Exit Poll Says Liberal Yushchenko Wins in Ukraine

[kostya]

KIEV, Ukraine (Reuters) - An exit poll in the re-run of Ukraine's presidential election Sunday showed liberal challenger Viktor Yushchenko had beaten Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/ukraine_dc

[Barrett808]

1. But we know about the accuracy of exit polling...

...since 2000...

[leftchick]

4. that is only in the USA....

they are accurate everywhere else in the world. :eyes:

[podnoi]

7. Will they (MSM) cover massive disinfranchisement in East?

Will they cover the voting problems in the east? I doubt it.

[TankLV]

18. You can't cover something that doesn't exist.

Or exists only in your mind.

Sucks to be on the losing side of truth and justice, doesn't it?

[podnoi]

52. Truth and Justice? Naw....

Tank,
Yes Yuschenko has won. But the truth and justice thing just doesn't cut it. This was a victory for interference not democracy.

Your little comments about "Russian Immigrants" show where you are at in this. What do you want, to ship them all out now? Or would you prefer they just be repressed?

[TankLV]

61. Can't argue with my facts so you change the subject.

If the russian immigrants wish to continue to live in the Ukraine - I suggest they adopt the language and customs of their adopted home. If not, I do suggest they leave - the Ukraine is there anymore for the russians' taking.

And I know where russians like you stand on the issue, too. You are suggesting that the Ukrainians remain second class citizens or slaves of the russian carpetbaggers in their own country! Yushchenko's opponent doesn't even speak Ukrainian!

No matter how YOU and your kind would wish it, it IS A VICTORY FOR DEMOCRACY - and against the interference of the corrupt current goons in power in the Ukraine.

[uppityperson]

2. Good for those exit polls.

I can hardly wait to read the responses to this news. Seriously, congratulations and hope the counting goes well.

[podnoi]

6. Massive names removed from rolls in Yanukovich territory

I have relatives in the eastern half of Ukraine. My spouse is on the phone right now with them. They said many of their friends were turned back at the polls. Entire buildings removed (a building is a large apartment complex). These name were there in the previous votes, but removed this time around. Massive disinfranchisement.

Disclaimer: I am not a Yanakovich supporter. I am just appalled at the propaganda in this election. The Yushenko side does not represent democracy any more than the opponent, but this is being promoted as such. Travesty.

[Robbien]

9. Yes no matter who wins, the people of Ukraine lose

Its too bad Ukraine is vital for the distribution of oil. They may have had a chance otherwise.

[makhno]

28. Enter Timoshenko, stage right

Finally an opportunity for Yushchenko's oil passionaria to exercise her embezzling magic in cahoots with W's energy cabal.

[Tinoire]

35. Interesno... I've been researching this a little & not liking what I see

It seems what we want in Ukraine is someone who will open it up to corporate interests. Another Boris Yelt'sin. How close are Yushchenko's ties to the same oligarchs/mafia Putin has been throwing in jail? Do you know?



===
Bush Adminstration Spent $65 Million to Help Opposition in Ukraine

December 10, 2004

By: Matt Kelley
Associated Press

Printer Friendly Version

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has spent more than $65 million in the past two years to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won last month's disputed runoff election.

(snip)

But officials acknowledge some of the money helped train groups and individuals opposed to the Russian-backed government candidate — people who now call themselves part of the Orange revolution.

For example, one group that got grants through U.S.-funded foundations is the Center for Political and Legal Reforms, whose Web site has a link to Yushchenko's home page under the heading "partners." Another project funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development brought a Center for Political and Legal Reforms official to Washington last year for a three-week training session on political advocacy.

(snip)
The four foundations involved included three funded by the U.S. government: The National Endowment for Democracy, which gets its money directly from Congress; the Eurasia Foundation, which gets money from the State Department, and the Renaissance Foundation, part of a network of charities funded by billionaire George Soros that gets money from the State Department. Other countries involved included Great Britain, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Canada, Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

Grants from groups funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development also went to the International Center for Policy Studies, a think tank that includes Yushchenko on its supervisory board. The board also includes several current or former advisers to Kuchma, however.

