Scowcroft Skeptical Vote Will Stabilize Iraq -WaPo

[Rose Siding]

Friend of Bush Family Joins Pessimists

Brent Scowcroft, national security adviser for President George H.W. Bush and a leading figure in the U.S. foreign policy establishment, said yesterday that he has grown pessimistic about prospects for stability and democracy in Iraq, a view increasingly expressed by other foreign policy figures in both parties.

"The Iraqi elections, rather than turning out to be a promising turning point, have the great potential for deepening the conflict," Scowcroft said. He said he expects increased divisions between Shiite and Sunni Muslims after the Jan. 30 elections, when experts believe the government will be dominated by the majority Shiites.

Scowcroft predicted "an incipient civil war" would grip Iraq and said the best hope for pulling the country from chaos would be to turn the U.S. operation over to NATO or the United Nations -- which, he said, would not be so hostilely viewed by Iraqis.

Speaking at a luncheon hosted by the New America Foundation, a nonprofit public policy group, Scowcroft also said the continued U.S. presence in Iraq is inflaming the Middle East, hurting the U.S. war on terrorism.
...
With the Iraqi election less than a month away, top former officials and other foreign policy analysts are increasingly skeptical in public about Iraq. Scowcroft shared the podium with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter's national security adviser. "I do not think we can stay in Iraq in the fashion we're in now," Brzezinski said. "If it cannot be changed drastically, it should be terminated." He said it would take 500,000 troops, $500 billion and resumption of the military draft to ensure adequate security in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54680-2005Jan6.html?nav=rss_politics

[Skinner]

1. I encourage everyone to read that entire article.

Not very encouraging. :scared:

[Jacobin]

10. This snip is very telling:

Scowcroft joked that both men were considered "realists" during their lifelong careers, but he noted that "it's become a pejorative term" during a Bush administration filled with idealists whose stated goal is to spread democracy in the Middle East.

[VegasWolf]

28. If you are a realist, you are not with the "plan". n/t

[ClintonTyree]

47. It was recently reported..............

by someone inside the White House (can't remember the name at the moment) that Bush thinks just because he SAYS something, that makes it TRUE. Therefore, if things are going well in Iraq, they're going DAMNED WELL in Iraq. End of discussion.
He's a madman. He's a narcissistic, down the road, full tilt bozo :crazy: madman.
Problem is, he's getting a whole lot of people killed because of his mental instability. He's doomed to go down in History as the WORST pResident, ever.

[Just Me]

11. Our neoconimperialists really do NOT care about the cost.

Hell, they are even seriously prepared to drag this country into a world war that they themselves ignite.

They do NOT want to hear about risks to our country, our people, our world because,...they are prepared to sacrifice all to expand their own power. :scared:

That's how these extreme, radical, neoconimperialists think!!! :grr:

I note that, of course, Scowcroft's tenure as chairman of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board was not extended. Why? Because the radicals in rule want to shut him up!!!

[BeHereNow]

35. ESPECIALLY in light of WHO they are.

I agree whole heartedly with you Skinner.
How ever, "not very encouraging" is an
understatement.
Down right horrifying might be more accurate
to describe my reaction to the fact that THESE
particular men are saying it.
It is the future if you know who they are.
This IS what is coming.
Hang on to your asses everyone,
cause you aint EVEN prepared for
the shit storm that is going to last for
the next thirty years or MORE.
They have revealed the future to us
with this article.
Frankly, I have never been more terrified
BECAUSE it is being said by these two men.
BHN

[leftchick]

70. and Kemp gives him an exit strategy and I know * won't do it!!

I am indeed very scared BHN.... :scared:

<snip>

Geoffrey Kemp, Reagan administration National Security Council director on Near East affairs, said U.S. goals on Iraq have to shrink. "Obviously we're in trouble. The question is whether it is a lost cause," he said. "I think we'll clearly have a better picture on February 1st or once the elections are out of the way -- or if the elections are postponed.

"There is an exit strategy that does not have to be disastrous provided that Iraq doesn't descend into anarchy and chaos," he said. "But what the president has to do is prepare the American people for a definition of winning that is clearly far less grandiose than the anticipated outcome when Saddam's statue was toppled."

[Coventina]

2. Coventina skeptical that Bushco cares.

*sigh*

On edit: Now poor ole Brent is going to find out what happens when one doesn't tow the party line. He'll be accused of "aiding the enemy" and "being on the side of the terrorists" or, Lord help him, be labelled an "evil-doer".

