The war vote beat me, admits Kerry

[stevedeshazer]

Senator John Kerry, the defeated Democratic candidate, has blamed his failure to unseat President George W Bush on the traditional advantage held by a president in wartime and his own failure to "connect" with voters.

"I'm not going to lick my wounds or hide under a rock or disappear. I'm going to learn," Mr Kerry told Newsweek magazine in his first interview since the Nov 2 election.

"I've had disappointments and I've learned to cope. I've lost friends, a marriage: I've lost things in life." He then pointed out that no sitting president had ever been defeated during a war.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/03/wkerry03.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/03/ixworld.html

[BattyDem]

1. It's comments like this that make me think ...

the Dems aren't going to do shit on January 6th! I hope I'm wrong. :-(

[Kelvin Mace]

19. Sadly, you are not

The Dems consider the matter settled.

A lot of people in this board are in for a BIG disappointment.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[BattyDem]

25. The Dems will also be in for a disappointment

because the people on this board and people like them are the ones who gave all that money and support to Kerry. Let's face it ... "average" citizens don't do a damn thing unless someone inspires them - and the grassroots did an incredible job of getting people inspired this time around. We can just as easily put our time and money behind a Green or an Independent because if nothing is done about the fraud that took place in this election, no Dem will ever get elected anyway ... so we may as well put our efforts behind someone who will actually fight for us. If the Dems aren't interested in helping us take our country back, then we'll just have to do it without them.

[EFerrari]

32. The thing that is beginning to bother me most is the incipient

racism in the whole thing. Sure, the idea of Bush for four more is loathesome. But nearly as bad is the idea that every four years, we sit by while the black vote is stolen.

I'm already Green and did work for Kerry. From here on out, I'm working for us.

[Voltaire99]

40. "If the Dems aren't interested in helping us take our country back..."

"...then we'll just have to do it without them."

Well said, BattyDem!

That is the true citizen's spirit.

We can try to reform the party. We can try to lead it to economic populism, as critics from Tom Frank to Barbara Ehrenreich to Alexander Cockburn have wisely argued.

But the party may be unreformable. I am occasionally of the mind that the party's implosion would be the best thing for our nation. Unable to distinguish itself from the GOP, it is of use chiefly to itself--feeding itself quite well on its portion of the electoral pie. Its inertia, its sloth, make it unlikely to budge while the cash keeps coming in.

Let us not be led down false paths of reform that will sap our energies. If the party will change, fine. If it will not, well. . .

[Kelvin Mace]

46. I agree

We can no longer rely on the Vichy Democratic Leadership.

They have no spine and believe the solution is to move to the right.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Elidor]

52. I want to see the looks on their faces

When they move to the right and turn around to find there is nobody behind them anymore. The party leadership, like the lemmings they are, are about to march themselves over a cliff. It's a good start.

[aikido15]

63. An alternative to the Democratic Party.....

http://www.solidarity-us.org/index.html I'm considering this party, I like what they stand for, it is what I believe in.

[VegasWolf]

68. Hey the Solidarity Party has the right message for me, "We in

Solidarity believe that socialism can come about only through the power and energy of a mass working-class movement, ..."

[aikido15]

59. Now you're talkin'...

I am done with the Democrats. They are just another branch of corporate America. That is the real terror threat, our country being OWNED and RUN by corporations. It's called "fascism"

Remember this? http://makethemaccountable.com/misc/DemocratsShame2001.htm

I should have walked away from the Democratic party then...

[pretzel4gore]

39. you can't be serious!

wtf! if the interview was from 8 weeks ago, then why is it only being published NOW!

[merh]

61. Wish folks would notice that the damned interview that is the

subject of this article that has been touted as new information ALL over DU today was NOVEMBER 11, 2004. Almost 2 months ago. A lot of evidence has been discovered since this interview.

I consider Conyers a dem and there are plenty of other dems that do not believe the matter is settled.

A lot of people that post to this board are in for a surprise. imho!

DATE OF INTERVIEW - November 11, 2004.

[stlsaxman]

101. The only thing making this "Late Breaking News" is the date Newsweek runs

the interview- 8 weeks later!

Sounds like that swift Rovian move is tearing a lot of people here from supporting Kerry...

We at DU have become a fitting tribute to Rove's method!

[merh]

111. Look how many at DU fell for Rove's tricks - it almost wants to

make you scream "SUCKER" or at least post it to everyone that fell for it and posted a nasty post here!

[Clarkie1]

76. We didn't lose because of election fraud

That doesn't mean we must not fight to improve our voting system.

We lost because not enough people voted for Kerry.

[jasop]

128. You and others like you are the problem

The election fraud was blatant. Research Rove, The Bushes, and the two biggest voting machine makers. Then also look at the Voting officials in the large states like Ohio, Florida, etc. and there is all the proof in the world. Right there in front of your face but its easier to believe on of the media outlets propaganda which is dictated by one of only 7 corporate conglomerates all with connections to the current administration.

[IndianaGreen]

145. Even without cheating in Ohio

Bush would have won the popular vote nationwide. Had Kerry carried Ohio, he would have been in the same role as Bush in 2000, a loser by over a million votes in the popular vote wins on the basis of the archaic Electoral College.

The inept Bush won because Kerry was more inept as a candidate by failing to establish himself as a clear cut alternative to Bush. Kerry was merely an echo of Bush on issues such as PATRIOT, Iraq, and trade.

