(Military) Wounded billed for hospital food

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09/11/Worldandnation/Wounded_billed_for_ho.shtml

After a grenade exploded inside his Humvee in Iraq, Marine Staff Sgt. Bill Murwin was treated at a military hospital in Germany and spent four weeks at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Md. Part of his left foot was amputated.

His medical care was free, but the government billed him $243 for the food.

Then, just three days after he received his first bill for the hospital food in Germany, he got a stern letter saying the bill was overdue. It warned that his account would be referred to a collection agency.

Murwin, like thousands of other military personnel hospitalized every year, is expected to reimburse the government $8.10 per day for food. That's standard procedure because of a law Congress passed in 1981. But it has angered many military families over the years.

When Rep. C.W. Bill Young, R-Largo, and his wife, Beverly, heard about the problem, they personally paid Murwin's tab. Then the congressman introduced a bill to change the rules.

[benddem]

1. It is even worse

If you can't eat because of surgery or illness...you still get charged for the meals.}(

[saigon68]

50. A SMALL BILL AMONG FRIENDS

Garcon, the check please!!!!

[hang a left]

2. The f*****g nerve of these people

[Cha]

3. Stupid! Was that a ronny ragun thing?

[mbperrin]

5. Yep! Not only is ketchup a

vegetable, it's damned expensive, too!

[The Zanti Regent]

49. Brought to you by Phil Gramm and Del Latta

It was included in the Gramm-Latta round of budget cuts.

OH, THAT SCAMP PHIL GRAMM...

[PartyPooper]

4. This is so 'American' a la Halliburton.

:nuke:

[tom_paine]

36. Not "American"..."Amerikan"

Don't soil the memory of our imperfect-yet-still-beautiful Old Republic.

We don't live there anymore.

Using the old spelling of "American" should ONLY be used when referring to the time before the Bloodless Coup of 2000 and perhaps even the Attempted Coup of 1998 if you're a purist.

We live in Imperial Amerika now...

[PartyPooper]

43. It's very difficult for a spelling bee champion to spell it any other way!

However, I will try. Thanks for the history lesson.

:dunce:

[NNN0LHI]

6. I can't believe this is true. Maybe I just don't want to believe its true?

[RMJ]

17. It's true.

In 1988, when I had my daughter, I was charged $15.00 for my three day hospital stay(we had complications). Considering what it would have cost if I'd not been active duty and had to have her in a civilian hospital, I felt I got off pretty cheap. I saved the bill for her baby book.

What ticks me off, is the "we're turning it over to a collection agency" crap. That's just the military's incredibly lousy bookkeeping system.

[madmax]

7. This is an OUTRAGE!!!

:wtf: What next they're going to charge for meds? His prosthetic foot? I'm so mad I could spit nails. Why isn't wolf blitzer reporting this shit on CNN.

During the Democratic Debate last week Sharpton said, 'bush loves the soldiers when they're there fighting. He doesn't love them when they come back and need housing, jobs, education.' Hell the son of a bitch doesn't even love them enough to pay for their food.

This pos is going to give me a stroke. I'm going to bed. Wait til I tell my husband about this one in the morning! :grr:

[RamboLiberal]

13. And how about threatening to take the soldier to a collection agency

3 days after he gets the bill. All the soldiers should just refuse to pay and send the bills to AWOL, Rummy or their congressperson.

[madmax]

15. Rummy should be sent to camp X-ray and have

his testicles vibrated with a cattle prod. This law of charging injured soldiers was a ronnie raygun idea? Why in God's name do they that pos was such a great president.

I printed the article and left it on the kitchen table for my husband to read and take to work. He's the store agitator. It's working he's converted a handful of repugs. The scales are falling from thier eyes.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. This Is So Fucking Unbelievable!

How the hell did they ever get this through?

Why would they want to get this through?

No one noticed over all these years?

The Bonus Soldiers rioted when they got screwed after WWI, and it's about time our soldiers and veterans got a little pissed today.

Just got an email about how they're recruiting in Mexico. The article implied they can't find enough dumbasses here to enlist, but it seems the truth is they want recruits who are completely compliant and wno't make waves.

And don't have family to make waves. And don't vote.

