Tet offensive reverberates 37 years later in Iraq

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16231430.htm

WASHINGTON, Jan 16 (Reuters) - Iraq's Jan. 30 elections fall on the 37th anniversary of the Tet offensive, the Vietnam War turning point that could hold lessons for Iraqi insurgents and U.S. policy makers anticipating more violence that could test American resolve.

Iraq's insurgents lack the coordination, manpower and resources to execute the equivalent of the jolting attacks launched by communist forces in nearly every major city in U.S.-backed South Vietnam on the nights of Jan. 30 and Jan. 31, 1968, experts said.

But they said the experience of the Tet offensive may show Iraqi rebels how to prevail against a vastly stronger U.S. force, by using audacious attacks to score psychological and political triumphs.

"The fundamental lesson of the Tet offensive is not the immediacy of the event, but it is about the political will of the United States, and how you grind at that and you never let up on that, never lose focus on it," said Marine Col. Thomas Hammes, a leading military expert on insurgencies.

Iraq's insurgents, experts said, may try to stage high-profile attacks to disrupt the parliamentary elections -- touted by the Bush administration as a key milepost of progress -- with the same goal as communist forces in Vietnam: making the Americans go home.

more

[DELUSIONAL]

1. Home field advantage

Fighting occupation forces.

Fallujah is a rallying point for Iraqis -- bushie is really a uniter.

[BikeWriter]

4. Yes, he is. He's uniting all Muslims against us. Just as bin Ladin planned

:(

[jmcgowanjm]

2. No one is more blind than those who would not see

In late January of 2005, as in late January of 1968, we have
the bastard child called illegitimate war, sired by lies
and delivered from the womb of the mother called
the omnipotent State, with identical dynamics: a
psychopathic administration and war department, a military
led by political whores who would not give credence to
any intelligence that contradicts the psychobabble of
that administration, a growing resistance that has been
terribly underestimated, and a nation whose majority is asleep
at the wheel.

God save our fine soldiers, at least those who have seen
this war for what it is.

http://uruknet.info/?s1=2&p=8873&s2=15

[BikeWriter]

3. I saw the Tet close up. It was no fun at all.

:(

[brentspeak]

7. Was it anything like in "Full Metal Jacket"?

Burned out buildings with snipers? Saigon looking like Stalingrad?

[BikeWriter]

12. I only saw one part of it. Mostly incoming mortars, rockets, & small arms.

:(

[saigon68]

25. It was Cholon at the Phu Tho Racetrack

http://members.aol.com/thays46945/PTR.htm

I was near there

[Sterling]

45. Wow thx for posting this story.

That was some deep shit you guys were in.

[TahitiNut]

9. I assume you mean Tet68. I did Tet69. Even less fun.

:shrug:

[BikeWriter]

13. Welcome home, Brother Vet. Thank you for serving America.

:-)

[TahitiNut]

17. Batckatcha, bro'.

Long Binh USARV HQ '69 (Jan-Nov) - SP/5, 74F30 (REMF)

[LynnTheDem]

24. Are you saying

that you rear echelon mother-fuckers even call yourselves rear echelon mother-fuckers? ;) :D

[BikeWriter]

28. Nothing like a war to make a realist of a person. n/t

[LynnTheDem]

29. Very true...can we send bush & Cartel over for some training in reality???

PLEASE!!!

[BikeWriter]

30. They deserve the crash course! n/t

[TahitiNut]

32. Hell, I'll even admit I pissed myself.

Sure wouldn't have wanted to do that every day. :scared:

[LynnTheDem]

38. I was hoping this country would never do it again.

:hug:

[Ernesto]

10. Funny how McNamara could see "the light @ the end of the tunnel"

From my perspective, (a USMC combat base west of Danang) all I could see was "the shit hittin' the fan". And it went on for weeks all over I corps & the rest of the country.