We should abolish the Electoral College outright!

[IndianaGreen]

147. Democratic Senators will sit on their hands on January 5

just as they did in 2000. At least they cannot blame Nader for this fiasco!

[Al_Smith]

161. Kerry's vote for the war did him in.

And the Dems won't do shit about it.

[Borgnine]

2. "I'm not going to lick my wounds or hide under a rock or disappear. "

Hmm... and I thought he was doing just that as far as the election fraud issue went.

[Seabiscuit]

5. Exactly. After licking his wounds, hiding under a rock and disappearing

since November 3, he emerges whimpering that he's not going to lick his wounds, hide under a rock an disappear.

And to think I voted for that idiot. I should have stayed home Nov. 2. Kerry offered us no real choice against the worst president in history.

[leftchick]

14. I am not so sure....

it seems this interview was from 8 weeks ago. I sure hope he is paying attention and not wasting anymore time.

[lib_1138]

31. I have seen a lot of posts about this...

Aren't they all outdated? Or am I mis-reading?

I am sure Kerry is doing something -- I continue to think something is up but we aren't privy to it.

[pretzel4gore]

37. wait a second...8 weeks ago!

n/t

[zulchzulu]

57. You are indeed mistaken

I love this myth that people keep spewing that Kerry has "done nothing" since the Election. He and his legal team have been doing a LOT, including over 25 press releases and other information about their continuing efforts in finding out what has happened in Ohio, Florida, New Mexico and other locations. Money has been given to various efforts and money has been spent to find out what is happening.

Wait until January 6th. You will be surprised at what's in store.

Here's one article to get started on:
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/the_perfect_election_day_crime.php

[VegasWolf]

69. Are you just saying that or are you putting money up that Kerry will

actually grow a spine and do something.

[Dr Fate]

83. Didnt you read the post- Kerry has "25 press releases!!!!"

Isnt that exciting?!!?!!

Not one single televison interview, but golly, 25 press releases.

Thats doing "somthing" isnt it? Thats "fighting", right? Right? (que in chirping cricket sound effects)

[Dr Fate]

82. 25 press releases? How about demanding a televison interview?

I agree that Kerry has "done nothing."

Press releases dont do jack shit.

If Kerry really wanted to fight, he would be on TV every night making blunt, bold, truthful statements.

DEMS do "press realeses" so that they can remind their base "See, we really are fighting" w/o actually doing it.

[AngryAmish]

73. "Lick my wounds"

Dammit, when someone is shooting at you fire back.

Don't take that shit. When you have been stolen from fight back and take what is yours. Crush the bastards.

[patdem]

3. I will wait for the real deal...the telegraph and drudge are not viable

sources, although they may have the exact quotes. I will wait for the real deal and not give them the benefit of my persual! :grr:

[maddezmom]

51. here's the link to the Newsweek article

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6777696/site/newsweek/

[Tomasj]

4. I cant believe...

I voted for him, how dumb can you be..it's time to go green I am so sick of these wussie dems!

[Lizzie Borden]

26. So, then who were you going to vote for??

The Greens, and waste your vote, or W.? Those were the alternatives. He came so close to winning, and would have without the election fraud.

[Tomasj]

38. I voted Kerry..but wanted Dean..

I was so fired up to see Dean as the front runner, Kerry got my vote just because Dean wasnt the canidate.

[Guaranteed]

99. What? nt

[Child_Of_Isis]

55. I no longer believe that voting green is a waste of a vote.

Think, if this go round, we had voted green instead of Democrat. The Dem's would be freaked. They take us for granted and rely on the 'wasted vote' mentality. This is just my opinion, of course. Once they see that they are losing their base, they may get off of their ass and do something about this mess. And I believe in 08, their heads will swim when they see the green votes.

[AngryAmish]

75. Wasted vote?!?

So they can take my money and still beef me in the ass?

I want a real change! And this is what they give me?

[Child_Of_Isis]

85. I think there are a lot of people thinking the same way,

and if the Dems let us down again, they will take their vote elsewhere. I know I am. I invested too much this time around to fall for it again. I feel absolutely betrayed, and I know many others do also.

[VegasWolf]

70. No, I seriously think backing the Green or Solidarity or some

other progressive party is the way to go. I voted for
Kerry and voted straight dem ticket and W is more in
control now than ever before. The true test will be
to see if some dem senator has the balls to contest the
election, fillibuster against fundie judges, etc. I am
not exactly waiting with bated breath.

[GreenArrow]

108. since Kerry "lost"

a vote for the Greens most certainly would not have been wasted.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

124. My vote for Kerry was a waste this time around

the way I see it.

I would rather that my vote had helped to legitimize an actual progressive movement as opposed to what it did accomplish: statements by the Democrats that they're thinking of dropping the pro-choice stance and an essentially complete denial of any sort of vote suppression or fraud.

Granted, I live in a very safely blue state. This does it make it easier for me.

[Bridget Burke]

34. I can't either.

So--who did you vote for?

[Guaranteed]

98. ........

;)

[tabasco]

79. I can't believe you did either.

I'll take a wussie dem with a Silver Star over a coward preppie.

[Oversea Visitor]

6. Give this guy a break

.... A marriage.... ???

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. This is from an interview that happened TWO MONTHS AGO

This is very underhanded to make it appear like this is new news.

Figures Richard Perle and his friends would be the first to jump on the bandwagon. Must be something big cooking.

