Cahill Admits Underestimating (Swift Boat Veterans) Ads' Impact

[Khephra]

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The campaign manager for Sen. John Kerry's failed presidential bid said Wednesday she regrets underestimating the impact of an attack advertisement that questioned Kerry's Vietnam War record.

Mary Beth Cahill, who spoke at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government with Ken Mehlman, President Bush's campaign manager, said the Massachusetts senator's campaign initially thought there would be "no reach" to the ad from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Instead, the ad, which initially aired in just three states, became a central issue of the campaign, eventually forcing Kerry to personally deny the group's allegations that he did not deserve his combat medals.

"This is the best $40,000 investment made by any political group, but it was only because of the news coverage that it got where it did," she said.

"In hindsight, maybe we should have put Senator Kerry out earlier, perhaps we could have cut it off earlier."

more................

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-bush-kerry-managers,0,7580888.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

Raise your hand if you were one of the people who expressed dismay when you heard that Cahill was involved with the Kerry campaign.

(Raises hand)

[Judi Lynn]

1. Out maneuvered by a bunch of rightwing sleazes

ready to sell their honor to get a good kick at someone who obviously outclasses them. Wonder how many of them were deeply in debt, or were blackmailed, even!

Completely unprepared for a campaign which would stoop so low as to create a total fiction. Dead in the water. Thanks, Mary Beth.

http://www.dw-world.de/dwelle/allgemein/bilder_show/0,3772,11696_1,00.jpg

So sad.

[Skittles]

8. with the full cooperation of the corporate media

nt

[Born Free]

14. "with the full cooperation of the corporate media"

The sad part is that any democrat would be stupid enough to not expect the corporate media to turn on them.

[JI7]

15. they did expect it

[Supersedeas]

21. Yet, she has the courage so show her face and say, 'maybe'

the Texas Rovians must get a kick out of campaign managers who display 'that' kind of certainty and committment toward political warfare.

[politicasista]

63. Whose hand is that?

She and those other pathetic advisors should have been fired before the DNC started. Thanks a lot for running an uneven anti-South campaign.

[ReadTomPaine]

94. So, what is she going to do to correct her error? Is she retiring...

..from politics to allow other, more on the ball strategists to replace her?

<pause>

Ok, everyone can stop laughing now. These people take no responsibility for their failures and have no shame over their ineptitude.

RTP

[Crunchy Frog]

2. I felt dismay

but I bit my tongue and didn't say anything because there was a virtual witch hunt going on against anyone here who had anything critical to say about how Kerry was running his campaign.

I had reservations about alot of Kerry's campaign decisions, but I knew there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it, and I didn't want to have people jumping down my throat, accusing me of being a defeatist or a freeper.

I admire you for having more guts than I did.

[Khephra]

3. Hell, I only did it once here that I remember

and never again, mainly because of the reasons you state.

[okieinpain]

45. what's to fear in here. none of these people know where you live,

hell it's the perfect place to speak your mind.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Cahill and Bob Schrum are miserable failures.

Why would Kerry or his campaign handlers be surprised about the swiftboat vets putting an anti-Kerry ad? They have attacked Kerry every time he has run for political office, going back for 2 decades.

Donna Brazile is another LOSER, but she had not part in the Kerry campaign.

[LittleClarkie]

6. He wasn't surprised, but as Weld pointed out

Kerry would wait for that attack, the pro-Kerry vets would come out in force and save the day, and on they'd go to victory. But then in Massachusetts, I'm sure the media is more friendly.

When the vets came out in Spring, they had no effect. I think the campaign expected that to happen again in August. But August was a slow news month campaign-wise.

I do believe that Kerry should avoid like the plague Massachusett campaign staffers or anyone who was involved in a losing campaign, like Shrum. Perhaps the people who helped him win previously in Mass would be okay, but no Kennedy staff.

What was Cahill's history? Did she have to do with Dukakis'loss?

Why did he get rid of his primary staff again? His campaign had teeth then. Did he start winning primaries because of them, or because he changed staff at a crucial time?

I still say "Good candidate -- lousy PR department"

[IndianaGreen]

61. Candidates should trust their political instincts rather than...

the hired guns. This is particularly true in the case of Kerry, who defeated Bill Weld pretty much on his own. The only candidates that needed to be "handled" are people like Bill Clinton who needed to be protected from himself.

[JI7]

5. wouldn't have mattered

the media had the facts . they wanted to create a story rather than just report what they know to be true. if Kerry had responded they would have said that nobody was talking about the issues(and they did say that when he responded in any way to it and then said he had mental problems).

just as they reported the cbs national guard story in a way to make it look like cbs had made everything up and bush was a victim. even though the facts showed the contents to be true and the only dispute was one memo which could not be verified though the media made it seem as if it was proven to be false.

the swift boat crap didn't matter nearly as much as the media hyped up crap about the terrorism threats and other fear mongering. the media quickly jumped on the values and morals thing as a reason for why Bush "won" when that turns out not to be that significant. to report the true story of the fear mongering would involve a lot of self examination and the media doesn't want to do that.

[not fooled]

62. Agree completely

sad but true. this country is screwed, big-time. no way out until the media changes (= never???)

[Rockerdem]

70. I concur - it was terror more than the Swift vets

After all the SBV malarkey had been aired, Kerry took it and survived. In fact, after the debates he was tied or ahead in the best polls. It was in the last 2 weeks that the "terror" issue was the thing that fretful voters turned to. And the anti-GLBT crowd some too.

[UL_Approved]

7. You all missed the point

Why did this ad campaign get so much success? THE MEDIA.

The ads were freely shown on every nightly news program for several days.

The SVAK would have been a minor regional slander ad if not for our WONDERFUL news media.

Again, the MSM made this whole issue a national debacle instead of a small-time slander ad. Kerry people could go on and on about how they missed this one, but it was an inside job.

[AllyCat]

29. Exactly!

I don't even watch TV, but those ads were all my friends and co-workers talked about, whether they supported one candidate or not.

The media played their role as instructed on this one as they have on so many other. Corporate media, which now includes npr IMHO, is one of the greatest threats to our democracy, outside the inability to get a fair freakin' election.

[necso]

9. Kerry was very badly advised --

which is not a knock on our candidate.

Time to clear out all the Gore-Kerry campaign "advisors", except, perhaps, for those who came in towards the end of the Kerry campaign. -- But there are many people who would have a better idea what difference these (latter) actually made. -- It seemed "positive" to me.

Of course, I can't say if better "help" would have made a difference -- But I don't see how it could have hurt.

[Khephra]

11. Exactly

I won't say a bad thing about Kerry, but his handlers? Yeah, I will. Cahill's track record was out there for anyone to see and it wasn't inspiring.

[necso]

17. My feeling is that all these "handlers"

are just "employees". And when the stakes are so high, it is not wise to judge these "employees" on anything but performance.

But I am a hard man to "work" for. -- If you don't do your "job", then you won't "work" for me very long.

This was not a contest of two men -- it was a contest of two teams -- and, unfortunately, our team had some serious flaws.

But it is too soon, I think, to go into these in detail.

[FDRrocks]

10. The organizer of this smear campaign is broke and begging for cash....

Such a fitting end. Hope he throws his welfare check in the trash. Frigging scum that denounces Kerry for his apprent lack of heroism while backing a draft dodger.

[Leilani]

16. Do you mean O'Neill is broke?

And I heard they had raised so much money?

[proudbluestater]

12. "Perhaps we could have cut it off earlier."

Yes, perhaps we could have. Should have. Meant to. Contemplated it. Had focus groups addressing it. Polled our other advisors.

In the end, we did squat.

[Khephra]

13. What I find telling about that statement is the "WE"

"In hindsight, maybe WE should have put Senator Kerry out earlier...."

I wonder what Kerry wanted to do. It sounds like the staff may have had a little bit too much control, imo.

[Leilani]

18. What I find telling, is that she should have read DU

we all knew they had to do something, & we don't get paid.

I don't understand these consultants, who get paid fantastic amounts of money for handing out bad advice, & losing election after election.

[saigon68]

19. I agree with you

They are paid thousands and millions to give advice that insults common sense.

I thought the public was smarter. I'll never make that mistake again.
The average Amerikan has the intelligence of a flying squirrel.

And on this trip the squirrels voted for the Draft-Dodging Cheney and the AWOL Chimpanzee.

[queenjane]

24. I have a theory

Democrats presume Americans are far more intelligent than they really are, that they'll see through the lies and propaganda.

Republicans make no such mistake. They know Americans are dumber than a box of rocks, have the attention spans of gnats, and will believe anything administered repeatedly in 30-second sound bites during "reality" shows.