[BikeWriter]

14. I thanked you for your service in another thread, Ernesto, but here it is

again! :-)

[Ernesto]

40. Thanks to the BikeWriter

You been there, seen it, done it.
I Salute YOU, Amigo!

[saigon68]

27. The "LIGHT" at the End of the Tunnel

Was really the "HEAD LAMP" on a Huge Heavy COAL TRAIN coming right at us thu the Tunnel.

[tabasco]

36. Thank You all Vietnam Vets !

Thank you for standing up against this corrupt administration which has brought us another tragic war.

How many must die this time before we realize we cannot rule the world?

[Maat]

48. I echo that sentiment. Thanks for your service.

I was about 14 when we left Vietnam finally. I don't get why we didn't learn our lesson permanently.

But, here we go again ...

[pandemic_1918]

42. Watch the Food Supply

Watch what happens to the food supply in Vietnam during Tet celebrations

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=h5n1+food

[parkia00]

5. Yet to happen?

Unfortunately I think something like the Tet offensive has yet to happen in Iraq. The mess we see today is everyday mess. And I also unfortunately think there will be an Iraqi "Tet". It's just a matter of time.

[0007]

6. Hilarious commercial! 'Jim Bob' who runs FR

[BikeWriter]

15. I agree completly with you. Iraq will get worse before it gets better.

:(

[catmandu57]

8. TET was a suprise

Anyone who gets suprised by the coming esculation has really been sleepwalking.

[mojavekid]

11. It is not in our soldier's interests to blow themselves up

to take out a few insurgents, Behead relief workers for helping the children of insurgents and torturing contractors attempting to re-build what was blown up yesterday.

Those of you who fought in Vietnam - Me, much too young, must see the writing on the wall in Iraq.

I want to add, that I have a profound respect for all of you who have served, whether Volunteer or Draft - Thank you.

[BikeWriter]

16. Thank you for showing your respect, Mojave.

It means a lot to us.

[mojavekid]

18. Well, you all have EARNED it. n/t

[Selatius]

19. These Vietnam-Iraq comparisons hit a nerve with me

My family lived in Vietnam during that war. They moved to the US after Saigon fell. They suffered tremendously, and it's a sore spot with me. Iraqi families are now going through what my folks went through 30 to 40 years ago. It is my ancestral homeland people are talking about when they talk about Vietnam, my legacy.

If you want to know what it's like to be occupied and beaten down by a foreign superpower, try imagining what it's like to lose your home, members of your family, and your livelihood. It's a hell of a lot different than fighting a war in a foreign land. All you have to do is go home back to your surroundings. Well, my family didn't have that luxury. They lived in the war zone. They were all bullshiting us (the gov'ts of South Vietnam, North Vietnam, the US, the Viet Cong, the Chinese and Russians who supported Hanoi), just trying to use us as cannon fodder or target practice. We were pawns in a chess match.

My family knows it well. It's nice to talk about how great one's country is. All we could talk about was how devastated and broken our country was. None of you know what its like to be stomped on by a superpower, to have mile after mile of countryside cratered, mined, booby trapped, and poisoned. Not in 130 years has there been a war fought on US soil.

Maybe Vietnam wasn't enough. Maybe 58,000 dead soldiers in Vietnam wasn't enough of a lesson in the American psyche to be war shy. Maybe if Americans went through what Europeans went through 60 years ago with 50,000,000 dead people by war's end instead, Americans would never have fallen so utterly for the idea of "pre-emptive war." How 'bout it, folks? Wasn't that the last time some insane leader invoked "pre-emption" as a justification?

[olddad56]

20. wow, very powerful, I hope everyone on this board will read your post.

You paint a very real and poignant portrait of what it is like to have your life shattered by the senseless devastation that our government committed against your family and your country.

I was one of probably a million young kids, fresh out of high school that joined the service to avoid being drafted. Like most of us, we were young and naive. We bought the whole 'fight communism, serve you country, military obligation' bullshit, lock, stock and barrel.