[durablend]

9. You got it...

Expect his resignation within the next month or so...aid to terra-ists will NOT be looked upon kindly.

[Just Me]

13. The administration did NOT extend his tenure as Chairman. eom

[VegasWolf]

29. So now he is free to tell the truth? Slime. n/t

[Leilani]

67. He has been speaking against the Iraq policy from the beginning

Before the war, he spoke out &wrote an editorial in the Post or Times.

The Bush Admin has always been displeased with him; this is nothing new.

[ClintonTyree]

49. As an aside..........

it's "toe" the line, not "tow" the line. No biggie, just one of those things I always notice. Why? :shrug:

[Coventina]

74. oops, sorry

I thought it was "tow" as in towing something along.

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

75. Yo Brent, get ready

for strip searches at airports...

That is, of course, IF they let you fly at all...

[FloridaPat]

3. All you have to watch is the sales contracts for the oil wells. Keep

watch to see who signs them and when. The rest is all lies. We are not there to bring democracy. We are not there to bring freedom. We are not there until they ask us to leave. 14 military bases and the largest embassy in the world suggest other agendas.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. But you can't convince the evangelicals of this. Democracy is a word

like proselytizing. I think they expect people to die in the process.

[mediaman007]

4. No Sh*t Sherlock! There's only one idiot who would believe that,

and he was elected ournext president. I love these arificial proclamations: They hate us because of our freedom. They hate us for the election.

Think about it: Terrorist are pretty free...they have no rules. Secondly, Saddam let his people vote, so what's new? Oh yah, we will count the votes, not Saddam!

[VegasWolf]

31. They hate us because our leader is a moron. n/t

[adigal]

5. Why would the UN nations want to go into Iraq

after we screwed it up beyond any hope of improvement? Would any sane person or country want to put their people in there?

This is unbelievable - and shows how truly divided we are as a nation. 9 out of 10 Republicans still approve of the job Bush is doing. We should send all of their children to Iraq first if there is a draft.

[Jacobin]

7. They won't go.

They assemble peacekeeping forces after a conflict is over to see that it doesn't boil over again. IraqNam has not been conquered.
It is a very active war zone.

I also agree that NATO forces or UN forces would be viewed no differently than US forces. The west is made up of infidels in their minds and we have a long horrible history of screwing these people over.

[Jacobin]

6. Why do things have to become OBVIOUS before

those in power starting making such "predictions".

Nostradamus it does not take to make such "predictions"

Hell, why not report on these same predictions that were made by opponents of the invasion BEFORE the fucking invasion. THOSE are the people I'd like to see interviewed.

[leftchick]

19. Geoffrey Kemp does not recognize Chaos when he sees it....

<snip>
Geoffrey Kemp, Reagan administration National Security Council director on Near East affairs, said U.S. goals on Iraq have to shrink. "Obviously we're in trouble. The question is whether it is a lost cause," he said. "I think we'll clearly have a better picture on February 1st or once the elections are out of the way -- or if the elections are postponed.

"There is an exit strategy that does not have to be disastrous provided that Iraq doesn't descend into anarchy and chaos," he said. "But what the president has to do is prepare the American people for a definition of winning that is clearly far less grandiose than the anticipated outcome when Saddam's statue was toppled."

Um Mr. Kemp sir,...anarchy and chaos are already there!

[RaleighNCDUer]

56. I like this --

"But what the president has to do is prepare the American people for a definition of winning that is clearly far less grandiose than the anticipated outcome when Saddam's statue was toppled."

In other words, lay out the groundwork for declaring victory before we evacuate.

[Nordic65]

65. Please, read between the lines...

"If things don't improve after elections, Iraq is FUBAR, no matter what!"

Just because this fucker is associated with the Reagan administration doesn't mean he's wrong here...

[VegasWolf]

33. I thought Jebus told him everything would be hunky dory. n/t

[ClintonTyree]

51. Jebus told Pat Robertson..................

who THEN told Pretzelnit bUsh that everything is going fine. At least that's what I read in an article about Robertson. You could be right though, bUsh talks to Jebus too, or is it GOD he talks to? It's so hard keeping those voices in their heads straight nowdays. Sigh...............I wish I was as close to Jebus as they are. :eyes:

[Historic NY]

8. This whole election thing is going to blow up in their faces and they...

seem to be so blind to it. Iraq will end up being so divided that a civil war will result. The * administration can't even run an election here w/o cheating. There will be no cheating there as it will turn into a huge morass.