[Norquist Nemesis]

42. Good take on it queenjane!

Welcome to DU, BTW! :hi:

Your theory is on the right track, IMO. It's not because Americans are dumb though...but because they've bought into a marketing campaign hook, line and sinker. The brand name is Republican and the newest product is George Bush. This product has served well as their cash cow for the last four years but has run its course and is in the downswing of its life-cycle...so now, we're beginning to see a test market of new products.

Right now, the Republicans (politicians and operatives) are desperately trying to retain their hold on the loyal customers while simultaneously looking to increase their market share. That can only come from the Independents.

It's going to be a rough ride for the Republicans. A very rough ride. Dissent is showing and Democrats recognize and opportunity...I hope, anyway. They MUST listen to the grassroots such as those of us here at DU if they are going to be effective. They also need to maximize this enormous opportunity being given them--even thought the coverage is all doom and gloom for the party, all eyes are on the Democrats. It's an enviable position to be in and I so very much hope and pray they ACT ON IT!

Let's get the message going...now rinse and repeat! :)

[saigon68]

49. Welcome to DU

I for one share your opinion of the "native" intelligence of the sheep.

You have a lot to add to our place. Jump right in.

:-) :-)

[fob]

53. That aligns well with popped into my head regarding elections in general

Democrats WANT their government INTELLIGENT, Government, or specfically republicks in government, NEED their constituents to be DUMB

[KoKo]

40. But , if you remember those of us who criticized his campaign were

regularly trashed here on DU and some of us were "stalked" with folks accusing us of being Kerry/Edwards bashers. We were told Kerry had a "plan" and that going on the "attack" would make us look like Repugs...that Bush would implode on his own.

When I critized some of Kerry's photo ops which looked "staged" I got folks saying that Kerry's "athleticism" would make Bush look weak and young voters were turned on to his biking, windsurfing and motorcycle.

Then when he appeared late in the campaign dragging the dead goose by the neck in his "too perfect" hunting gear...we were told this would appeal to the Gun Owners.

The Repugs used his wind surfing to make an ad which was aired all over the place making Kerry look ridiculous...and the gun voters could have cared less about the dead goose but to others of us it looked like a "stunt."

He was the best candidate with all the credentials we could put out there against Bush in the end...but the "stunts" made him look like he was trying to "top Bush or out do him" and his expensive motorcycle, and atheletic activities (featuring him in very expensive gear) made him look like an "elitist."

He won the Election, but it should have been overwhelming and the attacks should have been anticipated by both HIM and his campaign staff. If they had listened to us out here...they would have had some idea of what they were up against. But, I think they viewed the Dean/Kucinich activists as "Internet Riff Raff." Good to be used on the street but not politically savy enough to listen to. :shrug:

[Khephra]

46. Amen, Koko. Amen.

:toast:

[queenjane]

64. I winced all through the convention

I like John Kerry. I think he's a good man. But I kept waiting, and waiting, and waiting, for him to catch fire. To rail about environmental degradation, the threat to Social Security, the mounting death toll in Iraq, the threat to abortion rights, to talk about ANYTHING except Vietnam! It was clear early on that John Q. Idiot didn't care that Kerry served while Bush skedaddled. That was 30 years ago--did Kerry really believe the "Sheeple" even remembered that horrible time?

When I saw the news clip featuring the dead goose, I knew it was over. It was horribly fake and sad. What's even sadder is knowing I won't live long enough to see a presidential candidate win without killing some poor creature or blathering about his/her "relationship with god".

[Leilani]

75. Agreed on each & every point you've made.

And yes, people were bashed for trying to tell the truth.

[kodi]

79. but, but our dear friend dem strategist said political judo would work!

yeah, along with you, koko, i was probably the loudest yahoo in the gang who was screaming for the kerry campaign to do something in early august about the swift boat vermin. maybe its living in the rural south and seeing how bad it made kerry look to blue collar types that indicated that the problem would not simply go away.

the dems may have people who run campigns for a living, but the GOP has people who live for running campaigns. its akin to sending in our second team every 4 years to run an election. in the last 25 years, only clinton's campaign was run well, and they clobbered the GOP.

[UL_Approved]

93. We didn't have a grip on reality

You are right.

It is sad. There are many Dems who think that the GOP is going to get outed when people wake up. This won't happen unless we knock over the bed and throw out the covers.

