27 Million in US to See Tax Bill Rise (w/disgusting Norquist quote)

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http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/12/18/27_million_in_us_to_see_tax_bill_rise/

WASHINGTON Ñ Nearly 27 million more Americans are slated to pay higher federal income taxes over the next six years as they become subject to a tax provision usually aimed only at the wealthiest Americans, with Massachusetts residents paying at a greater rate than all but four other states, Treasury officials and economists said yesterday.

<snip>
Some Republicans have suggested leaving the minimum tax in place because those hardest hit tend to be in states that did not support Bush, including Massachusetts, California, and New York. ÔÔIt is a tax of people living in ÔblueÕ states,ÕÕ said Grover Norquist, the conservative activist who heads Americans for Tax Reform.

He said the tax was originally conceived by liberal Democrats as a way of imposing higher taxes mostly on wealthier Republicans, and he suggested that it be used as a bargaining chip by the White House when Bush tries to enact his tax agenda. The minimum tax should be repealed only when Democrats ÔÔsay they are sorry and offer to give us something in return,ÕÕ Norquist said.

[BadGimp]

1. That guy has some stones on him!

Gotta admire that kind of arrogance.

What kind of Moral Values are they practicing tthere I wonder.

[Anakin Skywalker]

44. Vindictiveness = Republican Moral Value.

What a bunch of @$$holes! How very christian of them.

[berni_mccoy]

2. Them SOBs!!!!

[cornermouse]

3. Sort of makes you want to slap Norquist silly, doesn't it.

I think when the democrats finally get back in, they should pass a special provision of some sort just for Norquist.

[DBoon]

17. They need to build a bathtub big enough to drown Grover Norquist

eom

[jmowreader]

20. Your wish is my command!

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_plywood_aquarium.php

[WhiteTara]

42. do they make tubs that big? eom

[Deja Q]

62. Don't offer the secret service any hors devours when they show up.

That comment of yours will do no good, even if the guy is a real piece.

[Massachusetts]

4. TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION

History ALWAYS repeats itself, we are NO exception.

[lakelly]

7. Ain't it the truth.

We are going back in time my friends. Before there was a middle class, before there was a societal safety net. Almost everything I hear or read right now seems to confirm my opinion. I am angered, then frightened or angered and frightened. I'm not going to step down from the "challenge", as *likes to say. These are tough times but I am in it for the long haul.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[zann725]

25. That should be our new motto..."NO taxation WITHOUT Representation!"

They're spending it without our approval...and we're the ones giving it to them carte blanche. When are we going to wake up?

[Julius Civitatus]

32. Norquist is a hypocrite

We knew that. We knew this evil overlord of the Republican party was also a scumbag, but every other week we are witness to a new level of scumbaggery coming from this character. This is the same guy who compared bipartisanship to "date rape," and Congressional Democrats to "neutered farm animals."

This relentless crusader of the anti-tax movement and the cult of Reagan just delighted us with his latest approach to government: tax the blue states to "punish them" (taxes that will finance the welfare of the Red States), and don't stop until they say "sorry."

What kind of a Democracy is this? What Grover Norquist is doing is to advocate for blackmail from the government to its subjects (this, from the same guy who has been advocating for smaller government for decades). Norquist wants a feudal state. This libertarian hypocrite, who has given lip service to the fight for "smaller government" and to "get government out of the lives of citizens" is calling for government to throw its weight against those who do not share Grover's "values."

Look out for new ideas from Grover:

- Elimination of all taxes in red states

- Special tax for registered Democrats

- Special taxes for non-Christians

- Tax credits for registered Republicans after signing a pledge of allegiance to Junior...

etc, etc...

You know they thinking about these measures.

[tavalon]

54. I really dislike Norquist

However, he has a point about Congressional Democrats being "neutered farm animals". I'd add that they also seem to know how to roll over on command, but hey, I may be bitter. And then again, there's Rep Conyers, who is wild, so I guess that just goes to show that generalizations rarely work.

