Chinese-Made Cars to Be Sold in U.S.

[ckramer]

DETROIT (AP) -- The man who brought the Yugo and Subaru to this country has a new project -- becoming the first mass importer of low-cost Chinese-made cars.

Chery Automobile Co., owned by the Chinese government, has signed a deal with auto entrepreneur Malcolm Bricklin and his privately held Visionary Vehicles LLC of New York to sell Chery's cars in United States, Visionary announced Sunday.

The companies aim to sell 250,000 vehicles in five models in their first year, 2007, with the goal of selling 1 million units of eight to 10 models by 2012, Visionary Vehicles chief of staff Paul Lambert said Sunday.

Lambert said the company will aim at selling vehicles well below the price of models now available while matching the quality of Japanese carmakers.

"America doesn't need another car company unless we can do it at 30 percent below market with quality and styling," Lambert said. "We've got to have a Toyota-Lexus-like quality."

The vehicles will carry 10-year, 100,000-mile warranties, Visionary said. No brand name has been selected. Visionary will invest $200 million in new Chery products for the U.S. market.

ap

[daleo]

1. I figured this would happen sooner or later

With cheap labor, there is no reason why these Chinese cars couldn't come in under $5000. If so, say so long to a lot of the U.S. and Canadian car industry. I am just guessing with that number, but look at what has happened in other industries.

I don't know who will be able to afford them, though, if the North American working and middle class is left to be clobbered by these free trade practices.

[n2mark]

2. Hope their car is better

than the Yugo. I've not heard positive about the Subaru from mechanics either.

[DavidDvorkin]

14. Subarus are good cars.

We've owned a few of them. They're wildly popular here in Colorado.

[AmerDem]

24. Subaru's are very good cars

It's very common to see Subaru models with 200,000 to 300,000 miles. I know many mechanics who consider Subaru's a great economical car for a middle class person. Lord knows I've worked on enough of them over the years.

[William Bloode]

65. Subies are awesome!

Best damn car ever in the snow! I have a 84 wagon with well over 200,000 with nothing ever done to it except normal maintenance, 1 set of c.v. joints and a clutch <<<< 20yrs and only $500 in work ever done to it.

I now own an Outback and expect the same from her. So far so good, we've had her now for 6yrs, and no work other than normal maintenance(oil changes etc.)

[SemperEadem]

75. I've heard nothing but good things from folks who've owned them

[catzies]

3. Where are they going to sell them? Wal Mart?

Sheesh.

[tridim]

7. I'll bet you 10 wal-mart bux you're right

The Wal Mart CEO's are probably having wet dreams tonight.

[Vanje]

8. Thats a promise!

They can call them 'Walcarts'. Or 'Samsride'

[durablend]

15. Walmobile?

:shrug:

[TexasChick]

27. LOL! n/t

[trogdor]

41. Naah. Regular dealers will get them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they wound up carrying U.S. brand names like Chevrolet. The problem with somebody like Wal*Mart doing something like this is that then they would have to have a full service department, parts department, loan department, and so on.

Wal*Mart doesn't do durable goods as well as they do disposable items like DVD players that sell for thirty bucks, and you can't make a disposable item that sells for ten grand. Wal*Mart doesn't sell things like large appliances, plasma TV sets, or high-end stereo equipment for this reason.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

48. Maybe at Sam's Club

So you can buy an economy pack of 10 at even more savings!

[The Zanti Regent]

4. 3rd Strike for Bricklin?

I still remember Bricklin pushing his Wankel-powered car in the early 70s.

Then there was that Subaru "problem"...

Then there was the Yugo, surely in a class by itself...

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/bv/bricklin.htm

Maybe this is his 4th strike...

[AndrewJacksonFaction]

6. Don't forget the Bricklin car itself.

http://bricklin.org/History.htm

[Stinky The Clown]

10. The Bricklin have been perfect if it was competing with pre-1960's

British sports cars like the tractor-engined Triumph TR3 or the Austin Healey 100-4. Even Lucas electrics would have been an improvement on the Bricklin.

[Lost4words]

36. You have got to be kidding right?

bricklins were shoddy heavy ugly pieces of plastic junk. It took over a minute for the gull wing doors to open electrically, too heavy to open manually. And if you were in a rain storm forget it.

