The haves are having a good holiday

[Robbien]

December 19, 2004

BY ANNE D'INNOCENZIO

NEW YORK -- This holiday season, Vincent Cassanetti, 60, a wealthy retired business owner, is helping to keep luxury sales booming.

The Palm Beach, Fla., resident has spent $50,000 on gifts for his wife and children, including $600 shoes from Jimmy Choo and Chanel, as well as designer handbags, jewelry and clothing. That's up from about $35,000 a year ago. "This is a really good Christmas," he said.

But that's less the case for Eileen Brosko, 70, a retiree who has seen her stock portfolio dwindle to a quarter of its value a few years ago.

"At my age, I am not doing too much buying. I don't feel secure," said the Parsippany, N.J., resident. She, her husband and their family exchanged names and are limiting the price of gifts to no more than $50 each. For her grandchildren, she bought tickets to a show at Radio City Music Hall.

The holiday 2004 season is turning out to be sharply divided between the haves and the have-nots.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-shop19.html

[KDLarsen]

1. I'm sure that Bush is weeping..

.. from joy, that is.

[leftchick]

2. chimpy*s base....

"the haves and the have mores". Sickening... :puke:

[JNelson6563]

3. Jesus wept.

:-(

[Rose Siding]

4. How many of the "have nots" understand...

the direct impact that politics has on their lives? These stories make me angrier than I am comfortable with. The intentional, deliberate steps that are driving the nation down this course were taken by clearly identifiable politicians who will only prosper from their deeds.

We all learn over and over that "life isn't fair" and "money isn't everything"- those old chestnuts come into play with nearly every movie or TV show we enjoy. But this new division is something different. It is calculated.

Congress decided that $600 shoes were more important than doctors for poor kids and that expensive handbags mattered more than heating the homes of the disabled. Conscious decisions have been made not to regulate health ins premiums and to promote industry-destroying policies.

How will the Have Nots (who could make an electoral difference) learn that politics can improve their lives? By watching C-SPAN or reading Nickled and Dimed? How likely is that? It isn't charitable, but today I believe the only reaction of many to nat'l ecomomic policy will be a more thoughtful choosing of lottery numbers.

[snoochie]

5. Many have nots who learned politics can improve their lives

tried hard this year. They got involved and registered their neighbors and voted and what did they get for it?

"Which rich white man will lie to us for the next four years?"

[TwentyFive]

38. Have nots are stupid - they voted for Bush in record numbers.

These people will always be cannon fodder, and go down with a shit eating grin on their face.

[QC]

54. Um, no. People making under $50k were the only income demographic

to give Kerry a majority of their votes. All the income groups above that went for Bush.

I'm sure it's very comforting to blame those oh-so-déclassé blue-collar types for the problem, but the uncomfortable truth is that middle-class white people--the same demographic that dominates DU--put Bush in office.

[hraka]

58. There's still doubt about who won

There are still so many arguments, most of them valid, that monkey boy really DID NOT win the 2004 election. However, when your base is the richest 1% of the voters, and the companies who count the ballots, it doesn't matter how many votes you really get. 2004 was proof positive that the presidency can be bought.

[MarkRockwell]

61. even if...

the under 50k demo gave Kerry a majority it's not like it was what SHOULD have been. When poverty levels are rocketing up and your jobs are fleeing the scene, where do you turn? To God, that's where - Vote George W Bush 04. Maybe if you can convince the "masses," as it were, that people VOTE for political reasons and PRAY for religions ones we wouldn't have a Repub in the ol' ville office.

[fortyfeetunder]

11. To that population

politics to them means voting their "moral values". Well to the have nots tough noogies, be prepared for four more years like this!

[MarkRockwell]

65. Ignorance lost us this election...

Those with this kind of money voted for Bush because he can help them keep it. Very classically liberal voting. Those WITHOUT the money are the ones who voted based on morals. If they too had voted for their best economic interests we wouldn't have to sit through 4 more years of this bitch ass.