Bleah, I'm having one of those days where nuclear obliteration seems a fair and reasonable thing for the human race.

[kclown]

5. Calm down, folks. The people who pay are Repubs. n/t

[cornermouse]

6. On what do you base that notion?

[Bono71]

29. Agree, I paid that tax last year and I am not a repub.

[mopinko]

31. wrong

one of the groups caught up in this net is people with large families. there's your family values party again. they are the ones, especially, being caught up because of the lack of indexing.
it is based on how much of your tax liability is reduced by deductions. all they have to do is remove the per person child deduction from the calculation, or raise the floor. but no. they like it that way.
that grover is one seriously disturbed puppy. i swear the rethuglican party is the main conduit for untreated mental illness to harm our country.

[zann725]

36. No, the rich Repugs own off-shore co's., and write-off most taxes.

With a good accountant, and a 'front company,' they evade most taxes...and even feel it's their right. Like NOT sending their sons to War.

The poor have historically paid most of the taxes per capita.

[genieroze]

8. ARGH!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[stevedeshazer]

9. Make no mistake

my blue state is also seeing big cuts in federal funds. It's no accident.

[genieroze]

10. Meanwhile we have to subsidize the red states. Secede NOW!

[kineneb]

48. sounds good to me

as a native "left coaster"

After we strangle Norquist and then bury him with a stake through his (non-existant) heart.

[Redleg]

11. Time for somebody to kneecap Norquist.

Fucking slob.

[Onlooker]

12. This is further proof we have to be tough

The right-wing is not trying to compromise, they are trying to win, and the more we give in on issue like voting fraud, racism, gay rights, the more we will have to give in. The right-wing will not stop at repeal of gay marriage. Who knows what will come next. Like it or not, progressives and Democrats of all stripes have to stand together and be very tough.

[Vickiela]

63. Defend our core but promote something bold

I agree we have to be tough on our core beliefs and defend them but if that is all we do without showing viable alternatives to the Bush agenda we will continue to lose.

I am for Co-opting ( spelling?) issues from Republicans like they tried to do with Medicare and they are trying to do with Social Security. If they pass their version of Social Security Reform than they will carry the banner OF saving it and take it away as a traditionally Democratic issue.

Social Security starts drawing out more than it takes in in 2018 that number is not in dispute. What do we propose to do - Keep the status quo. The numbers don't work for that either.

The Grover Norquists of the world will continue to chip away at us if we don't come up with some viable(Bipartisan passable) alternatives.

Younger and Middle aged Democrats are not so sure that the system will be there for them or that the beneftis will have to be reduced by the time I retire or raise payroll tax to 25% or more.

What would you promote as a bold solution that Democrats can get behind with a positive vision to carry us into 2006 election and on to winning in 2008. We need a success in positive legislation that show we have done something over the 4 years. What would you suggest that could actually get passed in a republican controlled Congress?????

[Solon]

13. This will start the breakup of the United States...

of that, I have no doubt, I live in a bloody red state, and even I am disgusted by this. To use taxes for purely political purposes and to penalize people for they way they vote will lead, if the Republicans countinue down this path, to civil war. I would recommend to all Blue Staters to write your representatives and to contact all state governments to protest this action, and if the repukes in the Federal Government do not rescind this action, to urge your own state governments to find an alternative solution, most succinctly to leave, just make sure I get to cross the river here so I can join. :)

[TexasBushwhacker]

14. Norquist is SO full of shit!

"He said the tax was originally conceived by liberal Democrats as a way of imposing higher taxes mostly on wealthier Republicans, and he suggested that it be used as a bargaining chip by the White House when Bush tries to enact his tax agenda. The minimum tax should be repealed only when Democrats ‘‘say they are sorry and offer to give us something in return,’’ Norquist said.