I'll take any British sports car over that junk.

PS I have had 3 Brits for all their problems of their day they were a blast to drive, 100 times more of what a sports car should be The bricklin was sold as a safety vehicle.

[Stinky The Clown]

44. I've owned Brit sports cars since the 60s and still have one

I still own a 59 AH Bug Eye Sprite. Over the years I've had many others, from that lowly Sprite (my very first true sports car) all the way up to a Jag E-type roadster.

They were all shit cars, but as you say a true blast to drive.

I could regale you for hours with stories of how much they're shit.

Like the time my Sprite blew an axle while in the driveway! Like the time the big Healey's generator caught fire. Like the time the TR4's roll up windows failed. Like the MGTF's persistent Chinese water torture of the canvas top leak that dripped water directly onto the driver's groin when underway. The list is endless ......

And don't get me started on Italian cars. (I'm Italian, but the old saying is true) "Give an Italian a piece of metal and he'll do something foolish with it .... like build a car.

But these cars had lives and souls and wonderfully anachronistic, idiosyncratic personalities. I wouldn't trade my time in them for all the Lexuses on the road.

[Lost4words]

85. same here Husb2Sparkly!

After many problems with my '67 MGB, bought it used, I bought a new 1972 Midget thinking there wouldnt be problems with a new MG. the first day I had it there was a puddle of gear box oil on the driveway. The transmission casing had a casting defect or a hole the size of a pencil lead so back to the dealer for two weeks. The good news was the salesman felt so bad he gave me his demo MGB-GT for the duration. The day I drove it back to pick up my Midget the GT's clutch hydrolics went out.

My midget was the most fun you could ever have with 60 horsepower! I loved it.

PS have also had an Alfa Berlina and two Fiat Dinos, had to sell the Spider but still have the coupe, so I know what you mean.

I'll leave off my Jensen Healy stories.

Always wanted a Jag E Type.

Cheers Husb2Sparkly! :toast:

[Carl Brennan]

89. kick

[Benhurst]

5. I wonder what sort of trade-in they'll give me on my

1986 Buick Century? :party: Life is GREAT in BushAmerica!

[jmowreader]

9. Parts availability will make or break them

If Visionary has a series of parts distribution centers strategically located throughout the country so you can get a part you need within a day's time, they'll do okay with this. OTOH, if they build one parts DC in Watertown, New York, and expect to service the entire country from it, this venture will fail within a year's time.

I agree with the posters who thought Wal-Mart would sell these. There are probably 20 million rednecks in this country who would love to buy a car at Wal-Mart--why not? They buy everything else there.

[trogdor]

56. Watertown, New York?

Fort Drum 10th Mountain Division 1993-1997. Been there, done that. Don't want to do it again. Too damned cold. I'm near Utica now, and that's a vast improvement.

Anyhoo, see my previous post about why I think Wal*Mart won't sell cars, at least, not at Wal*Mart stores. They'd have to start a whole other chain of stores for that, like Sam's Club, because there's lots more involved in selling cars than there is selling tires.

[jmowreader]

82. What unit were you in?

I was in the 110th MI Battalion from 1992 to 1994--in a low-level voice intercept platoon from 92 to 93 and in the battalion Technical Control and Analysis Element from 93 to 94.

Did you ever see the infamous 10th Humanitarian Division application? I did that.

[mcscajun]

86. And when they drive away from Wal-Mart

You'll see the "Buy American" sticker on the rear bumper.

[robcon]

11. This is good news

More competition is better. I think it will take the Chinese a decade to catch up with the world in quality and design - but I expect they will be a leader in car-making soon.

[Divine Discontent]

12. I buy everything at WalMart

because I cannot afford to purchase items elsewhere. The Bush Administration has destroyed the economy for the working class man (if you're working class, you understand), and the prices for items are way too high elsewhere (other than WalMart). I hate going there, but I'm not wealthy enough to shop at Macy's, let alone Sears.

I would not buy a Chinese car, no matter how low it cost, because they are a human rights violator. It'd be like buying a car from Falwell Motors, ICK.

"We've got to have a Toyota-Lexus-like quality." ------ Well, whatchoo-gotta-have-n-whatchoo-gonna-get are two FAR different things. Their cars will blow, imo, for the 1st 10 years, like Hyundai.