[SoCalDem]

26. They are probably "promising" to give them citizenship and

allow them to bring their families to the US, ..(IF they survive their enlistment) :(

Too bad all those freeper types who LOVE the war, cannot just go sign up to FIGHT the damned war..:(

[bluestateguy]

9. Despicable

That's your "support the troops" crowd for you (except for Congressman Young). Oh, but don't question their patriotism. They have a FLAG on their SUV! And they sing "God Bless America" before the football game! What patriots!

Congress should table *'s $87 billion request until this bullshit rule is repealed.

[Zero Gravitas]

10. You have to be kidding!

<sarcasm>If Our Great Leadrer is such a big military booster, surely he would have made repeal of this insane REAGAN ERA law a priority!
</sarcasm>

[TheZoo]

11. "Support the Troops"

:puke:

I am glad that Rep. Young is actually thinking with his heart rather than his "party". Hopefully this Bill will pass.

[david_vincent]

12. Profiteering

has always been a part of warmaking. It's not surprising that this has happened in the age of "government can't do anything right, let the private sector do it instead."
I think it would be enlightening to combine this story with the other current brouhaha over the failure of companies contracted to feed the military to fulfill the terms of their contracts.

[meow2u3]

32. It's not government which can do no right

It's the freakin' private sector that's always lavish with their fees, costs, and prices, and stingy with quality and service.

The private sector, in my book, can do no right--especially a deregulated private sector!

[NYC]

14. This is horrifying.

I hope Rep. Young's bill passes.

I didn't know about this, and can't believe that a bill to make soldiers pay for their hospital food ever passed in the first place.

This simply amazes me.

[Scairp]

16. It's true

It's been that way for a long time. During all of my former husband's stays in Air Force hospitals (and mine for giving birth), we were billed for meals. And if we didn't pay it they would garnish his paycheck.

[madmax]

18. The only word that comes to mind again is OUTRAGE!

I'm printing this article as a handout to anyone I meet.

[TAH6988]

31. Of course you were billed for

mneals. That's one of the reaons the military provides you with BAS; to PAY for meals. If the military then PROVIDES you with meals, you have to give back some (or all) of the BAS. What's the big deal?

[Skittles]

38. I don't think that's a big deal

I think it BECOMES a big deal when soldiers injured in a WAR still have to pay. It then becomes very unseemly.

[lazarus]

44. the big deal

is that he was being threatened with a collection agency three days after receiving the bill.

[TAH6988]

53. And like I said

I find that bit hard to believe. It may be true, but it just seems not to make sense. The military already has a quick, convenient way to recoup "debt." They did it to me all the time.

[Scairp]

47. What the big deal is

The ACTIVE DUTY MEMBER gets a meal allowance. Dependants are not included in that. Should I have given birth at home so I would have to pay for food I didn't eat? We had to pay for my meals too. And I don't think that wounded soldiers should have to pay. I have never heard of a collection agency being employed to collect one of these bills. They usually just garnish your pay to get it. I thought that was really strange.

[OldSoldier]

63. They charge soldiers receiving Subsistence in Kind too

Subsistence in Kind is the official term for "he has a meal card and eats in the dining facility."

Your meal card, however, is no good in the hospital.

[IggleDoer]

19. It just in the military pay structure

The military is paid so much (tax free) for meals. If you don't eat a meal of if that meal is supplied to you (as in a hospital), the government takes back the "unused" portion of your pay.

Right or wrong, it's been the law for quite a while, long before Drooling Ronnie

[sandnsea]

23. Ummm, I don't think I ever paid it

1976, having a baby. I am about 95% positive I got my food free. Anybody else remember pre-Reagan?

[punpirate]

25. The ex-pay clerk sez....

This was, in the old days, known as separate rations. Before the days of the volunteer army, it was only available to officers and to married enlisted personnel, i.e., everyone who was not expected to eat in a messhall on a daily basis.

If you, as a dependent, were hospitalized in the old days, you probably were charged for meals, but never noticed the cost in the billing. In 1970, separate rations were ~$32/mo, therefore, the charge for three meals a day would have been about $1.10 per day.

Any time those conditions were excepted (unusual TDY where an officer might have to eat in a joint mess, for example), the expectation was that the daily rate for such times would be deducted from the amount already paid for separate rations allowance.

