Islamists on Net blame US for tsunami destruction

[emad]

By Habib Trabelsi in Dubai
Thursday, 06 January , 2005, 08:17

Islamists have had no trouble identifying the culprit in the tsunami disaster, using websites to blame the United States for the deaths of nearly 1,46,000 people in the earthquake and tidal waves that struck Asia.

"America got wind of the catastrophe before it occurred. The State Department, the Pentagon and the American naval base on the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia were alerted before the destructive earthquake," wrote one internet user under the name 'al-Madhri'. Claiming to cite an article by a Canadian academic, the writer accused Washington of 'not having alerted the authorities of the affected countries, which could have saved tens of thousands of innocent lives'. Discuss: Islamists are being silly in blaming US for the havoc

The number of people killed in the massive earthquake off Indonesia and tidal waves it unleashed across Asia on December 26 edged up towards 1,46,000 on Wednesday. Thousands more remain unaccounted for.

As to why the United States would have refrained from preventing a disaster on this scale if it could, 'al-Madhri' said: "The Americans don't care who or how many die. All that matters to them is to continue to rule the world."

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13643663

[phantom power]

1. Says a lot about how our "war for hearts and minds" is going.

The accusation itself is ridiculous, of course, but the sentiment that underlies it is nothing more than our own failed foreign policies coming home to roost.

[Bono71]

2. Reminds me of when Fawell stated the hurricanes in Miami were

caused by Gays. It seems we don't have a monopoly on religious idiots.

I think the statements by the Islamic cleric are shameful and dangerous. And by the way, he probably would have made them regardless of Iraq or not.

[Name removed]

171. Deleted message

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[Jesus H. Christ]

11. The accusation itself isn't that ridiculous.

The accusation isn't that the US caused the earthquake, but that they detected the tsunami but failed to warn people.

[krkaufman]

25. Yes, the accusation is ridiculous

The US should not be the world's designated policeman, nor do we have the responsibility to provide basic services for every other country in the world.

A better reason for the lack of preparation is that Indonesia is underdeveloped, and not moving forward fast enough because they're having to spend too much time and resources coping with a bunch of radicals trying to keep them in the Dark Ages.

If the radical Muslims want better cooperation from the world, then p'raps a change in their own behavior might be warranted.

[Jesus H. Christ]

31. No, it's not.

It's known that the US detected the tsunami hours before its struck.

It's still very unclear about whether they did all they could to warn everybody. There's nothing ridiculous about it. So far the only defense the US came up with is that they made some calls to some third world governments. That's seeing a man beating a woman outside your window and calling 911, and then 911 hangs up on you and you say "oh, well we did everything we could."

"If the radical Muslims want better cooperation from the world, then p'raps a change in their own behavior might be warranted."

Same goes for the US. Funny how "radical muslims" are giving more charity to the victims than the US.

[Bono71]

37. Umm...come again? Just how are "radical Muslims" giving more

than the US?

And don't you think it is a bit dangerous when people blame the United States for NATURAL DISASTORS? Could we have warned them? Who freaking knows?

[Jesus H. Christ]

84. Libya, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar...

are all giving more charity to the tsunami victims than the US.

Not sure about Iran or Syria, but I'd bet on it.

[Bono71]

88. I doubt it. Where is the proof. n/t

[Jesus H. Christ]

97. See, that's what you get when you listen to too much Limbaugh.

A bunch of racist propaganda that isn't even true, and the opportunity to look like a fool on message boards.

http://www.juancole.com/2005/01/middle-eastern-contributions-to.html

[Bono71]

119. The US destroys those contributions. n/t

[Jesus H. Christ]

137. How old are you?

Honest.

[Bono71]

139. 43.

[Jesus H. Christ]

141. Are you being honest?

If so, then why are you replying like a Jr. high school student?

"The US blew up those contributions?"

What kind of immature response is that?

[Bono71]

144. I wrote "destroys" and

Mr. Son of God, I am sorry you find it immature.

[Jesus H. Christ]

146. And?

Or did you mean "destroys" as in "beats."

If so, then you obviously didn't read the link or understand it. Also a sign of gross immaturity.

So if you're 43, what's your level of education?

[Bono71]

152. If you want my life story:.

1) I am a real estate developer in dc
2) I was born in Cuba and my mother brought my brother and I here in 1965. My father died in Cuba (we presume).
3) I grew up in Pennsylvania (Scranton).
4) I moved to live with an Aunt when I was 15 (Miami).
5) I went to UM.
6) I started with a development firm in Florida when I was 18 (part time) and then went out on my own when I was 28.
7) I develope small shopping centers, multifamily and some single family residential.
8) I have never voted for a republican president. Clinton was my favorite.
9) I got married to an Irish lass (Cork) who is about as non-political as one can possibly be (though she votes).
10) I found this website about 3 months ago and for some reason am addicted to it.

On edit: should probably add that I obtained a law degree from Tulane University between College and going out on my own.

There, I think you know the story, hope you're happy.

[Sterling]

174. NO shit, how does someone calling themselves Bono stay so in the dark

about what is going on in the world. You have to work at it to be this uninformed and obtuse.

[Zero Gravitas]

38. US not the only ones who knew

This whole argument is pathetically ridiculous. The US Government does not have a monopoly on seismographs. Many scientists around the world in many countries knew the approximate location and size of the earthquake within minutes (if not seconds) of it occurring. Many of them realized the potential for a tsunami. Indeed some Indonesian and Thai scientists tried to warn their own governments of the potential threat but had no luck reaching anyone at 9 on a Sunday morning. Even if they had been able to reach someone, little could have been done because of the lack of a warning system.

