School board to decide on Bible class plan

[truthpusher]

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw109793_20050109.htm

Frankenmuth school board to decide on Bible class plan

January 9, 2005, 5:00 PM

A yearlong dispute over whether to add a religious group's Bible class at small-town Frankenmuth High School comes to a head at Monday's school board meeting.

At issue is whether the proposed curriculum conforms to a 1963 U.S. Supreme Court decision barring public schools from indoctrinating children in religion but upholding the right to teach about religion.

(snip)

One year ago, hundreds of Frankenmuth parents and students asked their Board of Education to offer a Bible course based on materials from the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools.

The Greensboro, N.C.-based council says its curriculum conforms to the law. But People for the American Way and the American Civil Liberties union say its materials illegally promote religion.

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw109793_20050109.htm

[NYC]

1. Frankenmuth? Made famous by Michael Moore

in Roger and Me.

[TahitiNut]

3. Chicken dinners and Christmas ornaments.

:shrug: and a brewery.

[NYC]

6. Oktoberfest.

Or something similar.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. during the '80s,

I taught in a school where the Baptist minister's wife had a "Bible Club" after school. Supposedly because it was after school it was ok. They put the club's picture in the yearbook and announced meetings during the school day. I was always uncomfortable with this, especially since the teacher kept asking if I was "saved"-personally I felt insulted, as I was active in my local Methodist church at the time. The Baptists were a power in the town, and no one questioned their right to do this, though now I know I would.

[AlbizuX]

5. i tell those folks...

to ask Jesus if I'm saved in their regular meetings with him...they look at me weird...and then I say..."oh..you've never spoken directly to him? Than how can you purport to know what he wants?"

That's usually when they leave...probably thinking i'm Satan.

[bigluckyfeet]

15. If you want to learn

The Bible,go to sunday school at your local church.

[AgadorSparticus]

14. about the 'saved' question, you should reply next time, "oh yes, a

loooong time ago. Buddha (Shiva, Allah, Isis, etc.) saved me a very long time ago." :evilgrin:

[genieroze]

23. We had a Bible Club in our HS, it was after school. It wasn't run by a

minister or a teacher, but a teacher had to be present. I was run by students and for students to discuss the Bible. It didn't even have a religious name nor did we advertise. This was the only way the school would allow it. We lived in a large rural county of mostly farmers with kids from all over and this was the only way we could meet in one area. It was hush, hush over 30 years ago and it was listed as a Philosophy group. This was up north.

[pinto]

4. Even as a religious person, I'm glad they used the phrase "illegally

promoting religion". 'Cause that is exactly what it is. Illegal. The Constitution says so and that's good enough for me.

[AlbizuX]

7. this is illega

this is not just a passing reference to the Bible for use in a class about another topic. I remember that in college, I had to read several chapters of the Bible (even had to buy a Catholic bible to do it!) as part of our Early Western History course...but, the point was to highlight the history of the times, not the religion. That I think is fine...

However, a class ABOUT the Bible...that's religious indoctrination. Should we have classes about the Torah or Koran as well?

I hope this class is not allowed.

[CatholicEdHead]

8. Link to materials here

Sure sounds like indocrination to me.
National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools:

http://www.bibleinschools.net/sdm.asp


This is the actual front page which is quite annoying:
http://www.bibleinschools.net/

Check out Unit 17:
http://www.bibleinschools.net/pdf/CurrTOB904.pdf

[truthpusher]

11. Great links - thanks - we really have to do something about theese...

...people. We should start a forum for 'public enemies'. I would love to have a place where we can list all of the most egregious offenders, a place where we can post links, ltte's, e-mail addresses etc.

[Johnny Noshoes]

12. "Public Enemies"?

You might want to reconsider that idea - it seems to kinda sorta conflict with the spirit of the Meta Prayer. Maybe its just me. The list or whatever isn't such a bad idea as a kind of central cache of information to use in order to keep them at bay. "Public enemies" just sounds too Richard Nixonesque.

