The ocean tried to warn us, but we just didn't get it

[rodeodance]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11824548%255E2703,00.html

The ocean tried to warn us, but we just didn't get it

Kimina Lyall, Southeast Asia correspondent

January 01, 2005

A TSUNAMI announces its arrival. It does not creep up ashamed in silence to catch its victims unaware. It gallops, tail high, across the sea like a platoon of soldiers drunk on the excitement of being on the right side of an uneven fight.

It even sends an advance scout or two, smaller big waves that come from nowhere and then immediately retreat, leaving hundreds of metres of exposed sand as they collect water to feed the growing beast.

So, on Golden Buddha Beach last Sunday morning, on a barely inhabited island 200km north of Phuket, we were warned.

The warnings hadn't come from police, or seismologists, or even fishing boats far out to sea: they had come from the ocean itself. .......

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Chilling

I want to read the rest of it. . . .

[xchrom]

2. well, phuket!

nature has it's ways of talking to us.
not unlike our bodies that try to tell us when someting is going on.
listening seems to be another matter.
one wonders if 100 or 200 years ago people wouldn't have been better equiped to read the messages.
even in so called more primitive areas.

[shadowknows69]

9. the animals knew well in advance.

If mankind hadn't gotten so far from the earth maybe we would've too.

[jdj]

21. There was one island people that felt the quake and went to higher ground.

Someone even filmed the evac.

One of the English survivors was in Starbucks on Phuket and felt the quake.

And Kenya warned it's people to stay away from the coast, they appear to be the only country that had a scientific warning based on knowlege of the quake, and only had one fatality...unlike Somalia to the South, which had at least 150 fatalities.

The island was called Sumulu or something like that. They evacuated based on the tremors because they experienced a terrible tsunami in the 1800s, so as a tradition the entire town goes to higher land in the even of a quake. They were hit on the north shore fairly badly, but just a few people were killed.

[Sweet Pea]

28. Ummmm....

Somalia is to the NORTH of Kenya.

Another small point is that Somalia has 3,025 km of coastline compared to Kenya's 536 km, so the difference in fatalities is probably proportional.

[pacifictiger]

56. actually

there was one of the more remote islands where the loss of life was not as bad as everyone had feared. Why? Because of ages old tales and folklore handed down that in essence said if the water recedes suddenly, head for high ground immediately. And they did.

[kath]

3. Has anyone been able to access the rest of this article??

It says continued on Page 8, but I can't find any way to get to it...

[cyn2]

19. you and me both...

I tried everything including printer friendly version and emailing it to myself, but unable to find the rest of the story.

It's yesterday's paper (it's 1/2 in AU now), but I don't know how to access it.

[Skittles]

4. I'm shcked that people were not aware what a rapidly receding tide means

I KNOW IT and I've never lived anywhere near the water

[demgrrrll]

7. I read that someone thinks that explosions undersea around Australia

where they were supposedly looking for oil may have contributed to this disaster. As a disclaimer I know nothing about exploring for oil undersea or if this story has any credibility at all. It would be interesting to see if they are actually looking for oil in this manner.

[Psephos]

15. Not a chance

The earthquake was caused by the release of energy built up by friction between major crustal plates moving past each other at about the same speed as your fingernails grow. The quake released, in very rough numbers, the same energy as about 200 billion tons of dynamite. (Or 200 1-megaton hydrogen bombs all blowing up at the same moment, if you want to be more graphic.)

Oil exploration uses small explosive charges (usually a few ounces at most, never more than a few pounds) to generate sonic waves, which then bounce off deep buried layers of rock to create a sonar picture of the underlying geological formations. The process is harmless to the seafloor and rocks; for example, a large ship passing overhead generates more total sonic energy. To believe that exploration charges set off earthquakes would be to believe that ships cause them, too, just by tooling around the oceans.

Humankind does not have the ability to "ignite" earthquakes with explosives. It would be like trying to blow a hole in a cinderblock garage with a firecracker (or even much less).

This region of plate friction has reliably thrown off major earthquakes for hundreds of thousands of years. The last time was about 200 years ago. Tension had been building up since then...and was released, just the same way an overstretched rubber band suddenly snaps. It will happen again, sometime in the century or two.