As an accounting measure, it's quite appropriate, in fact. The soldier is paid an allowance for meals in lieu of daily mess hall service. Hospitalization includes mess service, therefore, it's a form of double-dipping--being paid by the army for meals taken away from the mess hall and also receiving meals at government expense during hospitalization.

The perception of the public is that this is a deduction from the soldier's pay, but technically, it's not--it's a deduction from the separate rations allowance. The expectation in providing the allowance is that the soldier will not treat the money as income, but will use that particular money only for food; it's the same expectation for other allowances such as the clothing allowance--it's not income, but rather is for replacement uniforms. Despite those expectations of the military, pay and allowances alike go into one paycheck.

Today, though, for many enlisted soldiers, the separate rations allowance is a substantial part of the family food budget, so the soldier alone is not the only one suffering the effects of the charge-back.

In the instance of hospitalization due to combat or combat theater injuries, yes, it probably should be waived. After all, most of these people who cannot go back to active duty due to injuries are going to get screwed by the army in the process of being mustered out for medical reasons.

This was not so much a problem before the volunteer army. Then, if one were single, enlisted and stationed on any military post with mess service, it was almost impossible to get separate rations. One didn't get cash in one's paycheck to pay for food, because meals were provided, whether in the mess hall stateside, in combat or when hospitalized, so there was never any money which could be deducted for meals.

On edit, all that said, the truly egregrious thing in all this is that the army would, first, screw up billing to such an extent that they would send an overdue notice three days after the initial bill, and second, why the army is using collection notices for this in the first place. In the bad old days, this sort of thing was taken care of within the army pay system. If there was a large deduction in pay for something unexpected, the soldier always had the option of seeking relief within the military system (adjustment for monthly deductions of the debt, etc.). This sounds to me as if the military has chosen to further privatize an aspect of military life in a way which is wholly improper. This would be a government debt, not a private one. The threat of debt collection when someone is in the hospital for combat injuries is, clearly and simply, adding insult to injury.

[teryang]

27. Thanks for the info

I was never billed for my wife's food when she was hospitalized at Darnal Medical Center in 1987 although I did get the food allowance. Perhaps there was some reason for this.

Will troops in the field, (say in Iraq), get billed for food if they get BAS?

[punpirate]

28. The article says they are not...

... being billed now, though, by regulation, they should be.

As for you not being billed in 1987, I dunno. At least through the time I was in the military (long ago), those incidental charges did show up, either at time of discharge of the patient or as a deduction in pay. But, that may have changed considerably as the military has depended less and less on in-service hospitals and more and more on schemes resembling insurance- and HMO-based plans. The military health care system today is nothing like it was thirty years ago, and I haven't kept up with the details.

In a way, it's a reflection of the all-volunteer military thinking that combat excursions in the future would be minimal in length, so they don't have to think about the consequences of allowances. Now, with long stays for occupation and the particularly difficult instance of reservists on extended active duty, such problems are going to become more and more obvious.

Cheers.

[TahitiNut]

41. Yup "Sep rats"

Pocket money for Mickey D.

[dArKeR]

20. Not enough. I want to see 50% of the Conservative Christians' income

being donated to the Butchering.

[Cronus Protagonist]

22. Before or after tithing? (eom)

Click Here To See Fair & Balanced Buttons, Stickers & Magnets!>

[Gemini Cat]

21. Unfuckingbelievable!!

What next? Maybe charging soldiers to get shot at too!? Perhaps charging them for sweating while in Iraq? Can they sink any lower? Charging the soldiers for hospital food, that they wouldn't be eating to begin with, if they hadn't been wounded because of those f**kers greed. :grr: :grr:
And this has been going on since '81!?
Those sons of bitches are pure EVIL!

[Noordam]

24. 1981 and WHO was President.

as always the Repugs put troops last.

[TAH6988]

29. Actually it's Congress that did it

And all the military does is subtract the cost of meals from the allowance they give you for food. Kinda makes sense when you think about it. They give you a food allowance, then provide you meals, then have you use that food allowance to pay for the meals they provided you with. This is not a big deal.

[mbperrin]

33. I guess it also kinda makes sense

that a nest of vipers who avoided combat at all costs are so willing to let others die and bleed for them!

[Bridget Burke]

34. As explained elsewhere in the thread...

Formerly, adjustments in the food allowance were usually made through pay adjustments. Matters were handled by the military for the military.

