NYT: E-Mail Shows Higher Toll From Crash of Submarine(1 Dead 60 Hurt)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/national/12sub.html?position=&adxnnl=1&oref=login&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1105506631-jNkK1jhY939M/XKhGTYR7Q

The nuclear submarine that ran aground Saturday in the South Pacific hit so "incredibly hard" that about 60 of its 137 crew members were injured and the sailor who died was thrown 20 feet by the impact, according to internal Navy e-mail messages sent by a top admiral.

The messages said the submarine's hull was severely damaged after the head-on crash into what Navy officials believe was an undersea mountain that was not on the navigation charts. One message said the submarine, the San Francisco, was traveling at high speed, and the impact practically stopped it in its tracks and caused flooding in parts of the bow.

The messages were written by Rear Adm. Paul F. Sullivan, the commander of submarines in the Pacific. They paint a more dire picture of the accident, which occurred 360 miles southeast of Guam, than had previously been disclosed. They also hint at the extensive efforts to steady the vessel and save the sailor who died.

The e-mail indicated that the Navy had tried to evacuate the fatally injured man, Machinist Mate 2nd Class Joseph A. Ashley, within hours after he had been thrown forward and hit his head on a metal pump, which knocked him unconscious.

[Bigmack]

1. You Sub-types...

Can you hit a mountain underwater? Don't those things have sonar... or something? Shit, my 32 ft. Trawler has a forward-looking depth sounder.

Didn't subs used to play "chicken" with Soviet boats?

Didn't the Navy just report that they'd shitcanned a whole bunch of Commanding Ossifurs for screwing up?

What's up?

ON EDIT: Some of my questions were answered in General Discussion, I find out later.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2935690

[Ezlivin]

5. Yes

While underway, we always had all of the navigational charts laid out in Upper Level Ops. When I was on watch, I had to report to the OOD (Officer of the Deck) hourly to provide atmosphere readings. I often stopped by and talked to the quartermasters and took a look at where we were.

You don't use active sonar to "ping" unless you want every enemy within a thousand square miles to know exactly where you are.

First rule of the Silent Service: Be silent.

When submerged, we relied upon good charts and accurate gyroscopes for inertial guidance. I was also a gyroscope technician and was responsible for three gyroscopes (triple redundancy). If the gyros were inaccurate we could have very easily slammed into an undersea mount.

Going from, say, 20 knots to a dead standstill would wreak havoc on board. I'm surprised that more people didn't die. (I slept next to live torpedoes and if they rolled or "lit off"....)

[Blue_Tires]

6. how do you account for water currents in navigation

something i always wondered

[Ezlivin]

7. Part of the task of the navigator

...is to account for currents and make the necessary adjustments.

We didn't surface that often, but when we did we'd fix our position and then update our nav computers.

The more modern subs have laser gyroscopes and can quickly do a GPS fix from periscope depth.

[MADem]

2. Given the massive damage and speed of the vessel

...it's really quite miraculous that more people didn't die. They had some serious forward flooding, ripped the damn dome off...that was some collision.

"Navy officials said the San Francisco was traveling at 30 knots when it careened off some part of the undersea mountain range. In one of the e-mail messages, Admiral Sullivan wrote that on impact, the vessel made a "nearly instantaneous deacceleration" to about 4 knots."

They were BOOKING, 30K is probably a low end estimate of the SOA....ugh, shudder to think about it.

[saigon68]

3. This is the scary part of the Navy

I wasn't in the Navy, but shit like this could kill the whole crew instantly.

They do deserve their hazardous duty pay.

[Rose Siding]

4. A top admiral sent mssgs with details of a nuclear sub accident?

That seems stupid.