[CoffeeCat]

26. Thanks for that, Psephos...

That was very informative and interesting.

Are you a geologist, a seismologist...or some kind of ologist? :)

I've been reading about earthquakes since I was 8. I found out that I was born the day of the worst earthquake in North American history.

I've been hooked ever since.

[Psephos]

62. So you were born on March 27, 1964?

Cool. :-)

I'm not an "ologist," just an interested amateur, quite hooked on geology and plate tectonics. If you want a real treat, read John McPhee's Annals of the Former World. It's a single-volume compilation of his three great geological explorations of North America (including my favorite, Assembling California).

McPhee is the single best nonfiction writer in America, in my opinion. In this trilogy, he weaves an incisive cultural geology through the physical geology, revealing deep connections between people and the unseen world underneath their feet. You start to appreciate how North American geology has influenced North American values and spirit. No one does it better...no one else even does it at all.

[Wilms]

43. Please don't make me google, but there is another technique.

"Air Guns" that generate between 160-200db. A jet is like 120db and that scale is logarithmic (so ear plugs won't help :-( ).

And why can't a concussion be the straw that breaks the camels back?

[NickB79]

45. If that's all it took to set it off

Then this fault would have simply gone off a few days later than it did, maybe only a few hours later. Even assuming that the charges did set it off (and I in no way believe that), the massive amounts of energy in the fault had been building for millenia. Since the tectonic plates are always moving regardless of human activity, the earthquake would have occurred eventually, and with as much warning as we had with this one (none). In fact, if the plates were given more time to build up energy, the earthquake and resulting tsunami would have been even greater than what we saw on Sunday. Releasing the energy now would be far preferable to releasing even more energy 10 yrs from now. Given a few more years of buildup, there could have been twice as many dead from an even larger tsunami.

[Wilms]

46. All good points, Nick.

Though it still would be neat to see the Ring of Fire's seismic record vs. the rock concert schedule.

On Edit: Uh-oh, late breaking... :scared:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2893628>

[uncle ray]

50. using that same logic

IF that is what "helped" this earthquake out, then it's likely that SOMEONE knew that it could help cause earthquakes, and hide this information, instead of helping the warning systems work to their full advantage. you've heard none of the reports of warnings being lost in various beauracracies in the hour or so between the quake and tsunami?

other theories are that oil in the ground might help to lubricate the faults, so when we take the oil out, and there's no lube, the earthquake s may be fewer, but larger because of the greater energy built up between release.

there's lots of "what if's". what if there had been no earthquake now, and in the meantime a proper warning system was developed, saving the lives of the victims of your future quake ten years from now?

hey we're all gonna die eventually, why worry about why?

oh, and i think you're using "would" many places you should be using "could". i'd have less a problem with your arguement if you didn't try to make your supposition sound factual.

[NickB79]

53. There is quite a bit of supposition in your post as well

I never implied someone did this intentionally knowing that a massive earthquake and tsunami would result from it. I meant to imply that, IF we could cause an earthquake, this was an inadvertent effect, not set out to activate this fault line. I do not believe any conspiracy theories about using earthquakes as weapons of mass destruction or other nonsense such as that.

There is very little support for the hypothesis that oil can lubricate fault lines among geologists, as the enormous size of many faults would require impossible amounts of oil between them. We're talking about continent-sized pieces of Earth's crust here, not a car engine. The total volume of oil we've extracted from the Earth, while massive to us, is nothing more than a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to the planet's overall volume. Besides, water is far, far more common in the crust than oil, and can function just as well as a lubricant under those conditions. Oil is just not that big of a player to moderate the effects of moving plates significantly.

You say they could have used an additional ten years to set up a warning system. Was there any work on a warning system going on in the effected countries when the wave hit? I haven't read of any. I do know that there was one for the Pacific Ocean, but several countries that were effected had not signed on to it. I doubt there would have been some massive rush to develop any such system over the next decade without any tsunamis triggering a need for one. Remember, the current Pacific tsunami detection system was only established after the 1964 tsunami that hit California. Before then, we never had one either, and it took the loss of many lives to prompt us to build one. Most people seem to have a "it can never happen to us" attitude, until something does happen to them. We force ourselves to learn things the hard way most of the time, it seems.

