Man Charged Under Patriot Act for Laser

[seriousstan]

NEWARK, N.J. (AP) - Federal authorities Tuesday used the Patriot Act to charge a man with pointing a laser beam at an airplane overhead and temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot.

The FBI acknowledged the incident had no connection to terrorism but called David Banach's actions "foolhardy and negligent."

Banach, 38, of Parsippany admitted to federal agents that he pointed the light beam at a jet and a helicopter over his home near Teterboro Airport last week, authorities said. Initially, he claimed his daughter aimed the device at the helicopter, they said.

He is the first person arrested after a recent rash of reports around the nation of laser beams hitting airplanes.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050105/D87DMD880.html

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. ok so a pen laser was able to hit and blind piolots

atleast 200 feet over head, in fast moving vehicles, from underneath....RIIIIGHT

[Kire]

3. not a pen laser

"Banach bought the device on the Internet for $100 for his job testing fiber-optic cable."

[seriousstan]

4. You have no idea what size or power unit this was.

Try googling green light laser.

[lazarus]

9. my wife used to work with them

she works in fibre optics, doing installations.

The idea of one of these testers blinding someone is very sketchy. Yeah, it likely difracted on the windshield, and the pilot freaked out and reported it, and said he and the copilot were 'blinded'. It might have impaired their vision through the window, for a split second. That's it.

This is another overreaction.

Anything strong enough to actually blind them wouldn't be handheld, and would cost a lot more than $100.

[7th_Sephiroth]

13. allright, so it might be powerfull enough

but how the hell do you get an angle on something like that

[imenja]

2. did they need the patriot act for that? n/t.

[daleo]

11. I very much doubt it.

But this way they can put him in jail for life without all the bother of a trial. Just kidding, I think.

[wtmusic]

5. 'Temporarily blinding the pilot'

What a bunch of crap.

Our vigilant feds busting laser-pointers, while container ships go uninspected...

[Cooley Hurd]

17. Exactly! I fear that's where the biggest danger lies...

With the thousands of container ships entering US harbors each week, and DHS underfunded for inspections and NBC detectors in each of our ports, the opportunity for terr'ists to exploit this weakness is great.

Instead, we'll fill Gitmo with telecommunications workers suffering from colossally bad judgement...:eyes:

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. Meanwhile Walmart and other big importers

are excluded from the inspections.

[Mike Niendorff]

6. So, to sum up:

The "Patriot Act" now applies to domestic law enforcement cases, even if they have nothing to do with terrorism.

Stay tuned.


MDN

[Syrinx]

7. no doubt

They've used the Patriot Act to go after the owners of strip joints. The Act has little really to do with terrorism... it simply made the US a police state, yet nobody noticed.

[aquart]

12. I noticed.

[Syrinx]

14. like I said nobody noticed

No offense. But you and I are "nobody." When will the "somebodies" care, or is it too late?

[anarchy1999]

49. Too late, sorry.

"We" let them get away with it. Welcome to the new USofA.

[canadianbeaver]

59. U.S. of Fucking Americans!!!!!!

on edit:

meaning - getting Fucked not that you are Fucking Americans...just wanted to clarify

[BiggJawn]

32. Me too. And I told Bayh and Lugar about it.

And I think I was told that Calico Johnnie wouldn't turn his evil powers against non-muslim people, so chill out, dude...

We're nobodies.

[annabanana]

20. I hadn't heard this.. do you have a link?

It doesn't surprise me, but I'm curious about how the argument was constructed.

[tyedyeto]

27. I overheard at the bank the other day....

a loan officer telling a client that under the Patriot Act, they would need copies of the client's driver's license. Wasn't paying any attention to what had been said before those two words 'Patriot Act' were said. That perked my ears right up. What the f* does getting a home loan have to do with the PA?????

