AP: India says no to outside tsunami relief

[rainbow4321]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TSUNAMI_INDIA_US?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=INTERNATIONAL&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

NEW DELHI (AP) -- As the United States and other nations pour in aid to tsunami-buffeted Asian nations, India takes its traditional stance, saying thanks, but no thanks.

India, a founder of the Nonaligned Movement, typically proclaims it is capable of handling its own problems, politely telling allies and rivals alike to butt out. That message was conveyed to President Bush when he called, India's prime minister said Thursday.

"If and when we need their help, we will inform them," Manmohan Singh said. "Several countries have offered assistance to us. The president of the United States spoke to me; several other countries' statesmen have also spoken to me"

India may be pressured to accept outside help. It only took several days to let in foreign search and rescue teams after the January 2001 earthquake in western India, a 7.9 magnitude temblor that killed 13,000 people and caused an estimated $4.5 billion in damage.

[xultar]

1. Why? I don't get it? Are they afraid we are gonna find some WMDs

Why wouldn't you accept any help. Somethin ain't right here people.

[prodigal_green]

2. National pride

They will probably take help from NGOs, but they don't want to feel indebted to another nation.

I'm sending money via a friend's parents, who are from the Tamil Nadu area.

[BrightKnight]

36. They would be foolish to refuse help from NGOs.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

3. because they know that money comes with strings attached?

just a guess, i don't really know.

[TahitiNut]

14. Absolutely.

It's a myth that 'foreign aid' is mere generosity, even though support for it may include such motivation. Typically, the 'foreign aid' a country provides is in the form of loans or thinly-disguised subsidies for domestic industries. A country may, for example, offer 'aid' in the form of reimbursement for purchases of specific brands of vehicles (for government agencies, of course). The recipient country, in accepting such 'aid,' is inherently making a decision to maintain and replace such vehicles with parts and supplies from the same manufacturer and with mechanics trained by that company, essentially patterning their economics in the direction of that particular brand. It's even more obvious when it comes to computer technology. When foreign governments choose specific vendors for software, they're buying into a whole roomful of domino-decisions - all of which mean more market share and income for that vendor. Examples involving military hardware are obvious. Foreign aid is offering fish, not fishing lessons. In a sense, it's the same marketing technique used by drug dealers - getting hooked is free, but maintaining the habit is very expensive.

But it gets even more complex when the 'aid' is in the form of services rather than products. There are entire conglomerates formed for the purpose of providing consultation, research, advisory, and security services. I've seen the World Bank require a beneficiary country to obtain consultative and advisory services for restructuring various quasi-governmental processes such as "research and development" activities. The covert (but obvious) agenda was not only the refunneling of the World Bank 'loan' to targeted organizations, but to design certain dependencies in the resulting practices.

During the Cold War, this was pretty much how nations formed blocs. Nations in the Soviet "sphere of influence" were consumers of Soviet products and services (e.g. Cuba). Likewise for the US. India's colonial experience afforded them an appreciation of how such dependencies eroded their self-determination. Thus, they became a core "non-aligned nation" by eschewing such dependencies and holding such acceptance of 'aid' to an absolute minimum.

[Dover]

25. And Bush would be first in line to use someone's crisis for leverage.

Whatta guy!

[TahitiNut]

39. Yup. Corporatism = "Friendly" Fascism

Think of the scam. Taxpayer money laundered through a 'needy' country with the proviso that the money can only be spent to purchase goods or services from specified corporations ... and the corporations make a profit as well as "Gillette" continuations. (King Gillette's evil genius was in marketing, not razor blades. He was the one who conceived of virtually giving the razor away to lock the customer into buying the blades.) So, the taxpayers are, in essence, complicit in a kind of restraint of trade (so much for "free markets") as well as subsidizing profits for the fat cats of crony corporations.

While it can be validly argued that the majority of the funding does actually translate into value received by the beneficiary nation (especially those in charge, at the top), there's a huge amount of profiteering built into the process. (This is something the Japanese are somewhat infamous for, too. If any country does it more than the US, it's Japan.)

[papau]

19. Bingo - US Aid has more strings than even Aid from Japan - which

has huge strings.

:-)

[NNN0LHI]

30. I was wondering myself. I think you are right n/t

[Hillary08]

40. sounds like a good guess! n/t

[rainbow4321]

5. India's Indymedia: US notified Diego Garcia but not India/SriLanka

http://india.indymedia.org/en/2004/12/209978.shtml


There is already evidence that the US government had ample warning of the earthquake-driven tsunami, but did not communicate the information to the countries involved. US press reports indicate that the Pacific Warning Center in Hawaii, a facility of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, detected the earthquake when it occurred and immediately warned of the likelihood of tidal waves generated by one of largest temblors ever recorded.