The reason I use the word "would" often is that earthquakes WILL happen, especially in the Ring of Fire this one occurred in. It is a very geologically active area that has seen numerous earthquakes and volcanic eruptions in the past, and I see no reason why more shouldn't occur in the future. In what other way can all that pent-up energy between those two fault lines be released with anything other than a massive earthquake? They are moving continuously, and that energy was building up on a daily basis.

[evolvenow]

34. Here is the article...Earthquake: Coincidence or a Corporate Oil Tragedy?

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=10211&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

December 28, 2004
Earthquake: Coincidence or a Corporate Oil Tragedy? - Independent Media TV - Article - 2004-12-28
The Oil industry has been doing a great deal of seismic tests near Tasmania, Australia and there have been whale beachings, and recent earthquakes in the region. There was a magnitude 8.1 earthquake near Tasmania, Australia 2 days before the 9.0 Earthquake in Indonesia. Coincidently, the Australian tectonic plate intersects with the Indian tectonic plate at the exact point of the 9.0 earthquake which has killed tens of thousands of people.

(more)

Seismic Testing/Massive Beachings...very Disturbing

http://www.acfonline.org.au/asp/pages/document.asp?IdDoc=581

04 November 2001

 
SEISMIC TESTING AT SEA

Ocean based seismic testing is not the innocuous tapping on the ocean floor that many in government and the oil industry would like us to believe. It is extremely loud. Sound is communication, navigation, echo location, food finder and defence system for many marine creatures. Any damage could be fatal. Despite this, seismic testing is virtually unregulated.

HOW DOES SEISMIC TESTING WORK ?

The test uses 'air guns' to fire compressed air at the ocean floor. This high energy 'pulse' (explosion) sends shock waves through the water and the rock layers beneath the ocean floor. These are then reflected from different layers, at various intervals, back through the rock and water; to be recorded in hydrophones towed behind the vessel. These recordings are then mapped, giving a picture of what geology lies beneath the vessel, commonly at depths of 10 Km1.

Seismic testing does not actually show whether oil or gas exists in a place. It identifies the right geological formation where oil or gas could be. Only test drilling reveals the presence of oil or gas.

* Underwater 'air guns' operate at 2000 psi expelling a volume of air of 4000cui2.
* Shots are fired every few seconds, from 10 metres below the surface3, 24 hours a day, weather permitting.
* At the source, pulses are between 220 - 240 decibels (dB). 4
* Sound levels reduce to 170 - 180 dB within 1Km of the source and approximately 150 dB within 10 Km. 5
* A Jet engine close up - 160 dB, screaming into a microphone - 140 dB, Human pain threshold - 130dB.
* Several kilometres of Hydrophone arrays on multiple cables, used to pick returning sound pulses, are towed behind the seismic vessel.6


WHALES AND SEISMIC

* "Seismic operations will be regarded as being likely to have a significant impact on a cetacean species… where the seismic operation is to be carried out in, or within 20 kilometers of, a feeding, breeding or resting area… and in or near migratory paths" according to Environment Australia guidelines. 7
* "Evidence to date indicates that sounds over approximately 140dB in feeding, breeding and resting areas may be considered likely to significantly disturb whales" - Environment Australia guidelines. 8
* Sounds of over 150 dB may significantly disturb migrating whales 9
* Sperm whales killed in the Bahamas and Greece had had their auditory (hearing) faculties 'blown up', after coming into contact with a sonar blast (akin to a seismic shot) from naval vessels. 10
* Environment Australia's guidelines recommend that seismic testing only need to be suspended when whales are seen within 3 Km of the testing vessel11. This is clearly insufficient when considering the information above and is not consistent with the application of the precautionary approach as required in the EPBC Act.