Now, things have been privatized. The guy got a notice from an outside collection agency three days after the bill.

This is a very big deal.

[TAH6988]

35. Not sure that collection agency reference is true

The military just takes it out of your pay. Military pay has NOT been privitized. Just check out DFAS.

[lazarus]

45. not sure it's true?

What you believe every bit of the article except the outrageous one?

[TAH6988]

52. Nope

We all know how inaccurate news accounts may be, so I don'r neccessarily believe all. It's just the collection agency bit doesn't even come close to ringing true, since it's far easier too recoup the money from the member's pay via DFAS.

[Bridget Burke]

59. If you don't WANT to belive it,

Surely it's not true.

Close your eyes, cross your fingers & wish real hard.

[TAH6988]

60. Not saying I don't WANT to believe

it, it's just that I was in the military for 25 years (until a few months ago); never heard ANYTHING about "military debt" (which this was) being turned over to a collection agency. Hard to do and makes no sense. Far easier to have DFAS do it.

[haele]

61. DFAS no longer does most of their own work.

They have contractors handling most of the billing nowdays - the only time I've seen a GS employee working for DFAS is in a contract oversight position or as a direct liasion to a military unit.
Check out FedBizOps and see how many civilian-run base billing and accounting contracts DFAS is advertising bids for instead of running themselves with GS and/or military personnel.
I used to work for a company, RCI, that had a services billing contract with the Army on several Georgia bases back in 1998/99, amongst other things.
When I took my husband's ex-mother-in-law to Balboa Naval Hospital for an emergancy a few weeks back, there were several civilian contractors - not military, not GS personnel - working the pharmacy and admittance/check out areas.
Having worked myself for over 25 years in the DOD and currantly carrying a civilian contractor's badge myself right now, I've got no doubt at all that some over-zealous local collections agency contractor jumped on this debt - and is probably jumping on many other wounded military personnel once the "thirty days" grace period for billing after the initial hospital admission by the service member has passed and whatever accounting contractor turns the bill over to collections.

This is all thanks to unca Dick Cheney - his massive military logistical privatization programs in the late 1980's created a procedural continuity mess in that sector that has caused immense hardship when it comes to all the logistical areas, from accounting to retiree benefits. This is a small example result of bottom-line cost cutting programs in your government.

Haele

[TAH6988]

62. Maybe

Can you show me something where the military has used private debt collectors to recoup military debt?

[Ganja Ninja]

30. Freedom fries don't come cheap!

Does Bush pay for the meals he slops down at the White House?

[DulceDecorum]

39. Are Kenny Boy's meals

tax deductable?

[Castilleja]

37. ??? That is insane!

There is something wrong with that idea. Man....

[Guaranteed]

40. WHAT MOTHERF*CKERS??????

WHAT THE F**************CK IS THAT?????

[0007]

42. I have avoided read this post

believing that a soldier had been wrongfully charged while in hospital.

I can't believe this is true.

[marigold20]

46. Unbelievable

/

[Andromeda]

48. Unbelievable!

This is just totally outrageous. Why would they pass such a stupid law? And they're just getting around to rectifying it? This is even harder to believe.

Congress gets the best of medical care and a choice of meals when they are in the hospital---all paid for. Seems like they thought our military personnel weren't important enough to feed.

[rocktivity]

51. The problem isn't double dipping, it's incompetent accounting

If it could be figured out how send a collection agency after a soldier three days after he gets out of the hosptial, then it can be figured out how to make that meal allowance automatically transferable from a mess hall to the hospital! No wonder the Pentagon has millions of dollars unaccounted for...


rocknation

[Don_G]

54. The Biggest Problem Is Privatization

I gather that Humana runs at least part of the military's hospitals and has absolutely no qualms about asking for "theirs" from anyone at anytime.

The military is embarrassed about having to ask one of theirs to pay given the circumstances of their injuries per "Stars And Stripes."

I think we should be too and at least one Congressman is looking into it.


http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=16858&archive=true

[TAH6988]

55. Humana doesn't run

any "military" hospitals. The military runs them.

[Don_G]

56. Tricare?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=340836

[TAH6988]

57. TRICARE

Doesn't run the MILITARY hospitals.

[TAH6988]

58. TRICARE

Doesn't run the MILITARY hospitals.