Party leaders humiliated by ID card revolt

[Tinoire]

Party leaders humiliated by ID card revolt

By Marie Woolf and Nigel Morris
21 December 2004


The Government's flagship plans for ID cards suffered a rebellion last night as more than a quarter of the Commons failed to turn up to vote for the Bill.

Labour and Tory MPs defied their whips in droves by openly voting against the ID cards plans or making their disquiet known by not voting at all.

The huge scale of abstentions by both the Tories and Labour will be acutely embarrassing to Tony Blair and Michael Howard, who both pitched their personal authority behind the ID cards plans.

But MPs argued that the cards would breach civil liberties and would be too expensive. The proposals were described as "intensely authoritarian" in the Commons yesterday.

(snip)

Over 170 Tory and Labour MPs failed to turn up to vote in favour of the Bill, which received a second reading by 385 votes to 93, a government majority of 292. The Liberal Democrats voted against the plans.

(snip)

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=595135

[roguevalley]

1. GOOD! F THEM! I will NEVER have a state ID card.

[Javaman]

2. circa 1941, "excuse me, but do you have your papers?"

as one nazi said to a civilian.

[dkofos]

3. I fear we will not be so lucky

[Nightwing]

12. I'll move to Canada

Not about to sit silently on this national ID card crap. I have nothing to hide and refuse to be tagged by the * brown shirts.

[jwirr]

4. There is a lot of talk about ID cards

here in the USA. So what is the difference between an ID card and our social security card issued at birth and our drivers license issued in the teen years? There are very few of us who don't already have these items.

[mhr]

5. Who Controls The Databases And For What Purpose, To What End?

Those are the questions.

[dbt]

11. Diebold, perhaps?

Because they are "committed to delivering (insert desired result here) to the President."

:evilgrin:
dbt

[mulethree]

6. We've all got fingerprints too

The issue is more when and why do you have to identify yourself.

Your boss needs your SSN to credit your FICA withholding, and the SSA needs it when you claim benefits. If thats all you needed it for then I don't think there would be a problem. But look at who asks for your SSN now, and whether they have any connection at all to the SSA? There are laws too, commonly ignored, about who can ask for it, for what purposes and how they have to inform you about why they want it. Good luck getting an x-ray or a bank account without these people requiring your SSN for purposes totally unrelated to the SSA.

So once it's out there for some good, innocent reason; can we trust that other, less innocent, uses won't be instituted for it? Not if we go by the history of the SSN as an example.

I think we should go by the constitution, unless you have reasonable cause to suspect me; then its none of your business who I am. But in this century, failure to identify yourself on demand, and prove it; has become reasonable cause for suspicion.

[Just Me]

16. The difference: further funnelling of wealth & concentration of power.

Funnels even further public into coporate profiteering off a fear dramatized for public consumption. Further concentrates power by making us all potential criminals rather than presumed innocents.

Worse, an additional identification card obviously places greater restriction on ALL the balancing weights against the demolition of that experiment called, democracy.

[magellan]

7. It's another crock

No one on either side of the pond has bothered to explain exactly how national ID cards are more secure. Clearly they aren't if we all wind up on some gov't database. And no matter what security measure is used, cards will soon be forged/available for the "right price" somewhere in the world.

Something else no one's mentioned: how much it will COST each of us to obtain one of these gems.

I think the answer to the second question is part of the TRUE motivation behind national ID cards.

[Sugarbleus]

8. Solemn post here.....

Forgive me but this comes to mind: 'They will neither buy nor sell (or get or do anything else) without the mark of the "Beast"'

America and it's brand of Capitalism/Imperialism has become the "Beast", IMO JUST SAY NO!
:scared:

[Paleocon]

10. That's bible stuff... You can't post that here...

Just joshing with you, I see it the same way...

[Nightwing]

13. And that in a nutshell is why I will not take this BS

Glad to see another DU'er post my thoughts exactly.

[Sugarbleus]

15. LOL... I hear ya

Sugarbleus=:spank:

[Moloch]

9. Good. Anything that embarasses Tony Blair.

I'm fer it.

Wasn't 1984 about Britian?

[Englander]

14. Yes. Or "Airstrip One" as we are now known......

"The US base at RAF Fairford,Gloucestershire now has the longest runway in Europe after a major extension programme completed last year."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/focus/2003/03/war_fairford.shtml