FISH

* Shockwaves reverberating through the water, destroy fish bladders, harm nearby larvae, and disrupt traditional migratory paths of marine mammals and fish 12
* Norwegian study sponsored by the petroleum industry revealed that catch rates of Haddock and Cod are reduced by at least 50% during and after seismic testing. Similar figures were recorded for redfish off California 13
* Environment Australia has no guidelines regarding the conduct of seismic testing and the protection of marine biodiversity.


CONCLUSION

Given its very intrusive and deafening nature, if seismic testing were conducted on land it would attract considerable attention from planning bodies and be subject to strict regulatory controls.

At sea, this work is only guided by departmental policy guidelines (not regulations) in spite of emerging evidence that it is considerably more damaging to marine biodiversity than previously thought. When oil and gas exploration companies agree to meet the guidelines, seismic testing avoids most Commonwealth environmental controls and assessment procedures.

WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN?

* An immediate moratorium on all current testing until its impact on marine biodiversity can be more accurately assessed.
* Seismic testing be listed as a designated controlled action under s.25A of the EPBC Act.
* Mandatory, enforceable regulatory controls using scientifically based standards and benchmarks prioritising protection of biodiversity must replace policy guidelines and ministerial discretion.
* Introduction of general oceans legislation requiring the integration of approval procedures of different government bodies for all ocean uses, implementing ecosystem based management, under the direction of a statutory Oceans Authority.


WHAT YOU CAN DO

Make the above happen, call your local member and write, call or fax the Environment Minister. Environment Minister, Parliament House, Canberra 2600 PH: 02 6277 7640 FAX: [phone]

Write to oil companies expressing your disapproval of these testing programs.

References

1. Seismic surveys and humpback whales (March 1997) e+p magazine, Australian Petroleum Production &Exploration Association publication, Australia, p1
2. ibid
3. Referral Form 2001/140 - EPBC, Environment Australia by Esso Australia Pty Ltd
4. ibid
5. Referral Form 2001/107 - EPBC, Environment Australia by Strike Oil
6. Referral Form 2001/140 - EPBC, Environment Australia by Esso Australia Pty Ltd
7. Guidelines on the Application of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act to interactions between offshore seismic operations and larger cetaceans, Environment Australia, 2001, p2 (noting there are no such guidelines for finfish and these are not regulated standards)
8. id at p5
9. ibid
10. Ecosystem: Low Frequency Active Sonar: http://www.eces.org/ec/ecosystems/ifasonar.shtml
11. id at Attachment 6
12. Living Oceans Society - Oil and Gas: http:www.livingoceans.org/oilseismic.htm
13. ibid

------------------------------------------------------------------------

For more information on this article please contact:

Serge Killingbeck - Marine Campaign Coordinator

[Carni]

16. If I were a tourist at the beach esp in a foreign land

I would have had no clue...

I highly doubt that I would have said "Cool I think I will walk towards the ocean and check it out" but I would have had no idea that getting the hell out of the way would have beeen a prudent move.

I would definitely know NOW after all this--but I am surprised that the locals didn't know immediately that something was not right!

[jdj]

22. someone said that all the folks who were wading in knee

deep water were sucked out immediately.

That is so scary. Worse than jaws.

[SharonAnn]

32. Yes, I learned it in Iowa from reading Michener's novell, Hawaii.

That was about 40 years ago.

[Sparkle]

55. I didn't know it.

But I do now and if it ever happens while I'm at a beach, I will run like hell.

[Lorien]

5. This one got it, and saved hundreds of lives

and she was only ten years old. A good education at work!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1114103&mesg_id=1114103

[cliss]

6. The only thing that comes to mind is

when we went to Hawaii as a family. We camped on the leeward side of the island (normally a place where Haulis don't go). We were lucky enough to make friends with the locals on the Leeward side of Oahu.

They taught my kids how to be safe in the water. They taught them to never, ever turn their backs on the waves. They kept re-emphasizing this.

Also, I've read many stories about how lots of people survived the tsunami. In a Swedish newspaper, there are photos of a mother who rushes into the oncoming tidal wave to save her children. I'd say the odds of surviving something like this is going to depend on one's condition: can you run to save your life?