IRI, Craner's Republican-backed group, used U.S. money to help Yushchenko arrange meetings with Vice President Dick Cheney , Assistant Secretary of State Richard Armitage and GOP leaders in Congress in February 2003.

(snip)

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=10108&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported



====
(snip)

the U.S. government, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), granted millions of dollars to the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), which is administered by the U.S.-based Freedom House.

PAUCI then sent U.S. government funds to numerous Ukrainian non-governmental organizations (NGOs). This would be bad enough and would in itself constitute meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. But, what is worse is that many of these grantee organizations in Ukraine are blatantly in favor of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko.

Consider the Ukrainian NGO International Center for Policy Studies. It is an organization funded by the U.S. government through PAUCI. On its Web site, we discover that this NGO was founded by George Soros' Open Society Institute. And further on we can see that Viktor Yushchenko himself sits on the advisory board!

(reluctant snip)

This May, the Virginia-based private management consultancy Development Associates, Inc., was awarded $100 million by the U.S. government "for strengthening national legislatures and other deliberative bodies worldwide." According to the organization's Web site, several million dollars from this went to Ukraine in advance of the elections.

(snip)

http://antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=4135
==================

THE ELECTION crisis in Ukraine highlighted once again how much the mainstream media reads straight from the White House script.

Still breathless from cheerleading the destruction of Falluja, the media fell right in line with the administration, portraying the standoff as a Cold War-style battle between a Russian-sponsored authoritarian, Viktor Yanukovich, and the Western-backed democrat, Viktor Yushchenko.

Journalists failed to mention that the supposed Moscow puppet, Yanukovich, did Bush’s bidding last year by dispatching Ukrainian troops to Iraq. The same newspapers that ignore or deride protesters in the U.S. enthused over mass demonstrations in Kiev staged by supporters of Yushchenko.

They dutifully repeated Bush’s pronouncement that the upcoming election rerun “ought to be free from any foreign influence." Someone at the White House forgot to tell Republican Sen. John McCain, who chairs the International Republican Institute, and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, his counterpart at the National Democratic Institute. Both outfits--which are part of the government-funded National Endowment for Democracy--were active in Ukraine supporting Yushchenko’s candidacy.

(snip)

There’s no doubt that supporters of the Russian-backed Yanukovich stole the November 21 runoff election. But for all his opposition imagery, Yushchenko is a status quo politician--which in Ukraine means being an insider with ties to superrich “oligarchs” like Yulia Tymoshenko, who became wealthy through corrupt privatization of state-owned industry following the collapse of the former USSR in 1991.

(snip)

http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/523/523_03_Ukraine.shtml

[Just Me]

45. The military-corporate-complex seems to be spreading,...

,...like a disease around this great globe.

:hi: Thanks, Tinoire!!!

This situation in Ukraine has held my interest.

Naturally, it's a phenomenon which captures interest because of the layers of powers involved: a new predatory "super-power", an old "power" seeking gravity, a coalition of powers seeking balance, and humanity asserting a presence.

But, I am a simple person,...who prefers to observe and absorb rather than get entangled in the intricacies of such things.

[makhno]

56. Thanks for the interesting links

It's a murky situation. I don't think it's as clear cut as some here and in the media would like it to be. For instance, what can we make of the fact that in the past week alone we've had

- Putin's trip to Germany
- Putin's comments that Yushchenko's first trip will be to Moscow at a press conference last Wednesday
- Russian state media (ORT, etc) obvious switch from promoting Yanukovich to a pro-Yushchenko position

I'd be inclined to think that the election is really more about who gets the lion's share in the wave of privatization that's coming up in Ukraine. Yanukovich had perhaps made promises to Putin and his cohorts among the new business bureaucracy that made Putin look favorably upon his candidacy. Then perhaps assurances were made by Schroeder and the Yushchenko camp that Russian companies will be involved in the upcoming yard sale, and so Putin's pro-Yanukovich stance melted away. European and US interference in the elections likely also had the same motivation - to ensure EU and American companies' participation in the sell-off of Ukrainian national interests. Strategic benefits such as "isolating" Russia or expanding NATO also have a role to play, but not a dominant one, I think.

As an aside, one helpful thing to remember is that Putin is not some kind of latter day Peter the Great. He represents the economic interests of the Russian bureaucratic elite, and is absolutely not concerned about a "Russian geopolitical revival" outside of comments made for the domestic consumption.

[TankLV]

19. I have proof of the opposite of what you say.

The putin/russian supporters pulled that crap over the last couple years in trying to prevent Yushenko's supporters from even meeting.

That's what all the UKRAINIAN PEOPLE are saying.

Only the RUSSIAN immigrants are pulling this crap on UKRAINIANS in their own country!

[Tinoire]

36. Just wish them true independence

I just wish the Ukrainians true independence- both from the West and from Russia and it seems they're caught in a tug of war between the two countries again.

Plenty of meddling, and it scares me when I see how much money Bush poured into Ukraine lately. Also scares me to see they flew Yushchenko in for meetings with Cheney, Armitage and other GOPers.

Looking for more and hoping to read more facts from both sides of this.

[TankLV]

41. Thank you for bringing it all into perspective.

Sometimes, the bigger picture tends to get lost in the shouting.

[Javaman]

44. That's because Yushenko is a FOB...

It's all about a pipeline. This is yet another bullshit election. Moron, tried to be joe pro democracy, by supporting Yushenko. It's all crap, he supported him because he doesn't want to pay the russians money for oil. Now with yet another moron puppet to control, the US will get to control the flow of oil through the Ukraine.
Moron never supports anyone on the basis of the right thing to do, he only supports the ones he has made deals with, blackmailed or controls directly.

[Just Me]

46. "Moron" supports profits/power,...at the expense of people,...

,...they pretty much all do,...and those who don't,...get carted away or "removed".

"People" (other than their "own") are at the bottom of the human food chain *LOL*,...they seriously are no better than and in way many respects more destructive and disgusting than all that life typically viewed as "less evolved".

Geez.

[HEyHEY]

68. And none of the 12,000 observers are reporting this?

[alank]

71. Hot News: Ukraine Voted Along Family Lines

Did you get a chance to read this article in the Dec. 27 Ottawa Citizen? Must have been a Citizen exclusive!

Yushchenko declares victory in Ukraine

VOTE SPITS ALONG FAMILY LINES: It's the "enkos" v.s. the "vychs".

Matthew Fisher
with files from The Associated Press and The Washington Post

December 27, 2004

Jubilant supporters of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko celebrate in Kiev's Independence Square last night as they hear exit polls show the pro-western opposition leader held an unassailable lead in yesterday's election. The vote was called after results of a Nov. 21 election were thrown out because of widespread fraud.



CREDIT: Alexander Zemlianichenko, The Associated Press

KIEV. Ukraine's Orange Revolution peaked last night when pro-western presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko declared victory for an "independent and free Ukraine" in yesterday's election rerun.

According to exist polls, several international observers noted that voters tended to cast their ballots along family and ancestral ties. Those people whose last names ended in "enko" tended to vote exclusively for the pro-western opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko, whereas those people whose last name ended with "vych" voted for Viktor Yanokovych.

Andrei Meachenko, a Ukrainian history professor at the University of Kiev, noted that 95% of all Ukrainians have surnames ending either with "enko" (at 55%) or "vych" (at 40%). "It appears that in Ukraine, blood is politics" observed Mr. Meachenko. Although it appears that the last names of the two rival candidates were the deciding factor in the Ukrainian vote, first names were not a factor at all, both candidates bearing the same first name of Viktor. "Of course, logic behind vote has no bearing on validity of result, as long as is democratic vote."



CREDIT: Alexander Zemlianichenko, The Associated Press
Pro-Western opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko confers yesterday with his aide Julia Tymoshenko during a rally last night in Kiev. Exit polls show voting patterns were split along last names, with the "enkos" voting for Viktor Yushenko and the "vych's" voting for Viktor Yanokovych”, giving Yushchenko a wide lead

"I voted for Viktor Yushchenko!" declared an enthusiastic Dmitri Hesmychenko, a political science student from Kiev.

