Iraq rebels in video taunt

[spinbaby]

Iraq rebels in video taunt
Wed Jan 12, 2005 03:05 PM GMT
Printer Friendly | Email Article | RSS    By Michael Georgy

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Departing from fiery Islamic slogans, Iraqi guerrillas have launched a propaganda campaign with an English-language video urging U.S. troops to lay down their weapons and seek refuge in mosques and homes.

The video, narrated in fluent English by what sounded like an Iraqi educated in the United States or Britain, also mocked the U.S. president's challenge to rebels in the early days of the insurgency to 'bring it on'.

"George W. Bush; you have asked us to 'bring it on'. And so help me, (we will) like you never expected. Do you have another challenge?," asked the narrator before the video showed explosions around a U.S. military Humvee vehicle.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=652858

[no_to_war_economy]

1. video is here

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7468.htm

[egoprofit]

20. kinda makes you think of the insurgents differently

this video is a good production seeing as where it came from. the person who speaks on the tape is definately educated and understands the situation. it's kind of cool to hear what they have to say about the war and everything going on.

[spinbaby]

27. I couldn't see the video

For some reason, it came through as audio only.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

49. happened to me-I updated the WindowsMplayer and now I have visuals

you can update it by opening you player, go to "help" at the top on the right, then scroll down to "check for player upgrade"--
hope this helps--

[IndianaGreen]

57. "Stop using dollars, use Euros..."

Now, that's something that will really hit our elites in their pockets!

[rkc3]

2. I thought those words were meant to scare the insurgents/terrorists,

not to get them riled up.

I swear it's like the stupid fucker and his cabinet did everything they could to prolong this war. They invaded a country based on lies. They secured oil fields - not borders or ammo dumps. And they killed several boatloads of civilians.

Now half of America wonders why we can't leave. The other half still thinks they hate us for our freedoms.

[MisterP]

31. PNAC expressly desired bases in the ME; moreover, more war,

both current and future ones the current ones set the stage for, provide more $$$ to the MIC.

[sniffa]

3. the freeper response

it's time to sLap some more ribbon magnets on the car.... that'LL show 'em.

[David__77]

4. I'm getting a black ribbon: "Bring them home."

I think we need some anti-war ribbons. I do, yes, hate the ribbons, but the more the better to dilute the influence of the jingoistic ones.

[cyberpj]

5. I bought several anti-war automobile magnets here:

They're on the way today.

http://unitedforpeace.org/catalog/index.php/cPath/30?osCsid=fbc461bd7058e4b0bb3665ab3fc9abe0

[no_to_war_economy]

6. I have one already on my car

http://www.northernsun.com/cgi-bin/ns/5230.html

[dhinojosa]

12. Amen to that.

[calimary]

16. I remember seeing a blue ribbon campaign for Bring Our Troops Home.

Actually, I think it was Bring Home Our Troops. It was a cobalt-blue ribbon similar to the AIDS ribbon and the breast cancer ribbon and the other "advocacy" ribbons, only blue. I saw it online from a link that some DUer posted. I'm sorry I don't remember who it was - to give him/her appropriate credit. Nor do I remember the link. But I do remember I was impressed enough to get a deep blue pipe cleaner and twist a safety pin into it - to make a Bring Home Our Troops ribbon of my own.

[David__77]

21. I really like this one.

[DireStrike]

37. "I support the guy in China who made this stupid magnet"

www.antimagnet.com/

I'm gonna get me some of these and see if it helps shut anybody up.

[dhinojosa]

45. Is there a steel one that says 'Armor Our Troops'

[David__77]

7. Wow. That is a very effective video.

Indeed, this is a criminal, unjust, immoral war of aggression.

[RebelOne]

8. Wow, that was powerful.

You sure as hell know that will not be broadcast on CNN or any other news channel.

[jmcgowanjm]

9. “It’s as though they imagine that the American army is some kind of god.”

Later in my room we watched a press conference on
the television with the so-called interim prime minister
Iyad Allawi. A journalist asked him if it was true that the
cell phone service would be cut on the 15th of this
month because of the upcoming
"elections."
 
He dodged the questiondeferring it to the ministry of
defense.

Of course the gas crisis continues to worsen. Most of
the stations in Baghdad are closed

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album24&id=closed_station.

Rather than cars filling their tanks, strands of razor
wire http://dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album24&id=station

and empty fuel tanker trucks sit in many of them.

http://rense.com/general61/not.htm

[slor]

10. That was some powerful...

video. We need to get our troops out of there ASAP!

