U.S. veteran: “We’re committing genocide in Iraq” (source uncertain)

[tomkertes]

UPDATE: What is aljazeera.com? (the source)
It is not http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage (thanks to da_chimperor)

Looks like it is not reliable. Read with caution.


U.S. veteran: “We’re committing genocide in Iraq”

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=6634

Source: http://www.aljazeera.com

The American marine entered Iraq as part of the initial American invasion in March 2003 and was witness, and in some cases took part in, the killing of innocent civilians. He says that in one 48-hour period, he witnessed the killing of some 30 civilians by U.S. gunfire at highway checkpoints. What changed Massey's view of the occupation was the sheer brutality of the American military's actions.


http://dailydraftdispatch.org


UPDATE: More on the source:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/about37017-30.html

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Would be more credible if it wasn't al Jazeera.

Not that I don't believe it.

[yinkaafrica]

3. I find al Jazeera to be fairly credible

And it sure looks like genocide to me.

[Bono71]

11. They are often not credible...

Note: this post does not mean Bono71 is pro-war, pro-*, or in anyway satisfied by the direction of the country.

[0007]

34. They are more often credible than not!

[haktar]

26. Check your sources

First this article was published in several sources and is credible

2nd. http://www.aljazeera.com is not much more than a blog.. So this wouldn't qualify as LBN by this rules

The real link to Al Jazeera is http://english.aljazeera.net

[GirlWithoutAPlanet]

5. He was written about in the Mother Jones article "Breaking Ranks" ...

I think it was in the issue before last..

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/11/10_400.html

Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey may be the most unlikely of the soldiers who have come out against the war. A Marine since 1992, he has been a recruiter, infantry instructor, and combat platoon leader. He went to Iraq primed to fight. “9/11 pissed me off,” he says. “I was ready to go kill a raghead.”


Jimmy Massey went to Iraq a gung-ho Marine, but returned shaken after killing civilians.


Shortly after Massey arrived in Iraq, his unit was ordered to man roadblocks. To stop cars, the Marines would raise their hands. If the drivers kept going, Massey says, “we would just light ’em up. I didn’t find out until later on, after talking to an Iraqi, that when you put your hand up in the air, it means ‘Hello.’” He estimates that his men killed 30 civilians in one 48-hour period.

[Straight Shooter]

29. Welcome to DU, GirlWithoutAPlanet

:hi:

[GirlWithoutAPlanet]

32. Thanks for the Welcome :) n/t

[BlueEyedSon]

7. I mean to say I would like to see this in a US paper/website.

[DrWeird]

8. We all know they're more credible.

:eyes:

[BlueEyedSon]

10. If it's true (and that is likely) it would be nice for the US public to

know about it.. :)

[Catchawave]

17. The public already does see:

http://www.pbs.org/greatspeeches/timeline/j_kerry_s.html

Remember him?

[LibertyorDeath]

24. LOL :) Yes if a more credible source reported this say

Fox News or CNN that would help a lot :eyes:

[tomkertes]

19. that is why I made the source very clear n/t

[leftchick]

33. I don't see any Corporate Owned Media types....

begging this guy for an interview. Hell the last of the honest story breakers, 60 Minutes, can no longer be counted on for breaking taboos.
Personaly I believe al Jazeera is very credible compared to the American propaganda machine.

[chomskysright]

50. I beg to differ: just sent this to Al Jazeera:

LOL, the dictatorial apple doesn't fall far from the Bush regime's tree: Allawi group slips cash to journalists --The electoral group headed by Iyad Allawi, interim Iraqi prime minister, yesterday handed cash to journalists to try to ensure coverage of its press conferences , in a throwback to Ba'athist-era patronage ahead of parliamentary 'elections' on January 30.

[PowerToThePeople]

2. Ya, Aljazeera is the MSM of the mid-east

Believe them about as much as I believe faux news.

[Stuckinthebush]

13. Why?

Al Jazeera has more access to what is really going on than our inbeds do.

[DrWeird]

15. Irrational hatred of all things muslim.

Standard freeper stuff. Al jazeera is unamerican, it's in league with al Qaeda. Yada. Yada. Yada.

[IndianaGreen]

39. How come all the Middle East autocrats hate Al-Jazeera?

How come Colin Powell has asked repeately for Qatar to censor this network?

It doesn't sound like a Faux News to me, but more like what the American press used to be liked before they were bought and sold.

[Magleetis]

4. No way, really?

Not the compassionate, peace loving, god fearing US of A. Tell me its not true.

[dkofos]

6. I would be more inclined to believe Al Jazeera

than faux

[Bouncy Ball]

9. Hear, hear dkofos

and nothing I have read about this surprises me.

There is a lack of a clear objective in Iraq.

