Florida judge rules ...association can foreclose on man who defied flag ru

[MaineDem]

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla., Sept. 11 — A man who owes $21,000 to his homeowners association for flying an American flag from a 12-foot pole in his yard could lose his home next month to cover the debt.

Former Marine George Andres vowed to appeal Wednesday's ruling allowing foreclosure on his property, the latest chapter in a three-year legal saga that has drawn support from Gov. Jeb Bush.

The Indian Creek Phase 3B Homeowners Association permits flags flown only from brackets attached to house walls; Andres objected because the flag would have touched bushes in his yard.

A judge ruled in 2000 that Andres didn't have a right to erect the flag pole and the association filed a lien on the property to collect its lawyers' fees and legal costs.

http://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusgen/ap09-11-095103.asp?t=apnew&vts=91120031032

Well, if there are rules they apply to everyone. In my opinion.

[prolesunited]

1. In light of this fact

"Andres objected because the flag would have touched bushes in his yard"

Wouldn't the path of least resistance have been to trim or cut the bushes? I'm sure he agreed to abide by the covenants when he moved in there, so he's clearly wrong. How would he have felt it the gay couple next door erected a flagpole from which to fly a rainbow flag? Do you think Gov. Bush would be stepping in to defend their First Amendment rights. :eyes:

Of course, this will be spun as some anti-American, anti-flag crusade. Now that the 10 Commandments have been moved, maybe the protesters from there can go help this guy out.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. Let me put this in perspective for you:

(1) The government can't take your house away, but the spiteful neighbors on the board, can.

(2) At least in Florida, almost all, if not all, new subdivisions are established with HomeOwner's Associations which will cut down on your home owner choices in the future. Eventually, we'll all be living behind gated communities.

[rustydog]

11. The Government CAN take one's home away !

Imminent domain.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. In Eminent Domain, they pay you for the possession.

In Florida we also have something called HomeStead. In a nutshell, you get to keep your house if there's a bankruptcy. So the government can't take your home, but if you fail to pay the HOA's fee, the HOA can foreclose on your home.

[patdem]

2. That'll teach ya to move into a community with HO Associations

We purchased 25 acres in a rural part of this state when a land association purchased a bunch of land and parceled it out...some who bought in this same area wanted to start an Association....I objected..and stated that if I wanted to join a Home Owners Association I would not move to the country and purchase 25 acres...I thought it was the most absurd thing I have ever hear of!!!

[DemVet]

6. Yep.

That was my first consideration when I bought my home - no Homeowners Association.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Local government is in favor of H.O.A.s

Because the taxes they receive are gravy. The HOA's have to collect additional money from the homeowners for roads, stormwater ponds, lighting and anything else the HOA owns. So the relationship between developers and the municipalities that approve the development is just a bit too cozy for my taste.

[sham]

3. I'm a little confused on one detail.

The article says:
Former Marine George Andres vowed to appeal Wednesday's ruling allowing foreclosure on his property, the latest chapter in a three-year legal saga that has drawn support from Gov. Jeb Bush.

That doesn't make it clear whose side Jeb is on. I'm assuming he's supporting Andres. Is that correct?

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Jeb supported the displaying of the flag

I believe he even passed legislation to make it legal, despite HOA rules. But the law cannot be applied retroactively.

I could be wrong on this one. Someone else feel free to correct me.

[sleipnir]

4. Yeah, but still

At least the man tried to honorably display the flag. I'm so sick of the pseduo patriots with their SUV flags, ripped to shreds, driving around. They're also the people that have the faded, torn flag flying on a stick hanging onto the side of their house. They never retire an old flag and damn it, it pisses me off. The guy had properly erected a poll and probably took it down at night or had illumination. I hope he gets to keep his damn poll, let all those suburbinite flag wavers know how to properly display a flag.

[prolesunited]

9. They didn't say he couldn't display his flag

They said he had to do it in accordance with the homeowner association rules. Why should he get to keep his flagpole when it is in violation of the rules? There clearly was room for compromise here, but the homeowner obviously was being stubborn.

If you don't want to live by the HO rules, don't move into a community that has them. I thought Repugs were big on "rule of law" anyway. Or is that only when it suits them.

[FlaGranny]

10. That's true. When we moved here

our HO association gave us the rules and we had to sign a form agreeing to them before we were approved.

[Walt Starr]

13. Yep, HOA rules are contractually binding

He did, in effect, sign a contract and he has violated the terms of that contract.

If you don't like HOA contracts, don't buy a home in an HOA development.

HOA's can help add value to your investement because the enforced rules keep everything to a set level of upkeep. My HOA does not allow chain link fences and I'm damn glad they don't!

[Ediacara]

14. I have mixed feelings

you are right in saying he displayed his flag correctly, which is 10,000x better than most, but he has a signed contract saying he would not display his flag in that manner.

OTOH, HOAs are fascist so I hope this guy wins...

[PROGRESSIVE1]

12. I certainly would never move to Florida!

Sickos!!!!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. I think this could have been a great place to live,

if it hadn't been such a large destination place for Northern retirees. They come down with their hardfast prejudices, aren't in any position to adapt to a new culture, so they create their own enclaves. When they bunker down in a county, it's impossible to get them involved in paying taxes for things that would interest families with young children.

[David__77]

16. I support reasonable homeowners' association rules.

My homeowners' association has many rules that are determined by our elected representatives. I do think there should be some reasonable bounds as to what these can be, but I think that prohibiting the placement of a flagpole is not generally unreasonable. I also believe that there were alternatives here. Perhaps the homeowner could have flown a smaller flag that would not touch the shrubbery, or maybe the association could have allowed the shrubs to be trimmed so as not to infringe the flag. I don't know the details, but I do think either side could in this situation have been unreasonable.

Around the corner from my home, someone has painted the flag on their garage door. The paint is chipping on it and it is dirty. Not only is it an eyesore, but is not even a respectful seeming display. That would be an example of too much.

[esse_quam_videri]

18. I dunno, I wouldn't want my flag touching a 'bush' either...

:smoke: