).

[deadparrot]

35. Damn, I thought we were done with polls

for the next year and a half, at least.

[w4rma]

36. Guns. Illegal immigration. Willingness to fight. Those are the issues that

Dems can improve on. Choice/Freedom to have an abortion is supported by a majority of Americans. Civil unions (*not* gay marriage, however) is supported by a majority of Americans.

And gun rights, being tougher on illegal immigration (not granting amnisty) and willingness to fight (fight Repugs, too) are supported by a majority of Americans. On guns, amnisty for illegals and willingness to fight, Kerry did not do well and Daschle did not do well, Sen. Feingold (who was targeted by Rove) did well, I believe that Sen. Reid will do well.

[donkeyotay]

37. A perfect example of why they shouldn't be called the MSM

They are the GOP media, the Corporate media, and there's nothing mainstream about them.

It's their war, their president.

[Beetwasher]

38. Gee, I Wonder Where The Media Got The Idea That It Was About Values?

You don't think there's some concerted effort at pushing PROPOGANDA, do you? Hmmm, I wonder who would be behind that and what they would have to gain...Nahhh, not with our free press, surely they would never go along w/ something like that! Why, that kinda thinking just might get you labelled a conspiracy nut or something!

[gdub]

39. Moral Values are Dead, Long Live Moral Values... VIST MY BLOG FOR MORE

It seems who won the Presidential election was not the only thing the exit polls got wrong. Perhaps in a few days, we will also discover that the majorty of Americans support equal rights for gays, people of color, and women, that we do not support the war in Iraq, that we do not support the Patriot Act, and that we continue to believe in separation of Church and State. In short, perhaps we will discover that we are in fact "normal" peace-loving Americans after all, that we are, in fact, living through a silent fascist revolution perpetrated by an ideological power-obsessed minority.

PLEASE VISIT MY BLOG FOR MORE:
http://scam-o-rama.blogspot.com

[ExclamationPoint]

46. Great Blog

When I have talked to republicans, they say they like bush for a mix of reasons. Some of it is moral values, though I don't understand why they beleive bush is moral just because he says it is. But also many of them feel that this war is just and right, and they fail to comprehend the fatal error of there being no exit strategy. They were misinformed like children of Africa are malnourished. Some think that it is good to force democracy into a nation whoose citizens are against it. Others are selfish and don't care about the people of Iraq. Still others bought into the bush administration's lie that Kerry would put America in doom. It's not all christian jesus stuff, its other things that are sometimes even more fatal.

[Nordic]

42. I want everyone on DU to read this!

and the Zogby poll which showed the same thing.

QUIT BELIEVING WHAT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA TELLS YOU.

It's usually what the RW HAS TOLD THEM TO TELL YOU.

And we should all forward this information to our "DEMOCRATIC LEADERS"

[hippiegranny]

45. well, thank god

not that I wasn't already on to the scam, but it is good to read that this whole thing is being debunked in an MSM way.

[erpowers]

50. Why So Long

I wonder why it took the media so long to debunk this. I wonder why this was made into an issue in that even among the Bush voters it appears that only 22% of them said values was the reason they voted for Bush. So even among the Bush voters values was not the dominate issue. I am happy that some people are finally putting the real numbers out.

[proudbluestater]

51. Too bad they couldn't add a couple more questions...

(Its current average rating is 4.14 with 531 vote(s).)


Like "Loss of civil liberties of citizens and non-citizens."

I'd put it up there at #1.

[myomy]

52. It got a 5 from me.

.

[durutti]

55. Guess what those "values" were.

2/3 of the values voters listed greed and poverty as their top concerns.

[DSperoRN]

56. any news on New Hampshire recount?

A few weeks ago, Ralph Nader requested and was granted a recount of 8 New Hampshire counties with very suspicious pro-Bush results. On Nov. 23, the Nation ran a story saying the first precinct had been counted and Kerry got 3 more votes.

Nothing since. What happened? Does anybody know?
David
[e-mail]

[rumpel]

60. MSM may have been just been the megaphone of the WH PR machine

[AP]

61. It's amazing how hard the media (eg NPR) is trying to push this theme.

They did a story about the Golden Globe nominees the other day. Rather than talk about the movies that did get nominated, they talked about the one that didn't get nominated -- The Passion. Why is it a story that The Passion (or any movie, for that matter) doesn't get nominated for an award?

When the media is turning down the opportunity to promote the hell out of movies the film industry went to great lenghts to get nominated, you know there's something bigger at stake -- and that is VALUES, and forcing it as a frame for looking at the world (as if only Republicans have them).

Today on Fresh Air they had that interview with that crazy anti-gay RW'er. In and of itself, I wouldn't care so much. But what's fucked up about it is that yesterday the interview was with John Waters.

John Waters -- gay filmmaker. They could have contrasted his interview by interviewing another filmmaker, or an author or an actor or a musician. But nope. They have to have an anti-gay biggot on today just in case people thought NPR was normalizing homosexuality yesterday.

Or maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe The Passion deserved a Golden Globe nomination because it made millions and millions. Maybe the Waters interview yesterday was supposed to make today's Fresh Air sound crazy. I don't know. But I definitely cared more to hear who got nominated than who didn't and I thought today's Fresh Air was an insult to John Waters (the counterargument if you don't like Waters isn't that he's immoral).

[blurp]

62. Iraq most important for country, moral values most important to individual

The surveys are asking two different questions.

What is the most important problem facing the United States?

versus

What is the most important issue to you?

[Dr Ron]

65. Also see Wall Street Journal NBC News polling results

These polls verify thatGeorge Bush has no mandate on his domestic agenda. Some data from the first Wall Street Journal NBC News poll since the election is listed at the Unofficial Kerry for President Blog at
http://kerryblog.blogspot.com