[Just Me]

103. It IS known the US detected,...no evidence that it warned or reported.

I'm not siding with radicals and it bugs the f*ck out of me that they have called out an inexcusable inaction on behalf of the US.

If the US would simply evidence who knew, who told and that information WAS passed on immediately, then there would exist no fact upon which radicals can con others.

Two other "facts" that, again, makes the US appear suspicious: no quick response to addressing the tragedy; major military forces being sent to a region covered under PNAC. Now, the American people may not be informed, but the rest of the world is certainly informed about the foregoing facts which simply draw additional suspicion about the intentions of the U.S. That circumstance IS the fault of the U.S.

[Violet_Crumble]

63. Indonesia...

Apparently Indonesia had the resources to be a member of the Pacific Tsunami warning system. Damn, that spoils the whole picture being painted. Considering the epicentre of the quake was just off Sumatra, and how far inland the tsunami reached, no country could have been prepared for what happened seeing as how they only had a few minutes warning...

The people of Aceh aren't 'radical Muslims', and it's the people of Aceh that the Indonesian military was until very recently 'coping with'. Why do you think international aid groups weren't allowed into the province prior to the tsunami? Could it have something to do with human rights abuses being carried out on the civilians in Aceh?

btw, the US has designated itself the worlds policeman, at least when it comes to telling other countries what to do. Check out the Bush Doctrine if yr in doubt. And while no-one's expecting that the US has to provide basic services for every other country in the world, what is expected that the US would pass on any warnings of impending natural disaster to other countries if the US becomes aware of it. US scientists in the Pacific did try to warn the affected countries of the tsunami but were hampered by first misjudging the magnitude of the quake, and then when it became clear how huge it was, not having a contact point in those countries to get the ball rolling. Anyone who thinks the US shouldn't have a responsibility to pass on warnings really isn't living in reality-land...

Violet...

[JaneDoughnut]

65. Also not the first time it's been voiced

There have been many people, in the US, complaining that a warning wasn't issued by the Asian governments in the fears that it would drive away tourists.

Ridiculous or not, the blame game will continue. Even though our international efforts could be better used improving warning and evacuation systems, rather than trying to blame one government or another for the death toll.

[Bono71]

145. Agree 100%. n/t

[radric]

3. Why not..

everything is else is the fault of the US. No matter who,what or how a thing happens it's always our fault :eyes:

[Benhurst]

4. Yeah. Maybe if BushAmerica would stop it's fascist meddling

around the globe, the U.S. would make a less tempting target for scape-goating.

[Bono71]

5. I doubt it...these guys need a boogey man, and unfrotunately

we are it. I don't want us in Iraq, but 9-11 happened before Afghanistan and Iraq...

I guess it comes with the territory of being the only remaining superpower. Maybe in 10 years, as China become an equal (or surpasses us) they will take more heat.

[Blue_Tires]

12. you do realize that

U.S. foriegn policy has been absolutely shitting on muslim nations for 50+ years before 9-11, right?? all their hatred and resentment didn't form in a vacuum overnight

[Bono71]

13. Not always...we helped Muslim in Yugoslavia.. certainly you

are not suggesting that 9-11 was ok?

And what about European nations? Last time I checked, Great Britain and France have played more of a role in the middle-east than we have over the last 5 decades? And what about Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, did they "shit" (your word) on Muslim countires?

[Jesus H. Christ]

17. I don't see how it's any worse

than what we did to Iraq.

[bobbyboucher]

21. I could swear that I heard the same excuses

on Limpdick's show a thousand times. Am I wrong? Stop parroting.

[Blue_Tires]

24. starting with (and probably before) Mossadegh was taken out

of power in Iran in 1953, most u.s. presidencies have interfered illegally with muslim countries to some extent...I know that other european nations have had similar policies (Soviets in Afghanistan, and even the Brits helped us out in Iran in 1953)...but that doesn't absolve us from guilt...

and NO, 9-11 was NOT OK, but if you look at the high (or low)lights of foreign policy in the mideast, and our relationship with Israel, you can see how something like this was brewing for a long time...it also didn't help that the white house was suspiciously asleep during the months leading up to it *COUGHCOUGH*lihop*COUGHCOUGH

[The Stranger]

14. THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN IRAQ AND 911

Am I really reading that on this forum?

[Jesus H. Christ]

19. Look at the source article.

tell me you can't see the Islamophobic propaganda in that.

[Bono71]

39. When did I say there was? n/t

[The Stranger]

94. Here:

I don't want us in Iraq, but 9-11 happened before . . . Iraq...

Some weeks ago I was correcting another poster's statements clearly implying that Iraq had some connection to 911. Was that you?

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bono71]

126. No it wasn't me...and that statement in no way was meant to

imply Iraq = 9-11...

[bobbyboucher]

20. Let me give you a clue,

the Islamic terrorists are your bogey-man. Quit parroting.

[Bono71]

40. Parroting what? Are you suggesting these guys think

rationally? They need a scapegoat, and unfortunately we are it. We are blamed by these jack-offs for every conceivable ill in the world. For Chrissakes, they are blaming us for our reaction to a natural disastor. This has been going on for years.

If the US didn't exist, it would be another country.

[bobbyboucher]

46. You mean "Parroting whom", don't you?

Sssssqqqqqqqwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Polly want a clue. Ssssssssssqqqqqqwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!!!!

Who's your scapegoat? Sssssssssssqqqqqqqqqwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaak!!

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

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[Jesus H. Christ]

66. Funny...

coming from a guy who still thinks Iraq was involved in 9-11.

[bobbyboucher]

69. He doesn't know he's

it.

[Bono71]

72. You don't realize you're it. n/t

[bobbyboucher]

76. Whatev.

I got you, fair and square.