[SariesNightly]

12. Turns the adage upside down

I accidentally saw people dying in Iraq last May but I heard Bush say eevrything's gonna be okay ten times since then.

I believe the latter.

(end sarcasm)

[Bo]

15. Only the neo con fascists

could not see disaster looming because of the beautiful light of jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzuuuuuussssssssssssss.

[reprobate]

18. Don't make the mistake of equating religious fundamentalism....

...with the neocons of this administration. They care not the least for religion. Fundamentalism is a ruse by which they gather support for the administration, not a part of their ideology.

[ClintonTyree]

53. Right you are..................

going to church and saying you're a Christian is like me walking into a garage and saying I'm a mechanic.
There isn't a Christian in the lot of them.

[Cocoa]

16. I think everyone has known this all along

[leftchick]

17. THE "D" WORD......

It is going to happen folks. Chimpy* care what these experts think! I predict a Draft by March. Then watch the shit hit the fan.

<snip>
With the Iraqi election less than a month away, top former officials and other foreign policy analysts are increasingly skeptical in public about Iraq. Scowcroft shared the podium with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter's national security adviser. "I do not think we can stay in Iraq in the fashion we're in now," Brzezinski said. "If it cannot be changed drastically, it should be terminated." He said it would take 500,000 troops, $500 billion and resumption of the military draft to ensure adequate security in Iraq.

The most optimistic outcome to expect, Brzezinski said, is that Iraq will become a Shiite-dominated theocracy, "not what we would normally call a democracy."

[ktowntennesseedem]

69. The D word will come, but it will be delayed to the last minute.

I hate admitting it, but I agree with Scowcroft that we will need a draft to clean the mess we've made; in fact we need it now. But Bushit & Co. are still in denial, saying everything's going as planned (easy to say since there is no plan). First, it has to get bad enough for them to notice, then bad enough for them to eat humble pie and beg Europe, Nato, UN, etc. to give us more assistance, then bad enough for them to eat more pie in bringing back the draft and begging the forgiveness of the American people.

Of course, it could happen sooner if they figure out some way to blame its necessity on Clinton and Kerry and the rest of the Dems (a very real possibility IMO!). But short of that, I predict a long costly confict that will gradually worsen with no end in sight, and a draft that comes about so late that its only effect will be to add to the cost...

(I want our troops home, and I DO NOT want a draft. But if it is inevitable, I hope it comes soon so as to shock and enrage some people out of their right-wing slumber and let them see Bushit & Co for what they really are.)

[leftchick]

71. We don't need a draft, we need to get the fuck outa there!

It amazes me when people can't see what the problem is here. IT IS THE USA OCCUPIERS! Adding more bodies means more deaths on both sides. Doesn't anyone read history anymore?!? This quagmire is no "win" here! Bring the troops home and give Iraqis the billions they deserve in reparation... :grr:

Here is an excellent 5 Point Plan that idiotface* will NEVER use!

http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/Iraq_Aftermath/2005/01/article_01.shtml

~snip~

1. Decrease US troops and end offensive operations: As a first step to withdrawal, the US should declare an immediate cease-fire and reduce the number of troops deployed in Iraq. Instead, the Bush administration has done the opposite, increasing the number of troops stationed there by 12,000. Increased offensive operations will only escalate the violence and make Iraq less secure and less safe. The US should pull troops out of major cities so that greater manpower can be directed to guarding the borders to stem the flow of foreign fighters and money being used to fund the resistance. If Iraqi security forces need assistance maintaining order, they have the option of inviting in regional forces, as proposed by Saudi Arabia. They could also reinstate the former Iraqi army, which was well-trained, after purging upper-level Saddam supporters and providing additional counterinsurgency training to deal with the current war. Once implemented, these measures would allow for total withdrawal of US forces.



2. Declare that the US has no intention to maintain a permanent or long-term military presence or bases in Iraq: Congress needs to make clear that it is committed to the principle of responsible withdrawal of all US troops from Iraq. By making this statement through a congressional resolution, the US would openly acknowledge that it has no interest in controlling Middle Eastern oil or in suppressing Muslims, hence depriving insurgents of their central organizing message. Without such a resolution, Iraqis have little reason to believe that our present actions are nothing greater than a plan to establish a long-term military presence in Iraq and make the occupation a permanent feature of Iraqi life.