Edit: No sexist/derogitory intent went into my use of the word "bitch" in conjuction with a reference to Bush.

[utahgirl]

12. I'm a Have Not

and I sure as hell understand. Have Nots have computers and go online, too, ya know.


utahgirl

[The Flaming Red Head]

15. Me too Utah!

If I had that money I wouldn't spend it on that kind of crap, though. Would you?

[Redleg]

42. Utahgirl, I am from Utah too.

I assume you are from behind the Zion curtain.

[Chovexani]

51. Thank you

Not all of us around here are limousine liberals.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

6. Salvation Army is not allowed to solicit at "haves" stores like Nordstroms

NiemanMarcus and other high end places. Why doesn't the Republican right boycott those stores? Why pick on Target where the poorer, working class folks shop?

Wouldn't the Salvation Army make more money soliciting the folks who Bush has made even wealthier instead of those Bush made poorer?

[okieinpain]

7. now why should they bother their beautiful minds with the poor.

[krkaufman]

8. nice one.

It's always good to throw their own quotes back at 'em.

[MarkRockwell]

64. In fairness.

The Salvation Army was asking for nickels outside of Easton Mall in Columbus, Ohio. The mall has a Nordstrom, Williams Sonoma, Benetton, BCBG, and even the Easton Yacht Club. They are, quite clearly, no stranger to money. (I would suggest that Salvation would get more invites if they didn't ring that god damned bell so often.)

p.s. Columbus is in Franklin County - going for Kerry - we did our part!

[genieroze]

9. Good, maybe Walmart will go bankrupt. rich people don't shop there.

Being working people don't have money they can't shop.

[Kimber Scott]

10. Since when have the "haves" not had a good holiday and the "have nots"

haven't? This is a stupid story. Rich people buy things. Poor people don't. Whoa, big news here.

[Learning2Fly]

13. The story isn't stupid

it points out there is a very real and growing financial gap between the wealthy, middle classes and poor that will impact life beyond the celebration of Christmas.

[leftchick]

14. wrong....

there soon will be no 'middle-class'. There is growing disparity between rich and poor. Sort of a redo of the Gilded Age. It is the gover norquist 'starve the beast' policies in action.

[AndyTiedye]

17. Didn't Charles Dickens Write Something About This Topic?

[barb162]

26. there is a very large and growing divide between rich and poor and

a lot of it is to the shrub's tax policy

[geniph]

36. Uh, no. Up until a few years ago,

this country had a flourishing middle class. Those people were the economic engine of this country. They bought most of the consumer goods. The middle class is being strangled to death and driven into poverty. Poor people don't buy consumer goods. The 1% of the population that's having a good holiday and spending $50K isn't going to make up for hundreds of millions of people spending hundreds less per person than they normally would.

This holiday season is going to drive a lot of retailers out of business. Since the larger retailers will suffer along with the small ones, and the larger retailers overwhelmingly supported the $hrub's evil cabal, I say you made your bed - you lie on it.

I feel badly for the small retailers being choked to death by this shit economy through no fault of their own, though. Well, some of 'em - the ones with the "We support President Bush" signs in the window can FOAD.

[Skittles]

48. yes Kimber, it's always been like that

but the difference is now we have a piece of SHIT misadministration that is ACTIVELY PROMOTING making the wealthy much, much richer.

[LeftHander]

16. HAve mores...Bush's base....have more this year

What the hell did anyone expect? The rich got a huge effing hand out...as usual.

I was feeling pretty good until I came up here and scoped out LBN and GD...

Now I feel like crap.

[Runcible Spoon]

18. enjoy your tax cut holiday fuckers!

:grr: :mad:

[Megahurtz]

19. makes me sick

the wealthy wallowing in their spoils while there are people that can barely survive. The selfish wealthy can choke on fruitcake for all I care.:puke:

[ivolsky]

20. Cutting Medicaid

A GAO report has found that, including the prescription drug benefit, Medicare may cost $27 trillion over the next 75 years, more than 7 times the estimated cost of Social Security over that period. Meanwhile, the administration is looking for ways to cut growth in federal spending on Medicaid.