Kerry needed to appeal to a demographic that is ignorant and jealous. Most people don't understand anything other than how to dress themselves, make a meal, and get to work. These same people, in their lack of education, have at the same time a sense of jealousy towards anybody that has more than they do.

The ads of character only work if they show somebody doing their job. You have to show somebody helping out the country by filing papers at a desk, going out to construction sites and asking questions, going to farms and ranches and talking to people, going to schools and visiting staff and students, visiting with military personnel, etc.

Kerry failed because he came off as less populist than Bush.

You people STILL don't have the answer. You look at Montana, Colorado, and other states that got Democrats in where GOP has been the norm. You look at how they did it. Then you will KNOW how to take this country back.

If you people here want this country so very badly, THEN FIGHT FOR IT. There is no high road. There is no reasonable viewpoint amongst the average people. They never see any improvement in their lives any more. And lately, they don't even see leaders that try to be associated with then, either in person or with people like then on television.

[okieinpain]

47. good point shrum has lost what, 8 in a row. damn how does he

get hired with a resume like that.

[SemperEadem]

67. ego.. plain and simple

it was all about ego, not ability. That's why they stuck with a 'hands tied behind our back' strategy---because someone's ego got in the way when it needed to be put aside and an alternative strategy adopted to quash the SBVT in its tracks. There is no way that they should have encouraged Kerry to ignore the damage--that's like ignoring that there is a hole in the boat while watching the water gushing in and no one's bailing out the boat.

If any one of them took the time to acquaint themselves with DU--and I"m sure they knew DU's here--many, many people here were dismayed at how the campaign was rolling over and not meeting the SBVT issue head on and killing it where it stood.

To me, the issue ended with someone (O'Neill) who couldn't seem to extracate himself from the wayback machine with regards to Kerry's service in VietNam--I would have hammered him on his inability to live in the present and look to the future. The fact still remains, even after this election, that * dodged his service obligation; therefore how can someone who wouldn't even do his duty feel he's fit to command the very military that he avoided?

[Lorien]

51. Yep. They thought that by constantly hammering the pro-military

war hero theme, Kerry would appear "tough", while they ignored the attacks against him, or reacted to late. It looked weak.

Just once, I'd love to see the Dems ACT tough! If they lie about us, we should scream our outrage in unison and attack in return. The repugs do this and have had terrific results from this strategy. And no, I don't want to hear "but we have to play nice, because otherwise the media won't be kind to us". The media will attack dems no matter what we do. Call them out as well! It's time to hit back and hit back HARD!

[not fooled]

66. yeah, but unfortunately...

...the media twist ANY dem response to turn it into a negative. e.g.:

strong and agressive response to kkk's attacks...gets turned into "* bashing"

Kerry proposes intelligent, well thought-out plans for healthcare...gets turned into "boring, too many details, etc... or gets no coverage (then we hear the bullshit line "well, Kerry has no plan")

Kerry recounts factual info about his Vietnam service...gets turned into "running on old record" or "stuck 30 yrs ago" while AWOL coward incompetent chimp gets a pass.

you get my drift...we can't win a war of words in the media. we are really, really screwed.

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Cahill needs to spend some time in Central Florida.

Her sleaze alarm will get sharper. Of course, she may also become as cynical as I am. But, that's not a bad thing to be if you're trying to get your man in the Oval office.

[AmerDem]

22. Cahill was in over her head and

just plain awful.

[flpoljunkie]

23. No way Swift Boat Liars would have gained traction w/o complicit media.

Even the print media, read New York Times, waited three whole weeks before denouncing these despicable lies. And all of them failed to give proper coverage to the Chicago newspaperman who served with Kerry and wrote an op-ed in the Chicago Tribune in support of John Kerry's Vietnam record--putting truth to the Swift Boat lies.

Of course, the cable news media pretty much ignored this testimonial and the Swift Boat ads continued to run on cable, as well as in crucial battleground states.

Our democracy cannot endure if our media does not do their job--which is to speak truth to power--particularly network and cable news, as this is sadly, where most Amerikuns get their "news."

It is an uphill fight, indeed, but a battle well worth fighting.

[cybildisobedience]

28. key point

And again, the Democrats refuse to address it.
They talk about "sending out better representatives," but not about forming their own media outlets.
The Repukes supposedly "won" with their Christian base, and yesterday, Falwell announces an ever greater grassroots effort for next time around.
For them, it's never enough.
For us, it's "we'll do better next time around."