[dhinojosa]

11. It reminded me of the Godfather II, when

Corlionne in Cuba said that these revolutionaries (in Cuba) aren't being paid ,they're doing it for their country. Iraq is not getting paid to fight like this. That's some morale.

[Stella_Artois]

13. He's not an Iraqi.

He's British, or at the very least an Iraqi native that was brought up in Britain.

He has a midlands accent, perhaps Stoke.

I doubt that an Iraqi would pick up that accent, and loose his own, in the period of a few years at a University.

[dhinojosa]

17. British Muslims aren't hard to come by.

These are modern times. If you want to argue that they can't export movies out, I'd say they are proficient of importing weapons in.

[Minstrel Boy]

24. Omar Saeed Sheikh, for instance.

The ISI-al Qaeda double agent, go-between bagman for Mahmood Ahmed and Mohammed Atta, who lured Daniel Pearl to his death. He's a native Londoner, born in Whips Cross Hospital.

[Stella_Artois]

26. You misunderstand

I'm not saying that he is not in Iraq, i'm saying he left Britain recently to fight against the US, having spent a very long time there, perhaps all his life.

[Rose Siding]

18. He could have a Detroit accent and still be Iraqi

Iraq recognizes dual citizenship so if a parent is Iraqi, he could be a citizen without ever setting foot in Iraq.

[0007]

23. ....junior doesn't talk like a Texan either, Rummy talks like he

has a mouth full of smegma, General Meyers talks like the senior of the "Three Stooges" CNN is no better than loony tunes, while FAUX news is the "Tokyo Rose" of the western world.

Bring the Troops Home!

[dhinojosa]

14. I think the U.S troops that do get killed are because they are in the way.

of these tankers. I always hear of road-side bombs, or soldiers being injured near a truck, or something else road related. Are we using our troops as gas tanker shields? I bet we are? I'd gladly give up my vehicle to bring them home.

[dhinojosa]

15. By the way, I nominated this article for the front.

A great discussion topic

[dhinojosa]

19. If you were a U.S. Soldier would you take them up on their mosque offer?

Scary stuff. I wouldn't. Both sides are assholes in my point of view.

[DireStrike]

40. *snort* Hell no! I wouldn't be 2 feet away from my rifle. Im NOT getting

my head chopped off.

No way to tell good guys from bad...

[ashmanonar]

41. assholes?

wow, i wouldn't mind seeing through your point of view...it'd be instructive...:eyes:

if someone had invaded our country and destroyed cleveland, or NY, or LA, would you call someone an "asshole" who stood up to the conquerors?
well, would you?

saying someone is an asshole without having any understanding of their culture is just wrong, i must say. in fact, the "arabian" culture of the ME is quite hospitable, when we aren't funding their enemies or blowing up their cities...iranians have been quite friendly and hospitable to our people there.

the only reason the iraqis are "assholes" is bc we're blowing the shit out of their country.

[dhinojosa]

44. I have no problem with the people of Iraq, except

Those that behead people. I am not happy about the U.S. either. I am not happy with Al Sadr, and the other insurgents. Sure their country got invaded, and they have every right to defend it. The whole thing was wrong to begin with.

[ashmanonar]

47. i agree that the US has a lot to answer for in iraq and elsewhere...

but i disagree that you can label the people of iraq specifically (considering the ease with which people from other nearby countries can infiltrate iraq's borders, and the very american tendency to label all people who look the same AS the same), even "those that behead people"...can you pick them out in a lineup, or see them on the street? i agree, there's something reprehensible and unusually cruel about beheading a person, but a nuanced viewpoint would indicate that the iraqis wouldn't do this without reason...obviously beheading foreigners isn't normal, but these aren't normal times, are they? besides, these haven't been simple attacks on innocent people, the people who were killed were either american defense contractors or coalition representatives of their specific country (japan, poland, etc) and their beheadings were meant to make a political point.

it would seem that bushco has missed the political point of these attacks.

[alittlelark]

50. Beheading is their standard method of execution.

Until 50 years ago we were hanging..... The last electric chair went away 3-4 years ago.....

Perhaps a shot to the temple is better.....

If another country had invaded the US - I, and a great many Americans would also be resorting to whatever methods we had available to us.