[patcox2]

54. Patriot Act Contains Customer ID protocols,

Really not too dangerous, it requires financial institutions to verify the identification of people opening accounts. Its meant to stop money-laundering.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

34. Trying to bring down an aircraft is terrorism in my book

And there is nothing innocuous about attempting to blind the pilots while landing where even a second's interruption might cost lives.

Yes, I'm guessing they could do this under normal law -- attempted murder, assault, etc., but it still looks like terrorism to me.

[LynnTheDem]

38. Pulleeeese!

The man was playing around with his new toy.

Even the FBI just call it "foolish and negligent".

[AliciaKeyedUp]

42. I'm not so sure you'd say that had you been on the plane

I know I wouldn't.

[LynnTheDem]

45. The FBI should know, dontcha think?

And they THEMSELVES are saying it was NOT terrorism, it was JUST A FOOLHARDY and NEGLIGENT thing to do.

In which case there was no need whatsoever to charge the guy under the Patriot Act.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

47. Funny, how you are quick to agree with the FBI here

And yet so many are critical of them any other time.

Personally, I would have made it easy and charged him with assault, attempted murder and anything else under the sun I could find. However, I think attacking an aircraft is still terrorism.

[LynnTheDem]

52. I agree with the FBI on this, yep.

It isn't attempted murder; look up the legal definition.

The man was sitting with his daughter in his backyard flashing their new laser toy at stars. There is NO WAY he could have known it would hit the cockpit & blind the pilots, he was too far away and at night for him to have known this.

He was STUPID. FOOLHARDY. NEGLIGENT.

It was NOT "attacking an aircraft"! That's so totally ridiculous.

[RetroLounge]

39. Gee why am I not surprised to see you take this stance.

if nothing else, at least you are consistent.

"Trying to bring down an aircraft is terrorism in my book"

and please explain how pointing a laser is "Trying to bring down an aircraft."

The bush admin thanks you for your support.

RL

[AliciaKeyedUp]

43. I drive a car and even a split second of a laser could cause a crash

Hitting the pilots while they land has to be far worse.

And the Bush admin doesn't get my support. Neither do people who put hundreds at risk by attacking pilots.

[LynnTheDem]

46. And someone shining a laser on you would be

a stupid, foolhardy, negligent thing to do.

But it wouldn't be terrorism.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

48. Then it would only be assault and attempted murder

But when you do it wholescale and attack an airplane while landing, it's terror.

[LynnTheDem]

50. Why don't you get hold of the FBI and let them know they have it wrong.

Coz they're calling it "foolhardy and negligent" and "no connection to terrorism".

Good grief.

[RetroLounge]

56. "attempted murder"

requires intent.

Nice over-reaction.

RL

[RetroLounge]

55. It wasn't a car, it was a plane.

and not terror, so sayeth the FBI.

Nice try.

RL

[RetroLounge]

57. So you support the Patriot Act?

again, at least you are consistent.

RL

[deminflorida]

8. They should make that man play Naked Pyramid in front of his

entire family while they shine bright lights into his eyes.

That'll Teach Him!!

[NYC]

10. No connection to terrorism.

...The FBI acknowledged the incident had no connection to terrorism but called David Banach's actions "foolhardy and negligent."...

Thank god for the Patriot Act. At first, I thought it restricted our civil liberties. Now I see that my civil liberties were restricted because some people are foolhardy and negligent. Lucky me.

[Old and In the Way]

15. Did the FBI ever find the Anthrax perps?

Now that was a case of terrorism. Funny how perps using weapons grade anthrax from secure military labs that kills people can't be found, but they manage to nail a guy pointing a low power laser at a helicopter.

[podnoi]

16. Abuse of Patriot act?

Um... If there was no connection to terrorism isn't it an abuse of the Patriot act to use it in this case? Why isn't anyone saying anything? I thought that was the claim of supporters... that it would not be abused for "normal" crime??? I would think there are other laws that could be used to deal with this.

[annabanana]

21. the Patriot Act IS an abuse of the Constitution.............n/t

[ixion]

36. yep, the unPATRIOTic Act is unconstitutional

and should be repealed immediately.