I bought the whole charade until I got to Vietnam, started smoking pot and thinking about the Vietnamese as people like me, not some inferior species. My job wasn't dangerous and I didn't have to kill anyone, but it still had a profound impact on my life. I knew that what we were doing as wrong and even then, I thought that someday, this type of government behavior will come home to rest. Then and only then, will Americans understand why you don't just casually invade other countries. You defend your country, but you don't invade other people's homeland.

On behalf of the American's who know our government was evil then and is now, I want to tell you that I'm sorry for what my government did to your people and your homeland.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

21. Powerful. This comparison hits me too. I was protesting the Vietnam War.

On a very different kind of front line for the war, the streets in the US.

When I was six, I saw photos of Nazi concentration camp victims.
When I was 7 years old in 1968, I marched in anti-war protests.

At a protest, an older woman asked my mother if I knew why was protesting. My mother told her "he sure does."

The woman said "Good. When I was a little girl, we protested against Hitler in Austria."

I never thought that I would be protesting against the grandson of a man who financed Hitler's rise to power and built his war machine, US Senator Prescott Bush.

We have been suffering under the same fascist rat-bastards for 80 years now in this country, the Bush Family Evil Empire.

[Zhade]

22. Best post in this thread.

NT!

[pokercat999]

23. I agree with most every thing you say but.

"Maybe Vietnam wasn't enough. Maybe 58,000 dead soldiers in Vietnam wasn't enough of a lesson in the American psyche to be war shy. Maybe if Americans went through what Europeans went through 60 years ago with 50,000,000 dead people by war's end instead, Americans would never have fallen so utterly for the idea of "pre-emptive war." How 'bout it, folks? Wasn't that the last time some insane leader invoked "pre-emption" as a justification?"

How do you explain Blair and his fascists dogs in the UK? This "war" in Iraq is much like Hitler's war in Europe, just on a smaller scale, for now. Of course the Germans were cruder in their treatment of Jews than we are in the treatment of Arabs, although given enough time we may match their viscousness.

[NNN0LHI]

31. Not sure how much cruder one can get while shooting wounded and...

...unarmed human beings (Iraqis) in the head. That sounds pretty close to how the Nazis operated. I may be wrong on this? But I am afraid I'm not.

Don

[LynnTheDem]

26. RIGHT ON!

EXACTLY true! A war on US soil would fast wake America up to the TOTAL HELL America has been unleashing around the world the past 50+ years.

Pre-emptive war? Isn't that what PEARL HARBOR was?

[TahitiNut]

34. Well said, my friend. (Namasté to you and your parents.)

You say, "They were all bullshiting us (the gov'ts of South Vietnam, North Vietnam, the US, the Viet Cong, the Chinese and Russians who supported Hanoi), just trying to use us as cannon fodder or target practice. We were pawns in a chess match."

Right on.

Over two years ago on DU, I did my best to portray part of my view of the 'World of Lies' that was my own Vietnam experience. You can read it at http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5010&forum=DCForumID60&archive=

Maybe it shows your family weren't alone in seeing that. It took me many, many years to even partly comprehend much of what I saw and experienced, no small part of which was the personal sense of honor I saw modeled by the individual Vietnamese people with whom I came in contact. They changed my life.

[Ernesto]

35. Selatius, YOU ROCK

We need more voices like yours.... I went to your homeland as a naive kid trying to do the "right thing". It didn't take too long to realize that we Americans were the real "bad guys" in that tragedy.
However, when 2 cats are tied tail to tail & then hung on a clothes line, guess what happens...... A fight to the death. It happened in Vietnam & it is happening now in Iraq.
My heart goes out to the Iraqi people & our ignorant young military people that have been sucked into this totally avoidable quagmire.
And my thanks go to the well paid republican ideologues that have turned mother earth into (as Marines say) "a world of shit".

[kineneb]

49. thanks for the truth

and peace be with you. I was 10 in '68 so Vietnam is burned into my psyche. My entire childhood seemed to be framed by the war.