3. Do more to restore services: Moving control of reconstruction from the Defense Department to the State Department has been a positive step as it removes an agency designed to fight war from the much different task of nation building. But a much stronger statement to the Iraqi people would be to go even further and give Iraqis direct authority over reconstruction funding. The US government and its contractors have failed to restore public services and public safety, strengthen institutions, or provide jobs. Meanwhile, billions of appropriated dollars remain unspent. By giving Iraqis control over reconstruction funds, more Iraqis will get jobs and projects will be better targeted to the needs of Iraqis. And lowering the unemployment rate will weaken the potential for recruitment into the insurgency.

... Much more at the link!

[jpgray]

20. Is "pessimist" a new word for "realist"?

Nice non-editorializing headline there, WP.

[found object]

21. in other words:Time to pack it up and move on

to rape and pillage other oil rich regions -- Like, maybe Indonesia?
I think these guys are all on the same page.

[Just Me]

45. Yup. Southeast Asia is on the PNAC list.

Pretty unfortunate that a tsunami hit that spot on the globe.

The PNAC neoconimperialists immediately get set to send military strength prior to offering $350M for humanitarian aid.

They are taking advantage of unfortunate circumstances and ultimately spreading death and destruction,...not democracy.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. Hey, it's great PR.

Locals will remember US as the people who showed up with food and clean water. Should give us a lot of leeway after we start killing them.

[Redstone]

22. And they branded Kerry a "flip-flopper"...

Those lying, cynical, soulless sacks of shit.

Redstone

[kodi]

23. Scowcroft's underlying message is that the busheviks are radicals

take it to the bank. refer to busheviks as "un-realistic radicals" and turn the tools of rhetorical propaganda right back at them.

[ClintonTyree]

55. Good idea, but...............

who's going to spread the message of "un-realistic radicals"? the Main Stream Media? :shrug: I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. They LOVE thier little madman emperor. :loveya:
I guess it'll have to be us. Let's get started.

[4_TN_TITANS]

24. UN my ass.....

the UN isn't going to step in and clean up W's mess, especially after he went around them to start it all! Does everyone remember the chimps last UN address - all the cold, stony, stoic faces. It amazed me that the whole audience was frowning, not even a blank look in the house. Not one occurance of applause during the speech. W has dissed the world and now we have to pay for it.

Good God we need the diplomatic prowress of John Kerry...... Maybe when Chimpy has to face the nation and reinstate the draft, people will begin to see how many times they've been duped. NOT.

[bejammin075]

25. If we leave now...

we can't get any of their oil! Iraq needs to be just stable enough so that we can get oil, but just unstable enough that Halliburton can keep repairing damaged oil fields. To Bush, a dictatorship over there would be just fine, as long as we get the oil. He's happy with dictatorship here.

[VegasWolf]

34. With civil wars and all, the huge irony is that Halliburton will NEVER

get its oil, regardless of the number of dead and dismembered
Iraqi's and U.S. troops.

[Zero Division]

26. And here comes the excuse for the imminent failure: blame the Iraqis

See the last paragraph:

"It's very obvious that we are not in control. It's equally obvious that we are scarcely defeated," Cordesman said. ". . . Our success more and more depends on, not on our skill at war, but whether the Iraqis as political leaders can lead and govern, whether Iraqi security and military forces can take up the burden of the counterinsurgency battle and whether Iraqis can form a state. If they fail politically or fail to govern or fail to provide adequate military or security forces, nothing we do military or politically or with our allies is going to matter."

Yeah, like nothing the Bush adminstration did is to blame for the political failures of the occupation. Forget the overly optimistic predictions of how large the occupation force would have to be, the mass of civilian casualties, Abu Ghuraib, etc. Let's put the majority of the blame on the Iraqi people. :eyes:

[AG78]

27. Real simple solution

http://www.usacc.org/contents.php?cid=2

All you have to do is give Scowcroft and Brzezinski a spot on the future US-Iraq Chamber of Commerce, and everything will be juuuuuuuust fine. They don't care, as long as they get their imperial money.

[upperleftedge]

32. If they bring back the draft

they better include women or there will be sexual discrimination suits.