There is a lack of enough troops to be able to secure any area, much less the entire country.

There is a power vaccuum in Iraq.

What would we expect, given those circumstances and other negative factors I didn't even mention? These guys were set up to fail.

Makes one wonder.

[VegasWolf]

12. That's not putting up much of a bar. I would trust the tea leaves

in my cat's shit more than faux. I've read thing's in
Al Jazerra that finally are admitted weeks later in BBC
releases or AP.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. You shouldn't let your cat eat tea leaves

It is bad for their system. :D

But I agree with you, nonetheless.

[VegasWolf]

16. LOL. I was using a metaphor for the shapes of their stools. n/t

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

41. The same MSM that told us Saddam had WMDs and that Bush won?

That's some source, isn't it?

[leftchick]

46. LOL! The war mongering "They Have WMD" MSM???

good God!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Thurston Howell IV]

18. Plenty of war crimes and an conscious disregard for human life, yes

but is it genocide? Are we actively attempting to kill off all Arabs, or Iraqis or Sunnis?

I haven't seen any evidence of this as policy yet.

[pippin]

44. gen-o-cide

gen-o-cide: The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

What else would you call what the US is doing in Iraq?

[Thurston Howell IV]

48. war crimes and im-pe-ri-al-ism

Imperialism:
1. any instance of aggressive extension of authority
2. a political orientation that advocates imperial interests
3. a policy of extending your rule over foreign countries

When people get in the way of these aims, they are generally killed. By the way, "getting in the way" may mean just innocent by-standing.
That's what I meant by "conscious disregard for human life" and war crimes. That's what's happening in Iraq.

I don't see that we've got a policy to exterminate all Iraqis. None have been rounded up here and killed, for example.

You might think it's splitting hairs, but war crimes and imperialism are bad enough. I think we lose some credibility by jumping to accusations of genocide.

BTW, I have no problem leveling the charge against the US. See Native American History, for example.

[bloom]

20. Some people may want to watch "Control Room"

Esp. if they think US media is "better" (I.E. more objective) than Al Jazeera.



I was afraid the word genocide would start popping up soon. (It's not like it's a remotely evenly matched war or anything).



On edit - missed a word.

[tomkertes]

22. Great film - really made me think differently about

the network and the news we get from the corporate media in the US. Very humanizing. Very interesting - and not like a 9/11 - it shows warts and all and really gives a complex experience.

[tomkertes]

21. If nothing else, it shows how the occupation

is being reported and understood in the Middle East.

[Magleetis]

25. Yes it does

the ME is getting the truth.

[diamond14]

27. yes. Just look at the rubble of Falluja.....350,000 people without

homes, water, food, medical care...all of them are dying or DEAD already....crushed...a whole city CRUSHED into rubble....with dogs eating the corpses....


THAT is GENOCIDE....

[da_chimperor]

28. I have . . . reservations about that site

This is the al-jazeera site I always visit: http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

[tomkertes]

38. so do I - Added reservations to the post and the title.

That is why I made certain that the source was clear.

Added reservations to the post and the title.

[IndianaGreen]

40. That site was the only one we had for Al-Jazeera in English

until Al-Jazeera was able to put up its English language website, Al-Jazeera.com was the one in which English-speaking readers had to go to read the English translation of Al-Jazeera news stories.

Check the DU archives at the time of the outbreak of the war and you will find several stories that used that website as the source. I know, I posted some of them. It was the only way to get Al-Jazeera. The other way was to use a translation tool to translate Arabic into English, it didn't work very well.

[da_chimperor]

42. Is it authentic? It seems to have a more outlandish cast to it

with the 'conspiracy theory' section on the right. I can't find any articles posted on both sites, and that makes me wary of it even though it does look legit. :shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

43. Massey told the same thing to the Washington Post

in an article I posted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1148121#1148300

Oftentimes when a thread goes on tangent as the source of a story, usually when it is a non-American source, it is because people don't want to discuss the topic, be it US atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan, or Arafat enriching himself at the expense of the Palestinian people.

[Barkley]

52. Massey told the same thing to Amy Goodman

Monday, May 24th, 2004
Ex-U.S. Marine: I Killed Civilians in Iraq
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/24/148212

[leftchick]

30. Brave Man.....

~snip~


As a recruiter with the American military, Massey began to question the methods used by the Marines which targeted young people from economically depresses areas.

"I'm not going to say that the Marine Corps is all flat-out lies, but it is very misleading the way we enlist recruits. A lot of the kids joining the military are from the 'barrios' and 'hoods,' or the poor parts -so they're sweeping them up."

Massey believes that due to the economic situation in the U.S. there exists what can be called an 'economic draft' of young Americans into the military.