"Yanokovych is only solution for Ukraine!" shouted Yuri Poissunkovych, a retired bio-chemical worker from the east Ukraine, now also living in Kiev.

Three separate exit polls announced late yesterday gave Mr. Yushchenko between 56 per cent and 58 per cent of the approximately 16 million ballots cast, compared with between 38 per cent and 41 per cent for Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, seeming to confirm the last name voting pattern theory espoused by professor Meachenko.

Former Canadian Prime Minister John Turner observed that "the actual vote went smoothly, without incident." He stated that voting along last names lines, while "possible in Ukraine", was not a practice in Canada, where he has proof that "all of (Liberal) Prime Minister Paul Martin’s family, including himself, voted for (Conservative Leader) Stephen Harper during the last election."

Meanwhile, the pro-Russian candidate Viktor Yanokovych vowed to contest the second election results, declaring them a "sham", and a "Chinese style population conspiracy" by the "rabbit-like enko-breeding-clan."

During a rally last night in Kiev, with his trusted aide Julia Temoshenko at his side, Viktor Yushchenko was pleased with the unofficial results, stating that "those vicked vychs and their sons of vyches" will stoop to anything to "get their way" and accused them of being "communist cry-babies" and "Russkie loving losers."

Yanokovych may have an uphill struggle convincing the Ukraine Supreme Court to declare the latest results invalid, with 5 out of 9 judges having last names ending with the "enko."

:)

[DavidDvorkin]

3. Why, it's like deja vu all over again!

Although apparently the regime and the Russians are more likely to give up and accept it, this time around.

Sigh. Wouldn't it be nice if . . .

[Robbien]

5. The exit polls are run by US taxpayer funded National Endowment for Democr

So the Bush funded polls favor the Bush candidate. The same way he funded the polls the last time around.

Anyone surprised?

[kostya]

22. Three exit polls, which seem consistent with one another.

Also, remember there are an unprecedented 12,000 international poll observers on the ground.

From: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20041226/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine_election

The state-funded Ukrainian Institute of Social Research and Social Monitoring Center showed Yushchenko winning with 58.1 percent of the vote and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych garnering 38.4 percent. The margin of error was 2 percentage points.

The Western-funded Razumkov Center of Political Studies and Kiev International Institute of Sociology showed Yushchenko winning with 56.5 percent and Yanukovych collecting 41.3 percent of the vote, with no margin of error given.

A third exit poll, by Frank Luntz, a pollster for the U.S. Republican Party, and Douglas Schoen, of the Washington-based market research company Penn, Schoen & Berland, showed Yushchenko winning with 56 to Yanukovych's 41 percent, Schoen said. The margin of error was 2 percentage points.

"Today Ukraine will have a new president — Yushchenko. Everybody will feel the changes," Yulia Tymoshenko, a radical opposition leader and Yushchenko ally, told Ukraine's pro-opposition TV5.

- K

[Tinoire]

37. I posted in here... Bush gave them $65 million. at least

and our friend Soros is involved again.

[VegasWolf]

8. Yes, but what do the "voting machines" say?

[Wabbajack]

10. This is good right?

[Robbien]

12. No outcome is good

If the Bush backed candidate wins, all assets will be privatized by global capitalists and the country ruled by a Bush puppet.

If the Russian backed candidate wins, all assets will be privatized over to the Russian government (think Yukos oil) and the country ruled by a Russian puppet.

[Tinoire]

38. Bingo - at least that's how I'm seeing it too.

Totally sad for the Ukrainian people.

[Kolesar]

43. Yushchenko is hardly a "bush puppet"

hyperbole will get you nowhere.

[Paula Sims]

54. I don't think Yushchenko will be anyone's puppet . . .

which should prove interesting.

Yes, the "West" did pour in money to support the re-election efforts (Ok, part of me wants to shout "cheater's proof! cheater's proof" but it doesn't have the same impact in Ukrainian), but as my father says "if you're giving me money, I'm taking it!"

I think Yushchenko wants to bring Ukraine into the world as a partner within Europe that has a lot to offer in terms of natural resources, and yes, strategic positioning rather than the "little Russia" that has been been its moniker.