Charles McCreery, director of the center, confirmed that his team had transmitted warnings to the US Navy, the US State Department and the government of Australia. The State Department claimed to have notified India, but the Indian government said it received no such warning in the two hours that elapsed between the quake off Sumatra and the tidal wave that hit the Indian coastline in the southern province of Tamil Nadu. Nor did the Sri Lankan government receive a warning.

But one Indian Ocean island was promptly warned—the US military base on the British-controlled island of Diego Garcia, the site from which US bombing raids have been staged on both Afghanistan and Iraq. The US base, about 1,000 miles south of India, directly in the path of the tsunami, reportedly suffered no damage

[xultar]

10. WOW.....Is this a media blast? This must be in the news!!! n/t

[jdj]

28. I heard that a private scientist tried to warn people

but couldn't get ahold of anyone.

[potone]

17. Dear God, this is appalling!

Was this just a screw up, or does our government really not care?

[shanti]

23. take a wild guess!

n/t

[donheld]

32. And then we wonder why we're hated

BTW welcome to DU :hi:

[jdj]

27. The only country that issued a warning was Kenya.

They told people to stay away from the coast, had 1 fatality.

Unlike neighbor Somalia, which had 150.

[progressiveBadger]

24. It is cultural

Japan did the same thing after their big earthquake in the mid 90s.

[jwirr]

33. This is not new for India.

They have been the victim of outsiders from the British Empire to the Christian churches and they know that nothing is done without a cost. I don't blame them.

[goforit]

37. Well........I can understand them managing their own.

They also may not like having others poke their nose in their
business.

[monobrau]

4. Look at the history

India was "helped" by the British enough that they value their independnce, even in times of suffering.

[russian33]

6. That's just plain stupid

National pride, whatever...suck it up. This is a national tragedy, take any help you get, it's not for the Prime Minister, it's for the people.

[liam97]

8. It is not about pride or fear of hiding WMDs

it is about suspicion with US imperialism which continuously tries to play the countries of the region against one and another. There is enough wealth in India to handle this crisis - in fact the Indian rich should indeed take this on

[KinkyDem]

21. And I quote Mr. Bush

"This is a line of credit."

Would YOU borrow money from that bastard?

"But the devil give you twenty when yer friend got only 10
I set out running but I'll take my time
Friend of the devil is a friend of mine
If I get home before day light
I just might get some sleep tonight."

[jdj]

26. They may be afraid that if we send people over there, we won't leave.

like in Iraq...

[amazona]

7. India is not a third world nation

Perhaps they feel they can genuinely provide for their own. How often does the United States accept outside aid? Cuba offered us outside aid during the West Nile crisis. The United States refused.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nexus7]

35. Who's "Ghandi"?

Who's "Ghandi", and are you sure he was buried?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WebeBlue]

9. Wow, I'm impressed, I think..

to recognize that aid from other nations often carries a pay back price tag later and to decline the offers is a show of independence I value, but with a catastrophe of this size and proportion, wondering too, if pride is getting in the way. But then I really don't know a lot about the culture of India, so who am I to speculate. Still, in this nutso global power grab, I am impressed that India makes it's own kind of statement in declining aid and telling B*** tx but no tx.

I like the idea of sending help another way and not as a begrudging handout from USA in the embarrassing way our leader has risen to the challenge.

[liam97]

11. It is only the "official" aid India has refused

not from ordinary citizens of the global community

[Jack_DeLeon]

12. Good for India...

they are a big nation, they certainly have the manpower and resources to do thier own cleanup.

What India chooses to not accept will just go to the other nations which arent as well off.

[EC]

13. Strings

East Indians are very aware of the strings that go along with "aid" no matter who it's from...

[jobycom]

15. I think "Nonaligned" is the key word there

Stuck between the USA and China, two imperialistic nations that treat enemies badly, India may want to prevent the appearance of choosing sides, to avoid the animosity of others. We are in a minor cold war with China these days. Any time a nation gets into a civil war, or has a rebellion or terrorist uprising of some form, the US and China pick opposite sides. This leads to splits within the government, funded rebel groups, etc.