[Rose Siding]

16. Walmart sells Chinese products

Are human rights violations acceptable for some products but not for others?

[trogdor]

59. Unfortunately, for lots of stuff, you have little choice.

Take bicycles, for instance. Find one that isn't made in China. It's hard. When you sell 27-speed mountain bikes for $239 at Wal*Mart, it's flat-out impossible for Americans to compete, except for exotic racing bikes and such, and the Italians and French kick our ass in that market segment. So you see stickers on the bikes that say, "Designed in USA (Made in China)". It makes me want to :puke:.

And yes, there are lots of people who shop at Wal*Mart because they can't afford to go anywhere else, or can't period. I'm sure it pisses them off, but that's the way it is.

Finally, to get back on topic, I predict the Chinese cars will suck for at least 15 years, but people will buy them because they're cheap and will probably run as long as the payment book does. Within four to six years, you will see Chinese cars with Ford and Chevy nameplates on them. The only thing Detroit will still make will be the high profit margin luxury class cars - lower volume, higher profit, fewer but highly-trained (and non-union) workers.

Sucks, don't it?

[ckramer]

20. Hyundai's quality is better than most American cars

[Rufus T. Firefly]

49. Not if you have a '95 Elantra.

Don't get me started. Lousy paint job (I've seen the same deteriorating paint in the same places on other '95s). New automatic transmission after about 60,000 miles (Mitsubishi tranny - they didn't even make their own). Power window motors going bad. Etc.

[chenGOD]

52. Didn't you have the 10year/100,000mile warranty?

I thought that was standard fare on Hyundais?

[DainBramaged]

58. Powertrain only warranty

Most folks don't understand the 10 year-100,000 mile warranty ONLY covers the powertrain, and even then they bust balls over maintainance schedules. Besides, does anyone honestly keep a new car for 10 years? 100,000 miles is easy (I have a car that did it in 4 years) but 10 years?

[arikara]

72. I still have my 86 Sunbird

that I bought new in Feb 87. I've been driving it for 18 years. Now that I'm not working, hope it lasts another 18...

[ckramer]

83. I am still driving my 93 Hyundai with a John Kerry for president sticker

It's a standard shift. So far the engine runs fine with 70,000 miles. You are right, the paint job sucks. But it always starts in the morning, no matter how cold outside. 30 miles per gallon city. Man, I bet I can drive it for another 10 years if I want to.

[DainBramaged]

60. Prove it

I have first-hand experience with friends who fell victim to Hyundai quality.

[DainBramaged]

61. Here's an article you should read.

You stated "Hyundai's quality is better than most American cars".

If a manufacturer LIES about their cars can you trust their quality?

Hyundai Offers $85 Million to Settle Horsepower Suit

http://consumeraffairs.com/news04/hyundai_settlement.html

<snip>
May 22, 2004
Hyundai is offering to pay more than $85 million to settle a class-action lawsuit that was filed after the Korean automaker overstated the horsepower of Hyundai and Kia cars exported to the U.S.

Plaintiffs in the suit are roughly 840,000 consumers who bought 1996 to 2002 model year vehicles. Hyundai has admitted overstating engine power by as much as 10%. Company officials say it was an oversight, that they miscalculated the effect of U.S. anti-pollution devices.

The company blamed the misstatements -- which affected nearly half the cars in sold in the U.S. from the mid-1980s until late 2002 -- on "mistakes and disorganization" within Hyundai.


The miscalculations affected about 1.3 million cars, of which 400,000 were misstated by more than 4 percent. The company estimates that the average misstatement among all 1.3 million vehicles was 4.6 horsepower.

<snip>

"mistakes and disorganization" within Hyundai, what a joke.

[snooper2]

71. You have to be joking?

you know what a disposable car is correct?

[chenGOD]

47. China is a human rights violator, but wal-mart isn't?

Ummm yeah....ok....

[DainBramaged]

55. Buy at Target instead of WalFart

Buying at WalFart is the same as contributing to the Thuglies.

[RC]

13. Not really

This will help put our own home grown car industry out of business. Many 10's of thousands more people out of work.

[durablend]

17. And it's a GA-RON-TEE they'll make em disposable!

The powertrain may have a 100,000 mile warranty but the rest of it will either rust out or fall apart long before then.

No way Wal-Mart would have it any other way.

[Disturbed]

18. Good news?

Hell no!!!

Just as Reagon sold us out to Japan, this Admin. is selling us out to China.

[Xithras]

25. Catch up? They already have.

They may be new to the US, but they are already an established asian brand and move over a hundred thousand cars a year in over a dozen different models. This isn't some new Chinese upstart looking to break into America's market, it's an established major manufacturer (fully owned by the communist government, btw) looking to move into foreign markets and eliminate domestic competition.

The American automotive industry is dead. You cannot compete with slave labor.

[DainBramaged]

57. More competition is better?

You really think the car market is lacking competition? You think the market isn't diluted enough? Go buy a TRUE rice burner, than break down in the hinterlands and see if you can get parts or get it fixed.

By the way, do you even own a car?

[qwertyMike]

19. Here we go (again)

I'm old enough to remember the late '60's when 95% of cars here were US made. The Beetle was the most predominant foreign car.
Now it's less than 50%. Talk to an auto worker.

Autos used to drive the economy . . .

It all became apparent when the Chinese won all those medals at last year's Olympics. That's always the sign :)

China now holds a good chunk of the US debt and is using it to buy minerals and oilfields. I hear they are interested in leasing the Alberta Tar sands. . . .

Ahhhhh Sooooo

[SweetLeftFoot]

37. Well

It all became apparent when the Chinese won all those medals at last year's Olympics.

Given that we Aussies actually came fourth in the medla tally, despite having a population of only 20 mil, you can expect us to dominate the world soon enough.

That said, if you watch TV or movies (usually on a channel owned by that good Aussie Rupert) you'll see Aussie actors everywhere. Its starting!

[tsuki]

38. There is nothing good about Aussie Rupert. You can have him

back and tell him to take mAnn Coulter with him.

[SweetLeftFoot]

40. I was being rather sarcastic

and anyway - he's a Yank now too!

That said, he did give the world The Simpsons ... surely that cancels out some of the damage?

[qwertyMike]

42. Forgot the (sarcasm-joke) tag

Hey don't forget the Irish - not many medals, but actors galore. Course our population's only 5 million and WE tok over the world years ago - just nobody noticed.

G'day Bruce :)
Happy New Year in OZ

[SweetLeftFoot]

84. Yeah

- forgot I was dealing largely with Yanks. Even the best of them need sarcasm spelt out in big letters.

BTW - I heard in snowed in Dublin for Xmas. Slainte!

[qwertyMike]

87. Belfast too

My home town.
Happens every 20 years.
1964,1984 2004

Nostradamus

[w4rma]

21. Maybe I should start learning Chinese. (nt)

[David__77]

22. I hope it does well.

I wish only the best for the economic vitality of China. The more development, the more peace. It can truly serve as a bulwark against hegemony in Asia.

[Redstone]

63. I'm not sure what to think

David_77 said: "I wish only the best for the economic vitality of China. The more development, the more peace. It can truly serve as a bulwark against hegemony in Asia."

Well, there is the argument that it's almost impossible for any country to have a functioning democracy without a large middle class, and therefore, whatever builds the Chinese economy to the point where there's a strong middle class, gives them a boost toward becoming more democratic.

It also seems to be true that a strong middle class and economy are prerequisites for a country to start being aware of the necessity for environmental protection, and doing something about it.

There's also the fact that countries tend to be less likely to start wars against other countries with whom they do business.

All reasons to view this as a positive development for China and its relationship with the rest of the world.

But it's just too bad that the opposite (on all three counts) is happening here in America. Sigh.

Redstone

[Psephos]

74. Chinese labor conditions and pay are abysmal

Which is why the Chinese can often undercut the prices of goods made in Western countries.

The net effect of this is that Western jobs disappear as they are converted into lower-wage Chinese jobs.

I'm not saying this is good or bad (although I have my strong opinions), I'm simply pointing out that in the long run it's nearly impossible to retain manufacturing vitality and investment when labor costs are dramatically lower in competing nations. Certainly, Western countries have big pools of experienced labor and high productivity, both of which help make up the difference, but readily-purchased technology (robots, computers, NC machinery, process control, etc.) tends to erode those advantages, too.

[ckramer]

23. Have we thought about this - American factories make expensive junks?

Junk means low-quality; expensive means over-priced. Is that characterization fair?

[BiggJawn]

26. Fair? No. Trendy? Oh, sure...

You must be one a' them there "Brain Workers", smarter than those lazy overpaid oafs who get their hands dirty for a living.

Yeah, go ahead and rag the American worker. But it ain't just the factories. Where have all the engineering and IT sector jobs gone, too? Hmmmm?

[w4rma]

29. accounting, also (nt)

[onager]

28. Ironic history lessons...

1. Back in 1946, Henry Ford II was offered a whole car factory absolutely free. All he had to do was repair the damage caused by WWII.

Ford took one look at the car being produced in the factory and said: "Americans will never buy that little shit-box."

That was the Volkswagen plant in Wolfsburg, Germany and the car was the Beetle.

By 1958, Americans were buying several hundred thousand Beetles a year. Also in 1958, Ford introduced a can't-miss car, after spending over a billion dollars on its development. That was the Edsel.

2. In the late Sixties, famous car developer and racing driver Carroll Shelby was offered a new car dealership at a very reasonable price. The car manufacturer wanted Shelby's name on the door.

Shelby called his good buddy Lee Iacocca at Ford for advice.

"It will be the worst mistake you ever made," Iacocca laughed. "We're going to blow them right back across the ocean."

The dealership was for Toyota. Shelby later estimated that Iacocca's advice cost him at least $10 million.

[tsuki]

39. American factories or American companies?

For years, I used vehicles in my business from American companies until I found out that the factories were not in the US.

Now, we use vehicles from foreign companies with factories in the US. All the vehicles are assembled here from parts from Japan, Canada and the US. The vehicles are outstanding.

I am more than pleased with the American factory that produced my vehicles. They are performing better with less maintenance than the vehicles that I have used in the past. There is a great maintenance package with them. In the long run, the amortization will make the vehicles cost less than my previous. And I resent American factories make expensive junks.

The workers are paid a living wage with benefits. Of course they cost more than Chinese vehicles will. But I won't be trading down.

[reprobate]

30. I know Malcolm Bricklin. Grew up with him. Fathers were business partners

The one thing that you can count on is that the only one to make money on any venture he's involved in is Malcolm Bricklin.

Of course, that's just my opinion and based only on my personal experience with the man.

In my opinion there are people that would rather climb a tree to tell a lie than stand on the ground and tell the truth.

Of course, if Malcolm screws the chinese govt too, concrete snowshoes might be in his future.

I wish them luck.

They'll need it with the leadership of this venture.

[Neshanic]

31. Name the Chinese car. The Tianamen, The Maoster, The Bentonville.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. The Mao-ie Wowie, The Tibet Invader, and for their SUV line

The Tienamen Trampler

[MADem]

35. Or the BushMaster....n/t

[bunkerbuster1]

67. The Trampler! Perfect.

Now if some Merkin car company would have the balls to put out a Bin Laden edition gas-guzzler.

You think I jest? Jeez, we already have an SUV named after a blow job, what's the diff?

[lovuian]

32. They are going after Tyota & Honda

They need cars for themselves!!! They have a HUGE MARKET and they don't plan on being as dumb as Americans and let US goods be sold there!!!

[Art_from_Ark]

33. Good luck catching up with Toyota and Honda

Probably the only way they'll be able to do that is steal their technology.
Which is probably what they'll do, given that a manufacturer I know here in Japan is preparing to sue some Chinese companies for copyright and patent infringement.

[qwertyMike]

43. Oh the irony

------>"a manufacturer I know here in Japan is preparing to sue some Chinese companies for copyright and patent infringement."

[chenGOD]

50. That manufacturer is living in a fantasy land...

Chinese government does not recognize international copyrights or patents.
They'll make some symbolic announcements, arrest a few people, and infringement of copyright and patents will continue unabated for at least the next decade.

[Massachusetts]

45. From

Recycled Fords, Chevys, Buicks and Durangos!

[Flammable Materials]

46. I will make a prediction:

The release of this car within the United States will coincide with Wal-Mart's foray into the new car dealership business.

[Massachusetts]

51. Praise Gee Sus

O8)

[Ernesto]

53. Just wait till ya see

The Boeing aircraft knock-offs that are surely coming down the pipe.
The seeds have already been sown by the outsourcing of wing components for short term profits.
So much for "national security".

[DainBramaged]

54. Does anyone think that they will be better than KIA?

KIA, consistently low-rated in crash worthiness, lousy quality overall, and worthless once they leave the showroom floor. Just another way to dilute the car market further. Of course, people will buy them because they are cheap, but in the big picture, our shores will be flooded with this crap, subsidized by the Chinese government to undermine our economy.

But the Thuglies will rave about free trade, and the minions will buy them like the lemmings they are.

[trogdor]

62. South Korea - Pop. 45 million

China - Pop. 1.2 billion

I say the same thing about South Korea that I do about Mexico. I do not see a siginificant economic threat from South Korea. They can't eat our auto industry. China can swallow it whole.

Besides, wages have been going steadily upward in South Korea for decades. Do you see the same thing happening in China? I don't.

[chenGOD]

64. You seem to have a real problem with Korean cars...

I live in South Korea, and to be honest, the latest models are about the same quality as most other modern cars. Lots of their bodies are based on Japanese bodies, and the quality of the interiors is no worse than you'd find on any mid-level car in North America.
The newer Kias and Daewoos especially have improved. Unfortunately, South Korea tends not to export their better models to North America/Europe...

[BraveDave]

66. I'll stick to Fords.

Since I help build them.
:thumbsup:

[KansDem]

68. Yay!!! I own a Ford!

1996 Taurus...my wife drives that car.

I drive my "trusty" 1965 Chevelle...

(Photo not of my car. My Chevy is not much to look at, although it runs well most of the time. I'm thinking of having a bumper sticker printed that reads "The car may be old, but the rust is new."

[BraveDave]

69. I bought the wife

A 2005 Ford Escape XLT Sport for Xmas.

[KansDem]

70. Santa must have a pretty big sleigh...

;)

[Solon]

73. Don't laugh at Wal Mart Possibly selling cars...

They Own a bank or two in Arkansas already, they are trying to buy the Second largest shipping company in the world, and I would not be surprised if they actually decided to enter the car dealership market. The only thing is that I bet you dollars to donuts that it will not have the Wal Mart brand attached, it will be invisible to us to a large extent, on the outside, it will be another brand. Prepare to see some new dealerships go up near Wal Marts in the future, and don't be surprised to find out they are owned by Wal Mart as well. This isn't a conspiracy to take over the world, this is a business plan.

[Rainscents]

76. Boeing will...

go out of aircraft business as soon as Chines make commercial aircraft... I cannot blame this on China. I blame Corporate America for offloading our work for short term gain. LOOK, what's happening now??? China is now, taking over because we had given them the sensitive Tech and Blue prints!

I refuse to step foot into Wal Mart and I will NEVER buy products made from China!!!

[Solon]

78. Yep, Corporate America and our stupid ass Free Trade agreements...

I still don't understand why people think this is a good thing, when the only jobs that replace the higher wage manufacturing and tech jobs are 7 dollar an hour service jobs. Its sickening how this is happening.

[Bono71]

79. Do we have a free trade agreement with China? n/t

[Solon]

80. Yes we do...

Clinton signed it in the mid 90s I believe, one of his more egregious acts, along with NAFTA and welfare reform.

[Rainscents]

81. Yes we do now!

Fair trade became free trade under BUSHES! I cannot believe, before the election... Right wing talked about family value and abortion issue. Well, China is baggiest abortion country in the world and here we are... Christan Rights are supporting China!!!!!!!!! What a bunch of HYPOCRISY'S!!!

[Ernesto]

88. Hi Rainscents

Don't forget "national security". How long before China's air force will be flying their own new planes loaded with Boeing technology?

[napi21]

77. Sounds like a Kia clone to me. I wouldn't own one of them either.

When they first started selling the Kia, I thought about buying one as a throw away car. 10 years/100,000 mi. then toss it. Then I started reading consumer's report articles, and others. Yes, they have a great warranty, but the mechanics don't know howw to fix them when they have a problem. If they needed a part, it usually wasn't in stock. What good is a warranty like that?

I wouldn't be surprised if this new Chinese car doesn't fall into the same category.

[DS1]

90. Late night comedians are going to aw-rover that name

You want to buy Chery?