When something like that approaches, it's good to be in reasonable shape so that we can save ourselves.

[Wilms]

8. Once again, Bush Knew.

Well, NOAA, anyhow. And some of the local countries, as well.

No snips, read the whole thing.


<http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO412C.html>

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Every agency that monitors this sort of thing

all had the same lame excuses. They couldn't find anybody, it was a holiday, the resorts were full of tourists....

This event was picked up in OK for crying out loud. With all these groups that monitor this sort of stuff and no one could get on the Internet and look up a phone #?

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. This is how long it took for me

to find a link for the Sri Lanka government

http://www.gov.lk/contact.htm

Exactly one minute.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

17. Yeah, but let's use some common sense here

You are, say the Governor of a state in coastal India. It is Sunday morning. The day after Christmas. Every agency is on minimal staffing. All of a sudden you get a panic-filled call from someone who you have never met, never even talked with from the Indian Foreign Ministry telling you to evacuate the beaches because there is a wave headed for you at 450MPH, and you have, oh, 30 minutes to get it done.
What would you do? Even if they were lucky enough to get a call through all the channels needed to make the call to you.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. The common sense is appreciated...

I'm still wondering who 'every agency that monitors this sort of thing' are. There are no agencies that monitor the Indian Ocean for tsunamis, and as you pointed out it hit on the morning of Boxing Day, when there would probably not just have been minimal staff at work in agencies, but many shut down totally due to the public holiday....

Here's an article on the attempts by those monitoring the Pacific Ocean to warn local authorities of the approaching tsunami (and it's interesting to note that even they originally thought the quake to be of a lesser magnitude than it actually was)...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11824220%5E28737,00.html

Violet...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

47. Well, the US Navy would be one... that is how they were able

to warn Diego Garcia.
The submarine listening system would have picked it up, but it would take a while for them to believe what they were seeing because earthquakes are not part of their world view.

It would appear as a HUGE contact moving at 450MPH underwater. In other words, they would assume an error, and work on getting a better fix on what it was before calling anyone higher.

at least 30min gone

The higher authority would assume the same thing, and tell them to re-do what they had already done

15 min more gone

The higher authority would notifiy National Command Authority in a non-critical message... depending on who was on the desk, and where they were and such (remember Sat night in DC)

10-15 or so minutes

Now, even if that person did know what to do... call the State Department, who would call the Indian or Sri Lankan Embassies (if the desk officer was alert enough to think of it) who would call their government

we now have, what? 30-40 minutes for this to happen before the wave hits?

It ain't easy.

Diego Garcia, having a central command and favorable geography escaped damage.

[daleo]

57. Interesting perspective

I also think the Navy (not just U.S., plenty of other navies in the area would have listening devices) must have had plenty of signal data. As you say, they may not have realized what they had on their hands, and would perhaps not have been set up to do much about it. I think there are valid questions about this that should be aired, though.

I know it a stretch (just reasoning by analogy), but if the Navy couldn't identify the century's greatest earthquake and tsunami, what are the real prospects for ballistic missile defense?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

63. Well, everyone knows that ballistic missile defense is a joke

except for those who are involved in getting funding for it and profiting from it's endless money suck.

But this is, you have to remember, possibly a once-in-a-million-year event... this much crust movement I mean. It will happen again, but not neccessarily on that fault line or even in that part of the world.

The central asian mountain ranges like the Himalayas are the youngest mountain range on the earth, they are still growing. That is the root cause of this earthquake.

You can't train military people to understand events that may only occur once and never again AND still have them do what they are supposed to do, in this case, keep an eye on Thailand's Aircraft Carrier and India's subs in addition to shipping moving into and out of the Indian Ocean.

Hope that helps.

[DoYouEverWonder]

64. Ah, India is a Hindu country

I don't think they celebrate Christmas.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

72. Good point, but there are more countries involved than India

Perhaps my example was flawed, but the premise remians intact.

[rodeodance]

68. cnn--it took only one hour from time of earthquatke to landing of big wave

[DS1]

11. Oh bullshit

Bush didn't know shit, you think someone actually bothered to tell HIM?