Dean, at least, gets it, and calls the media whores on their crap.

[Lerkfish]

38. a complicit media is ALL THE MORE REASON it should have been addressed

early, repeatedly, and effectively.
I think the mistake was in assuming that inaction would speak volumes, but it didn't take into account that the media must talk about SOMETHING, so they will fill any vacuum you give them. If you don't respond, they'll keep going back to the swift boat people AGAIN to hear them REPEAT the charges.

The time has come to hire or utilize smarter people than this.

[AngryOldDem]

25. Gee, Mary Beth

"In hindsight, maybe we should have put Senator Kerry out earlier, perhaps we could have cut it off earlier."

YA THINK?

I thought she needed to be canned right after this broke and it immediately got away from the campaign. You can't tell me that there was no way that the Kerry people could have jumped right on this and contained it.

[Bush was AWOL]

26. How could she underestimate?

I was worried they'd be fatal from the very beginning myself. I remember watching several talk shows with my father (life long democrat) right after unfit for command hit shelves, and the two of us were very worried. We didn't like what the Swift Boat Liars were saying, and we didn't like how Kerry's campaign was dealing with the liars.

I spent so much time trying to debunk those assholes on internet forums and out in public. So, if I knew they'd possibly be fatal, why didn't Cahill and Shrum.

[Khephra]

27. Because people like Cahill and Shrum live in a land called

Beltway, USA. It's a strange and magical land and everything is peaches and cream there. Everyone plays fair even when they're not and there's always enough smiles to go around!

:crazy:

Forget term limits for offices. Can we get term limits on how long people can stay in DC? I'm really starting to think it's a different world.

[JHB]

31. Now that's a term limit proposal I can support:

Limits on the time someone can serve as a federal employee, congressional staffer, and registered lobbyist. The elected officials already have a mechanism for booting them out, it's the "permanent Washington" that needs to be broken up!

[tsuki]

30. Underestimated what? That it would kill his national career in politics?

Sheesh...hand immediately shot up frantically waving.

[rodeodance]

32. paybacks are sweet (lott to bush)

[gulfcoastliberal]

33. Cahill was completely and utterly outclassed by Rove

I remember I saw her during the later days of the campaign on Inside Politics one day with Judy Woofwoof and although Judy lobbed several softballs that could be easily hit out of the park, Cahill just couldn't do it. She looked nervous and sounded incoherent. I knew then that we were doomed.

[itzamirakul]

34. I wrote to the dumb b**ch...

when this Swift Boat Lie began to snowball. She had sent out letters announcing a "meet-up party" instead of atending to serious matters. I asked her why she was stealing aleaf fromMoveOn's notebook instead of coming up with some defense for the attack. The only answer was a form letter asking for more money. I know sixth-graders who could do a better job than she did.

[DinahMoeHum]

73. You and me, both.

At one point, I SCREAMED in an e-mail: "Fight back, you dumb f**k bitch. Goddamm you, fight back"

This, after asking them several times, and getting nothing but another request for contributions.

Gawd, I just hope we can get an ass-kicker like Howard Dean in a Dem leadership position.


:kick:

[itzamirakul]

88. Yeah...and now

te losing b*tch is out on the lecture circuit making money talking about her losing strategy. Just like Bush giving medals of Freedom to three men who truly fcuked up...this is becoming a "reward the FCUK-UP SOCIETY." Go figure.

[DS1]

35. Raises hand

:hi:

She's too nice, therefore useless in today's politics.

[htuttle]

36. We aren't going to win again until we dump these consultants/strategists

The whole lot of them, Cahill, Carville, Begala, Shrum -- DUMP THEM ALL! They've been losing for nearly a decade, and are utterly incompetent and out of touch.

Fire anyone at the DNC who speaks the words, 'Common Wisdom'.

Or, the alternative is that we keep losing over, and over, and over again.

[Stinky The Clown]

37. I wonder if (gay) Kenny Mehlman was there as an official spokesman

for the Swift Shit Liars. Since everyone seems to be owning up these days, maybe he'll own up to the very real coordination with the Bush campaign.

Oh yeah .... and Kenny? ....... you're gay. You know it. We know it. Come out, come out wherever you are!

Fucking hypocrite.