[MandateThis]

103. Story 2 mos. ago to keep bush from worrying o'er his Man Date!

Kerry was only working behind the scenes at this point. Check out Breakfornews.com. And isn't it interesting that Newsweek chose to print this now??? I read things carefully these days and I consider the source. This is the msm folks! Don't be fooled so easily. Kerry is smart enough to know he won!

[sally343434]

8. The title tricked me

Yes, John. It was "the war vote" that beat you. Too bad you don't know WHICH war vote. It was YOUR war vote, John. You know, the one you said you'd DO AGAIN even after you found out it was all a bunch of lies.

What an ass.

[surfermaw]

15. Righr on Sally

I thought on the day John Edwards and Kerry voted for the war,they were goners..Remember Nixon won on a promise to stop the Vietnam war, but it took him a long time to live up to his promise.

[Lizzie Borden]

27. Uh yeah. Nixon's so-called "secret plan"

Turned out to be cut and run. Peace with honor is what he called it. Right.

[ramapo]

53. Yeah, secret plan to get reelected

Nixon laid it out for Bush to follow

[Voltaire99]

42. I agree: voting for Iraq, he beat himself

In the face of a fired-up historically enormous peace movement, he preached war.

An ass, indeed.

[VegasWolf]

71. and his quibbling words which made it appear that he was flip flopping

didn't help him either.

[Guaranteed]

97. Yep, I wonder if they did that on purpose.

It's tricking everyone, though. Kinda wish we could do something to change that.

[saracat]

9. THIS IS A NOV.11th INTERVIEW!

And no where does he actually say he "lost". Stop the defeatist attiude and stop swallowing all the rw spin.

[BattyDem]

16. November 11th? I didn't know it was that old.

That little bit of info changes things. So ... why are they releasing it now? Are the Repugs getting nervous?

[saracat]

17. I imagine so. Why NOW indeed?

[ebayfool]

81. They are feeling threatened, so they send out an attack dog to do a ...

completely slanted & condescending piece - held it for ammo till they needed it - & BAM! Just when they are getting the vibe that Conyers & the grassroot Dems aren't caving, they swing it out - to the great delight of a lot of 'Fair Weather Democrats' & undercover freepers looking to score one of their vaunted DU badges! And boy, are they getting their money's worth! The man doesn't need pity, he needs some damn loyalty!

(the above is not referring to you sara, it's in answer to "why now?")

[saracat]

87. Exactly right on. I am pissed by this interview and its slant. Please,

People have GOT to stop jumping onthe GOP'S hack bandwagon! Sheesh! You think they would Know not to believe what they read by these people. Some should be very careful who they trust! !:bounce: And I gotcha D!:)

[stlsaxman]

102. Because Rove is a brilliant strategist!

This single release of a two-month old article as "Late Breaking News" has had the effect he's been wanting from the MSM...

Divide And Conquer!

...and just look how promising that brand spanking new "Solidarity Party" seems now! Let's all go there (or at least a 3rd of us)!

Good Job, Karl!!!!!

[IndianaGreen]

148. Newsweek is publishing a book about the 2004 campaign

this interview is part of that upcoming book.

More here:

Kerry has not given any formal interviews since his defeat. But on Nov. 11, nine days after the election, Kerry summoned a NEWSWEEK reporter to his house on Boston's fashionable Louisberg Square. He wanted to complain about NEWSWEEK's election issue, which he said was unduly harsh and gossipy about him, his staff and his wife. (The 45,000-word article, the product of a yearlong reporting project, is being published next week as a book, "Election 2004," by PublicAffairs.)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6777696/site/newsweek/

[shance]

10. Is anyone else insulted by such an innocuous reply as I am?

Could he say something real?

Perhaps he thinks we all buy the words, but I prefer something other than broad, vast, sweeping generalizations from his book of the 10 best and safest replies to give to the press.

I think its incredibly insulting to those (not me*) who worked as hard as they did on his campaign and those that actually believed in him.

Im tired of being lied to.

[madrchsod]

11. the front runner in 2008????

if that is the case,i will leave this fuck`n country.

[Lizzie Borden]

28. Bye.

[Guaranteed]

100. You're STILL wanting that guy up there?????

He LOST!! And he lost because he HAD NO CLEAR PRINCIPLES. People just didn't believe him!!!

He won't win next time, either!

[IndianaGreen]

152. DLCers will have to pick between Kerry or Hillary in 2008

before they try to sell their choice as the "Mr/Mrs Electable" for 2008.

I rather progressives rally around a candidate that shares our core values and fights for them, and that means an antiwar candidate that will bring the troops home.

[Seabiscuit]

12. Wake up, J.K.! Your failure to oppose the war beat you!

You sounded like Bush-lite on the Iraq war. (Gee, I just would have done a better job of committing genocide).

[Tinoire]

92. Amen Seabiscuit. He still hasn't got a damn clue. n/t

[GreenArrow]

13. No shit, Sherlock

the problem wasn't the "traditional advantage held by a president in wartime," it was that you did and continue to support that illegal, immoral, unprovoked war of conquest and imperial expansion.

[Disturbed]

18. Maybe...

Kerry is relieved that he won't have to bear the burden of the mess.

Seems to me that his statement that he would still have voted for IWR knowing what he now knows killed his chances.Shit even D. Feinstein, Dem Rethug Lite, said that she would've voted NO had she known.