[Bono71]

70. WHERE DID I WRITE THAT???

Jesus, I hate you, Jesus. (Jesus, forgive me for taking your name in vain 3 times).

[Jesus H. Christ]

80. Even more funny.

After calling somebody "clueless."

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Stranger]

96. "These guys" is beginnning to sound like a generalization based on race or

religion. And the statements attributed to "these guys" are demeaning.

Now tell me what's really going on here.

[Bono71]

98. These guys = the fanatics, thanks. n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

115. He means you are parroting right wing talking points

and being rather transparent at it, too.

[Bono71]

143. I don't think I am. n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

114. Um

do a little reading up on the US's involvement in OTHER activities before 9/11. We ain't so squeaky clean.

And it goes back YEARS.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[jmcgowanjm]

7. The Empire must take the Blame if it takes the Credit

Foreknowledge of A Natural Disaster:

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO412C.html

The US was pointedly asked to keep it's
military out of Indian Waters.

How is it that we had two fleets up and ready to
go- the Expeditionary Strike Group 5 and the CVN
Abraham Lincoln and her escort .

US Navy has two 1,000 bed hospital ships, the 'Comfort' and
the 'Mercy', but neither one was dispatched. 

[Just Me]

107. Yup. Why wouldn't THAT draw suspicion?

1) Knowledge of the earthquake affecting PNAC hotspot
2) NO notification to the affected
3) NO immediate humanitarian response
4) Ready the ships and troops, offer $15M
5) Offer $35M
6) Send ships/troops, distract and up aid to $350M
7) TONS of media coverage on humanitarian tragedy
8) NO media attention to major military deployment

Naw,...those facts shouldn't draw ANY suspicion!!!

[KurtNYC]

10. That is a RW stereotype of liberal attitudes

Informed people can sort out shades of grey. The nature of politicians is to try to make political headway when ANYTHING occurs. That our enemies want to spin this against us is not surprising but addressing it with a RW talking point seems lame.

[CatholicEug]

16. Thank you!

You finally get it. No matter happens, blame America. It's the only way. :)

[bobbyboucher]

26. That's really quite

typical. Surely you know the involvement of the United States in the private affairs of other nations, or are you just pretending to be ignorant of that fact.

Keep believing what your told by Ruse, they'll guide you to the next 9/11 with haste.

[Jesus H. Christ]

32. That's the kind of crazy logic you get

from the Blame Islam Firsters.

[bobbyboucher]

35. While I'm no Islamist apologist,

and foreknowlege of the earthquake is an almost certain impossibility, but I have no doubt that the tsunami was known about in advance and we did warn our interests that were in harms way.

As for knowing about the earthquake, the Islamist spokesperson probably was speaking of the greater impact of the day, the tsunami, which we did know about (scientific certainty) and did not warn everyone we could, apparently.

As for the American Apologist crowd, I just can't wait to hear them spout the same old lines "They hate us for our freedom" horseshit when Islamic terrorists pull off another 9/11 in about 10 or 15 years, or sooner. To those I ask, what positive steps did we take to diminish the despair, the poverty, the corruption, the disparity of wealth, and especially the represive regimes that we now call our allies, all the factors that help breed terrorists? So far, all we have done is slaughter people, raze cities and terrorize populations. Not a good start.

[bobbyboucher]

23. Thanks for parroting

Ruse Limpdick (except around hunky dudes), Shemp Hammity, Dildo Reilly, and all the rest of the Hitler wannabees.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Mandate My Ass]

55. Wow, even for an uncalled for ad hominem

one of several you've posted on this thread, that was really pathetic.

Insecurity got you down? Or is it that it has been amply demonstrated that the pot is the same exact color as the kettle? :shrug:

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[Mandate My Ass]

59. No he attacked your obviously faulty reasoning

you attacked his manhood (How very adolescent of you) because you don't have a reasonable comeback.

Oh, wow, the F-bomb. I'm impressed. You rawk! :dunce:

[Bono71]

60. Kewl, I am glad you, like, liked it...

There is no faulty reasoning here...it is a sad day when our country (warts and all) is attacked for not warning an entire region of an impending natural disastor...that is downright frightening. Did it ever occur to you that the Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia have their own systems in place...and those systems failed too? What about Austrailia? It's in their backyard after all? How many nations warned us about the impending hurricanes?

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jesus H. Christ]

82. It's a blame the victim argument.

"that woman shouldn't have been dressed like a slut if she didn't want to be raped."

Funny how they talk about the moral superiority of the United States.

[Bono71]

86. FIne, don't blame the victim, but blame THE STORM....

not this country...nice logic.

[Jesus H. Christ]

90. If you were watching somebody get raped

would you do anything to stop it or just sit there and watch?

[Bono71]

100. The question is, could I do something about it. This was the

worst humanitarian disastor of all time, and we have now pledged a tonn of aid (along with the rest of the world). Why some people want to dwell on possible problems that would not have solved anything is ludicrous in my opinion and dangerous.

[Jesus H. Christ]

108. In the hypothetical situation, sure, you're ten feet away.

No it's up to an investigation to determine whether or not the US did enough. There's plenty of precedence for the US not acting enough on warnings.

"Why some people want to dwell on possible problems that would not have solved anything is ludicrous in my opinion and dangerous."

Better warnings could have saved thousands. And to people who care about foreigners, that's a lot more than "anything."

" we have now pledged a tonn of aid"

Well, not much. There's plenty of countries, third world countries that are giving more. It's kind of like Ebenezer Scrooge throwing a lump of coal in the stove and patting himself on the back for being so charitable.

