Kabbalah leader's Holocaust 'slur'

[emad]

By John Sweeney
BBC News


A senior figure in the controversial Kabbalah Centre - the sect championed by stars including Madonna and Demi Moore - seems likely to spark a storm of protest by saying Jews killed in the Holocaust brought their downfall upon themselves.

Eliyahu Yardeni, of the London Kabbalah Centre, made the astonishing claim to an undercover reporter investigating high-pressure sales techniques employed by the group, which promotes its own brand of beliefs, part ancient Jewish mysticism and part pseudo-science.

The probe also revealed how Kabbalah Centre representatives claimed bottles of "healing" spring water sold by the group could help cure cancer - and how they sold a batch to a sufferer for hundreds of pounds.

Talking about the wartime massacre of the Jews, Mr Yardeni said: "Just to tell you another thing about the six million Jews that were killed in the Holocaust: the question was that the Light was blocked. They didn't use Kabbalah."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4158287.stm

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emad]

2. This debate is reaching fever pitch in the European media.

Here is another angle from today's Sunday Times, re the much reported story in the New Year about Pope Pius XII and the kidnapping of Jewish children:

Snip,
Paragraph 10 from:

Did the Pope 'steal' Holocaust children?
Daniel Goldhagen
A 1946 Vatican letter was an attempt to stop the return of children to their Jewish families


Now we have a smoking gun: this chilling document. It reveals that the Pope’s and the church’s policy was, in effect, to kidnap Jewish children, perhaps by the thousands. It exhibits Pius XII’s callousness towards the suffering of Jews and its plain purpose was to implement a plan that would victimise the Jews a second time by depriving these survivors of the Nazi hell of their own children.

The document cannot surprise anyone familiar with the Catholic church during this period. But it does remove what Pius XII had enjoyed: plausible deniability. For 60 years the church and its officials have worked hard to deny the many crimes and outrages against Jews before, during and after the Holocaust committed by Pius XII, bishops and priests.

Pius XII and the church kept this policy of denying Jewish parents their children secret from the world, because they knew that it would be seen as outrageous and criminal. Yet religious robes should not cloak a person and his deeds from being called plainly what they are. The recent priestly sex abuse scandals have taught us this. They have also taught us that transparency is necessary for this most secretive of churches.

If the church is the moral institution it claims to be then it must take measures to redress this: the Vatican should establish and fund a fully independent commission of outside historical, ecclesiastical and forensic experts, led by a person of international stature, to determine how many Jewish children the church did not return and the role that Pius XII, cardinals and bishops played. The commission should be granted full access to all church institutions, personnel and documents.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1431072,00.html

As last discussed on DU:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1106326

[BrklynLiberal]

12. This media hysteria reminds me of something a therapist once told a group I

was a part of once. Some people just cannot handle living a nice, quiet peaceful life. She said that they just must have the living room curtains on fire, and if they are not on fire, they will set them on fire themselves. It seems to me that sometimes, if there is not some sort of controversy to inflame people - particularly about religion - someone will come along with something to make sure that they can get everyone enraged about something! Lots of anger and free publicity,and of course...lots of papers sold!!!!

[Canuckistanian]

13. Pfffttttt! Yeah, right, like that's gonna happen anytime soon....

"Vatican" and "independent commission" are like oil and water...

[JohnLocke]

6. What the fuck does that mean? (nt)

[Tacos al Carbon]

16. Good question

What the hell DOES biteme mean by that?

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Reminds me of the Lubavitcher rabbi who told me that God sent Hitler

to "help the Jews". He was serious. I thought initially it was the beginning of a really bad ironic joke. His rationale was that Hitler destroyed ca. 6 million Jews, thus ensuring that the survivors and their brethren would remain Jewish thereafter, because to choose otherwise would result in unbearable guilt. (The Jewish thing and the guilt thing is getting old, doncha think?)

[norml]

4. I've studied Kabbalah, and this group doesn't know much about Kabbalah.

It has nothing to do with lucky string that you tie around your wrist. Eliyahu Yardeni is an idiot leading idiots into even greater idiocy. For a better understanding of Kabbalah, read Kabbalah, An Introduction, and Illumination for the World Today, by Charles Ponce`.