"The moves come as the administration is considering a wide range of other new initiatives to curb the growth of Medicaid spending, crack down on improper payments and help states save money by restricting eligibility and benefits."

Under one proposal, states would be allowed increase co-payments and limit eligibility. Forty-seven Democratic senators expressed "opposition to any Medicaid reform proposal that seeks to impose a cap on federal Medicaid spending in any form or eliminates the fundamental guarantee to Medicaid coverage for our nation's must vulnerable citizens."

The president is always paying lip service to the poor and his so-called compassion for them. But words are cheap; Medicaid is not. The truth lies in the spending. And he's all for cutting it.

more: www.politicalthought.net

[blindpig]

28. a commentary on the price of drugs

If drug prices were controlled this would hardly be an issue. Just another scam to shirk the government's social responsibility while enriching your buds. Shameless and sickening.

[jljamison]

21. it doesn't detract from the story and I believe it to be true

..however, I have to ask, why does a 70 year old woman have money at risk in the stock market, money she apparently could not afford to lose?

Is that not very PC to ask? I sympathize, really. At the same time she and many others are victims of this Bush economy, she got some really bad advice or failed to understand the nature of at risk investing.

[Megahurtz]

22. Because a lot of these seniors

are Republicans brainwashed by the old Reaganomics :puke: some of them are still caught up in the Cold War mentality. They are desperate and living on fixed incomes and they think the only way to make money is through the stock market.

Bush is giving them the shaft too. :hurts:

[gtar100]

23. This is why I hate the Santa Claus myth

He cares more for rich kids than poor kids.

[hfojvt]

45. Save all your toys, for the little rich boys

"Father Christmas, give us some money
we've got no time for your silly toys
we'll beat you up, if you don't hand it over
we're really rough, so don't make us annoyed
save all your toys ... for the little rich boys"

The Kinks

[4_TN_TITANS]

24. may they choke on the caviar....

as long as my family has food, clothes, and a warm house we are happy. As if anyone is surprised that the rich keep getting richer. There's so much more to life than "stuff"....... :toast:

[Learning2Fly]

27. We'l l all be subject to the same risk soon

"..however, I have to ask, why does a 70 year old woman have money at risk in the stock market, money she apparently could not afford to lose?"

She is probably one of the majority of small investors and was depending on the portfolio and social security to support her retirement years. Anyone who has invested in a 401K for that matter has experienced the same result at some degree. One reason that privitization of social security is a bad idea.

And cuts to Medicare? It might be a meaningful gesture if rampant billing fraud was eliminated! Check out Sen. Bill Frist's family owned HCA hospital consortium and fines levied against it. You realize his personal "trust fund" comes from such practice. I dare the Republicans to run him in 2008.

[jljamison]

29. Stock market risks

"She is probably one of the majority of small investors and was depending on the portfolio and social security to support her retirement years. Anyone who has invested in a 401K for that matter has experienced the same result at some degree. One reason that privitization of social security is a bad idea."

Agreed about privatization. People don't understand what a risky proposition this is.

People really need to know that the stock market is not a meritocracy. No on is entitled to profitable investing. No matter how badly you need your stocks to go up in the short term, you are a fool to rely on that. The closer you are to withdrawing retirement funds, the better off you are shifting over to non- or lesser-risk investment choices through rollovers, etc. Seems to me a 70 year old woman should have had such options. If not, that truly is a tragedy.

[TexasBushwhacker]

33. Privitization of social security and other BS

I'm surprised how few people seem to realize that the only guaranteed winner in the privitization of Social Security is Wall Street. Does anyone thing you'll actually be able to freely invest your Social Security money in just ANYTHING? No! You will be forced to put your money in government approved investments like mutual funds and you will have to do it through some kind of broker or management service, to which you'll pay a fee whether your money grows or not.