[BeHereNow]

37. You mean WHEN, not if

The very fact that these men said it
makes it WHEN, not if.
And not to worry, it will be a
equal opportunity draft.
If you are breathing, they will take you
because the carnage is going to demand
enormous numbers of cannon fodder units.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

30. I consider this a FORECAST of what's coming.

This is the future.
These men know what time it is; they have been
in the game a LONG time and they are informing us
very clearly of what is coming.
500,000 troops.
5 BILLION dollars.
A Draft.
Hang on folks, the train is officially off the tracks, is about
to fly off the edge of the cliff and it's taking
everyone of us with it.
I repeat, consider the statements by these two
men as a heads up for what IS.
These are not speculations, they are warnings
to anyone who is paying attention.
SERIOUSLY time to think about how
you and your loved ones are going to survive
the next three decades, maybe more.
BHN

[Strelnikov_]

48. I Agree. The Crying Shame Is That If These Resources Were Committed

initially, we would have had an even chance of accomplishing a 'Free, Democratic Iraq', which I support.

The problem is, I do not think these resources would do any good now except to prolong/intensify the carnage. The window we had to accomplish our (currently) stated goals has passed. There is no 'way-back' machine.

Is a big part of the problems we are having now due to the shifting rationale for war, WMD->Terraists->Democracy. The force we went in with was more than adequate to remove the over-hyped WMD threat, but no where near enough to occupy a country long enough to establish a new political system.

(Disclaimer: I thought the Iraq invasion was unnecessary as they were not enough of a threat.)

[BeHereNow]

50. Unnecessary is an understatement- try ILLEGAL

The day we attacked Iraq was the day the rule of law
and US foreign relations died.
We will not see the end of this in our lifetimes.
Well not mine anyway- I am 45.
BHN

[Just Me]

52. Which is precisely the reason I wish I had to resources to leave NOW.

I fear for both myself and my only son. If I could pick up and head to Canada, right now, I would,...but, I simply am strapped. I hate that.

Nevertheless, I am working on a goal to gather enough together to leave prior to my son's 18th birthday, God help us.

[spooked911]

61. Do you mean 5 TRILLION-- not 5 billion?

Otherwise I agree with you, sadly, sadly.

[Rose Siding]

36. NYT- Bush responds to Q about Scowcrift comments at WH photo op

snip>
In a photo opportunity at the White House, Bush was asked about comments by Brent Scowcroft, a retired Air Force lieutenant general who served as national security adviser under presidents Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush and until recently chaired the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. Scowcroft told a Washington luncheon yesterday that he expects "an incipient civil war" between Sunni and Shiite Muslims in Iraq after the Jan. 30 elections. He said the U.S. military presence in Iraq is inflaming the Middle East and hurting the war on terrorism, and he suggested turning the operation over to NATO or the United Nations.

"The Iraqi elections, rather than turning out to be a promising turning point, have the great potential for deepening the conflict," Scowcroft said at the New America Foundation luncheon, expressing a view increasing shared by both Democratic and Republican foreign policy specialists.

Asked if he shares Scowcroft's concerns, Bush told reporters today, "Quite the opposite. I think elections will be such a incredibly hopeful experience for the Iraqi people."

He said that 14 of Iraq's 18 provinces "appear to be relatively calm." The four remaining provinces "are places where the terrorists are trying to stop people from voting," he said. "So I know it's hard. But it's hard for a reason. And the reason it's hard is because there are a handful of folks who fear freedom."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56128-2005Jan7.html?nav=rss_politics

[phusion]

38. What a dolt.

"it's hard..I know it's hard...cuz it's hard work."

What he doesn't mention is that those four provinces are among the most POPULATED in Iraq. Including Baghdad, Fallujah, Mosul, etc...

[Rose Siding]

39. "there are a handful of folks who fear freedom"

Iraq battling more than 200,000 insurgents: intelligence chief

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1117575

Big hands!

[BeHereNow]

41. And an entire planet that fears the chimp. nt

.

[LynnTheDem]

63. Dear bush: 2/3 of Iraq is UNINHABITED.

The 10 largest cities in Iraq are a RAGING WAR ZONE...and they're all in THOSE OTHER 4 PROVINCES you incredibly stupid ignorant little prick!

Dontcha just love how bush & his Cartel tell the truth by LYING?