[GreenArrow]

24. seems that way to me, too

It was bad enough that he voted for IWR to begin with, but then to say that he still would even after it was proven (it was already known, even as Bush and Co. sold the damn thing) to be based on one lie built upon another and a genral, FUBAR disaster, was icing on the fucking cake.

[AmerDem]

20. don't ya just love how Newsweek sat on this non story

until the week of January 6th? This is all we're going to hear from the MSM for the rest of the week. Just in time to take House members contesting the election (hopefully with 1 Senator) off the headlines.

The conversation happened on Nov. 11th. Corporate worms are always at it and the Dem leadership is no where to found.

[corbett]

22. I Can Live With It

When the election challenge happens and the truth is revealed, the MSM will have to eat a four-course dinner of crow. This tactical interview will enter the realm of short-attention-span theater!

[Erika]

21. This is an old quote and quite correct to a degree.

I've heard many around me saying they didn't like Bush but they voted for him. Their thought was that Bush started the war so he should finish it.

The fraudulent vote is another matter.

[demwing]

23. Are These The Words Of A Man With A Master Plan For Unseating Bush?

No, sadly, they are not.

[AngryAmish]

77. Amen

The money I spent on someone who will not fight.

From here on out, only those willing to stand up to the shit-eaters get my money.

[sandnsea]

29. People are hopelessly stupid

Interesting this article should come out now so disappointed Democrats can become even more discouraged. So the circular firing squad can grow larger. The media trashes Democrats to turn us against each other and keep us off Bush. They've been doing it for years now and the same crowd keeps lapping it up. No matter how they may know the media lies, manipulates and panders for the Bushies; they just can't see it when they're the target. Hopelessly stupid.

[liam97]

35. I can't believe that rawstory published this

w/out mentioning when it is from

[KoKo]

47. It was posted early this morning from Drudge and people keep pushing

it here. It's old and many of us had seen these quotes before. It's Drudge and his Pipeline from Issikoff at Newsweek trying to discourage any thoughts of Vote Protest.

It's the way they work. I assume some new DU'ers might not have caught on to this, because it's been posted all over today...but we kept telling folks it's old...from November 11th. Who knows what Kerry thinks today...The article is part of a Newsweek series where they followed both candidates around through the Campaigns.

Just more Druge disinformation to put out to demoralize folks like us.

[Voltaire99]

45. Now, now; no need for name calling

Sorry, but a dose of self-criticism would do all of us some good. We backed a weak guy, a very weak guy, who proved himself unwilling to fight even for fair elections, and now he's mouthing empty platitudes--no wiser than when he started.

The longer we avoid facing up to the bitter truth, the longer we can pin our slide into irrelevance on convenient targets like "the media."

The sooner we face up to the matters at hand, the sooner we can reform this moribund and nearly-useless party.

[sandnsea]

127. Let's back a socialist next time

You'd like it, but then we'd really find out what irrelevance is. Self-criticism is a great thing, but seems to me some people are incapable of it and it's not John Kerry, the DNC or even the DLC.

[paulk]

49. Can't you just FEEL the LOVE

on this thread?

[The Zanti Regent]

30. Thanks for letting my only child down, John!

In fact, thank you for making the Bonesman deal that put my only child down.

Six feet down in the Los Angeles VA Cemetary, John

Bart Cop was right, you ARE a spineless wimp who laid down and died with your pink tutu on.

[kodi]

33. no sitting president had ever been defeated during a war is why bush went

it was and is still the reason that is most obvious.

and i think why jimmy carter is so bitter about bush. had he done in 1979-80 things akin to that which bush has in 2003-4 ronald reagan would not even have run in 1980.

carter knows better than anyone what bush did and did for personal, not national defense reasons.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Flammable Materials]

41. Glad I went with my gut instinct ...

... and removed all semblance of Kerry support from my car after he conceded on Nov 3rd.

Fight for us, my ass.

NEVER AGAIN. As soon as I can raise the money, I'm so out of here, it's unbelievable.

http://www.flammablematerials.com

[Voltaire99]

48. This is exactly why Kerry was disastrous...

...for the future of the nation and the party.

If, as Kerry now pathetically implies, it was always impossible to unseat a sitting war president, then why didn't he step aside and let someone with principles and passion run? Instead of saying, essentially, "Vote for me--I'll be the *better* war president!"

Running a man without spirit--siphoning off the remaining dregs of idealism in the party--was criminal.

It has set back the cause of reform by years, and it should lead to the entire Democratic establishment being turned out. We need a new, reinvigorated party. A party that stands for much, much more than GOP lite!

[Flammable Materials]

117. EXACTLY! I know that I was so fired up and angry on December 3rd ...

... before his concession, that I was ready and willing to do whatever I had to do to make sure that democracy won out in the end. I had so much fury and righteous anger that I would have marched until my feet were stumps, I would have camped out for days and weeks and months like the Ukranians did, and I'm positive that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US would have done just as much, if not more.

It was KERRY HIMSELF that dealt the blow that severed the jugular of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. We were rendered lifeless by our own candidate.

Karl Rove couldn't have succeeded more effectively if he had tried.