As for the woman who's seen her portfolio shrink to a quarter of its worth a few years ago, she may have been stuck with a lot of company stock that she was not allowed to sell until a certain point. That's what happened to many of the former Enron employees. They were not allowed to properly diversify their portfolio and Enron's contribution to their retirement accounts was Enron stock, which soon became worthless.

[KingChicken]

25. I don't believe in welfare start socialism, but I am a human being...

We humans come endowed with a capacity of compassion, some choose to repress it and see everything in a social Darwinistic light, free market and all the crap that really doesn’t work. It only creates a hell where the most deceptive and evil make it to the top to whiled power over those who have the weakness of the heart called compassion.

I hope all you greedy, free market, flat land, self indulgent, vain, narrow minded, concrete thinking, righteous fucks have a good time capitalizing on the misery of other human beings, until the day you elevate yourself to the level of humanity and enter suffering that is desire.

I'm not a have or have-not, I work hard and I have enough, the rest goes to where it's needed.

[dreamcollector]

30. It is obscene BUT as a retired welfare worker

who has seen a lot it will work out in the end. The poor are more generous and give more than the rich (obviously) and that is why they put Sally Ann collection boxes in front of places where the poor and middle class shop. As for "life isn't fair"? That's what I thought too until I hit my mid-fifties and saw the chickens coming home to roost. The wheels of justice DO grind slow but they also grind EXCEEDINGLY fine. I know it's trite to say it but money doesn't buy happiness and virtue IS rewarded. Hang in there. I have to add that plenty of rich people are generous and lots of poor folk are mean.

[texpatriot2004]

31. Someday the "haves" will face the wrath of the "have nots" like

Marie Antoinette...

the "have nots" will rise up against the "haves" and there are millions more "have nots"

I suspect it will be a civil war of sorts.

[TwentyFive]

37. The 'have nots' voted Bush. They are so stupid - even if they did rise up-

they would probably shoot themselves in the foot.

[QC]

55. See post 54. n/t

[ivolsky]

32. George Bush, a true compassionate conservative

Over the past year, 1.3 million more Americans fell below the poverty line, brining the total number of Americans living in poverty to 36 million.

And with heating costs to increase by 24% from this time last year, the compassionate conservatives in Congress (and the President) have increased funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program by just $164 million, less than what is needed to cover the expected 24 % increase in home heating costs. In his budget for the 2002 fiscal year, Bush tried to cut HEAP funding by $300 million, despite higher unemployment rates and a colder winter. More on this here.

Those same Americans who can't afford to pay their heating bills "cannot afford the rent and utilities on a one- or two-bedroom apartment." According to the National Low Income Housing Coalition, "only four of the nation's 3,066 counties could a full-time worker making the federal minimum wage afford a typical one-bedroom apartment, the coalition said. And for a two-bedroom rental, the average worker has to take in at least $15.37 an hour, "nearly three times the federal minimum wage."

Meanwhile, spending on Section 8 rental vouchers, which helps 2 million low-income Americans pay rent, "hasn't kept up with demand." The Bush Administration has continued its efforts to cut up to 60,000 existing families from the Section 8 program this year through cuts to local Housing Authorities. "

for more signs of compassion: www.politicalthought.net

[greyXstar]

34. Didn't that weasel say he wanted us to keep more of our money??

"She, her husband and their family exchanged names and are limiting the price of gifts to no more than $50 each."

That's what my family has had to do these last couple of years...and they STILL voted for that assclown!! I honestly don't understand how so many people can be so blind.

The sad truth is though, that the Democratic 'leaders' are equally responsible. Have they stood up to these neo-con monsters as they've raped us and our country? Not in any meaningful way. They are a part of the 'haves' and will have a huge overblown holiday, while the rest of us have to get back on things, partly because we gave THEM money.

