Australian ministry vilified Muslims, court rules

[emad]

Guardian

Sarah Left
Friday December 17, 2004

An Australian court ruled today that a fundamentalist Christian ministry had vilified Muslims in a test case that could have repercussions for a proposed British law on incitement to religious hatred.

A court in the southern state of Victoria found that Catch the Fire Ministries and its pastors, Danny Nalliah and Daniel Scot, had fallen foul of Victoria's 2001 Religious and Racial Tolerance Act. The Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV) brought the case following a March 2002 church seminar in Melbourne, during which Mr Scot characterised Muslims as liars and demons and claimed that the Qu'ran promoted violence, killing and looting.

The ICV also cited and article written for the ministry's newsletter by Mr Nalliah, which the judge ruled had incited fear and hatred of Muslims.

Justice Michael Higgins, ruling for the Victoria civil and administrative tribunal, said of the seminar: "It was presented in a way which is essentially hostile, demeaning and derogatory of all Muslim people, their God, Allah, and the prophet Mohammed and in general Muslim religious beliefs and practices."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/australia/story/0,12070,1376191,00.html

[emad]

1. "Christianophobia" argument still relevant????

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1076778

[ck4829]

2. A Muslim's take on this

I don't like bigotry, and so I hope if Muslim leaders in Mosques are caught doing the same thing they will be punished for it too, just the same as the Christian leaders

[itaintoveryet]

3. why do christians

constantly say vicious things about muslims and islam yet i rarely hear a muslim say offensive things about christians or jesus ?

[ck4829]

4. Muslims don't say bad things about Jesus

The more extreme ones usually go after Jews, something else I do not approve of

[Igel]

6. Which?

The one that Xtians say was crucified and resurrected, or the one that Allah rescued and who never died? The two also have a different set of grandparents, I think.

This is a big, silent point of disagreement between Islam and Christianity, because most Muslim commentators say that Xtians routinely lie and distort the truth by claiming Christ died.

[TO Kid]

10. True, they love Jesus and hate Christians

The only thing they hate more than Christians are Jews and Muslims who refuse to fight.

[neweurope]

15. There's no "they". We are all individuals :)

Let's not put up a division between "us" and "them". That's what our respective governments want to easier rule. We should never fall for this.

[Igel]

5. You're not looking in the right places. n/t

[TO Kid]

9. Doesn't happen

Many imams have made sermons calling for death to Americans and Jews and continue to get away with it. The most recent example I know of that got a lot of publicity was at a Vancouver mosque last month. My Muslim friends tell me that it's pretty common- they condemn terrorism in English then take to the pulpit and call for holy war in Arabic.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

14. Clearly it's morally wrong

But it should be legally OK to say you hate all Muslims, Jews or Christians or, hey, all three.

[eallen]

7. A civil libertarian's take: the 1st amendment is a wonderful thing....

Hate and hate speech should be legal, up to the point that it incites illegal action. The Canadian, European, and Australian laws banning hate speech are illiberal and offensive to those of us who value liberty. The 1st amendment of the US Constitution, as buttressed by the 14th, has proved remarkably robust in keeping these kinds of laws at bay. Long may it stand.

[TO Kid]

8. Did the adjudicatiors bother reading the Koran?

If they did, they would be aware that to Koran and the other holy books of Islam do indeed promote violence, looting and killing.

Qur’an 8:1- “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”

Tabari VII:65- “Allah’s Messenger came back to Medina, bringing with him the booty which had been taken from the polytheists.... There were forty-four captives in the Messenger of Allah’s possession. There was a similar number of dead.”

Qur’an 8:1- “They question you about spoils of war. Say: ‘Booty is at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger; they belong to Us and are for Our benefit. So fear Allah, and adjust your way of thinking in this matter. Obey Allah and His Messenger.’”

Qur’an 8:57- “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Qur’an 8:67- “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”

Ishaq:326- “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Qur’an 33:26- “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”

Qur’an 33:22- “Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for Jihad. Some have completed their vow to extreme and have been martyred fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.”

Qur’an 47:4- “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”

[itaintoveryet]

11. ah

so how about posting the context of these verses. taking a couple of verses from here and there without the full context can also be applied to any religious text. the same can also be done with the bible and then would you say that the bible also promotes violence, looting and killing.

[TO Kid]

12. Context?

The context is from the Hadiths, the Koran itself has absolutely no context, location or chronology. The Surahs are a collection of rants, the Hadiths chronicle the prophet's actions. Most of the Surahs were "revealed" to Muhammed whenever he needed to justify his actions.

The context is pretty straightforward. Muhammed claimed that a piece of rock in a Meccan shrine was the only god, proclaimed himself to be the final messenger of that god, then began a career as a pirate. He started by robbing merchant caravans travelling from Mecca, then when the Meccans fought back he fled to Medina where he killed the Jews and collected tribute from everyone else. Since you no doubt assume that the accounts of the 75 robberies he committed in a decade were propaganda written by his adversaries, you should be aware that the only accounts of his life were written by Islamic scholars.

[Ms. Clio]

13. Please provide the context for these Old Testament verses

Number, Chapter 31

31: 7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

31: 9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
Moses was angry with the officers saying:
"Have ye saved all the women alive?"
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.