(edited for fatfinger typos)

[mcgovern]

39. We'll never get a flag-burner type elected president.

[maddezmom]

41. welcome to DU, mcgovern

I don't know we sure have a lot of chickenhawks in the current administration. :shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

59. No, the people in this country are way to fond

of out and out deserters.

[tabasco]

43. I overestimated ...

the decency of the American People. I thought the scurrilous attacks would totally backfire on the repugnant republicans. Apparently many Americans lack the virtue to reject disgusting lies against an honorable man.

[JNelson6563]

44. Now maybe the Bots

will back off when someone here says the same.

Oh and I am raising both hands on the dismay over milque-toast MaryBeth involvement thing!

Julie

[w4rma]

48. She was a wimp then, and even now her response is wimpy. (nt)

[Snivi Yllom]

50. what does it tell you about the candidate who hired dunces like Cahill

I don't know if its more pathetic that Kerry hired these idiots or that he let himself be talked out of squashing the Swift boat assholes hard when they first aired their garbage ads.

Both were very bad leadership decisions.

[nolabels]

52. Yea, she would like to think herself as that important

None of us are singularly, we all need to figure that out and get away from the top-down iconography. If and when we do that then we all can realize we are part of a larger whole and be able to grow out of this narrow vision that we seem to want to trap ourself in for what ever reason.

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition:

\I`co*nog"ra*phy\, n. description; e'ikw`n an image + ? to describe: cf. F.
iconographie.]
1. The art or representation by pictures or images; the
description or study of portraiture or representation, as
of persons; as, the iconography of the ancients.

2. The study of representative art in general.

{Christian iconography}, the study of the representations in
art of the Deity, the persons of the Trinity, angels,
saints, virtues, vices, etc.
(snip)
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/iconography

[depakid]

54. Gee, why didn't you just phone Susan Estrich?

She would have told you EXACTLY what they would do to your Dukakis style campaign.

[NVMojo]

55. yeah, I still get this Swiftboat shit thrown in my face ....TODAY!

that's how far reaching it was ....

[sampsonblk]

56. Enough of this media stuff

Since at least 1989 they have been using talk radio and talk shows to smear our party and our beliefs. What we should have seen was an organized campaign taking on Fox News, this bullshit talk radio and their other crooked "news" outlets.

Its not enough to say the media is crooked. The Kerry campaign should have had a media strategy that took this stuff into account, and they didn't. I ran through plenty of Tums watching them kick themselves in the ass trying to get fair coverage out of Fox. Ain't gonna happen.

My question is why the hell didn't they know that? They al did the same thing to Gore four years ago, and the same to Clinton for the preceding 8 years. Why was this news to the Kerry people? And why did they fall right into it?

[Crunchy Frog]

60. I totally agree with what you're saying.

The media is what it is right now, that's just the reality we have to deal with. Any Democrat running for office needs to take that into consideration and build their campaign strategy around that reality. Just playing by the old rules and then crying that the media doesn't play fair isn't going to cut it anymore.

I remember how teed off I was at Gore in 2000 that he seemed utterly taken by surprise by the behavior of the media. Hadn't he been paying attention to what had been happening to Clinton for the previous 8 years? Maybe he thought that the media simply had an inexplicable hatred for Clinton and that it was an isolated phenomenon.

There was absolutely no excuse for Kerry's not anticipating it this time, and having some sort of strategy in place to deal with it.

[nolabels]

65. How can you dance in a world you were not born into?

Grass roots never grow in treetops.

Anticipate your position outside the box and then peer through it to see how others might look at it being in their position.

on edit, syntax

[sampsonblk]

77. That's the quote of the day, and deserves its own thread

"Just playing by the old rules and then crying that the media doesn't play fair isn't going to cut it anymore."

Zactly. These are the same people who had Juanita Broderick on (O'Reilly) the night that Hillary Clinton's book came out. Hannity refers to Bill Clinton as a "rapist" right on his radio show. Maybe some of our party elite aren't spending enough time checking out what's going in the right wing media.

If that's the case, then I guess they will have to be surprised a few more times before they get it. I sure hope not.

[KingChicken]

57. I underestimated the stupidity of America....

[SKKY]

58. If Carville had been on board from the beginning...

...this would have been a Clintonian White-wash. This campaign was a stare-down between Rove and Cahill, and Cahill blinked first. I hope her career as a political campaign adviser is over.