[0007]

41. I don't understand why it haven't been repealed

[Just Me]

44. I firmly agree with the foregoing posts!!!!

This is an example of abuse of an unconstitutional act which should either be repealed or adjudged in breach of the constitution by SCOTUS!!!

It is incredible that "the people" are being corralled like this in a country which calls itself a democracy.

Incredible!!!

[LynnTheDem]

18. BUSH PROMISED the PA would NOT be used for ANY CRIME other than

terrorism.

Yet again, BUSH LIED.

And what are the senate rethugs saying about this??? 'Oh well, you should have known':

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the Justice Department, insisted lawmakers were fully aware the Patriot Act had far-reaching implications beyond fighting terrorism when the legislation was adopted in October 2001.

Corallo said federal law enforcement officials have no qualms about using the act to pursue an array of criminal investigations that have nothing to do with terrorism, such as child pornography, drug trafficking and money laundering.

http://reviewjournal.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=&urlID=8164533&fb=Y&partnerID=565

Gee..."libruls" were absolutely correct yet again when we worried over how the PA could and would be used for other than terrorism even when bushCartel & the rightwingnuts scoffed at that.

[annabanana]

22. "....lawmakers were fully aware"

That's why M. Moore had to READ IT TO THEM (I loved that scene in the ice cream truck)

[LynnTheDem]

30. WE were "fully aware"...but BUSH & CARTEL went around INSISTING

the PA would only be used for cases of terrorism.

The #1 reason so many states and cities and people opposed the PA was fear that it would NOT just be used for prosecuting terrorism cases!!!

Every frigging rightwingnut in the country was scoffing atus libruls and the ACLU for arguing that the PA was so wide in scope it would be far beyond just terrorism cases!

And NOW these bastards have the frigging NERVE, when they get caught doing EXACTLY what we were all worried they would do, the NERVE to say "well you KNEW we'd do that"!!!

A rushing river, swollen from floods...a turtle and a scorpion are on the bank. The scorpion needs to get to the other side, and asks the turtle to give him a ride over.

"Are you sure you won't sting me? If you do, we'll both drown" said the turtle.

"I promise I won't sting you" replied the scorpion.

Halfway across the river, the scorpion stings the turtle.

"WHY! Why did you sting me! Now we'll both drown!" cried the turtle.

"I'm a scorpion" said the scorpion.

"It's in my nature."

And that's the rethugs; it's in their nature.

[othermeans]

53. The Patriot Act reminds me of the time I was stopped by the cops

and they told me that they were investigating an armed robbery and would I give my consent for them to look for guns? "Sure go ahead," I told them "I don't have any guns."

Well the next thing I know they're dumping out my ashtray. "Hey I don't have any guns in my ash tray!" I said indignantly. "Shut up and step back from the car you gave consent!"

Luckily there wasn't anything left in my ashtray or anywhere else so they had to let me go. But another indication of what happens if you're not thinking.

[shadowknows69]

28. slowly but surely

they'll keep testing the fascist waters to set precedents that they can use later.

[neweurope]

19. The Bushistas are just too fast for everybody. No wonder they

have no opposition. There is no keeping up with them especially since most people are just too naive and trusting.

Most of you are discussing the laser here while the real news here is PATRIOT.

Remember:
1) PATRIOT was agreed upon because it was meant to be used on terrorists (that was the first mistake - "special" laws should NEVER be passed, under no circumstances!).

2) Just some days ago it was announced that some gang member was being tried under PATRIOT. NOT because he is a terrorist but because "gangs could do terrorist deeds". So for the first time the government decided it could define what a terrorist was. There was no outcry.

3) Now we have a poor man who is neither a terrorist nor a criminal. Whatever this laser beam story may be: Here now we have an ordinary citizen - "The FBI acknowledged the incident had no connection to terrorism" - an ordinary citizen I say, ordinary if "foolhardy and negligent", being tried under PATRIOT.