[Davis_X_Machina]

43. Enoch Dunlap, by Edgar Lee Masters

How many times, during the twenty years
I was your leader, friends of Spoon River,
Did you neglect the convention and caucus,
And leave the burden on my hands
Of guarding and saving the people’s cause?—
Sometimes because you were ill;
Or your grandmother was ill;
Or you drank too much and fell asleep;
Or else you said: “He is our leader,
All will be well; he fights for us
We have nothing to do but follow.”
But oh, how you cursed me when I fell,
And cursed me, saying I had betrayed you,
In leaving the caucus room for a moment,
When the people’s enemies, there assembled,
Waited and watched for a chance to destroy
The Sacred Rights of the People.
You common rabble! I left the caucus
To go to the urinal!

From Spoon River Anthology

Politicians are just people, folks.

[Flammable Materials]

44. Kerry: "I've had...I've learned...I've lost...I've lost..."

It's all about you isn't it, you spoiled rich bastard?

What about your constituents? What about the country? What about democracy, you sorry sack of shit?

Right now, Mr. Kerry, I hate you more than I hate George Bush. And that's saying a lot.

[DCdem87]

50. I happen to think it was the latter reason

Kerry lost because he was a bad campaigner and didn't connect with voters. Of course there are the liberals like us that knew what he was about and supported him, but he was always 10 steps behind the dubya attack machine. What are we liberals to look foreward to if all of our politicians won't stand up and fight? God save the Democratic Party!!!!!

[Gloria]

54. I wish this sort of talk would stop and that Dems would shut up

about all their "analysis"....

They all need to be given bread and water for awhile and taught to be tougher.

[Crazy8s]

56. I think

that this thread is based on a load of out of date crap that should be locked and dropped. Thank you.

[bunkerbuster1]

113. I agree with this post.

[bcflor]

125. So, you don't support

free speech???

[bunkerbuster1]

131. I disagree with that post.

[zulchzulu]

58. Those too mentally challenged misunderstood Kerry's "war vote"

Kerry was consistent throughout the entire time. He voted for the IWR to have the UN to continue inspections for WMDs and IF there were WMDs found or Iraq did not allow the UN to inspect, a clear and large multinational force under the auspices of the UN would only disarm Iraq AS A LAST RESORT.

That's not "voting for war". That's voting for the UN to do its job.

It appears that is too complicated and "nuanced" for some people to understand.

[aikido15]

60. Yes, but...

"I actually voted for the war before I voted against it" wasn't explaining his position very well...in fact it is ranked one of the 10 dumbest statements of 2004. And I voted for Kerry so don't kick my ass, I'm kicking it enough for both of us for giving him and this weak ass party my hard work, money, and my vote...FUCK THEM!

[bcflor]

122. One of the

stupidest quotes of the year!! When it first came out I thought the Republicans cut and pasted it together as a joke on Kerry. When I realized it was true and Kerry did say it, I couldn't believe it. It was all downhill from there.

[Guaranteed]

96. Blah blah blah anyway, YOU are not reading the headline

correctly.

Read the article, then decipher what the headline REALLY means. Has nothing to do with the IWR.

[zulchzulu]

104. I was referring to some of the responses

I read the article too...

[SOS]

118. Disagree

The IWR vote was a calculated political gamble which Kerry lost.
23 Senators knew exactly what the resolution meant, as did Kerry and Edwards.
They were faced with unknowns and had to roll the dice.
If WMD had been uncovered after the invasion, Kerry's presidential aspirations would have been crushed and he knew it. Read Sec 3 carefully and you will see that the vote was indeed "a vote for war":

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This joint resolution may be cited as the 'Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq'.

SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS.

The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the President to -
strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions applicable to Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and
obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to -
defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that -
reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

On edit: re nuance, there is no mention of "a clear and large multinational force under the auspices of the UN" in the IWR.

[agincourt]

137. Correct me if I'm wrong,

but wasn't Saddam complying with the UN resolutions before the invasion? Even agreeing to allow a blue-helmet force to be stationed there? I remember hearing we have to invade because we would look foolish if we didn't, after the call-ups, deployments and all.

[CTLawGuy]

141. does the UN need a vote from Congress to do its job?

Gosh! it must be weaker than I thought!

And Bush used that same resolution's authority to go to war, since it is an "authorization of force" resolution, like the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was.

Also, are you implying that Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd DIDN'T want the UN to do its job?

Kerry's vote was a bit of self-serving political calculus, which I had hoped in the article he might have apologized for; but alas, no such apology was there.

[IndianaGreen]

150. People saw Kerry's explanation for his IWR vote for what it was...

pure, unadulterated BULLSHIT!

More from the Newsweek article:

Not all of Kerry's supporters are so sanguine. In the heady days before the election, Kerry's top aides sat around picking a cabinet (one plan was to ask Colin Powell to stay on as secretary of State, thereby avoiding a massive power struggle between Sen. Joe Biden and Democratic foreign-policy wise man Richard Holbrooke). Nowadays the foreign-policy team still meets on the assumption that it could be reconstituted for '08. But the reality is, "it's mostly sitting around some lawyer's office and asking each other if we've heard about jobs," says a member of the team. As for Kerry, says this adviser, "he thinks he's the front runner for '08 without recognizing that he needs to do some soul-searching. If he wants to come back, he'll have to come back as a different candidate, not the stiff who plays it safe and takes four sides of every issue."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6777696/site/newsweek/

[reprobate]

62. Look, I know it's an old article. I know they use it against us.

But there's something that we, as democrats must finally face.

The fact is that THERE IS NO LONGER A DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Kerry was, is, and always will be a part of the power structure. The power structure that runs this country. The power structure that's running this country into the ground.

To expect Kerry to fight for us-I mean really fight for the workers-is to expect Herman Goering to stand in front of the cattle cars carrying the Jews to Auschwitz with his hand up to stop them. The power elite would destroy him.

As of now, I can see no possibility of overthrowing the powers in charge of the nation. They own the three branches of gov't and the media. It's what used to be called fascism (or the German equivalent Nazi-ism). I think that we will have to wait for a little while. The near future holds the failure of the American economic system. There's not much that could be done to stop it now. Greed always trumps altruism.

What we must do is wait and be ready when enough are so fed up with both 'parties' that they are ready for BIG change. And we must have alternatives ready. There are some minor parties with some intriguing ideas out there. We should pick and choose among them for the most appropriate suggestions and synthesize an organization that most Americans will find appealing.

Here's but one example. I'm sure that there are many more.

www.americanrevolutionaryparty.us

The one thing that age has taught me is that the only constant is change. We must be ready for it.

[aikido15]

65. I can relate to this one better...

http://www.solidarity-us.org/index.html

[reprobate]

66. That's great. Bookmarked it. Let's see more.

We need new ideas. The more the better. America needs new leadership. We can show the way if we aren't afraid to try new things.

Let's get more involved.

Suggestions?

Let's all join in.

[aikido15]

84. We do need new leadership...

I contacted this party yesterday with some questions like, how many members they have, is there a chapter near me, etc... I really like what they stand for. I especially like that they stand in solidarity with other countries also, remaining faithful first to our country. I think that is a major problem, so many people don't see how we are interconnected with ALL the people of the world...when one suffers, we all suffer.

It's time for a revolutionary change.

[paulk]

67. Kerry as Herman Goering ????

:eyes:

[reprobate]

129. Not kerry as Goering. Kerry as part of the ruling elite. Get it?

[paulk]

135. LOL

what a load of crap!

:crazy:

[reprobate]

138. What a cogent and thought provoking comment.

If you would like to discuss the issue, then feel free to speak your mind. Otherwise, comments such as this add nothing to the conversation.

I will not bother to attack except to say that we are known by our speech, and yours speaks volumes. All negative.

[paulk]

142. I save my cogent comments for posts that deserve them

Comparing John Kerry to Herman Goering deserves only contempt.

I'm not interested in adding anything to this conversation other than pointing out the absurdity of your post.

There's nothing to discuss.

[reprobate]

144. Perhaps I did not explain clearly. I did NOT compare Kerry to Goering

What I said was that as a member of the ruling elite to expect Kerry to put himself in jeopardy to help the 'great unwashed' was just as ridiculous as .......(you fill in the blank). I used Goering and the cattle cars as the most outrageous example to come to mind. In fact, I consider Goering, as head of the Luftwaffe to be directly responsible for at least the death of one of my uncles and the rest of his crew in the B-24 he navigated.

I consider Kerry a fairly good man. But as a member of the ruling elite he is not in a position to go against his peers. If he did he would likely have been excommunicated from the power structure.

In fact, I consider the 'swift boat vets' attack on Kerry to have been a shot across his bow, a communication intended to quiet him down and not make so much noise about bush and his record.

In the future I would appreciate it if you would ask for clarification of one of my statements if you disagree. I think those of us with such high postings are here to discuss the political problems we face as a democracy. Inquiry is always more productive than invective.

[Dr Fate]

64. "I'm going to learn" You mean you have not already learned????

I've already learned everything I need to know about the lies & corruptness of Bush & the media-and I'm just little old Mr. Nobody, Dr Fate.

Kerry really sucks. Theres a bout a MILLION things he could have said that would be more effective than "I'm going to learn."

You better fucking "learn" right this minute, or either switch parties.

[lovuian]

72. American people are just going to have to suffer

and get off their butts and take back this country!!!

Cause Republicans are going to destroy the Economy
the Military
and our government

[VegasWolf]

74. His lack of response to the Swift Boat Vets beat him.n/t

[Dr Fate]

80. Yup-His apparent refusal to tell the truth about Bush & the media.

It seems pretty simple, and most of the base was SCREAMING for him to punch back.

But the "base", who donates millions of dollars & volunteer hours are all considered "Micheal Moore nuts" by the DNC, so they ignored us.

[GreenArrow]

109. most of his base was screaming for him to punch FIRST

and to keep punching.

[SOS]

160. Exactly

The Bush campaign stomped on Kerry relentlessly.
"Swift Boats!' "Phony purple hearts!" Liberal from Massachusetts!" "Flip-flopper!"
The Democratic lack of response was absolutely infuriating.
And this isn't 20/20 hindsight. As it was happening, I, for one, was yelling at my TV screen
"Hit back, fer cryin' out loud, what's wrong with you?!!"

[AngryAmish]

78. "You sweat, and you bleed, and you pay the price"

Immortal words about what it takes to get to the top.

Did Kerry pay the price? Not Vietnam, but during the election? Especially on those Cape Cod vacations?

[Sleepless In NY]

86. John Kerry ....you beat yourself

What happened to the guy I voted for who said he was going to make an issue of "Mission Accomplished"? hmmm?

You were 8 points ahead till the flip flopping & swift boat liars ads. As you began to lose your lead, did it ever occur to you that maybe you should respond? Guess not.

And whose brilliant idea was it to take the Mc Cain ad down? Hope you "learned" what a back stabber McCain really is now. After what he did to you at that convention, you should have immediately put those ads back up! What the hell were you thinking?