[Nameless]

68. Some serious analysis of the "Shit Mouth Liars For Bush" 's impact

The SMLB did not convert many people. A large majority of Americans believed Kerry over these people and one poll I read showed that not even a majority of Republicans believed that Kerry did not deserve his medals.

The Swift Boater's impact was that they distracted from the issues and a whole month of the campaign was spent talking about Vietnam. Thus, as Kerry was fighting the political war on another front, the Bush campaign just went and nuked the Hell out of Kerry at their convention, by which time the SMLB had given them the momentum. That's my take.

BTW, if you ever get into an argument with your friends, neighbor's, or family about Kerry's service, refer them to Eric Rasmussen's review, "Truth and Unfit for Command", found here:

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/kerry_medals/truth.html

[Crunchy Frog]

76. I think maybe their biggest area of impact

was not in people actually believing the lies, but in the perception that Kerry would not fight back when attacked. That in itself creates a perception of weakness in people's minds. They may be inclined to think that, if he won't fight back to defend himself, how can he be expected to fight back to defend the country.

I think they succeeded in persuading some people as to his weakness, without actually persuading them as to the accuracy of the charges themselves.

I also think that Kerry bought in to what the Republican propaganda machine was saying, that if he fought back, it just meant that he was being an "angry Democrat" and was evidence of his "pessimism". Those were the big buzzwords that the Rethugs were using and I think Kerry fell right into the trap that they set with them.

[not fooled]

69. we need a teevee channel...

...dumbass 'murkans need to start seeing liberal cable TV, which would provide at least a start at a platform to effectively counter all of the 'puke whore toadies "hosting" shows on the alphabet soup of 'puke TV (various 'puke-bots on faux, most of mess-snbc, whiffleball, russert the brainless, etc.).

Get effective hosts like BERNIE WARD that can effectively counter the 'puke liars, add good guests to provide FACTS to counter 'puke spin and lies, and we might get somewhere.

[sidpleasant]

72. We might get one

Al Franken was hinting about an Air America channel today. Katherine Lanpher reminded him that he wasn't supposed to be talking about it.

Wasn't Al Gore supposed to be setting up a liberal alternative to Fox News? Anyone know what happened to that?

[SKKY]

85. Oh God, that would be freakin' huge!

And I apologize to all of you who are way too sensitive for the God reference in my subject line.

[SemperEadem]

71. the media needs to be regulated again

deregulation is what has allowed the media to behave in the way it has for the past 8 1/2 years---where it doesn't have to offer equal time for opposing viewpoints--that the airwaves/cable signals can be used as a propaganda arm for one political party heading for a dictatorship in this country.

Right now, if one were to launch a campaign to re-regulate media, there would be such howling from the right wingers about government being too involved in areas where it doesn't belong--but they are all for the government being too involved in the personal lives of the citizenry to the point of individual personal rights being threatened by all 3 branches of the government.

[Democat]

74. Everyone in the United States except her knew they needed to respond

The Kerry campaign was a fucking failure and we are all going to pay for their wimpiness.

[kodi]

78. way to go mary beth, you're blind in one eye and deaf in the other

only a clueless, elitist politician could have been blind to the damage the swift boat vets could cause from the very first day they hit the news.

many of us in rural america were damned mad as hell for the lacksidasical attitude held by the kerry campaign as this matter engulfed the news in august and september.

even staunch democrats begain to worry that if kerry would not even protect his reputation against such smears, what the hell kind of backbone he had.

this was not a matter of "politics." it went right to the heart of who john kerry was as a man, and to have him vacilate like the prince of denmark even made me question kerry's strength and commitment.

kerry should have come out swinging and put an end to the swift boatie nonsense within a single news cycle.

cahill was not tough minded enough to see reality. she and her campaign staff were so cultural isolated from those voters for whom the swift boat accusations were important, that they dismissed the attacks as so weak as only to sway dumb people.

and pretty much it is this sort of elitism in party leadership howard dean said was killing the party

[WorseBeforeBetter]

80. Banana Republicans: How the Right Wing Is Turning America...

into a One Party State:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1585423424/qid=1103238372/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/002-2144738-4009664

These guys get it. Dean gets it. I've always thought highly of Kerry, but was infuriated at the lousy campaign he, Cahill, Shrum, Devine, et al. ran. He should have had the common sense not to windsurf, not to don the spacesuit, not to participate in that staged hunting outing - it only gave the Rs ammo to mock him. And so many missed opportunities as well (Kerry not firing back during debates #2 and #3 when derisively called a "liberal" by Dumbya is one of many examples...). The Rs view this as WAR and the Dems as political debate, and "Team Kerry" was no match for Rove and Norquist. And Donna Brazile is useless; Matalin eats her alive during interviews, all the while referring to her as "my good friend" - it's painful to watch.