HELLO GROVER!!! It's called the Alternative Minimum Tax. It was conceived as a way to make sure that the AMERICANS (not just Republicans) who had the HIGHEST INCOMES, should still pay a minimum amount of income tax, despite having deductions out the wazoo. One of the trade offs was that captial gains tax, which the wealthy are the most likely to benefit from because they have the money to invest, was drastically lowered.

[mistertrickster]

26. "Give us something in return . . . " I'll give you something, Grover.

I'll give you the finger.

[earthside]

15. My Tax Plan

I think Democrats in Congress should propose that the income tax on all Amerians making less than $60,000 per year be no more than five percent.

This would put Democrats on the side of a REAL tax cut for REAL working Americans. If the Bushites say this will bust the budget ... Well, who are they kidding, right? Besides, they're in charge, let them propose which programs to cut.

[snippy]

16. Norquist was a victim of child abuse, however he is still one of the

most odious and loathsome little fucks in the history of the world. This would be true even if he was not the alpha Tax Cut Monkey and one of the biggest republican welfare queens.

[Skittles]

18. he's a Bush whore

sick f***

[Name removed]

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[RandomKoolzip]

39. Dude! NEVER LET GROVER'S DICK OUT OF YOUR MOUTH AGAIN!

You know he hates it when you stop sucking long enough to talk!

[Guaranteed]

65. LOL!! nt

[yorkiemommie1]

19. wants us to pay penance n/t

[ckramer]

21. This is - Taxes on the Blue States

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Spacemom]

27. Norquist is a moron

The minimum tax should be repealed only when Democrats say they are sorry and offer to give us something in return, Norquist said.


Say they're sorry for what?!? Being Democrats?! :eyes:

[leesa]

28. Of course. Someone needs to support the lazy right wingers.

Once again, the blue states pay their tab.

[queeg]

33. Time to secede

I firmly believe that we are at the cusp of what will become a second civil war. I see no choice but to urge our democratic representatives in state and national government to explore secession from the United States of America. We have reached a point from which there is no crossover. I will not somehow "find Jesus" and become a republican and they are unable to think clearly enough to understand that freedom "for" includes freedom "from". I for one, refuse to drink the Kool-Aid, and if that causes them to want to kill me in the end, I can only say that the feeling is disturbingly mutual.

[wankawanka]

41. be carful just saying that is technicaly treason

[queeg]

51. and if it succeeds, None Dare Call it Treason

I've already been called Un-American for not being Christian by the Commander In Chief. Therefore if the leader of the country has declared me to not be a part of the nation, who am I to disagree?

[GOPBasher]

34. How many of those people voted for Bush?

The ones who voted for him deserve this. There are a lot of stupid people voting against their own economic self-interests.

[DemoVet]

35. How we can turn this on them, though...

One way Democrats can make this work in their favor is to hold the feet of any republican representatives in their blue state to this particular fire. Per usual, proving that "republicans will cut their own throats just to see someone bleed", not to mention their pathological need to punish, it hasn't occured to them that there are republican taxpayers in these states too, as well as independents who may be influenced by this. If a republican congressman supports this or doesn't fight hard enough to oppose it this could be a strong campaign wedge issue, imagine a republican supporting higher taxes? It gives the incumbent the choice between toeing the party line in Washington or possibly losing votes in their home district, not an easy choice for a republican in a blue state.
By punishing blue-state republicans for asking for more money for Amtrak, thereby making them even more vulnerable than they are, the house leadership has already shown their boneheadedness and short-sightedness. As the republicans continue to abuse their man-date by punishing their "enemies"(and friends as well in the process) there are opportunities for Democrats to exploit, if they have the wit.

[Strawman]

37. "A cop and a nurse"

That's who's going to be hit by the AMT if they don't fix it soon according to David Cay Johnston's book Perfectly Legal . And when they do fix it, the deficit will grow even larger because they're cutting taxes for the wealthy everywhere else.

I wouldn't cut any deal on this. Let them tax the struggling middle class with the AMT (that was designed to stop the rich from avoiding taxes) while the rich avoid paying taxes on inheritances and investment income. That might be enough to get people to wake up and put them Democrats back in charge of Congress. You'd see alot more blue suburban districts, that's for sure.