In either case, I hope the days of beheaded journalists are over -- at least in Ukraine.


Paula

P.S. I must admit to shedding a tear or two when hearing the Ukrainian national anthem played during an NPR story.

[Kolesar]

55. My grandfather used to say "for free take, for buy, waste time"

I had been saddened to see how Ukraine was being drawn into the Russian sphere of influence since the end of the Soviet Union. Now I see reason for hope.
Welcome to the Democratic Underground! :hi:

[Applan]

11. How accurate are the exit polls?

It will be very interesting to see how accurate they are. And then try to explain why ours were so far out!

[hippiechick]

13. Kick

:hippie:

[arikara]

14. Which must mean that the right winger wins...

I was wondering that since the Chimpistas want the "liberals" to win which is totally unheard of... are the Ukraine "liberals" the same type as the BC "liberals"? (In BC, the neo-cons hijacked the liberal party and brought in an extreme right-wing capitalistic manna-based agenda and in 4 years have managed to sell off much of the province's public resources to their corporate masters)

[pretzel4gore]

17. Yushchenko promises to remove troops from Iraq!

something defies common sense here.....the busheviks(?) fund the opposition to overturn corrupt election, and the new guy promises to undo the one thing the busheviks usually for! When the entire Ukraine issue arose, just after news about busheviks fukking around in USA, it seemed that they wanted the bush media to show what happens when someone does election fraud (by design, the same thing would happen in US if there was fraud, thus proving no fraud in america)...one must remember that popular uprisings have already forced out gov's in georgia last year, and this follows years of remembering the solidarity gov in poland, the fall of berlin wall and the death of ussr....the east european people certainly do.....

[TankLV]

20. Nope - just because bushco seems to support the side of truth and justice

this time around, doesn't make it a bushco conspiracy.

In this instance - the broken clock IS "right twice a day".

[CAcyclist]

64. I prefer a different couple of cliches: "Follow the money"

and "the leopard doesn't change his spots".

There's nothing broken about Bush. Malevolent, yes, broken, no.

[American Tragedy]

15. I hope their exit polls are better than ours.

[Rose Siding]

16. LOL, NYT says they have three exit polls.

Maybe that's the trick

Three Exit Polls Project Opposition Leader as Winner in Ukraine Vote

http://nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Ukraine-Election.html?hp&ex=1104123600&en=f769687bbdd197f5&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[daleo]

48. Why can they afford 3, and the U.S. media can only afford 1? n/t

[0007]

23. Me too!

[bin.dare]

21. Yuschenko is a NEO-liberal ...

... the reason america likes him is because he promises to open Ukraine resources to be plundered by foreigners.

[makhno]

25. No, no, you don't understand

The reason the West likes him is because he is a democrat at heart. Kinda like Yeltsin - remember that champion of the people, Yushchenko fans? - was ten years ago.

[Tinoire]

39. His association with the NED guys, Cheney, Soros is very suspect

What are your reasons however for saying so?

Please provide links. If you prefer to provide your opinion, please be precise about what you're basing this on so I can research a little. I'm not doubting you, I'm looking for details.

[bin.dare]

57. happy to oblige ...

... It all started when, in 1993, Viktor Yushchenko was appointed head of the newly-formed National Bank of Ukraine. He was among the main architects of the IMF's deadly economic policy which served to impoverish The Ukraine and almost destroyed its economy.

The following are just a few snippets from recent links to get you started:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/FL02Ag01.html

This writer, who was posted in Bucharest in the early 1980s and has been based here for many years and was accredited to Azerbaijan in Caucasus in the mid-1990s, feels that after the collapse of the Soviet Union and former communist regimes in Europe, mostly money grabbing mafia-style leadership, supported by the West, have been thrown up as an alternative. They have built up massive nests in the West on which they then become dependent, like Russia's billion-dollar oligarchs, who also control "free media". Under the charade of globalization and economic laissez faire, hundreds of billions of US dollars have been transferred to Western banks and institutions, which have become debts for the hapless poor masses in these countries.