When our Tomahawks missed UBL in 1998, China bought the ones that didn't explode from UBL. When we bombed Serbia over Kosovo, China refused to obey our radio blackouts (I forget the exact issue), and we "accidentally" bombed their embassy in Serbia. The splits in governments in some of smaller nations tear them apart. A few years back a royal prince supposedly went crazy and slaughtered the entire royal family at a wedding. Rumors abounded that the China/US feud was really behind the massacre (I forget which side was which).

India has tried to avoid getting sucked into this war, just as it avoided the US/Soviet battle last generation. When you start taking money from one side, you start forming alliances. Maybe that's what this is about. (And for the record, it's just a guess, I have no inside knowledge on the issue, or any info not gained from paying attention to published news stories and reports.)

[Javaman]

16. Remember too, that aid packages also come with "specialists"...

that help in organizing areas during a disasters. Those "specialists" usually are hired from the CIA.

[Skidmore]

18. Wasn't India part of the "coalition" or whatever * called it

that he was supposed to be working on to coordinate relief efforts in the area?

[Bridget Burke]

20. They will accept aid from the UN & NGO's.

Just not from other countries. I think that's wise.

They are not as badly off as the other countries affected.

[rainbow4321]

22. India damage/casuality lists (so far)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake#India



The Andaman and Nicobar Islands, just north of the earthquake epicentre, have had the most casualties in India. The tsunami reached a height of 15 m in the southern Nicobar Islands. It is estimated that 7,000 have died on the islands, and a similar number missing. One fifth of the population of the Nicobar Islands is said to be dead, injured or missing Chowra Island in the Nicobars has lost 2/3 of its population of 1,500. Communications have been lost with the Nancowry group of islands, some of which have been completely submerged, with the total number of the population out of contact exceeding 18,000. The Indian Air Force base in Car Nicobar, near the epicentre, is reported to have been severely damaged


On mainland India, the entire eastern coast was affected, killing more than 5,000 and rendering thousands injured and/or homeless The death toll in Tamil Nadu, which was most affected, was above 3,200. Along the eastern coast, 487 were killed in Pondicherry and 89 in Andhra Pradesh. Kerala, located on the southern part of the western coast of India, was also affected with 174 deaths and thousands rendered homeless. Hundreds were feared missing (1,200 in Andhra Pradesh alone). Most of the people killed were fisherfolk who lived along the coast. Many fishermen both at home and at sea were missing.

In Tamil Nadu where the official toll was 3,200, mostly women and children, over 1,700 were killed in the Nagapattinam district alone, over 400 in the Cuddalore district, over 525 in the Kanyakumari district and over 200 in Chennai (formerly Madras) city. It was reported that survey and rescue helicopters could not even land in Nagapattinam and Cuddalore districts due to floods and rains.Those killed in Kanyakumari include pilgrims taking a holy dip in the sea. Of about 700 people trapped at the Vivekananda Memorial on an island off Kanyakumari, 650 were rescued while the search is on for others. In Chennai along the Marina Beach, people taking part in various sports activities (including children), and those who were having a morning walk along the beach, were washed away.

It being a Sunday, there were more people than usual on the beach. Some unconfirmed reports claim that at least 5,000 fishermen and their families may be missing just from the Marina Beach area. A large number of pilgrims celebrating Christmas at the Velankanni church were affected. Eyewitness reports suggest that at least 1,000 people were on the beach on that morning. Water also rushed into the nuclear reactor complex at Kalpakkam, which was then shut off. No damage or radiation leak was reported The Indian Army, Navy and Coast Guard were pressed into service for undertaking rescue operations and to air-drop food to the tsunami victims.

[Dover]

29. Would be interesting if PRIVATE aid givers gave enough to make

all this leveraging by foreign nations ineffective. If all the individuals and bloggers give more than these governments WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED, I'll bet the governments would have to clamp down on them somehow.

It would be beautiful though....private individuals working together to circumvent their governments....

[Nexus7]

34. Sheesh... it isn't exactly a backwater

Don't believe the MSM characterization of India, they've got resources to help themselves. All sinister motivations in refusing aid aside, maybe they think it just isn't necessary?

They have government funds, private charities, several national guard-like cadres for manpower, ... you know... kinda like the US? Maybe they think the Red Cross would just get in the way? They're kinda leery of missionary zeal over there.

Also, they figured out the likely after-effects of the quake, a little slower than the US, but well in time (about 2 hours before the waves hit land). But in a classic bureaucratic bungle, they informed the wrong people (ministers of a prior government, now out of office).