[StephanieMarie]

38. Republicans are such assholes. n/t

[GOPFighter]

40. Someday I want to be...

...the Democrat's answer to Grover Norquist. I want to do everything in my entire being to demonize the Republicans so bad that even the most loathsome criminal refuses to share a cell with one. Grover, you're f*ckin' playing with fire when you piss of the Dems! We're comin' to get you and we're playing for keeps.

[El Biggo Doggo]

52. Damn straight

we need to remember this shiat when the tables turn. Tax Revolt!

[biglake]

43. Amen. Boston Tea Party would be appropriate!

No fair representation without a democracy.

[greyXstar]

45. Isn't that called extortion??

They're not even TRYING to hide their law-breaking anymore!!

When's it time to bring the torches and pitchforks??
:mad:

[lonestarnot]

46. Taxation without representation, can we object? Oh no avenue for that

either?

[Flammable Materials]

47. While I don't wish harm upon anyone ...

... if I heard that Grover Norquist died an excruciatingly horrible death, I might start believing in God again.

[BrklynLiberal]

64. I agree. Hope his death makes Lee Atwater's death look like fun.

[mitchum]

68. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, since he does have to move...

around DC WITHOUT TAXPAYER-FUNDED BODYGUARDS.
I'm really surprised.

[ashmanonar]

49. Welcome to the United States of Authoritarianism...

mmk, idk if this is a rhetorical question or not...O.o...but isn't it illegal to only tax specific areas with a federal tax?...:freak:

[Sugarbleus]

50. I was just talking to a visitor about taxation... then I see this

Our argument was centered only on why some states pay federal payroll tax and others don't. This person was for no taxation at all. Well, that won't fly, obviously but in his remarks were the hidden angst; we pay taxes out the wazoo but what do we get in return?

Where does all the tax money go? Why are we sending Multi millions of dollars to Colombia (& other countries) each year for? "War on Drugs"? Bullshit.

China and Japan own 50% of our debt; we've NEVER been this far in debt--"a debtor nation"--EVER

Now, the rethug bobble heads want to play THIS game with the blue state/red state two step?! Eff their mothers up the ***!!

I'm so enraged with these bung holes!! I stayed up all night watching news conferences and C-span where these FASCIST pukes spewed their drivel over these types of issues.

I'm writing letters..............what are the rest of you doing?!
Revolution? Yeah, the revolution WAS televised...it was the fascist revolution that unfolded right before our eyes on national TV.
Where's the indignation? Where's the protesting? Where's the organization? Why are too many people NOT lobbying their representatives?

To change this trend, we HAVE TO BECOME PROACTIVE. It will take relentless determination, organization, maybe money, certainly IT WILL TAKE SOME OF OUR TIME. We can't just talk about this shit, we have to DO SOMETHING. Start somewhere, just do it!

We either DO SOMETHING or we get the hell out and let the whole damn country implode on itself.

End of rant: :)

[Sleepless In NY]

56. Sugarbleus... Some are starting Blue State Alliances

Different groups from different states, trying to get it together. You're right, alot must be done, but I do think people are trying to organize. Just how much crap do we have to put up with, thats what I keep asking myself. And I'm not talking about secession, but economic parity. Why are we paying more? Why should we be paying more? It's time for every state to start pulling it's own weight. We are not just being taxed, but over taxed.

Alot of people feel like you do..frustrated. I have written my congress critters with not much success. Think this is going to have to be a total grass roots effort. And thats ok, its going to take some time, but it's worth the effort. I'm trying to learn everything I can about it. I'm wondering if a group like Move On would be interested in backing this.

You're right we are going to have to start making some noise. I'm getting tired of being bullied by these rethugs.

[Sugarbleus]

59. Blue State Alliances? I've got to go check into that..thanx

On this particular issue I feel like: Either everyone pays or nobody pays............but then, we do need services. It's a conundrum.