[truthpusher]

13. Thanks for taking...

...notice of the metta prayer - I have been reflecting on it regularly since I first came across it many years ago. I personally think we need to not be afraid of speaking the truth...when I say public enemy, it might sound a bit harsh, but when you break it down, people and groups like this are only doing good for their kind. The public at large suffers. Somebody that assaults the public by forcing there beliefs on them is an enemy of many. I am not at all attached to the idea of calling them public enemies, it just seemed to fit.

[Johnny Noshoes]

17. I understand

what you are trying to say and actually agree - its just that we have to choose our words mindfully because "others" lurk here and we can get portrayed badly. Now that does NOT mean that we shy away from the truth - HELL NO.

[inslee08]

9. It could work

If this class were to be taught in such a careful way that the bible is never actually promoted, and proven historical events are distinguished from biblical ones, then I really wouldn't have a problem with it. But that seems really hard, and I doubt it would work in practice, IMO.

[msongs]

20. "proven historical events" leaves out JESUS... eom

[Charlie Brown]

10. If they must include religion...

Then why can't they do it LEGALLY by offering a comparative religion course, with an emphasis on all of the world's major religions. A "Bible Class" is blatant in what its supporters are intending.

Oh, yeah. This is also against that "Academic Bill of Rights" they keep pressuring legislatures to endorse. I guess only one side gets the protection.

[Telly Savalas]

22. Because this is about them hijacking our culture, not about educating kids

More and better comparative religion classes would be great though. It'd help kids in Kansas better see how folks in Syria or India or elsewhere see the world.

[Ilsa]

16. Teach religion? Does that mean they will also teach

The Quran, the Torah, etc, etc?

[depakid]

18. What the hell is a North Carolina group doing in Michigan?

Not satisfied with challenging the curricula's at their own schools, apparently.

And people wonder why Southerners are so often derided. He's yet another sterling example.

[AnnInLa]

19. Courts Tackle Thorny Church-State Issues

From this month's NEA Today Magazine:

"Can teachers lead prayers, distribute religious take-home fliers, or participate in student religious clubs? The answers might surprise you.

Many school officials mistakenly believe that schools have to be "religion-free zones." That's not so, and six recent federal court rulings provide much-needed guidance on several delicate questions involving religion in the schools.

The hottest issue by far is whether schools have to allow religious and evangelical groups to distribute promotional fliers through student backpacks (fliers are taken home by the students and given to the parents). The unanimous answer of three federal circuit courts is "yes," but only if the school allows a wide array of other community groups to do so. The Ninth Circuit Court cautioned, however, that schools can still refuse to distribute "literature that itself contains proselytizing language," which the court distinguished from fliers inviting students to join in activities or meetings sponsored by religious groups.

On the school prayer front, recent decisions reaffirm that neither teachers nor administrators can promote prayer in school, although students continue to enjoy the right to pray individually or in groups while at school.

The Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals held that an Alabama teacher stepped over the line at the beginning of each class by inviting her students to offer "prayer requests" and by announcing, "let us pray," pausing for a moment of silence, and then saying "Amen." The court also ruled that the same teacher violated the free speech rights of one of her students by punishing him for silently raising his fist during the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance.

Finally, a South Dakota teacher sued the Sioux Falls School District after she was denied permission to participate in after-school meetings of a student religious club at the elementary school where she taught. Emphasizing that she was off the clock and attending the club not as a teacher but as a private citizen, the Eighth Circuit ruled that the restriction violated her free speech rights."

Groan, sigh, weep.

[athenap]

21. I'd love to see...

...a real Comparative Religions class curriculum proposed as an alternative every time one of these requests comes up. The agendas of these people will be exposed then, and it'll be clear to see whether or not people are interested in having a legitimate study of the Bible as literature or religious text, versus the wingnuts who want to use tax dollars to fund recruitment.

And if this does go through, then I hope someone will request a study of the Torah, Qu'ran, etc.