[Wilms]

13. You may be right.

Why talk to people on benders. :shrug:

[DS1]

14. I'd just rather see something like "Bush Knew" kept to things

that clearly indicated personal incompetence. Like 9/11.

[Delarage]

58. Yeah.........

They learned after the "Bin Laden determined to Strike in U.S." and the "America is under attack" episodes that alerting him to crises doesn't pay. I don't expect to ever get any useful or honest information from Bush or his cronies.

[daleo]

18. I had wondered about this aspect of the disaster

"It is worth noting that the US Navy was fully aware of the deadly seismic wave, because the Navy was on the Pacific Warning Center's list of contacts. The Military also has its own advanced systems including satellite images, which enables it to monitor in a very precise way the movement of the seismic wave in real time. In other words, in all likelihood the US Military had information on an impending catastrophe."

It goes on to say that the naval base at Diego Garcia was warned.

I imagine the U.S. Navy (and possibly others) knew more than we are hearing about, but didn't warn anybody for fear of revealing "security assets". The oceans are intensely and continuously scrutinized - I just can't believe this quantity of water could be suddenly displaced by an earthquake and no instrument would pick up that fact.

[Violet_Crumble]

25. Don't know about that one...

The oceans are intensely and continuously scrutinized - I just can't believe this quantity of water could be suddenly displaced by an earthquake and no instrument would pick up that fact.

I thought only the Pacific Ocean had an early warning system set up, as it's the ocean that's prone to tsunamis. The Indian Ocean doesn't have the buoys or any way that scientists can tell what's going on. It seems to be that scientists picking up the earthquake relied on the magnitude of the quake to guess what the effect would be. If it had been under a certain magnitude, there could have been either localised tsunamis or nothing, but this one was big enough to produce a tsunami that crossed the Indian Ocean...

Violet...

[daleo]

36. I meant they are intensely scrutinized for military purposes

The instrumentation that the world's militaries use are geared for picking up all kinds of signals in the ocean. I think an event of this magnitude would have been detected by any number of military listening systems:

- Every power wants to know where the other powers' assets are, especially submarines (think nuclear launchpads), so the oceans are constantly monitored, at all sorts of frequencies (e.g. passive sonar).

- All powers are constantly trying to intercept each others' communications, some of which is undersea (cables for example).

- Satellites are on the lookout for signs of nuclear tests or detonations. I recall that the joint Israel/South Africa test of the late 1970's was over the Indian Ocean, and oceanographic evidence was used to determine what had happened.

"The Naval Research Laboratory's 300-page report, the only comprehensive and original government analysis, concluded that there had been a nuclear event near Prince Edward Island or Antarctica.
...
"Soon after the event, underwater hydrophones picked up hydroacoustic (sonar) pulses similar to those known to be caused by nuclear detonations. The Naval Research Laboratory analyzed these signals, concluding that they had traveled on a direct path from a source near Prince Edward Island and were reflected off the Antarctic ice shelf. The intensity of this signal was consistent with that of a small explosion on or slightly beneath the ocean's surface. But the White House panel rejected this study, saying it used non-standard methods of analysis and was incomplete."
http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=nd97albright

- Navies, especially the U.S. Navy have always done a lot of oceanographic research for the sake of understanding phenomena such as underwater temperature gradients, salinity gradients, currents, deep sea structure, etc. They need this basic data in order to interpret signals, and just generally know what is going on in the ocean.

There has always been a lot of overlap between the military and the science of geophysics. Some of the early development in seismic theory was motivated by the desire to pinpoint heavy artillery in the First World War, for example.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Then why do they bother with an early warning system in the Pacific?

I'd imagine it'd be costing a fair bit for the Pacific Rim countries to maintain that specifically for tsunamis. Why don't they just leave it up to the military?

Violet...

[daleo]

41. I suppose the military response would be "it is not our job"

Or that they would risk revealing the location and existence of various secret assets (listening devices, etc.).

I can't say for sure that the military (not just U.S. Navy, others as well) knew something was up, but it would amaze me if they didn't. I hope someone in the media gets around to asking a few pertinent questions, just for the record.