How many people this year gave their last dime and beyond to the DNC and Senator Kerry this year? And what did we get in return?? "I've got your back." "We'll count all the votes." Bullshit. It was incredibly hard for me to get behind and put my trust in a pro-war candidate, but I did it. The majority of you did too. And all we got were empty promises. Again..

Millions of dollars raised and 10,000 lawyers who DONATED their time, and Senator Kerry folded the tents before the counting was done. Terry McCauliffe didn't say a SINGLE WORD about the Rovian death cult stealing the election until AFTER Reverend Jackson did. And even then, he said he didn't think recounting would change anything.

The 'party of the people' seem to be doing just as much as Bush to create that huge gap.

Sorry to be so negative right before Yule and everything, but my blood has been boiling since Nov. 3rd and I just had to get that out.

[Swamp Rat]

35. Meanwhile, we poor students prepare for debtor's prison.

Vincent Cassanetti - compassionate conservative!

[SemperEadem]

39. the irony

buying $600 shoes from a gay shoe designer for some rwinger's painted up wife to wear... that's rich. I wonder when their sense of offense kicks in--and why they have no problem buying fashion from gay designers, but don't want those designers to marry.

[MrSlayer]

40. Good for them, mine is going to suck.

Laid off three weeks before Christmas and then some asshole stole my wallet last week. Oh what a joyous time of year. At least the kids have their stuff. The wife and I will do without. I guess it could be worse, we could be in Fallujah.

[Person_Of_Interest]

41. Their wish come true

It looks like to me there will be no more middle class... either your going to be rich or due to Bush's policies you will be dirt poor. :argh:

[Redleg]

43. I hope those Ferengi bastards choke on their fucking expensive gifts.

Rotten SOBS

[hfojvt]

46. Luke 12:19-20

The rich fool: "And I'll say to myself, 'you have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy: eat, drink, and be merry.'
But God said to him, 'you fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you prepared for yourself?'"

Happy birthday, Jesus.

"You may be a king, or a humble street sweeper. Sooner or later you dance with the reaper." - Bill and Ted's Bogus Adventure

[MsMagnificent]

44. Wal-Mart, Sears & May Dept. stores funded Bush: BuyBlue.com

On the other hand, discounters like Wal-Mart and mid-level stores such as Sears Roebuck and Co. and May Department Stores all have struggled with tepid sales.


According to BuyBlue.com

Walmart gave $2Mil+ of which 80% went to Republicans

Sears gave $286K of which 76% went to Republicans

May Department Stores gave 103K, 90% to Republicans


Awww... gonna cry my widdle eye's out that they're not making huge profits. Boo Hoo Hoo

Seems like our poor and middle class poverty is trickling UP -- it won't be long until the fat cats at the top of scheme will finally have their net impacted.

THEN we'll see some concern shown!


Anyways, if you can -- BuyBlue.com!
and Happy Holidays!

Edit: Stupid typo ;/

[demo dutch]

50. Did 90% of my shopping at Costco this year and the rest I tried

to at least buy "blue" labels like Martha Stewart etc.

Unfortunately, the net result is that all the sorry people that work in these Dept. stores will be laid off. It's a catch 22!
You would think by now that the part of the country that voted for Bush and can't afford to shop at Walmart would wake up and smell the coffee once of these days! But Heh! You can't help the people that don't want to help themselves!

[MarkRockwell]

60. Can't speak for all...

But as for Wal-Mart. These cats were down on earnings estimates this year because they didn't discount deep enough. They'll fix that up quick and the only people to suffer then - suppliers. Oh, well yeah, the employees (bottom rung at least) are sure to suffer no matter what. But most importantly, the execs make like bandits, the stock stays strong, and the Waltons keep Forbes spots 3-6.