[CityDem]

81. Good to hear that Mary Beth has pulled her head out

August was a slow month for news and the SBV's filled the airwaves with their charges. It took the air right out of the positive dem convention. After the pub convention in sept, awol was up by 8-10 points. After kerry won the first debate the polls were even until the last couple weeks. Imagine how the race would have looked if the race was even going into the first debate -- kerry would have held a 5-10 point lead after that debate. The SBV's hit kerry hard and Mary Beth just sat around screwing the pooch. She was a miserable failure.

[Leilani]

82. While we're discussing Cahill screwups,

I read somewhere that it was her idea to go after Dick Cheney's daughter during the debates.

And that when she was questioned about it, she said Cheney's daughter had made herself a target.

I was not at all comfortable with that debate moment...it bothered me.

And I also question why Kerry allowed himself to be controlled by these consultants. Is he that unsure of himself?

[CBHagman]

83. But how do we get rid of the SBVFT and the others?

Look, folks, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have announced plans to hound Kerry THROUGHOUT THE YEARS and to remain active as a consulting group (or the like).

Barbara Walters has Karl Rove among her "Most Fascinating People of 2004" and everyone's gushing about Rove's success.

The Washington Post is so morally brain-dead that David Broder is gushing about Arnold Schwarzenegger (as Mary McGrory rolls over in her grave and Herblock rolls over in his urn).

McCarthyism is being defended, and Reagan is being lauded as "the most popular president" of modern times.

I'll bet if Nixon or Lee Atwater were alive today, they'd be lionized, not reviled.

Guys, when did the U.S. become such a moral cesspool? People are worried about Janet Jackson's nipples, but they're fine with human filth running our government and the media. What do we do to reverse it?

[pinniped]

84. What she did was underestimate the stupidity of Merikans.

.

[umtalal]

86. HAND RAISED. n/t

[sampsonblk]

87. Raise your hand if you think this was typical of the Kerry campaign

This one huge mistakes, in my opinion, just underscores the gaping holes in the Kerry campaign. They were not very aggressive towards Bush and his crooked machine at all.

Weak against their policies, weak aginst their people.

Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, FoxNews, their radio machine, Cheney, etc should have been used against Bush from the start. Wouldn't have been too hard, but would have required some courage. The Dem turnout would have probably been higher, and less Gore/Clinton Dems would have voted for Bush. Just my opinion, of course.

[Merlin]

89. She was a weak choice. But we should blame Kerry, not her.

Kerry is responsible for these mistakes. He should have known better but didn't.

Most collossally, he didn't even grasp the intensity out here in average Dem land. So when they hit him in April/May with $50 million in unanswered ads defining him as a flip-flopper and ultra-elitist liberal, he rolled over. Why? I remember screaming and hollering about that here on DU and being told to shut up because JK knew better. Right!

We now learn the reason was--get this--they "didn't think we could raise the money." Can you believe it? In other words, the didn't learn a thing from Uncle Howards phenomenal success. Kerry could have raised all the money he needed as long as he used it to blast gwb and win the election. But he did not even grasp this simple, obvious fact. It's really sad.

[politicasista]

92. Sorry, but I don't blame Kerry

Let the Kerry bashing continue.:cry:

[cap]

90. sorry but she should have known better

there was the Dean scream.... something even more inocuous that got played over and over and over and over until it destroyed the candidate.

As soon as the momentum was building for the Swift Liars, her rapid response team should have been on the stick, countering the lies and drumming up a new story to shift the media focus.

All this was done right before and during the convention, when the old rules have dictated that the rival candidate go mum. Sorry should have seen it coming. Should have known that old rules are not applying.

[EFerrari]

91. This public regretting is exactly what Moore talks about

in the letter posted at truthout. How is public handwringing useful? I don't remember seeing Rove doing this. Putting the election theft aside for a moment, why expose your underbelly at every opportunity?