[tkmorris]

110. That is precisely the point Bono

COULD you do anything about it? If you could, but didn't, then you have some 'splaining to do.

The charge is being made that US officials knew and could have done something about it, but chose not to. I don't know how much truth there is to the charge but if it is true they have some 'splaining to do as well. You are arguing that the US has no responsibility to act EVEN IF THEY DID KNOW AND COULD HAVE WARNED THEM, apparently because it isn't our job to watch out for anyone but us. That's a pretty ugly position to take mate.

[Bono71]

111. That is not my position...

1) I find it hard to believe that the US refused to take action if it knew about something.

2) It is possible someone (the US) was asleep at the wheel

3) What I find disturbing is, no other countries and their "culpability" is being discussed. This is frightening because it shows the animosity some have towards the US.

[jmcgowanjm]

112. the US refused to take action if it knew about something.

PearlHarbor-"...everything that the Japanese were planning to
do was known to the United States..." ARMY BOARD,
1944

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

Langton, James. "CIA Fights to Hide Its Invisible Ink." Electronic Telegraph, 11 Apr. 1999. <http://www.telegraph.co.uk>

"CIA lawyers say that classified First World War documents
must not be made public because its spies still use the ink
to send secret messages....

On the heels of the German announcement
to
renew unrestricted submarine warfare on February 1,
1917,
the British, on February 24, revealed the Zimmerman
Telegram

http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=old&doc=61

In October, 1955, the South Vietnamese people were asked
to choose between Bo Dai, the former Emperor of Vietnam,
and Diem for the leadership of the country. Colonel
Edward Lansdale suggested that Diem should provide
two ballot papers, red for Diem and green for Bao Dai.
Lansdale hoped that the Vietnamese belief that red
signified good luck whilst green indicated bad fortune,
would help influence the result.

When the voters arrived at the polling stations they found
Diem's supporters in attendance. One voter
complained afterwards: "They told us to put the red ballot
into envelopes and to throw the green ones into
the wastebasket. A few people, faithful to Bao Dai, disobeyed.
As soon as they left, the agents went after them, and
roughed them up... They beat one of my relatives to
pulp."

http://www.politics.ie/modules.php?name=XForum&file=post.reply&fid=88&tid=2243&repquote=r%7C46896

[Bono71]

116. And that is relevant, how? n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

120. AH! Here's your problem:

"I find it hard to believe that the US refused to take action if it knew about something."

Do you always ascribe nothing but benevolent motives to the US? Are we just as pure as the driven snow?

Wow. Talk about naive.

[Bono71]

130. Naive? Good grief...

you are seriously arguing that for some unknown reason, the US didn't warn other countries about a natural disastor...as if those countries don't have the abilities to predict such events (in fatc, some attempted to warn the affected countries to no avail).

The point is, we are helping now...get a life...

[Bouncy Ball]

133. You seem to think

the US only has good motivations. THAT'S what I was pointing out. And yes, that is INCREDIBLY naive.

[Bono71]

134. Never wrote that, but thanks for putting word into my statement n/t

[jmcgowanjm]

140. Yuo did write:the US refused to take action if it knew about something

See above post for items US knew about
and did nothing.

[Bono71]

142. I'm not sure I understand what you wrote. n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

150. Right here brainiac:

"I find it hard to believe that the US refused to take action if it knew about something."

Um, that means you don't think the US EVER has any kind of ulterior motive? That if we know about something like this we are ALWAYS going to say something?

Which assumes we always have good motives.

HA!

[Bono71]

155. My god man, learn to read...

You jump from this situation...to the US IS ALWAYS benevolent?

Seriously, are you brain dead?

[Bouncy Ball]

159. YOU FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE

THE US WOULD KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING AND **NOT** SAY SOMETHING MEANS YOU FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE YOUR COUNTRY WOULD EVER ACT IN A LESS THAN HONORABLE WAY.

Explain your way out of that.

[Bono71]

162. Lol...logic is not your strong suit is it....

show me where I wrote "ever..."

Not to good on the ole SAT's were ya?

[Bouncy Ball]

165. Good try.

You still haven't answered my question.

And you must be the one with reading comprehension problems.

When a sentence does not use a time qualifier such as "often," "never," or "always" it is ASSUMED the person means EVER or ALWAYS.

Look it up.

Now. Seeing as you put NO time qualifier in your original statement, that means you meant EVER or ALWAYS.

So you want to actually address what I have said or would you like to play more word games?

DO YOU THINK YOUR COUNTRY EVER HAS LESS THAN HONORABLE INTENTIONS?

You can't answer, can you? You know the answer is YES, but you can't bring your freeper self to admit it!

[Bono71]

166. Of course it does...

dude I am a cuban----see embargo----


The original topic (some 14,000 posts ago) was "Islamists" blaming the US for not warning the affected countries. I think this is crazy.

On edit: as far as using the word "Never" or some other time qualifier, in case you haven't noticed...this is a message board, not a formal writing forum. If you would like a treatise on these topics, go to the library.

On edit dos: what the hell is "freeper self?"

[Bouncy Ball]

167. Right, it's a MESSAGE BOARD

and seeing as we have no tone of voice or facial expression to aid in meaning, it is all the more important to be clear and concise when you communicate on a message board.

Maybe you need to make a trip to the library.

You think it's crazy? Ok, so what? You gonna change their minds or something?

You and I have very little control over what other countries or groups of people think about the US.

And a retarded fuck for a president who just burns through political goodwill like it's going out of style (he did that his first term) doesn't exactly help matters much, does it?

[Bono71]

168. Well, at least we agree

Bush is a retarded fuck.

On edit dos: And I still don't know what "freeper self" means...though I admit, I am probably dating myself.