I'm going to KEEP ON swarming my reps, but any organized effort for change is right up my ally. I want to be part of it. Thanx again.

[bling bling]

53. What about Republicans living in blue states?

I'm sure they'll be happy to pay higher taxes right along with the Democrats the neo-cons are trying to punish.

This and freedom fries. Sheesh. Our country is run by a bunch of spoiled, bratty, snot-faced little toddlers.

[tavalon]

55. Bingo

add to that they are toddlers who actually want to be the punishing daddies. Dangerous combo.

[Sleepless In NY]

57. bling bling they can afford to find tax loop holes

The rest of us really can't.

[bling bling]

58. I know Republicans that aren't that well-off

I know a super-fundie-repub who is a contractor who doesn't have health insurance because he can't afford it.

I know another super-fundie-repub who drives 2 hours each way to and from work for more affordable housing for his 7 kids and wife.

Neither of them have a lot of money. They both vote Bush because their churches tells them they must vote for the "Pro-life" candidate and because they think the Repubs will protect them from gay people.

Apparantly their personal time and personal health and safety concerns are secondary to abolishing the rights of complete strangers. Pretty typical of mindset of the freak-show party the Republicans have become. Weirdo's.

[Vickiela]

60. Another Blue State attack

Not only AMT as an attack on Blue states but Rpublicans are talking about eliminating the federal deduction for State and local taxes. This is also a Blue State punishment tactic.

We have to propose an alternative to Republican Tax reform. We can't just play defense and be against what ever they propose. Neither can we wait until there is a firm proposal out of Bush's Tax reform panel. In New York, my biggest concern is that this idea of paying for tax cuts or Private social Security is going to be paid for by eliminating the deduction from federal Taxes for State and local taxes. Other articles have been written on how this will penalize more blue states than red states.

The recent Letter on Tax Reform from Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi is a good place for Democrats to start. Tax Simplification is what I would prefer. But tax breaks and tax loopholes that only the wealthy really make work for themselves has got to stop. I want a system that is less corruptible and prone to lobbyist tinkering with.

Payroll taxes are not Fair To the Poor and Middle Class, they are the most regressive of all. The Rich and their employers stop paying after $90,000 in income starting in 2005.

Middle class has 7.65% taken out of their pay and their employer pays the another 7.65%. If you make more than that neither the wealthy or the the employer pay any more into the system. That isn't fair!!

The Democratic Leadership is right when they say it takes an average American 7 plus hours to fill out a tax return and if you are self employed you pay the full 15.3% payroll tax pus the income tax.

I want Democrats to propose or co-opt away from Republicans a Tax reform and/or Social Security reform package that makes sense for the poor and middle class.

The super Rich only pay 12 to 16% net on their millions made from their inherited billions, while I pay 25% in Income tax and 15.3% in payroll tax.

Either a Flat Tax or a Fair Tax or something else simple that we propose as a positive agenda item and solution.

We are going to shoot ourselves in the foot again if all we do is spend the next 4 years complaining about Republicans without a viable alternative proposal on the table that we can all promote.

[sadiesworld]

61. Hey, way to go...

you figured out the Norquist plan...and you like it!

Also, enough already with the "we" crap.

[Guaranteed]

66. Let's just use this to OUR advantage. THEY'RE RAISING FUCKING TAXES.

And, yes, they're raising them for REPUBLICANS in states with higher than average state taxes.

Go to town, folks.

[Cyclical]

67. I'm tired of waiting.

Seriously, all this peace talk with Repugs can cease - wholly without value and a waste of breath that could be used to shout a battlecry. If they won't listen to reason, if they're going to overthrow the information channels and subvert the will of people who have no logical reason to support them, if they're going to co-opt religion to serve their own purposes, then there is no place for them in any country except the prisons. These motherfuckers don't belong in any government even as a minority. They belong against the wall and they need to burn.

I've got your fucking treason right here. It's what this nation was founded on. Blood and treason.