"A large percentage of the so-called growth in this country is associated with the military. The bottom line is, for the Halliburtons and Enrons war is good, but for the poor and for all of the soldiers coming home, especially the ones coming home wounded, there's not much of a future. But for a lot of the kids getting ready to graduate high-school, the military is looking pretty good because their families have no money to send them to college."

Massey's disillusionment with the war in Iraq came to head when he saw the army the U.S. military faced. The world's strongest military carrying the most technologically advanced weapons up against the military of a country devastated by a decade of sanctions.

Massey says, "There wasn't a whole lot of direct fighting to speak of. There were some firefights but it wasn't like major combat action…They had no artillery; they had no air support. They were so weakened by all the sanctions. All of their equipment was in very bad shape. Most of their hardware was left over from the war against Iran. The first Gulf War just devastated them. I don't think they had the will or the opportunity to fight."

[prayin4rain]

36. Yes, very brave man. n/t

[pokercat999]

49. I got caught up in the 'economic draft' in 72.

Working in a factory outside Philly with a wage freeze on, the military looked like my only "out". I was lucky not to have been sent to Vietnam. With the war grinding to a halt about the time I finished boot camp I spent my entire 3 year commitment in the good old US of A. Everything considered I was much better off than a lot of my friends in civilian life.

A side note: I persuaded my son to promise that he would never serve in the military. Peace Corp, VISTA ok, military never!

[Massachusetts]

31. History repeats

Kerry said the same thing to the senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971 and was ostracized by MANY americans (emphasis on small a intended).

Massey will get the same treatment from the MORONS and CHICKEN HAWKS also, to bad, but thats life in OUR country.:grr:

[IndianaGreen]

35. Washington Post: Former Marine Testifies to Atrocities in Iraq

For those that won't believe a story unless it is printed in an American newspaper (I guess Americans are racially superior when it comes to mendacity):

Former Marine Testifies to Atrocities in Iraq
Unit Killed Dozens of Unarmed Civilians Last Year, Canadian Refugee Board Is Told

By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, December 8, 2004; Page A20

TORONTO, Dec. 7 -- A former U.S. Marine staff sergeant testified at a hearing Tuesday that his unit killed at least 30 unarmed civilians in Iraq during the war in 2003 and that Marines routinely shot and killed wounded Iraqis.

Jimmy J. Massey, a 12-year veteran, said he left Iraq in May 2003 after a diagnosis of post-traumatic stress. He said he and his men shot and killed four Iraqis staging a demonstration and a man with his hands up trying to surrender, as well as women and children at roadblocks. Massey said he had complained to his superiors about the "killing of innocent civilians," but that nothing was done.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45313-2004Dec7.html

[IndianaGreen]

37. And here is the interview that Masey gave to WSWS

which I am sure that those of you that recoil at anything that has the name socialist as part of the name will quickly reject as invalid. (I guess this means that we must believe the neocon Progressive Policy Institute just because it has the name "progressive" in the title).

Iraq veteran Jimmy Massey speaks to the WSWS
“We’re committing genocide in Iraq”
By Jeff Riedel
11 November 2004

Massey’s disillusionment with the military began as a recruiter, when he started to question the methods used by the Marines in preying on young people from economically depressed areas. His feelings would soon be deepened by his experience in Iraq.

“When I was on recruiting duty, I really began to question what was going on,” he said. “I’m not going to say that the Marine Corps is all flat-out lies, but it is very misleading the way we enlist recruits. A lot of the kids joining the military are from the ‘barrios’ and ‘hoods,’ or the poor parts of the Appalachian Mountains, where we’re sitting right here. Appalachia has some of the poorest counties in the country—so they’re sweeping them up.

“You know, these kids are just thankful that they’ve got some health care—for a lot of them, the first time they even went to the dentist is when they joined the Marine Corps. Then you pump them full of patriotism and intangible benefits—self-confidence and what not—and now you’re indoctrinating a young person with an ideology.

“Boot camp is designed to dehumanize and desensitize a person to violence. I was a Marine Corps boot camp instructor for two-and-a-half years, and I know that it is designed to strip you down and rebuild you. The only purpose of the Marine Corps is to meet the enemy on the battlefield and destroy them.”

Massey asserted that, given the economic conditions in the US today, there exists what amounts to an economic draft of young Americans into the military.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/vet-n11.shtml

[leftchick]

45. WaPo Link For All the USA media Lovers!!!

Thanks for posting this for the doubters IG. I read al Jazeera all of the time and have no problem with it.

[IndianaGreen]

47. We might need a link to Begala and Carville commenting on Massey

You know how some people are, if they don't hear it from the Pope (figuratively speaking) they won't believe it. This is probably why there as some that still believe that invading Iraq was a good idea to save us from WMDs.