[Bouncy Ball]

169. Right.

Just keeeep playing innocent. You aren't fooling anyone.

[Bouncy Ball]

118. THE POINT IS

you REALLY can't control what some Muslims think halfway around the world, can ya?

So why are you beating your head against the wall about it HERE?

Like I said above if it burns you up so badly, go join up, answer the call of Uncle Sugar, they sure do need some help over there in Iraq. Maybe you'll get lucky and get to kill a few!

:eyes:

[Bono71]

128. Not beating my head against the wall...and I am against the war in

Iraq...

The initial poster commented on the subject, and my original point was exactly yours...there will always be some who think we are the cause of all evil...nothing we can really do about it.

[Mandate My Ass]

87. You said it, JC

So very, very touchy to any whiff of criticism, it's patently obvious why.

The way this discussion has descended to a junior high school level, I'm waiting for a round of "Your Momma" jokes.

[Bono71]

101. Your momma.

[Bouncy Ball]

117. Bono

Whatchoo gonna do about it? Why don't you go down to your local recruiting office, slap on some BDUs and get out there to Iraq so you can kill you some Islamofascists who hate America so much?

Go on, it's virtually painless!

[Bono71]

131. Uhh...no thanks...I've done my time. n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

132. Riiiiiiight.

[Bono71]

136. And you've done yours, I suppose?

[Bouncy Ball]

149. And you know it's stupid to claim

military service on an anonymous internet board, I suppose?

You have no way of proving it without totally revealing your identity and even THEN there's no way of proving that's who is typing at your computer.

You fell for it, I did not.

[Bono71]

156. Fell for it? Lol...were you sitting at your computer going...

AHA! I got him!!!

[Bouncy Ball]

160. You said you already did your service

and yet you cannot prove it. Which means there is no point in having said it.

I'm sure the reserves would be more than happy to have ya!

[Bouncy Ball]

113. You're still here, huh?

[aikido15]

6. I read this orignal story in a Canadian paper...

I can believe it..nothing this country does surprises me anymore, whether it be good or bad. :eyes:

[jmcgowanjm]

8. Claiming to cite an article by a Canadian academic

Oh those Canadian academics-
what will they do next-

George Monbiot asks in the Guardian:

".. one obvious question recurs. Why must the relief of
suffering, in this unprecedentedly prosperous world, rely on
the whims of citizens and the appeals of pop stars
and comedians? Why, when extreme poverty could be
made history with a minor redeployment of public finances,
must the poor world still wait for homeless people in the
rich world to empty their pockets?

"The obvious answer is that governments have other
priorities. And the one that leaps to mind is war. If the money
they have promised to the victims of the tsunami still falls
far short of the amounts required, it is partly because
the contingency fund upon which they draw in times of crisis
has been spent on blowing people to bits in
Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tsunami/story/0,15671,1384245,00.html

[emad]

9. Tsunami spawns conspiracy theories: Japan Today

Thursday, January 6, 2005 at 12:59 JST
HONG KONG — Just 11 days after Asia's tsunami catastrophe, conspiracy theorists are out in force, accusing governments of a cover-up, blaming the military for testing top-secret eco-weapons or aliens trying to correct the Earth's "wobbly" rotation.

In bars and Internet chatrooms around the world questions are being asked, with knowing nods and winks, about who caused the submarine earthquake off Sumatra on Dec 26, and why governments were so slow to act in the minutes and hours before tsunamis slammed into their shores, killing almost 150,000.

"There's a lot more to this. Why is the U.S. sending a warship? Why is a senior commander who was in Iraq going there?" whispered designer Mark Tyler, drinking a pint of beer at a bar in Hong Kong's Wan Chai district.

"This happened exactly a year after Bam," said Tyler, referring to the earthquake in Iran which killed 30,000 on Dec 26 last year. "Is that a coincidence? And there was no previous seismic activity recorded in Sumatra before the quake, which is very strange," he said, nodding somberly.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=7&id=323964


THAT'S IT....blame the ALIENS

[CatholicEug]

15. Wasn't Islamic civilization

once the pride of the world? I mean, during the so-called Middle Ages of Europe ... weren't they the leaders of scientific thought?

Oh well.

Besides, I have it on good authority that the tsunami was caused by Howard Stern when he was shooting his upcoming "Fartman" movie.

[BiggJawn]

18. Yeah, but that was before the Fundies got in control of things..

You know, everything "Western" is bad and all that...Except for automatic weapons and explosives, those are OK...

Here come the new Dark Ages...

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jesus H. Christ]

30. Did you read the link?

All they claim is that the US didn't give an adequate warning, not that the US caused the quake.

Oh right, you again. Well then you probably did read it but are giving out misinformation anyway.

[plasticsundance]

41. Jesus H. Christ ...

The poo-pooers are not going to listen to your calm rational. All these poo-pooers do is hold on to their delusional concept of what they think their nation represents, and keep pounding the same contrived and silly mantras. And just like this current Bush Administration, they don't read or respond to what an opposite view point actually states. They also never respond directly, or even mention, for that matter, to what the opposite view has stated or written. It might disrupt the delusion that they're feverishly stroking, with no curiosity or regard to historical facts.

Hell ... the ideas and sentiments these poo-pooers represent are the same ones that have lead the US into the mess it finds itself today. They just don't get it. The majority of the world does not see us in the same light as many here apparently see us. That tells you something

That's also the reason the poo-pooers only respond with terse remarks. The poo-pooers are bad standup comedians, not thinkers. In addition, they're not so much defending the principles that this nation was founded upon, but rather a way of life pawning itself off with misnomers to what the actual reality has demonstrated.