[yinkaafrica]

52. Looks like the US knew and just didn't care

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

54. No, I think it was more of a time factor

See my post above.
Only 90 minutes to disaster does not leave a lot of time to find everyone they would have to call.

[evolvenow]

35. Thank you Wilms, Excellent link. I have been getting flack for saying this

Link gives much validation to what I have been researching and just an awful gut feeling that much of this tragedy could have been prevented, with at least some warning.
Thank you so much.

[zann725]

40. Once again he knew AHEAD of time, and then waited to respond

even AFTER the disaster.

There are also two MAJOR questions additionally raised by the Global Research piece...
1) The noted "over-response" of U.S. Military to this "natural disaster." I had read about the large U.S. Military presence already there, and found it alarming. So that even though it seemed Bush was not offering a large amount of "money" (aid), the U.S. tax dollars being spent for the Military presence now there would seem to be enormous. And with what Global plan in mind?

2) The other thing is the contradiction of the Earthquake's magnitude. Numerous sources said it was an "8"...and then changed it to a "9." Very odd.

And once again, like the huge "delay" in FAA interception of Hijacked airliners on 9/11...here again, there was a huge "delay" in passing along data of upcoming Earthquake? I think there's a lot more here...that's going to end up coming out....or almost coming out, and being suppressed. Troubling indeed.

[Wilms]

42. I noted the author's concern about military.

He says that it was out of line without saying why, so I scrolled him on that point. Planes, helicopters, med facilities, and desalinization sound good.

Having said that. I think a natural disaster is a convenient time to send spooks in.

I'm not a plate tectonician, or whatever, but in past quakes I've always seen the data intially reported as "preliminary" and then revised.

I think they have to gather data from various sites and have a pie fight prior to settling on a number.

[jmcgowanjm]

48. I like the way you think, Wilms n/t

[jmcgowanjm]

49. And, I bet the $350M happened because Japan was giving $500m

eom

[malaise]

67. I too want to know

why serious warnings were not shared around the world. The Australians also knew. Even after it hit Indonesia, why didn't they call other countries in the region to warn them. The only country that put out emergency notices on radio and TV and cleared their beaches was Kenya and only one person died there. I also read that some parts of Somalia took the warnings seriously.

When the dust settles, some serious questions will be asked.

[rodeodance]

71. heard that Thailand did not want to disturb the toursit trade

[dflprincess]

20. See this thread. A 10 year old girl read the ocean signals

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1114103

January 01, 2005

A 10-year-old British schoolgirl saved the lives of hundreds of people in southern Asia by warning them a wall of water was about to strike, after learning about tsunamis in geography class, British media reported today.

Tilly, who has been renamed the "angel of the beach" by the top-selling tabloid The Sun , was holidaying with her family on the Thai island of Phuket when she suddenly grasped what was taking place and alerted her mother.

"Last term Mr Kearney taught us about earthquakes and how they can cause tsunamis," Tilly was quoted as saying by The Sun.

"I was on the beach and the water started to go funny. There were bubbles and the tide went out all of a sudden.

"I recognised what was happening and had a feeling there was going to be a tsunami. I told mummy."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/...

[HeeBGBz]

23. I think the tide "suddenly" going out would be a major red flag

I'm sure the oddity of it was mesmerizing before the defense mechanism kicked in. The "oooh factor" short circuited the fight or flight response.

[slutticus]

27. That may be why so many animals survived.

They don't have an "oooh factor" like we do. They just ran and didn't come back near the beaches.

[2Design]

29. I did not know the water going out was a warning - on the beaches

on the oregon coast are posted signs that a tsunami can happen but there is no mention that I remember of this very obvious warning - now I know

[iamjoy]

59. Nope, It's The "Oooh Factor"

how much time was there from when the tide went out to when the wave hit?