David Banach has made it into the history books. Remember my words in days to come.

My goodness wise up QUICKLY. Do you not see the writing on the wall?


-------------------

Remember Fallujah!

Bush to The Hague

[annabanana]

23. It's not that they are "too fast"..

It's that the American people haven't had the benefit of a free media for a few years, and the Democrats who's JOB IT IS to pay attention to this crap have lost their will!

(BTW.. shameless link to post re our weak kneed Dems here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1122651

[neweurope]

24. You are right about the media but the people at DU are well informed

and I get my news from the internet like most of you. Now that source of information is open to anybody - anybody willing. Those WILLING to stay blindfolded are not to be pitied but blamed.


-------------------

Remember Fallujah!

Bush to The Hague

[BiggJawn]

33. So there's what, 20,000 of us and HOW many Sheeple?

(the 20,000 figure takes into consideration that a lot of our vaunted 50,000+ members are not active or have become pizzas)

FAUX NOOZ has more viewers than DU, my friends....

[LynnTheDem]

31. And a mere hop to "American citizens can do terrorist deeds"

If an official of the US government can call the School Board a "terrorist organization", they're propably not going to mind calling DU a "terrorist organization".

And wham. Every member of DU to Gitmo.

***And before the freepers smile, that means YOU TOO. Or did you think the US government would scroll thru all the posts to see who was saying nice things about our dictator to exempt those REGISTERED MEMBERS?

If you thought this, you need to reread the PA; it says ANYONE having ANYTHING to do with ANY GROUP designated a terrorist organization. As in ALL REGISTERED MEMBERS and anyone who has EVER been a REGISTERED MEMBER at ANY time.

And don't forget, you don't get a lawyer or a trial to explain how you're actually a good bushbot simply spying on the terra-ist libruls.

And some day when you're bored, do a google search on The Enabling Act; compare it to bush's Patriot Act.

[salin]

25. Is this guy also responsible for the similar incidents

in Cleveland and Chicago? If not is there a movement among laser beam owners to point into cockpit of planes?

Really odd string of stories per the laser beams...

[WoodrowFan]

29. he blamed HIS DAUGHTER??

Initially, he claimed his daughter aimed the device at the helicopter, they said.


What a man! blame the kid! sheesh

[AngryAmish]

37. Way to throw your daughter under the bus!

Father-of-the-Year

[ixion]

35. so foolhardy and negligent = terror?

gee, tell me again how this act wasn't going to be abused? I agree what the guy did was stupid, but I don't like the concept of using the unPATRIOTic Act to charge him.

[Buns_of_Fire]

51. Terror = no. Federal crime = yes.

The Law of Unintended Consequences, it seems, applies here. The man got a new toy. He played with it, so it appears, in a foolhardy manner (although I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain about it being "foolhardy" when he was standing on the ground, several thousand feet below the aircraft, at what I would assume is a most inappropriate angle for "blinding" anyone).

Da Fedz also have a new toy, courtesy of daddy boosh**. And they're playing with it, too.

Gitmo isn't big enough to hold all the people in the U.S. who've done foolhardy and/or negligent things in their lives.

[proudbluestater]

40. Hope his family likes visiting Cuba n/t

[goforit]

58. OMG!!!.........Hasn't even gone to court and he's guilty!!!

We now live in an uncivilized/cave-man society!!!

[StaggerLee]

60. what if...

What if this is part of an elaborate plan to throw off the suspicion of the REAL reason that lasers are being pointed at airplanes?
I mean, does anybody really think that some regular shmoe on the ground can get get a good angle so that the beam can actually stike into a cockpit of a plane?
Yeah-I don't have a reason for why this would happen but it is being reported around the country.
Maybe if we read of other stories like this one (where the feds pick up people for these foolhardy and negligent acts) maybe then we can really start to suspect something much more sinister. :tinfoilhat:

And yes, the Patriot Act is anything but patriotic I agree.

[Moderator]

61. duplicate

locking

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1120817