[Jesus H. Christ]

42. Yeah I know.

But I started the reply before I realized who it was I was replying to. I figured I might as well finish it.

[Bouncy Ball]

122. Very good post

plastic.

I especially like this: "It might disrupt the delusion that they're feverishly stroking, with no curiosity or regard to historical facts."

You hit the nail on the head with that.

Cognitive dissonance is painful and humans tend to avoid it mightily.

[Demeter]

54. You Know, Once The US Was The Pride of the World, Too

Then we got taken over by a cult that systematically dismantled, destroyed and subverted everything that made US the miracle it was.

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi!

[Cocoa]

27. Islamists are as nutty as DUers

or almost as nutty.

[TahitiNut]

106. Huh? You make that sound like a bad thing.

:silly:

[KamaAina]

29. Look! Kooky tsunami conspiracy theories!

NY Times, Fux News, here ya go. I expect front-page, above-the-fold, 24-7 coverage on this, guys.

Oh, right, it's mcuh easier to bash progressives </sarcasm>

[radric]

33. Tin foil hats must have been offered for sale..

by Al-Jazeera the last year or two. Sounds like they sold out :D

[Jesus H. Christ]

34. What's this have to do with Al Jazeera.

I find it ironic that the link everybody's using as evidence of how kooky those muslims are has both Islamophobic terms and a like to an astrology page.

[bobbyboucher]

36. You're going to be a real

asset to the discussions around here. Thanks for contributing.

[RuleofLaw]

43. The Discovery Channel

had a program on yesterday about the Tsunami. It turns out that the Tsunami Warning Center on Hawaii knew about the earth quake before anyone else, but did not know who to contact in the Asian region.

[Jesus H. Christ]

44. Sounds like gross incompetence to me.

Definitely deserves a major investigation.

There's too many people dismissing this too quickly.

[plasticsundance]

45. What I don't understand ...

We have this great outcry to give global support for the victims of the Tsunami, with even * stating that it is a global effort, but somehow the US, if the story is true, does not have an global responsibility to use its vast technology to give early warning to those affected nations prior to the tragedy.

Was there a fear of creating a panic, and perhaps even crime and looting during the chaos of an evacuation? My understanding is that it took two hours for the wave to hit the land. How much time was needed, and when did US devices pick up and have measurements of the earthquake.

I'm surprised that some of the DU-ers sound like the following:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200501050006

We shouldn't be sending as much as we're sending. Bush has a lot of gall writing a check for 135 million dollars. This is more a UNICEF deal, it's a U.N. deal, it's a Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, George Soros, Bill Clinton bleeding-heart-liberal deal. I don't want to send them any money. You know, a few airplanes with some medical supplies and a little lip service would have been fine for me.

[Jesus H. Christ]

51. From what I heard, it was 2 to nine hours

from the time of the quake to the tsunami hitting land.

Seems like plenty of time to me, which is why I think an investigation is called for. Like I said, personally I think it's just gross inompetence.

[Xithras]

56. Not really

The Pacific Tsunami Warning Network was built and staffed by the United States for one purpose...to protect the PACIFIC coasts from a repeat of the 1964 quake that killed people from Alaska to California. The detection buoys are simply the first link in an established network that stretches from the middle of the ocean to the desks of local law enforcement in every coastal town and county in the US. When a tsunami is detected, everyone knows exactly who to call and which alerts to send.

Contrary to oft-spoken belief, we DO have the ability to contact other nations that we detect tsunamis heading towards, but the entire network is tuned towards the Pacific ocean. If we detect a large quake generated tsunami in the Pacificour phone trees have local and national contact numbers for emergency response facilities in nations from Micronesia to Japan, China, or Canada.

The problem in this case was simply that the tsunami was detected OUTSIDE of the area the network was designed to monitor, so there was no protocol in place to quickly contact those nations and perform the evacuations. Despite that, we DID manage to contact some areas, including Thailand, before the wave hit. Those governments themselves were either unable or unwilling to propogate the message to their citizens.

[Jesus H. Christ]

64. That's to quick a dismissal.

It's kind of like saying "hey, I called 9-11." I did all I could to help that woman bleeding to death on the sidewalk in front of me.

[jmcgowanjm]

135. ANYTHING TO STOP THE BLEEDING-Limited Hangout

The political fallout from the various Administration torture-memos -- those prepared for Rumsfeld, Ashcroft and
the White House, that earlier had been leaked to the
press -- was simply too damaging. Something had to be
done.

Bernard Weiner

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0406/S00272.htm

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bono71]

50. Better yet, If Amerikkkan Thug Republikkkans had only

built a gigantic seawall, four thousand feet high/ thick, this disastor would have been avoided. God, I hate Amerikkka.

[Jesus H. Christ]

52. Or they could have just warned people.

It could have saved thousands of lives.

Do you think its funny to joke about thousands of people being killed? Do you make jokes about 9-11 too?

[Bono71]

53. Yep, I think 9-11 was he-haw-hysterical...what a riot...

Did you know that none of the jews went to work on 9-11 and that the Amerikkkan RethugliKKAN Zionist presidents knew about it in advance?

Of course I feel an extreme amount of sympathy for the people killed in those two tragedies. Don't be silly. The initial post was about the rumors flying around the world about how, when it comes right down to it, the US is somehow culpable in this NATURAL DISASTOR. That is frightening.

[Jesus H. Christ]

61. No, the rumors flying around...

are that the US new there was a tsunami and didn't do enough about it in warning people.

The first part is a confirmed fact and the latter hasn't been determined true or false. To dismiss it out of hand is disgusting.

Like I was saying, maybe you should have read the link because nobody is saying the US caused the quake. The only people who are saying that the US caused the earthquake are republican trolls.