So, you're standing on the beach, picking up shells, maybe walking ankle deep in the water. You feel it pull back. It's just the tide ebbing, you think. Maybe it feels a little strong, like a rip current, so you think you won't go any deeper. But it doesn't come back. You look up, out to sea, and the water is receding. Now that's odd, you're thinking, I've never seen that before. And you're looking at the wet sand that was the ocean bottom. Is this a normal low tide? You wonder. And maybe the sun is in your eyes, so you don't see the approaching monster just yet. You might hear a roar, and isn't it strange how sounds seem amplified. Maybe some animal instinct kicks in and you run or maybe you gather your thoughts quickly, and deduce what this means and run.

Or maybe, by the time it occurs to you to run, the water is already towering over you. Maybe you don't run that fast (it's hard to run on sand, you sink into it). Maybe you run what you think is far enough, and it isn't the water that gets you, not directly, but it moves heavy objects, pushing them against you...

(how far inland did some of these waves come, anyway)?

[Oreegone]

30. Of course they were sucked out to sea

The undercurrent when a wave comes in, on the Oregon coast sucks the sand right out from under your feet. You get out waist deep and you can go down a foot as the tide goes out. Can you imagine the riptide as something that powerful pulls the water from shore a half a mile before it comes on shore? Incredible power no doubt.

It even disturbed wells in Missouri
http://www.columbiatribune.com/2004/Dec/20041231News033.asp

Volcanos begin erupting
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11814736%255E1702,00.html

They could feel the vibrations in Oklahoma
http://www.channeloklahoma.com/news/4030044/detail.html

Moved Sumatru
http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=1&theme=&usrsess=1&id=64216

Made the earth vibrate
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apscience_story.asp?category=1501&slug=Quake%20Explainer

But the indigenous people in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands said that folklore told them that when the earth moves you run to the mountains because their ancestors said the water could come on land. All of the people in the resorts wouldn't be paying that much attention because of TV's Cell Phones etc.

Which reminds me, why the HELL didn't they just put it on CNN???? They would have reached a hell of a lot of people that way.

[iamjoy]

61. Riptides CAN Be Powerful

Several years ago, I was wading in the ocean several years ago. I could feelt ehre were rip currents, so I only went knee deep, thinking that was safe enough. And then a current pulled me over the sandbar (it DID feel like the sand dissolved beneath my feet) and I was in over my head and fighting for my life.

So this was so much more powerful, I could see where people wading knee deep would have been pulled to sea.

[satori]

31. Free Press- US Media Blackout Of 'Massive Government Failings'

Free Press International
Texas

http://www.freepressinternational.com/mainstream_television_blackout_8172a1200034.html

It's been 8 days since the 2004 Sumatra disaster and US mainstream television is near silent on the 'massive government failings' that could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

Early on Sunday morning, powerful computers in a Vienna office building received seismic data on the earthquake that spawned the devastating tsunamis across south Asia - information that might have saved lives in the hours between the quake and the waves hitting the coasts of Sri Lanka, India and several other countries. But the data streaming into the computers of the Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty Organization served no purpose Sunday. The 300 staff are on vacation until Jan. 4.- International Herald Tribune

[rodeodance]

69. I emailed your story to all news org. I could think of!!

[Inland]

70. Well, the Test Ban Treaty monitors aren't into immediate action

A nuclear test is something that might as well be dealt with Monday morning. Unlike a nuclear attack.

[Algorem]

33. the ocean called,told us how short-sighted we are

[Rainscents]

37. Animals knew...

Not one animal died... They knew ahead and warn others by making noise. I heard this on PBS last night.

[iamjoy]

60. We've Devolved...

In that way, all of our deductive reasoning, we have tuned out instinct...

[Algorem]

65. Elephant story:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3145501a4560,00.html

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

44. link for initial story---I just accessed it fine

"http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11824548%5E2703,00.html"

[tblue37]

51. Yes, but can you access

the continuation of the story on page 8?

[rodeodance]

66. i could not get p. 8 either. I even emailed it to myself and only 1 page

came.

[Andromeda]

73. After hours and hours of watching...

The Science channel, National Geographic, Discovery and others I knew about the phenomenum of the receding waves right before the rushing wall of water swallowing everything in its path.

I've never personally experienced this but I would think most people, especially living near the coast, would be aware of the potential of this kind of disaster.

If I never saw anything like this, it would be too soon.