[ashmanonar]

63. exactly...

i'm a martial artist, and i know that if we were ever invaded (it's only conjecture, the US will probably never be invaded) i would do anything in my power to damage the conquerors...actually, this figures into if something untoward happens in our government...shhhh!:eyes:

[mike_c]

22. kicked and nominated

eom

[Massachusetts]

25. Not what OUR TROOPS should be used for

Meanwhile, OUR TROOPS are looking for the insurgents, and the insurgents are taking videos of OUR TROOPS.

Hell is to nice a place for the Bu$hco team to end up!

:wtf: :mad:

[OldVlad]

28. This will do nothing but rally people to support this war

These insurgents would be wise to STFU, the American people reflexively cring at this sort of taunting, even when many of them already know Bush is an idiot and wrong. This does nothing but make people want the military to crush these guys.

[NorthernSpy]

29. but does it make 'em want to enlist?

These insurgents would be wise to STFU, the American people reflexively cring at this sort of taunting, even when many of them already know Bush is an idiot and wrong. This does nothing but make people want the military to crush these guys.

Yeah, and if wishes were horses! The bottom line isn't what people want; it's what they actually do. Do you see this news provoking a great wave of new enlistees, filled with square-jawed determination to fight and win the war they so fervently believe in?

I don't. I say the living-room warriors will shout abuse at the teevee for about five minutes, and then nestle even deeper in their comfychairs.

[OldVlad]

33. I wouldn't enlist

I say the living-room warriors will shout abuse at the teevee for about five minutes, and then nestle even deeper in their comfychairs.

While I didn't say anyone would enlist because of this (although its hard to relate to a testosterone filled 17 year old boy, maybe they see this as a challenge who knows, I wouldn't obviously) but this is the real problem; The living-room warriors vote, I don't want them agreeing with Bu$h's defense of Iraq. That's why these guys should have kept their mouths shut.

[FreeCajun]

30. That's what they want - to undercut US morale.

They're using psy-ops against American troops now, just like our troops did to them when they invaded: turnabout is fair play. They are forcing the US to confront them as equals, and gaining face and notoriety, rather than getting the labels of "terrorists" and "insurgents," they are now soldiers and warriors. These are intelligent and deadly men, and that underestimation has cost a lot of American lives so far, and will cost far more as their tactics evolve.

[OldVlad]

32. I don't buy the "intelligent" thing after this saber rattling

Before today maybe, but if there is any underestimating going on, its by these boastful idiots that don't understand Americans any more then Bush understands them. This will totally backfire in undercutting morale, as it will cause a rallying affect at the directness of it. Very stupid, just like Bin Ladin's attack on Bu$h before the election, they would have been wise to just remain a shadow, if this gets a lot of play in the media it will do nothing but lean people towards seeing this war as a challenge on their flag and soldiers with this taunting. They're wrong, its not-but that's the way middle America take this sort of intimidation tactic.

[NYC]

36. Do you think the video will actually change someone's mind?

Do you think it will make somebody change from not supporting the war (&/or Bush) to supporting the war?

[OldVlad]

43. Not exactly

Nothing is going to change the war's opinions, but for some that aren't as politically aware, I think it probably will make them dislike the insurgents, and want to see them killed for such threatening. That doesn't translate into support for the war, but it could soften their opinion of the guy "leading" against them.

My point is that this is a bad play for the insurgents.

[ashmanonar]

39. i have trouble believing that the sheeple will just rise up

and volunteer in the army...

if you're not saying it directly, you're at least implying it...and i think the soldiers are finally realizing that these aren't the "sand n******"s or "camel jockeys" they've been taught to believe they are, but serious and deadly fighters that are willing to stand up to american soldiers in defense of their home.

and anyways, why do you think our soldiers are deserting and suing the gov't to get out of service? why has the national guard missed it's recruiting quota this year? why do you see people rumoring a draft, and figuring out ways to fight it or run away from it?

bc this sort of psychological warfare has a profound effect on a country that is already divided and broken...if we don't trust our own leaders, it's very difficult to believe that bush is gonna be able to stand up to this...bush has a problem with dissension (just look here) anyways, look at all the threads on DU regarding the RNC arrests (thousands of people arrested in NYC for trying to protest the RNC convention), his indirect or outright lying responses to direct questions...

in short, i think that you are not facing reality. this sort of thing reminds me how dangerous a foe we have gained, and how stupid our leadership is...and it scares me too, bc of the rumors of a draft and having friends getting shipped off to iraq...

if you're not scared of this at all, feel free to volunteer for the army, to go to iraq. i'd likely respect you if you did, but until then, don't presume to speak for "middle america".

[OldVlad]

42. nope, why would I fight for Bush

it's very difficult to believe that bush is gonna be able to stand up to this...bush has a problem with dissension (just look here) anyways

in short, i think that you are not facing reality.

Wow, such optimism is...cute I guess.

Wish I had that confidence in people standing up to Bu$h, as it stands we had all these problems for the past 6 mo, everybody was talking about it, and he still beat us by 3mil, by the "middle America" you claim is coming to the rescue.

[ashmanonar]

48. i'm not saying that "middle america" is "coming to the rescue",

but simply saying that you can't speak for everybody, bc everybody is of a different opinion...

if i wasn't trying to be optimistic, i'd be depressed as hell by recent events...besides, if you look around on this site, you'll find that many people don't agree that bush "beat" kerry, but rather that he stole the election; winning is not the same as cheating.

(i happen to come from "middle america"--central/northern illinois--and the very term is inaccurate; there is no single regional philosophy or ideology.)

[OldVlad]

56. just be real

if i wasn't trying to be optimistic, i'd be depressed as hell by recent events...

Good, then you would be starting to deal with reality where we live. The Pollyanna attitude of hope springing eternal with many of us is naive and counterproductive. There is a lot to be depressed about, we should be talking about it.

besides, if you look around on this site, you'll find that many people don't agree that bush "beat" kerry

I'm all too aware of that, which is one of the reasons I stopped just reading on here after the election and started posting. Everybody's heart is in the right place, for what little that counts for, but the "DE-NILE" isn't only a river in Egypt. Its a form of Escapism at its root, and its not helping long term.

i happen to come from "middle america"--central/northern illinois--and the very term is inaccurate; there is no single regional philosophy or ideology

Yes, I am from Indiana as well, I was unclear, I was speaking in generalities because I was referring to the majority. Majorities win elections, that's what matters and unless you see these and all the other (depressing) developments as giving us momentum to finally take back the House in 06, then there is logic behind being down.

[ashmanonar]

58. i'm going to discontinue this argument

bc i find it unproductive...but i'll leave you with some links on the so-called majority's "mandate" for 2004, and the chances that an exit poll would be as far off as it was in this country on november 2nd and 3rd.

Common Dreams
Scoop
Daily Kos

and if you are really curious to find election fraud proofs, google exists for a reason, or you can donate here and search the threads of DU. (there's an awesome site somewhere on the internets that enumerates the amount of votes that were either impossible or obviously changed to bush votes, but i can't remember the url)

[OldVlad]

60. or because you find it painful

A bit defensive. I used to be a bit of a pollyanna myself so I know where you are coming from. For the record Kerry was trailing 49-51 in most polls the last week, if you think reading conspiracy into that benefits you in any way; continue. I am not offended that you found this discussion to be an arguement, or that you don't want to continue, but just know, for your own sake, you are going to have to face the cold unpleasant realities I spoke of sooner rather then later or you'll only end up being more emotional when it hits you.
No hard feelings, good luck to you ash.

[ashmanonar]

62. the only cold hard reality i worry about

is if/when there is a draft...i happen to be in the first group to possibly be inducted, 20 year olds...sorry if i seem defensive/optimistic about our government, but i like to have hope that it could change...

but anyways, i wasn't going to respond...damn!

ciao

[OldVlad]

64. ah I see now

As for the Draft, one thing to be absolutely "optimistic" that there will never, ever, ever be a draft for this war. Its political suicide and the Rove knows it. Rumsfield has even gone so far as to insult the effectiveness of a drafted army vs what we have. That will not happen, they might pull out, but that would actually help the Dems and Rove won't do it.

Unfortunately for your age group, some of us during the election decided to, how shall I say "focus" the possibilty of that happening. In order to get your friends to actually turn out for once. Course you saw the results, 11% yet again, thanks kiddies. (I'm not blaming you) In the aftermath the kids were not assured that this option was not on the table and I hear them interviewed being worried. Course for not really turning out for such an important election they deserve some sleepless nights! You don't though, be at peace on that. There's enough things going on right now that deserve to be worried about.

Yes I'm crafty old coger getting people to respond that said they wouldn't ;-) Take care.

[FreeCajun]

59. If the goal is to kill more American Troops, it works like a charm.

US forces will get mad, concentrate their forces, level another city and blow up a few hospitals, fueling resentment throughout the Arab world and creating ever increasing numbers of terrorists and extremists. All the while the Iraqi militia hides, takes potshots, and sets up more roadside bombs throughout the rest of the country while the US's attention is elsewhere.

THAT will be undercutting morale: there will be fewer safe places the more the US concentrates its forces elsewhere, thus the Iraqi miltia will be able to slip through more holes in the securtiy net than before, killing more people.

[OldVlad]

61. but I didn't say that

I didn't mean it would make them "mad" and start targeting civilians. What you said was true that it would cut morale if all those things happened, but I don't think this makes them "mad" I think it makes them determined, which will sustain them in this futile effort. Its too bad but I don't see them leaving any more now then a couple months ago.

[okieinpain]

34. didn't this video come out last year.

[Nederland]

35. Yes

It was linked to by Andrew Sullivan in mid-December.

[V Lee]

38. Bush issued the challenge ...

... so let him go over there and deal with the result, on the front lines. It might change his mind about supporting the neocon agenda of preemptive wars for oil and domination of the Middle East.

He's such a blatant chickenhawk. It's like challenging someone to a duel and then sending someone else to stand in your place.

And how does challenging our enemies to attack our soldiers equate to "supporting our troops?" It doesn't, it equates to getting Americans killed needlessly.

-==-

[daleo]

46. How did this sort of thing play out during Viet Nam?

I imagine there was lots of psy ops from both sides, although the technology was not as advanced.

[MADem]

51. Two words--Jane Fonda

It did not play well, in fact, it muddied the waters. But the issues were not as stark as they are in this conflict. Back then, there were freedom loving Vietnamese people, the evil Russkies and Chinamen wanting to take over the world, the domino theory, and the fact (sin of pride, this one) that "we had NEVER LOST a war." It took 58K youngsters before we said to hell with that. The name calling was quaint--anyone who opposed the war was a peace-loving (like it was a BAD thing, same as they do with the word LIBERAL now) dirty hippie, one of those dirty bra-burning FEMINISTS, free-love perverts, whatever. Those who wanted the troops out were portrayed as HATING AMERICA (sound familiar?).

What made it stop was when the "Silent Majority" (heartland GOP types, basically) started taking the hits too. And the media leapt all over them. You'd get mothers and fathers who were strong Nixon supporters suddenly switch allegiances in disgust when their kid came home maimed or in a box. They were so "square" (old term, but sums them up) and they were saying the same thing that the dirty hippies were saying. There were tons of interviews like this, people from all walks of life. It made for great television.

Then you had Dan Rather in his helmet, covering the battles, interviewing these kids who just said what they thought--not like this disciplined volunteer force, these drafted kids said "I hate this LOUD BLEEP war and I wanna go home. I miss my girl, my folks, my dog, my huntin' rifle..." The interviews were stunning. You also saw soldiers getting shot on the nightly news, the reporters ducking and just about wetting their pants, it was compelling. Then Walter Cronkite came out, the most trusted man in America, and said "THIS WAR CANNOT BE WON" or words to that effect. Nixon knew when he lost Cronkite, the game was over.

The press was way more aggressive than it is now (bunch of lameasses, now) but the way Nixon handled them was just to be unavailable. When he did a rare press conference, well, he is smarter than the current dunce, could think on his feet, and was very articulate. Sometimes he'd duck the question, but he was reasonably smooth about doing it, not like the chimp who has to have the questions prescreened so he can memorize his answer. He basically handled the press by totally ignoring them.

His White House was hyper-disciplined, in some ways the 'national feeling' back then is the same as the feeling is now--only now it is on steroids. There was a sense of gloom, doom, fear, anger, and an unnecessarily dangerous world made more so by our country's actions on the left, while the right would say "Shut the fuck up, you commie flag-burning, hippie, America hating, pot smoking pervert! AMERICA--LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!"

[daleo]

52. That is a great people's history.

I was a bit young to absorb it all at the time. All the war supporters should have to review this. But, as you say, much of the same phenomena are being play out again, especially the sidelining of the anti-war voices.

[saigon68]

53. You are absolutely right !!!

I was there I lived it. It was only after 12 years and 58,000 deaths and the equivalent of a trillion dollars we finally got our asses out of there.
This is why I am such of a pain in the ass here.

[leftchick]

54. Excellent recall there MADem!

I was only 10 in 1968 but I remember it exactly as you have stated. It is the fact that we basically have no free media in the USA that I fear the shit in Iraq will go on for a very long time. Americans just don't have a clue wtf is going on and just how bad it is.

:(

[jman0]

55. great video - what i saw

And what stands out to me is:
A confident resistance movement in contrast to that US soldier standing on the road: looking sheepish, unsure of himself and afraid.
And he damn well should be!