And I think you're well aware of republican trolls.

[Bono71]

68. I read the post and understand what the "uproar" is about and

I still find it frigtening that of all the countries on the planet, we are somehow singled out as the one that should have warned these countries (which are in another f*cking hemisphere, for crying out loud). Why aren't these people pissed off at Austrailia or other countries? What about Indonesia...you're telling me they don't have their own warning system????

[Jesus H. Christ]

78. Wow, another hemisphere.

It's so hard to communicate with somebody in another hemisphere!

No, Indonesia probably doesn't have a warning system. Blaming the victim, are we?

[Bono71]

83. Jesus...

Seriously, did it occur to you that Indonesia had the resources to be a member of the Pacific Tsunami warning system (but negelected to do so?). Considering the epicentre of the quake was just off Sumatra, and how far inland the tsunami reached, no country could have been prepared for what happened seeing as how they only had a few minutes warning...

The people of Aceh aren't 'radical Muslims', and it's the people of Aceh that the Indonesian military was until very recently 'coping with'. Why do you think international aid groups weren't allowed into the province prior to the tsunami? Could it have something to do with human rights abuses being carried out on the civilians in Aceh?

[Jesus H. Christ]

89. Are you accusing the Indonesian governments of human rights abuses?

Funny that somebody from the US would whine about human rights abuses of other countries, given that the US is so reknowned for its own human rights abuses.

But regardless of the government of Indonesia, it still doesn't mean that the US wasn't responsible for warning the people of Indonesia, or Sri Lanka, or Thailand, etc.

[Bono71]

95. Ok, you win. All of the world's problems fall on our shoulders and

when and if we fail, we should be punished accordingly. Happy now?

[Jesus H. Christ]

99. There's something called "accountability"

I know that's probably a foreign word to you. I recommend a dictionary.

[Bono71]

102. If we are going to be held "accountable" for something like this,

we are truly screwed.

[Bouncy Ball]

127. With incredible power

comes incredible responsibility.

You want something for nothing, don't you? You want the US to be able to continue to strut around like a gamecock, chest all puffed out, spreading our "democracy" even where no one asked for it, threatening the world (even without words) with the largest arsenal of weaponry in the world, you want us to go on beating our chests and never letting the world forget just how wonderful and incredible and beautiful and POWERFUL we are, but you don't like it when some people accuse us of something?

Get a grip. You don't get something for nothing. When you're the biggest guy on the block, people tend to look at you when shit happens. It's a fact.

Now put the big girl panties on and get over it. You can't have it both ways.

[Bouncy Ball]

129. Oh and as far as being truly screwed

I agree, yes we are.

But you can blame your president the retard for that.

[Bono71]

138. Should I blame Carter and Clinton as well?

[Jesus H. Christ]

147. They didn't fuck things up like Bush.

Why do you ask?

[Bouncy Ball]

148. Please note he didn't deny

my use of the words "YOUR president the retard."

Hey Bono.....let's imagine that Carter and Clinton were still part of the same power structure. Of course they were, right? I'm not the one who thinks my country has done no wrong, you are.

Ok, now imagine Carter and Clinton and every other president in the past lighting little flames here and there and they cause these little smouldering tiny fires.

Now imagine bush coming in with a blowtorch and burning the whole damn thing down.

Get it now?

[Jesus H. Christ]

151. Well it's pretty obvious isn't it?

I mean he's not fooling anybody.

[Bouncy Ball]

153. Shrug.

I just thought maybe HE thought he was.

Cognitive dissonance is SO very painful.

[Violet_Crumble]

105. That was my post he copied...

..except for the first sentence. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1126218#1127344 That sentence was all their own work and completely wrong as has been everything else they said in this thread. They also didn't bother copying the part of my post where I said that of course the US has a responsibility to try to warn other countries of impending natural disasters if it becomes aware of something about to happen...

But yeah, I was accusing the Indonesian govt of human rights abuses....

Violet...

[Jesus H. Christ]

109. Like I was saying, the Indonesian goverment is irrelevant...

to this particular discussion.

It's the hypocrasy that cracks me up.

LOL, and the plagiarism. Where's the accountability when you need it most?

[Princess Turandot]

154. Amnesty International does...

"REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA
Head of state and government: Megawati Sukarnoputri
Death penalty: retentionist
International Criminal Court: not signed

In Nanggroe Aceh Darussalam (NAD) and Papua provinces (formerly known as Aceh and Irian Jaya respectively), the human rights situation remained grave, with hundreds of reported cases of extrajudicial execution, “disappearance”, torture and unlawful arrest. The government’s failure to take decisive action to end human rights violations undermined efforts to resolve the conflicts resulting from long-standing demands for independence. Impunity was reinforced by the failure of trials of the ad hoc Human Rights Court on East Timor to satisfactorily resolve serious crimes, including crimes against humanity, committed in 1999 in East Timor (renamed Timor-Leste in 2002). At least nine prisoners of conscience were sentenced to terms of imprisonment and four others were awaiting trial at the end of the year. Human rights defenders suffered human rights violations, including extrajudicial execution, torture and unlawful arrest."

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Idn-summary-eng

[Bouncy Ball]

125. UM, HELLO???

The US butts its nose into the business of more countries. We beat our chests about being the lone superpower in the world, we NEVER LET ANYONE FORGET HOW AMAZING AND INCREDIBLE AND POWERFUL WE ARE

and then you are surprised when we get blamed for shit?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

OMG, if it weren't so sad, that would be seriously funny.

[bobbyboucher]

71. Well aware.

Personally.

[Bono71]

75. 1

[Bouncy Ball]

124. It's spelled

disaster.