Where were you during the RNC convention in NY? Alot of people thought you would come here and support our cops and firemen who can't even get a decent salary. What an ass you would have made of bush and all those crying crocidile tears over 9/11. Why you could have even brought up the fact NY gets less from Homeland Security than Wyoming...actually opening the eyes and ears of some voters who believed bush ever gave a damn about NY.

Two things that really made me sick in the debates were:

1. "You've done a good job Mr President handling 9/11." Really? Did you think voters would then find any need to vote for you?? And to think Kristen Breitweiser went out on a limb supporting you! She fought for 2 years while bush stonewalled her every attempt for an investigation. "Good Job" ???? What's wrong with you?

2. Why did you allow bush to bash your state repeatedly?? If you can't defend your own state, how the hell are you going to stand up for anything? You couldn't remind that moron , servicemen and women from that "state" are serving in Iraq? That it played an important part in our American History? Shame on you.


Now I'm suppose to feel sorry for you? Get a grip! We all know there is something radically wrong with voting in this country, it should be as easy as going to an ATM machine, with proof of your vote. Did you even bother listening to any of the citzens testifying at Rep Conyers hearings? They have legitimate complaints. Will you stand up for them? You probably won Ohio, yet you bailed..on all of us.

Shirley Chisholm died tonite, a woman who wasn't afraid to speak up about anything. You should "learn" something from her: "My greatest political asset, which professional politicians fear, is my mouth, out of which come all kinds of things one shouldn't always discuss for reasons of political expediency."

Try it sometime John...if you want to prove to people you will fight for their health insurance, jobs, or anything, you have to prove you can kick some ass first or they wont buy it or you.

Jan 6th you want to prove you can lead? Get your party together and in unison, protest.

[Rainscents]

90. I was die hard Kerry voter...

I will NOT vote for another guy who is NOT going to stand up and fight!!! We need someone who has guts and who is NOT involve with CORPORATE!!! I wonder, in 2008, someone is going to emerge out of nowhere and mobilizing grassroots and the country. I have a gut feeling, there will be another ROSS PROIT out there who will do this! Ross Proit was so write about so many things and he even got 23% of the votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoever that person is, he may even win the election because he will NOT let us lay down and take NO shit from Republicans! This man might also do same thing that happen in Ukrain... Tell everyone who is wanting to change, we better all stands together and march to White-house if there had been frauds in the election and demand new election!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bcflor]

123. totally agree!

Kerry in 3 words" WEAK, weak and weak!

[Borgnine]

91. Well said.

I like Kerry. I thought, and still think, he's a good man. But as far as a candidate goes, every little movement he made was carefully managed to the point where he couldn't breath without considering the political ramifications. You bring up an excellent point about bashing Massachussetts. Kerry had an excellent opening to go off on Bush there, proudly defending his home state, showing that America should be united rather than divided, and proving that he has fire in his belly.

Despite it all, he probably won the election. And yet because he would still have a Senate career to fall back on and chances are he wouldn't win the fight, he backed out early. Sure, he might be comfortable in Bush's America, but did he have any idea people across the WORLD were counting on him? I'm sorry, but if he couldn't see this then it was selfish of him to run. We needed a candidate who wanted to stand up and take back the country, not simply run because he felt he was entitled and it was "his time."

[GreenArrow]

110. "Mr. "President" there would not be a Uunited States of

America without Massachusetts liberals. The Sons of Liberty. The Boston Tea Party. The Boston Massacre. Do these even mean anything to you, Mr. "President"?

[saracat]

88. KERRY DOESN"T SAY ANY SUCH THING!

This is a very misleading headline. Read thr GD article.He NEVER says that.

[fooj]

89. What is this all about? Has January 6th already passed?

I'm going with the -Layin' low until the show- group!! The magic is in the power of the message!!!B-)

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING???:think: :think: :think:

[sendero]

105. I've heard...

... date after date since this whole debacle began. I'm really supposed to buy into the idea that anything substantial (and if it is not all over CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX etc - it is NOT SUBSTANTIAL) is going to happen on the sixth?

I'd love to be wrong but I've been right so many times I'm getting used to it.

Kerry is more worried about 2008 than he is about 2004, which makes him suitable for neither.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. 8 week old interview and it is rolled out NOW

for the Right Wing Echo Media machine?

Anybody smell a right wing rat here? or am I alone on this ?

(I know I am not, some others have pointed this out)

[IndianaGreen]

151. Newsweek is publishing a book about Election 2004

this interview is part of that book:

In a new book, NEWSWEEK talks exclusively with John Kerry about why he lost—and looks at his plans for another run

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6777696/site/newsweek/

[Vektor]

94. Fraud beat Kerry.

Not the "war vote", not "not connecting"...
F-R-A-U-D.

[sabra]

114. Agree totally!!! n/t

[Guaranteed]

95. VERY, VERY MISLEADING HEADLINE, FOLKS.

They mean the election- the wartime election- beat him.

I read the article and it said nothing about the IWR.

[JMS825]

106. John Kerry is a disappointment

Kerry wants America to elect him 08 yet he ran on us in 04 by not challenging the ohio election....Kerry's only chance to win was 04 cause so many people hated Bush...I wrote Kerry and told him since he did not support America in our time of need we wont support him in his time of need. So say goodbye to Kerry and HELLO to Hillary

[sleepyhead]

156. Goodbye to frying pan, hello to fire. n/t

[GOPBasher]

107. I blame it on Diebold.

[angka]

112. if i write what i feel here, i'll get tombstoned.

so i wrote it here:

http://www.rmpn.org/weblog/archives3/permalink/003708.cfm

god help us.