The man "selected" by the West to lead Ukraine, Yushchenko, finds his support among groups who have privatized public assets to their cronies.


http://www.counterpunch.org/volatile12012004.html

What passes for a democratic revolution in Ukraine is nothing more than a U.S. staged coup d'etat, very similar to the one the Bush administration backed in Georgia last year, which toppled Eduard Shevardnadze and helped to further pave the way for U.S. ambitions in the region. (1)

The cast of characters in this epic tale of revolution, American style, are: Vladimir Putin, the supposed arch enemy of the free world and our villain; Viktor Yanukovych, the president elect in question and at the center of the controversy, who is supported by Moscow; Viktor Yushchenko, the U.S./IMF/World Bank puppet hero and The People on the streets (the supporting cast), replete with costumes made up of orange hats and scarves, their props consisting of orange banners, flags and an endless sea of tents, which line the icy streets of Kiev and illustrate their resolve to stay until they are victorious.

Behind the scenes of the revolution, operating in dark alley ways, conjuring and manipulating the desperate images of a people fighting for their freedoms, are our usual suspects: The National Endowment for Democracy (NED), the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Freedom House and last but certainly not least, George Soros' Open Society Institute, all of whom helped to fund pro-Western candidate Viktor Yushchenko.(2) (Does anyone ever wonder about George Soros, famed 'philanthropist' and promoter of 'democracy' around the world? Soros poured fifteen million dollars of his own money into anti-war and anti-Bush groups during the presidential election, publicly proclaiming his hatred of George W. Bush and yet Soros and his organization seem to support the same agenda: exporting the U.S. idea of democracy to areas of the world strategic to U.S. interests and miraculously following the Bush Administration's chosen route for oil pipelines...)


http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411D.html

With trade liberalization (which was part of the economic package), US grain surpluses and "food aid" were dumped on the domestic market, contributing to destabilizing one of the World's largest and most productive wheat economies, (e.g. comparable to that of the American Mid West).

By 1998, the deregulation of the grain market had resulted in a decline in the production of grain by 45 percent in relation to its 1986-90 level. The collapse in livestock production, poultry and dairy products was even more dramatic

Following his appointment, Yushchenko immediately set in motion a major IMF sponsored bankruptcy program directed against Ukrainian industry, which essentially consisted in closing down part of the country's manufacturing base. He also attempted to undermine the bilateral trade in oil and natural gas between Russia and the Ukraine on behalf of the IMF which had demanded that this trade be conducted in US dollars rather than in terms of commodity barter.


http://www.counterpunch.org/nagle12222004.html

Viktor Yushchenko began his career in the banking structures of the USSR, as an official of the Ukrainian division of the giant centralized Soviet planning apparatus known as "Gosbank." In the final years of the Soviet Union's existence, the disintegration of Gosbank spawned many scams and crooked schemes. Under the guise of allocating credits for state-approved projects, the emerging "entrepreneurs" embezzled the equivalent of billions of dollars worth of state resources. Corruption proliferated under a collapsing regime where legislative oversight of banking activity was practically non-existent. Almost overnight, a new breed of financial "oligarchs" was born. Mr. Yushchenko likes to brand others as "oligarchs," but few people personify the concept better than he does.

[Tinoire]

62. LMAO! But thank you !!! :)

I'm laughing at me, at us, not at you.

I stayed up late last night looking into this and come up with some of that same stuff that I posted in a GD thread about this and his wife
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2870381

After reading the endorsements he got from the NED after his McCain/Cheney meeting, it was pretty clear. I don't like those neo people and I despise their ruses in other countries.

I am hoping that things will work out for the best for the Ukrainian people and that they won't allow the rape/plunder of their country, their resources for either America, Russia or Europe.

Welcome to again DU bin.dare

[bin.dare]

70. Thanks . Clearly you were primed to receive the info ...

... and recognized it, good for you !