[KittyWampus]

10. Thanks. While A Case Can Be Made For The Universal Necessity Of

Diasporas/Holocausts... Yardeni seems to want power, money and attention.

Universal Necessity refers to Entropy as well as the intimite relatioship between Creativity and Destruction.

[NuttyFluffers]

20. yeah, that always bothered me too.

selling stuff? lucky potions and string? what the hell?

the qaballah i studied (only briefly, but through several texts, usually older books, not the chic soft-covers with oodles of fantastical pictures sold at your local barnes & noble) had one huge caveat -- learn, but never practice. one of the major reasons qaballah tries to only be taught to those who have already lived a full life, they won't be easily swayed by the temptation to use it instead of their own capacity of living. reason was that reality is deeply complex, beautiful, and shouldn't be tampered with. and most people are fallible and will most likely make a mistake in the process, especially in forgetting to do the opposite ritual through the qlippheroths, undoing the traces of manipulation, or poisoning the process with mixed emotions.

where's the reluctance in teaching? not all should be taken in as students. and people shouldn't be exploited in their faith and ignorance.

[norml]

21. They give Kabbalah a bad name. It's not about selling pieces of string

and small bottles of water for large amounts of money. It isn't about saying stupid stuff to the press either.

[Deja Q]

5. Hmmm

Delete

[BayCityProgressive]

7. You know

I have bought a few things from the center and have never been pressured by anyone. Also the water is only $2.25 for the large water bottles. That isn't much different than the large bottled water you get at the store. They don't claim it is holy water. The Jewish community is having fits about the center because they don't claim to be Jewish yet they teach Kabbalah. Just like conservative Christians dislike liberal Christians...traditional Jewish groups dislike the cneter because they are teaching Kabbalah to non Jews. Traditionally it is taught only to Jewish men over 40. What the Rabbi was saying in the article is that evil deeds by men block the "light" of the creator and when there is too much evil in the world it causes bad things to happen..ie Noah's flood, war, famine ect...I am not saying anyone has to believe that...it is just the context in which he was most likely speaking. I am not an expert on the center, but they have never done anything shady to me.

[AlbizuX]

8. oh god....

Jesus these morons! Now you inflame the anti-semitism groups!

What's with all these Hollywood stars either being pseudo-Jewish mystics or Scientologists?

[BayCityProgressive]

9. I am sorry I am not

a religious person..but the Kabbalah Center or Scientology is no more loony than Christianity, Islam, or Judaism....all of them have far off myth like stories. I find it funny that people consider ancient Roman and Greek stories as myth but hold up the stories of Noah and Adam and Eve with ease. I don't think any of these groups are any "loonier" than any other.

[BrklynLiberal]

11. hmm Interesting point. Makes one wonder. What is the difference between

a religion and a sect, besides the difference in the number of people who believe in it? Wasn't Christianity considered a "sect" by the Romans?
I agree with you BayCityProgressive, sometime in the future, what we consider "religion" today, will be viewed in the same light as we view the Greek and Roman mythology of ancient times.
It is all mythology. Some people worship it.

[AlbizuX]

15. agreed...that's why I'm not any of the above...

I don't believe in the fairy tales of the Bible either...

[VegasWolf]

14. People buy into religion so easily. n/t

[AngryAmish]

17. These folks sound like really talented grifters

But what a grift! See, we sell you this magic water or this magic wristband...

[Chicago Democrat]

18. Just proves Kabbalah is flawed.

nothing else

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. 150,000 people died in the tsunami because they didn't buy

the worldwide-renowned Commie Pinko Dirtbag Tsunami Protector®! Buy it now! Stocks are limited! Only $299.99! Dial 1-800-SNAKEOIL now!

[theresistance]

22. "Astonishing claim"?

The funny thing is, there are at least a few Jewish rabbis that say this sort of thing, i.e. Jews were "punished" and brought it on themselves.