[The Stranger]

115. The election wasn't during a war.

That is just what the Nazis in the country have tried to make everyone believe. You have already bought into the lies.

Nice try, John.

[Q]

116. D

u
h
!

[peacetalksforall]

119. Your subject line got me. "The war vote beat me, admits Kerry"

I thought it was going to be an admission that he should not have voted for the war in Iraq. People will correct me to say he gave Bush the authority to act subject to coalitions, etc. But, we knew what was going on and he didn't?

Anyway, what he said wasn't an admission, it was an excuse. I would still vote for him in a second if we had to vote over again and my vote wouldn't be entirely ABB, but I never want to have to vote for anyone who voted to kill Iraqis.

[leesa]

120. Duh? Had you had the balls to state that this was an illegal, immoral war

perhaps it would have made a difference. Caving in to the RW rhetoric....what CRAP to promote the idea that a sitting pres can't be removed during a fake war he created. Dems just DISGUST me!

[bcflor]

126. spine

Maybe Kerry can find a spine or backbone during the next four yesrs. I doubt it!

[Massachusetts]

121. KERRY BEAT KERRY!

[Merlin]

130. Link to MSNBC story. It's Harry Dean Stanton, I swear!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6777696/site/newsweek/


Kerry: Is it safe to come back?

[Massachusetts]

132. Soupy Sales with a face lift

[The Zanti Regent]

140. Don't insult Soupy Sales

Soupy was all class and Kerry is a fucking ass!

Thanks for voting for your Skull and Bones pal's war, John. Thanks for killing my only child. Thanks for nothing you worthless freeze dried dog turd...

[GOPBasher]

133. No, Kerry, Diebold beat you.

[Sterling]

136. His war vote did hurt him.

It made it impossible to make a logical and consistent argument on Iraq and made flip flopping the point instead of how stupid invading Iraq was in the first place.

[GOPBasher]

157. Oh I agree with you, but still he never stood any chance anyway,

because the machines were rigged.

[The_Casual_Observer]

134. Kerry, a mere big city boy mortal

Tricked by a good ol'boy Texas Hold'em maneuver. chimp backed him into a no win corner. The only way out was to gamble that Saddam didn't really have the WMD. Dennis K. wasn't afraid to make that move and call chimp's bluff, Kerry was, and he and the rest of us paid the price.

[d_b]

139. He picked one hell of a time to begin to 'learn'

[Laurab]

143. Monday Morning QB - Kerry Basher Thread

I wasted my time reading the posts, thought maybe I could save other people the time. The Rove machine never ceases to amaze me.

[IndianaGreen]

146. Kerry is bashing himself in this article

Rove is not superman! Unfortunately, the DLC-led Democrats are bound and determined to turn the party into a Lite version of the Republicans. As long as we try to be an echo of the GOP, we will continue to lose elections.

[dolstein]

149. His war vote didn't kill him, what killed him

was his inability to actually explain his war vote to the electorate, his inability to refute charges by the Bush campaign that Kerry kept changing his position on the war, and his inability to explain just what he'd do differently in Iraq and why he could do better than Bush.

[puddycat]

153. I like Kerry, but can't believe he thinks he's the frontrunner for 08

I hope he continues in his Senate job for Mass, but no way will I ever vote for him again for President. He had his chance.

If the Dem party runs him in 08 I'll vote Green probably.

[clem_c_rock]

154. Or maybe fixed voting machines owned and counted by the GOP

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm#password

[njdemocrat106]

155. I'll always like Kerry

This is just my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions ;) ) , but I think if Kerry knew he had a chance to reclaim the Presidency by January 6, he would have been protesting a long time ago. I honestly blame 59 million pea-brained dimwits for re-electing the worst president in history. Some of you people talk as if Kerry is the Devil himself, so I still can't understand the hate for him here. Come on, suppose you woke up tomorrow and they announced that John Kerry will be President on Inaugaration Day. (It would take a miracle, I know). Wouldn't you be happy?

[Laurab]

158. I agree, mostly

I'm not sure about the number of "pea-brained dimwits" - there are a lot, but I'm not sure there are that many. I can't help but think they were helped along by some slick computer work, among other things. I also am not convinced that Kerry isn't protesting, but he's maybe working with the facts he's got, not the facts he wants (Rumsfield is so quotable).

What bothers me is that many, many posters in this thread are using the EXACT same talking points that were drummed into people's heads by the right-wing media. "Flip-flopper", "I voted for before I voted against"...sheesh - I can go to Freeperville if I want to see that.

I'm not sure anyone who voted for the war (incidentally it was the funding he "voted for before he voted against"), believed that * was actually going to do something so completely unprecedented, and launch a preemptive, illegal war, prior to taking the steps he was supposed to take to ensure war was necessary.

It seems that for some people, the guy can't do anything right, and didn't do anything right. I disagree for a lot of reasons, but most of all, I disagree because I don't think it was an honest election.

Time will tell, maybe. In the meantime I'm just not sure what is being accomplished by all the bashing of John Kerry, aside from making the Rethugs happy.

[greenohio]

159. I had my differences with Kerry, but I don't hate him.

Its sad to read what people post about him now.