[Tight_rope]

47. Some one has to keep the rich rich...might as well be the rich!

[neweurope]

49. It's the same everywhere. In Germany a journalist wrote something

about "what is it like to live in Germany right now." He asked people here and there and everywhere and finally went to a shop in Düsseldorf's most expensive shopping street. It sells fur coats the cheapest of which costs 20 000 Euro. The journalist asked "Well how's business, can people still AFFORD a furcoat for 20 000 Euro and above?" The shop keeper smiled sunnily and explained: "Oh, in the luxury range everything is just fine."

That's my favourite quotation right now: "In the luxury range everything's just fine." While the middle class in Germany is dwindling rapidly and the poor get even poorer.

[hraka]

57. Remember what Bush said while campaigning?

He looked around the room at a fundraiser and said they were "the haves, and the have mores".

[neweurope]

66. Hadn't heard that one before

:puke:

[hraka]

52. Just think what $50,000 could do...

So many people left homeless in Florida due to the multiple hurricanes and this guy is buying $50,000 worth of frivolous gifts. Makes me sick. I too buy gifts for my family and close friends, but I also remember who got me where I am, like the social service agencies who lent a hand when I was down. I'm no saint, but the divide between the haves and the have nots could be a lot less if the haves would extend their hands to those in need.

[hraka]

53. Buy from pro-equality companies

Worried your dollars are going to companies that support Bush or to companies that don't have fair hiring and promotion policies? Well, here's our chance to send the message that we do care. Not all stores are listed but the top retailers are and Walmart and Sam's Club aren't there (imagine that). Costco is, though.

http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Search_the_Database&Template=/CustomSource/WorkNet/srch.cfm&searchtypeid=1&searchSubTypeID=1

[MarkRockwell]

63. words of wisdom

Supporting companies because of their fair employment practices is great. Boycotting companies because they gave money to your political opponent is what gave us "W" ketcup.

[oneold1-4u]

56. National sales tax--

comes to mind. With all these rich and politicains (tax paid)who have such great amounts to spend it seems the only way they will ever have to pay a tax. I believe they should have to pay an exorbitant tax on imported BIG items too. They could reinstate the luxury tax on many big items that wouldn't hurt the poor who never owned luxury.
I think owning 3-4-5-homes is a luxury too.

[MarkRockwell]

59. How incredibly silly you all are.

Before you went off on a wild rant did you stop to consider? What if Mr Vincent Cassanetti - a retired business owner - had given 1 million dollars to charity this Christmas? What if he had spent his entire business career paying his workers a living wage with great benefit, the whole 9. Would you still hate him so much just because he spent a lot of money on his family? Would you rather he didn't spend $600 buying handmade shoes that were undoubtedly produced in America, Italy or France at a healthy wage?

Now, I'm as much for a socialist leaning state as the rest of you - hell, more than most people can imagine. In the end though, if you're in charge of a business, you've got the brains, the startup capital, and you make it work well then by god you've earned some extra money. I genuinely fail to see any other way. And if you have the money, if your company did great and your portfolio is flourishing, then why not spend it on gifts for the family?

Those of us raised in a Christian environment may recall a verse concerning eye contamination - a speck and a plank, I believe it was. Lets not forget that even a jobless Tom Dashle isn't in the soup line this Christmas. Earning money isn't bad, neither is spending it. Abandoning your fellow man is.

Yes, the Bush regime has misstepped on, quite literally, every single policy decision it has ever made. And yes, as a result there are millions more who cannot afford a very merry Christmas. But one thing to keep in mind, at least for the next 3 days, is that it isn't just Democrats who give from their hearts to genuinely beneficial charities. Even the Republican rich, while spending bushels of dollars on their families, have been known to toss a few dollars to helpless among us.

[purduejake]

67. Yea, they help unless you are gay or muslim.

[Skittles]

68. lol, the trickle-down theory

:puke:

[OnlyInAmerica]

69. The haves always do

eom

[qwlauren35]

70. I guess its too much to ask...

that those who can afford to buy $70K worth of Xmas presents buy things that are American made...

Nope. Mustn't go there...