[HEyHEY]

24. I heard he was ahead - not declared the winner

[kostya]

63. A formality at this point. He had about a 10 pt. lead with 98%

of precints (or whatever their equivalent is) reporting. - K

[makhno]

26. The neo-liberals finally got the results they wanted, eh

I guess the third time around is finally good. Listening to the BBC extoll the virtues of newfound Ukrainian democracy tonight, I'm left thinking that outright fascism is often preferable to a blinding appearance of democracy. It is too bad so many of our Ukrainian friends here on the American left are blinded by orange nationalism and russophobic hatred. Please remember that your enemy is not the Russian people nor your Russian-speaking Ukrainian brothers but the neo-liberal interests that will now plunder your country in the name of global capitalism.

[bpilgrim]

27. what matters is who counts the votes - what do the MACHINES SAY?

Josef Stalin, “it doesn't matter who votes, what matters is who counts the votes.”

peace

[makhno]

29. The man might've been a tyrant...

...but he sure wasn't an idiot. The OECD sleeps well tonight.

[JohnLocke]

30. Bullshit (nt)

[makhno]

31. You're wrong [nt]

[JohnLocke]

32. Stop spreading right-wing pro-Putin garbage (nt)

[makhno]

33. Stop being hopelessly naive [nt]

[JohnLocke]

34. Stop supporting Russian imperialism (nt)

[Tinoire]

40. Looks like it's a choice between Russian and American imperialism

I'm most unhappy for the Ukrainian people.

They suffered enough. I wish both countries would leave them the hell alone- but that will never happen...

[allemand]

53. Don't forget that it was also a victory for democracy,

and Ukrainians are certainly better off with a democracy where they will be able to vote Yushchenko out of office if he doesn't meet their expectations.

[robbedvoter]

60. Yup. They demanded revote, not recount. What a concept!

P.S. Romanians too. They also got a new Prime minister due to fraudulent first election. Not us. "The oldest democracy" as Powell called it.

[Darranar]

67. The mere choice of which imperial power to obey is not "democracy". n/t

[Karenina]

42. Russian imperialism/ Amerikan imperialism

The Ukrainians LOSE either way.

[Tinoire]

49. Hola Karenina!

:hi:

It's so sad. Many of my Russian professors were Ukrainian and I hate to see what's happening over there. They were some of the kindest, best people I ever met. Wishing them the best again but knowing it's a futile wish.

[Karenina]

51. I'm SO HAPPY to see your posts, Tinoire!

:hi: It's IMPOSSIBLE to explain to the Amis that their B/W concepts of good guys/bad guys simply do not apply in this situation. :SIGH:

[Darranar]

66. Opposing neoliberalism is not equivalent to supporting Putin. n/t

[HEyHEY]

69. Let me guess - you live in a nice first world nation?

Hey...the Russians SLAUGHTERED Ukranians for years...why should they feel Russia isn't and enemy?

[daleo]

47. Exit poll Says Liberal Kerry Wins in U.S.

"Washington, US (Reuters) - An exit poll in the re-run of U.S.'s presidential election Sunday showed liberal challenger John Kerry had beaten President George Bush"

[robbedvoter]

59. But in US fraud is no reason for revote. Our Democracy can take

a licking (or 2 or 3) and still pretend it's ticking.

[thinkingwoman]

50. well he must have lost then

oh, wait. That's only in America.

My bad.

[seekinguniqueness]

58. Good for him. n/t

[hippiechick]

65. Yanukovich Refuses to Concede 12/27 6 PM EST

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&e=9&u=/nm/ukraine_dc

By Olena Horodetska

KIEV (Reuters) - West-leaning opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko looked certain on Monday to become Ukraine's next president, but his opponent, the prime minister, refused to concede defeat in the bitterly fought contest.

Yushchenko has promised to end rampant graft and reform the ex-Soviet state's damaged economy. He wants to align Ukraine with the West, fanning concerns in Russia that it will lose influence over a region where it has held sway for 300 years.

Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich, who won a rigged vote last month, angrily rejected conceding defeat in Sunday's re-run and said he would lodge a challenge in the Supreme Court -- the same method used by the opposition to force Sunday's re-run.

That threatens to prolong the nation's five week crisis, although Yanukovich has failed to muster anywhere near the popular support that Yushchenko did. He gave no details of evidence to back his case.


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