Not disastor.

And more sarcasm from it. Why do you keep using KKK in your spelling? A favorite organization of yours?

[bobbyboucher]

67. Hey Jesus H., these guys are a laugh riot aren't they?

They should get work in Vegas. George Carlin is taking some time off, I'd bet an audition would surely bring fame and fortune to these two jokesters. Look out America, here come the Joking Parrots.

Either that or they can submit resumes to be Director of Construction at the next Burning Man, cause they can construct some enormous strawmen, no?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbyboucher]

77. Who says I'm cajun, waterboy.

What is the weight of a gallon of water?

[Jesus H. Christ]

79. They aren't funny.

Like I said, about as funny as jokes about 9-11.

I wonder if they think they're fooling anybody.

[bobbyboucher]

81. I think they do,

uh huh.

I like the way you talk, uh huh.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jesus H. Christ]

91. You've pretty much proven my point.

nt

[Bono71]

93. I forgot to add the crucifixion as my all-time favorite comedy

winner.

[CatholicEug]

173. No offense Jesus

but I think the issue is that we're being blamed. Despite what some wackos here believe, there are those of us who love America AND who despise illegal or wrongful interference in other nations.

But give me a break -- blaming America for the tsunami is a sign of ignorance ... the kooky Islamicist version of saying there was a gunman on the grassy knoll. And that's shameful, because Islamic society used to be the leader in rational thought.

[Bouncy Ball]

123. Oh, look

it's being sarcastic. How sophisticated of it.

[AlbizuX]

121. this is as silly as Falwell's 9/11 condemnation

nuts on every side of the religious divide.

[Princess Turandot]

157. Why is no one mentioning that India was also well aware of the

earthquake but made little effort to tell anyone even in their own country that it might lead to a problem, because they were concerned abt 'issuing a false alarm'? India built an atomic bomb; I'm sure they have sophisticated seismological capabilities.They knew abt the earthquake as soon as the US did.

(After the main earthquake, they did issue alarms related to aftershocks, which turned out to be unnecessary.)

This is the bi-polar DU at its finest (with sincere apologies to people who are bipolar.)

"The US knew the tsunami would hit those areas and could have warned them with enough time for people to escape."

Even if that is true, which I don't believe it is, there seems to be a fair amount of concurrence that with no emergency escape plan in place in the region for tsunamis, and limited if any ability for the governments of these countries to alert there own citizens, there was probably no real way to prevent this tragedy at this moment in time.

"Why is the US sending air craft carriers to the region? We're beginning another Iraq."

Maybe because aircraft carriers can provide take-off and landing facilities to areas which had no functioning airports? Maybe because they have large medical facilities?

"Why aren't we sending more money?"
"We are only sending money as propaganda."

And of course:

"No Muslim could ever spout an irrational idea. Only Americans can."

The sad reality here is that the region counted on the historical lack of tsunamis in the Indian Ocean, had no emergency response plan in place for an area with a wide variety of difficulty of geographical access and were the victims of a quirk of nature.

[Bono71]

158. Because we only hate Amerikkka. n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

161. What's your fascination with the KKK?

Might I suggest that if you love the KKK so much there are other forums that would be far better suited to your interests than this one?

[Boosterman]

178. Well said n/t

[peacetalksforall]

163. I believe they are right - this had to be detected - they had hours

for it to hit Sri Lanka, India, and Somalia, plus India and Bangladesh. Even Myanmar.

We have every reason to mistrust our government.

If they can read a license plate from a spy satellite - and read earthquakes all over the world - and they knew that a tsumani hit Indonesia and Thailand...the others had to know.

Thailand scientists are getting blamed in this country. Can Thailand take all of the blame?

In addition, isn't someone in Saudi Arabia saying the reason is U.S. and Israeli nuclear testing?

[Bono71]

164. Everyone would know if there were nuclear tests...

you can't hide that these days, I would think.

[plasticsundance]

175. Good point:

higher class wrote:

"If they can read a license plate from a spy satellite - and read earthquakes all over the world - and they knew that a tsumani hit Indonesia and Thailand...the others had to know."

Yes ... and that is stated in the article:

"It's not possible they were all tourists," added the internet user. "Certainly we cannot blame the United States for the quake which caused the tsunamis, but we have the right to be amazed by the eagerness of America to install all means of spying and early warning whenever it has the slightest suspicion about the presence of what it calls terrorists," said Kuwaiti Islamist Hamed Abdullah al-Ali in an online article.

I think that is a valid point, and demonstrates a reasoning beyond the infantile I-love-my-country and all those religious fanatics are kooks.

[Dcitizen]

170. Conspiracy is illogical physic law

Nuke could break Bermuda plate into pieces and push surrounding away from the epicenter, but neither the explosion's force could pull Bermuda plate with Sumatra island westward 50+ meters, nor pulled India plate's rock sphere eastward down into the mantle in subduction zone.

[ashmanonar]

176. doesn't anybody know what conspiracy really means? *sigh*

please, please, stop using repug talking points (damn conspiracy nuts, theyr'e all crazy) and concentrate on the facts.

if you're saying that some people who theorize on human intervention in geologic affairs are wrong, that's one thing...it's another to state that it's a "criminal agreement" (which is what conspiracy REALLY means.

[emad]

172. At a Russian Orthodox Xmas Party at their embassy last night

one of their attaches in the commercial division said that former KGB renegades in Europe were flaming this story as a kind of national sport.

Maybe their perspective on problems in Chechnia is getting somewhat imbalanced....

[JoFerret]

177. ...and Falwell blamed feminists

pagans and homosexuals for 9/11.
Nuts from the same twisted tree.