Sure, "most of Iraq is calm"...because MOST of Iraq is a fucking deserted DESERT.

[Jacobin]

72. Wish I could find the two maps overlaid

That had population density in color and attacks on US troops as dots.
Amazingly enough, all the attacks occurred where there were a lot of people and hardly any attacks happened where there weren't any people.

Go figure /sarcasm

If we had a free press, this OBVIOUS fucking truth would be pointed out. Of course, lots of other truths would have been pointed out also and we wouldn't have Chimp as HeadIdiot.

[karlrschneider]

64. "...four remaining provinces...NOT calm..." like saying chaos in

NY, CA, FL and TX...

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. Draft the Value Voters. n/t

[BeHereNow]

42. Let's offer to help them enlist!

We'll go fundie church to fundie church
with enlistment forms- maybe then we can
avoid a draft of the poor and minority kids.
It's the FUNDIES holy war, they should fucking fight it.
Along with every idiot in the country that voted
for Bush and the annihilation of our country.
BHN

[ClintonTyree]

57. Red Staters first !

They voted for this madman, they can serve him.

[yorkiemommie1]

60. we should get some enlistment forms and leave them around

restrooms in malls, anywhere. w/ a note about how * needs more cannon fodder. who knows? maybe a freeper will enlist!

[catmandu57]

43. This was set in motion in 2000

and has been gaining momentum ever since. I don't know how many times I've read about events that wise people here have said was going to occur, then did.

This has been like watching a wreck happening, you know what is about to happen but there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. The alliances are forming up now, the moron has let loose a religious war, a regional war, a war for resources, a war for national status, we're deep into it.

As much as I dislike Scowcroft, I know he's not an idiot, and, if he sees this coming then it's already hit the air conditioning, and we may be too late to duck.

[psychopomp]

44. It's all over but the crying

Too bad about that, really.

[BeHereNow]

46. That crying hasn't even begun...

The path that these hideous people plan to
drag the rest of us down is so filled with
death, destruction and loss that most of us
can't even imagine it.
The comfort in what lies ahead?
The right wingers will be there too and we
will say to them,
"We warned you and you called us crazy.
Now you are in an unspeakalble and inescapable hell with us
and it YOUR fault for your ignorance and arrogance that
we are all here."
BHN

[RaleighNCDUer]

54. Is this New America Foundation connected with PNAC?

If so, what in the world is PNAC doing listening to the truth?

Edited to add text.

[spooked911]

59. I simply don't see how we can win

not to be overly pessimistic or anything--

but with Bush at the helm, Iraq is just going to get worse and worse.

[LynnTheDem]

62. Scowcroft OPPOSED bush's invasion of Iraq.

Brent Scowcroft, one of the Republican Party’s most respected foreign policy advisors, and national security adviser under President Gerald Ford and George H.W. Bush:

Don't Attack Saddam It would undermine our antiterror efforts

"Our pre-eminent security priority--underscored repeatedly by the president--is the war on terrorism. An attack on Iraq at this time would seriously jeopardize, if not destroy, the global counterterrorist campaign we have undertaken."

http://www.geocities.com/tom_slouck/iraq/scowcroft_iraq.html

[thatcoloredfella]

76. Bush Sr. Looks Worse Than Colin Powell

A Scowcroft protege working in the NSC under Condi, was the last tangible link between the pragmatic advisers on loan from Bush Sr. - until he was recently shown the door. The purge had more to do with shutting down that naysaying realism of the Powell crowd once and for all. Bush's re-election gave him the right to finally cut the cord to his father's influence, both rejecting his legacy of diplomacy and caution, but also finally giving him cover to endorse his son's actions without the burden of why his old advisers did not object to it.

[wildwww2]

66. Scowscroft is an ignorant twit. It`s already a civil war. Iraqi`s are

killing each other to get a better numbered force to help squash the invaders. Which would be Bu$h incorporated and their band of nincompoops. Scowcroft must be one of the leaders of the band if his dumb ass can`t figure out our troops are in the freaking middle of civil war already. And this is just the "quaint" days of the war crime and civil war crime we have started. I`m sure our new attorney general would agree. Wait until a year from now. We will be wishing the Vietnam days where back with us again.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[damntexdem]

68. And if the Shia are not sufficiently restrained, ...

they might upset the Kurds, as well.

[leftchick]

73. kick

:kick: