Pair Arrested for Telling Lawyer Jokes

[Rose Siding]

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. - Did you hear the one about the two guys arrested for telling lawyer jokes? It happened this week to the founders of a group called Americans for Legal Reform, who were waiting in line to get into a Long Island courthouse.

"How do you tell when a lawyer is lying?" Harvey Kash reportedly asked Carl Lanzisera.

"His lips are moving," they said in unison.

While some waiting to get into the courthouse giggled, a lawyer farther up the line Monday was not laughing.

He told them to pipe down, and when they did not, the lawyer reported the pair to court personnel, who charged them with disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor.
...
Americans for Legal Reform monitors the courts and uses confrontational tactics to push for greater access for the public. The pair said that for years they have stood outside courthouses on Long Island and mocked lawyers

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050112/ap_on_fe_st/lawyer_jokes_arrests_2

[DrWeird]

1. Oh, delicious irony.

They're going to be sorry.

[LisaM]

2. Jerks

One of my lawyer friends said that sometimes she doesn't even like to say she's a lawyer to people - the basically accuse her of being dishonest, and make mean jokes. There are a lot of fine lawyers out there.

[agarrett1]

3. Agreed

99% of the lawyers make the rest look bad.

Drew Garrett

[LisaM]

5. See that's the kind of thing they have to put up with

I have friends who do a ton of pro bono, who are in family law, who help refugees with their legal work, volunteered on election day (and spent all day at the polls), etc., etc., and despite the fact that they are out there doing good work, often for free, it seems to be perfectly acceptable to make this kind of joke all the time.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shrike]

18. Hundreds of thousands a year?

Maybe at one time but not anymore.

Too darn many of them out there -- competition's fierce.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do know that if you're unlucky enough to end up in the Public Defender's office you'll be moving back home with Mom and Dad.

[atre]

22. That's interesting

You think all lawyers make hundreds of thousands of dollars annually? According to AmLaw, the equity partners in the top 100 firms gross less than $500,000 per partner. That's the plateau; only a fraction of a percentage even come near that mark. The median salary in North Carolina (where there are fewer lawyers per SDP and per capita than all but one other state) is less than $100,000. Pharmacists, meanwhile, make that mark coming straight out of Pharmacy School if they go retail. There are very few lawyers who make "hundreds of thousands of dollars a year." Family lawyers, whom you also trashed collectively as rich snobs, make far less than other lawyers - a median less than $40,000 - which is shocking when you consider the investment it takes to get a Jurist Doctorate and a license these days.

I've never truly understood why lawyers are so maligned. Lawyers have had ethical lapses, particularly during the Watergate era, but nothing even remotely approaching what doctors are doing today in regards to pharmaceuticals. Accepting bonuses for prescribing certain drugs is not far off what Armstrong Williams has done, and in many ways it's actually much worse. But doctors still don't earn such ire for ethical failure that is now standard fare for the business. Only lawyers. Even politicians - far more corrupt - aren't so maligned.

If you look closely at what was the turning point in America as far as attitudes towards the legal profession, it was probably when lawyers moved their business out of the country clubs and boardrooms, into the streets. There are two significant events, both within the last fifty years: (1) lawyers' involvement in the civil rights movement and (2) the poor's increasing access to legal services (public defenders offices, legal services clinics, increasing lawyer advertising, adoption of new billing practices more amenable to the poor, namely contingency fees). Once lawyers became paragons of liberalism and began overwhelmingly attracting liberals to the profession, they became dangerous and the people in power had to stop them by controlling the language.

If this were a month or so ago, I would have lambasted the guy above for attacking lawyers with conservative propoganda. But upon further reflection, I'm not sure it's so simple. I don't recognize the username, but I would bet this guy was a Clark supporter. And the fact that he picked up on conservative propoganda has less to do with any ideological similarities with conservatives than with temporary psychological reassurance that conservative propoganda provided him during the Edwards- Clark wars. What's amazing to me is that the attitude still sticks with him, but I guess that's not so surprising considering the power of cognitive dissonance.

I've haven't done as much research into this as other psychological issues, but it seems to me that there's a psychological need for pariahs. I think people need someone or some group to hate. Look at the North/South issues; there is mutual derision (virtually always irrational and emotive). I think the most pronounced pariah groups in America today are Muslims, gays, and lawyers. Bush's people - possibly the "best" we've ever had at propoganda and psychological manipulation - have actually managed to effectively capitalize on all three three (and you could also argue that he capitalized on some Southerners' anti-Yankee attitudes by constantly trashing the state of Massachusetts).

Pariahism comes at a cost, too. Every study has shown that lawyers are far more likely than the general population to commit suicide, to have stress-related health problems, to develop addictions to drugs or alcohol. Next time you collectively attack lawyers, consider that.

[Tangledog]

28. It helps to know a few

Most of us meet lawyers under stressful circumstances. Divorces, evictions, arrests ... and that's just me!

A few things about lawyers: in many aspects of the law, you have to have a kind of combative personality. Even in a lot of civil actions, there might be a "negotiator" in the house, when the two sides are amenable to a settlement or are arguing over chump change, and also a "crusader" for when it's going to go to court. The "crusader" may have high ideals and wonderful ethics, but has to have the tenacity of a drowning rat, usually with a Briggs-Myers profile to match.

Another thing about lawyers: you gotta take their word for it that they really did do all those hours when the bill comes. These bills are inscrutable compared to plumbers or even a lot of doctors. "Lawyer insurance" is rare at best, and, as indicated above, the bills tend to hit in the wake of a divorce or injury, &c.

So there you have it: why people don't like lawyers. That'll be $75.00, please.

[shrike]

46. Nobody likes a lawyer until they need one

At least that's been my experience. I had to hire one recently (a really stupid problem with my driver's license) and he did a great job. Frankly, I'm glad I didn't go into that courtroom alone.

[alfredo]

6. Funny

The best Lawyer jokes I hear are told by my brother in law. He's a small town lawyer and good Liberal. It isn't just the jokes, but his timing.

[LisaM]

7. That's true - I think it's just the gratuitous ones that get me

No, I'm not a lawyer, but I have a ton of lawyer friends. I would hate it if everywhere I went people made jokes about my profession. Heck, I've made a few jokes about lawyers myself, but never unsolicited to a total stranger!

[alfredo]

43. Sometimes it is not what you do, but how

you do it. They were there to harass lawyers. That was their intent.

[TankLV]

11. And they have REALLY thin skins, apparently!

[UpInArms]

16. they must have just shed their old ones

(couldn't help myself)

know a ton of lawyers - 2% are decent human beings - the others? Well, I guess it's now I could get arrested (or flamed) by my opinion.

[atre]

23. Just out of curiosity, what is your profession?

nm

[UpInArms]

30. societal drop-out

currently :D

Use to be in the legal/real estate/banking profession.

[LizW]

9. It's true

I've had total strangers tell me an insulting joke as soon as they find out I'm a lawyer. What other profession has to put up with that?

Well, okay, used car salesmen get a bad rap, too.

[agarrett1]

14. Weathermen

I was a weatherman while I was in the Air Force. Let me assure you that there are 1 or 2 jokes about us.

Oh, and there appears to be an iron clad rule that when you tell some one you're a weatherman, the next words out of there mouth are required (possibly by law) to be, "So, what's the weather going to be tomorrow?"

Drew Garrett

[shrike]

19. Reporters and cops

I work in the media and people practically hold garlic when they talk to me.

[bvar22]

38. Mortitians....

....you know, the cold hands and all.......


Oh, and people who walk into bars with ducks under their arms.....a much maligned group.

Most guys I know who walk into bars with a duck are decent guys.

[shrike]

45. Oh, there are sleazy, immoral duck-handlers, too!

[warrens]

42. There are lots of sleazy, amoral, unethical, criminal ones out there too

Let's face it, the adversarial system, while probably necessary, makes it pretty difficult for someone with finely tuned ethics to make a living. There's a reason for all those jokes.

I happen to know a couple of lawyers who got out of the business because of the "if it's not TECHNICALLY illegal, it's OK" attitude.

[Xithras]

49. Most lawyers ARE dishonest

American law, whether we're talking criminal or civil, is confrontational and requires lawyers to represent or obscure the truth in a way that benefits their client. Most people, I think, recognize the need for lawyers to do this in order to present their clients case, but they also recognize the fact the entire profession is built around dishonesty.

BTW, my mom is an attorney, and she pushed for YEARS for me to go into law as well. I refused because, at the end of the day, I couldn't live with myself if I sprung a guilty murderer from jail, took money from an innocent small business, or put children into the custody of an abuser simply because my "client" demanded it and I happened to have a more persuasive argument than my opponent. I preferred a career where honesty was valued over money.

[nankerphelge]

4. Don't spread the story unless you were there

My guess is that the lawyer joke part of the sotry is a red herring and these guys really were causing a disturbance.

[Sinistrous]

8. "Disorderly Conduct" is always a bullshit charge.

It is used by the police et al. when they don't have anything with which to charge someone who pisses them off. It is often used to stifle expressions of uncomfortable truths. The vagueness of most "disorderly conduct" statutes is obscene.

[Sandpiper]

12. Cops defending the honor of lawyers

On what planet?

[Speed8098]

40. How Much

These guys are 65 & 68 years old, standing in line at a court house, how much of a disturbance do you really think they were causing?

[Sandpiper]

10. This sounds like the "woman gets 6 million for getting burned by coffee"

I'm betting there's a little more to this incident than what this story relates.

But I stopped expecting the media to be anything other than lazy and irresponsible a long time ago.

[mycatforpresident]

34. That case was about gross negligence...

the store was perfectly aware of a broken coffee machine that overheated the coffee to scalding temps. They did nothing about it for weeks on end, and employees had complained because they had been burned, though not as badly as the woman who sued. She had third degree burns all over the inside of her thighs, which required skin grafts and several surgeries and TONS of money. I believe also that she was partially disabled by the incident.

The thing about the press is that they print the sensational without giving all the facts. The six million was not excessive, because they had to punish McD's in a way that thinned the wallet significantly. A lousy $100,000 would have meant nothing to them. In risk management terms, it would be cheaper to hurt people and get sued than to make sure all the stores are safe. But sue for millions and they rethink the business plan a bit.

:thumbsdown:

[Megawatt]

51. removed by owner

second thoughts

[EVDebs]

15. Henry V : What's the first thing we do.....?

Punchline: Kill all the lawyers ! Looks like Bill the bard wouldst have been put in shackles ... Fortsoooth. Egad. Justice what justice ?

[Mechatanketra]

21. Out of context.

When the bard wrote "the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers", it wasn't to highlight the contemptibility of lawyers, but of the characters making the proposal.

[UKCynic]

39. Henry VI actually

It was Jack Cade's rebellion, but the line has got a laugh for the last 400+ years. It is followed by the mob murdering a man, on stage, because he can read. WS was not an admirer of what used here to be called 'the great unwashed' meaning the ignorant. I haven't looked it up, but it is the first time we see the rebels and I think that a rebel leader enters saying 'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.' For him they were to be first against the wall when the revolution came.

Many leaders of revolutions are lawyers. Lenin is a good example or practically any of the French revolutionary leaders. Were the leaders of the American Revolution lawyers? Not my field, I'm afraid.

[EVDebs]

41. Soooooo......if justice is served here, WHO will step up to defend

this pair PRO BONO ? Ah, I hear a stampede of courageous lawyers clamoring to do the deed (only in my dreams). The current crop of ambulance chasers will defend this pair of unfortunates only if enough money can be scraped together. Am I correct ?

[Ruby Romaine]

17. sorry -they sound rather odd!

Judge (no pun intended) for yourself

http://www.americans4legalreform.com/index.htm

[Deja Q]

20. It'd take a lawyer to spin the issue into a legal case.

:eyes:

Common sense and some maturity to tolerate some immaturity, folks. That works more wonders than a bunch opf bullshit laws designed to make a few richer and a few more given free room and board for the stupidest of excuses (sod it, they're not even reasons...)

[Festivito]

24. They need attny Voke, fifth attny Justin in family, name's good advice.

Justin Voke V

[sharpshooter]

25. Lawyers

I know a few personally that are very good people the rest that I know are motivated by one thing= money

[Festivito]

27. Look again, you missed the joke. And, welcome to DU.

Read the lawyer's name out loud to yourself. It will be the, sound, legal advice they needed.

Hey, we're all motivated by money. Some less than others, but, none who have none.

Cheers amigito.

[Tangledog]

29. Duhhhh...

I was wondering what's up with "just invoke vee".

[atre]

26. For those who jumped to conclusions, read more carefully

What is clear from the article is this: These two men were tort reformers, and they impliedly confess were trying to create an actionable disturbance. They were trying to turn this event into a print news article. You don't create a disturbance worthy of a citation merely by making lawyer jokes; you might by using a blowhorn or by accosting passers-by.

We don't know whether there really truly was an irate, "thin-skinned" lawyer who reported them, or if they were simply bothering someone else who reported them, or whether they reported themselves (usually a good idea to create publicity, ask the people from the infamous Lawrence v. Texas case).

We are given second-hand information.... This was a press release by ALR (one-sided and with selectively filtered information) turned into a news bit by a lazy journalist.

Take a gander yourself and see if you don't come to the same conclusions.

Speaking of lazy, all you people who assumed that these were two normal people on a street corner cracking jokes amongst themselves, victimized by a thin-skinned lawyer... you're wrong. I hope this is a lesson about jumping to conclusions, simply because they reinforce your hatred of a particular group of persons.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

44. But these two people did nothing more than crack jokes, right?....

Isn't it up to law enforcement to determine when a law has been really broken as opposed to using the law as a weapon?

Since when is telling jokes against the law? Since when is free speech against the law?

Maybe one day you'll be discussing a topic in public that gets you arrested. Let's see what you have to say then.

[shrike]

47. Thanks, I was too lazy to read the article myself

[Gman]

31. Why is a lawyer safe in the water when the water's full of hungry sharks?

Professional courtesy.

[Pallas180]

32. Had to be a republican lawyer. No democrat would breach freedom of

speech like that.

[Sgent]

33. Another thing....

Another seminal event in the Post WWII view that lawyers are snakes, sharks, etc...

The lift on the ban of advertising of legal services.

[Pert_UK]

35. How can you tell if a lawyer is a joyless tosser?

Well....he just is, isn't he? After all, he's a lawyer!

With apologies to my lawyer friends (one of whom spent 6 months in Iraq helping to rebuild the legal system, so they're not all bad).

[Radio_free_america]

36. Explain me why a TV transmited ugly joke on French

Don't provoque any lawsuite ?

[jdonaldball]

37. What do you get when you interbreed a lawyer with a pig?

Nothing. There are some things even a pig won't do.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

48. As a paralegal....

I have worked with laywers all my professional life. While some are decent human beings, approximately 60% of the ones I have dealt with are awful.


At the same time, almost all my bosses (2 were an exception) have been/are excellent people (and all but the aforementioned 2) and liberals :) who actually care about what they do more than they care about which law school they attended or how much money they make.

[Megahurtz]

50. LOL!!!

:7

[toopers]

52. All lawyer jokes . . .

started as used car salesmen jokes.