And I see the same damn lies being repeated. So families like Selatius's in Iraq are living through the same kind of hell. Until we stop buying into the darkness of fear, we will never be free from this misery.

"And it 1,2,3 what are we fighting for?"

[jasop]

50. You are the REAL hero of the Vietnam War

I applaud you and everything you expressed and stand for... we should all learn something from your experience. The lesson is that war is a game to those in power. Lets think long and hard about this.

[pandemic_1918]

33. Tet Offensive 2005 - H5N1 Bird Flu

The real Tet offense is by H5N1 bird flu in 2005 and it has definitely begun.

It looks like enemy has contaminated the food supply in Vietnam, is threatening Tsunami relief camps, and now may have changed uniforms in North Vietnam

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=h5n1+food+vietnam&ie=UTF-8

[mojavekid]

37. "Hi Pandemic!"

I am happy to see your post here!, I look forward to them for the update on Bird Flu, which I consider a real threat. I have a question for you if you don't mind; Which countries currently are seriously working on a vaccination and how far along are they?

Thanks!

mojavekid

[pandemic_1918]

41. Attacking the Central Highlands

The Attack by H5N1 has now moved to the Central Highlands where almost 100% of tested ducks are positive but don't have symptoms (but the virus is lethal in humans)

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=h5n1+food

Keeping this out of the food chain will be a challenge.

The two companies working on a pandemic vaccine are the same two who are FDA approved in the US (Aventis-Sanofi and Chiron). Chiron still has issues with contamination. I believe Aventis clinical trails are slated to begin this month. Vaccine is made in Stillwater, PA and I think some trials are in MD.

[pandemic_1918]

43. Human to Human Transmission of H5N1 in Northern Vietnam

Looks like human to human transmission of H5N1 in Northern Vietnam

http://news.google.com/news?q=h5n1%20brother&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn

This morning IDBE in Canada announced it was moving forward on its pandemic vaccine.

[pandemic_1918]

44. Brother of Fatal Pneumonia Case Positive for Bird Flu

The brother of a fata pneumonia case has tested positive for bird flu even though he has no reported exposure to infected nirds. Sounds like human to human transmission of H5N1 in Northern Vietnam

http://news.google.com/news?q=h5n1%20brother&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn

[pandemic_1918]

46. Hong Kong Attacked

Novel (recombinant) genes found in Hong Kong last month

http://news.google.com/news?q=h5n1%20recombination&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn

Tet Offensive going international. More outbreaks in Thailand and respiratory case there being tested.

[pandemic_1918]

47. 3 Generations of Bird Flu Transmission

Vietnam will be chaos by Tet. Looks like 3 generations of human to human transmission. Assay doesn't detect new virus well. Probably in food. Situation going down hill by the hour

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=h5n1+transmission+human&btnG=Search+News

[pandemic_1918]

52. Pneumonias Getting More Complex - No Prisoners

The pneumonias in Vietnam are getting more complex. Case fatality rate running at 90%. Situation deteriorating hourly (over 400,000 birds culled)

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=bird+flu+1918+pandemic+dengue

The virus is NOT taking prisoners.

[pandemic_1918]

54. Big Guns (Recombinants) Have Opened Up

Tet Offensive in full battle mode. The big guns (recombinants) have opened up and the victims can't even see the enemy.

http://news.google.com/news?q=bird%20flu%20recombinants&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn

Pandemic preparedness remains a cruel joke and this will NOT be pretty.

[pandemic_1918]

56. More Human to Human Transmission

More human to human (brother to sister) transmission. This time in southern Vietnam

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=nn&ie=UTF-8&q=H5N1+%22human+to+human%22+sister+vietnam+thailand&btnG=Search+News

[pandemic_1918]

57. 3rd Bother Positive for H5N1

Third brother has tested positive for H5N1 so now 4 of the 19 confirmed cases liked to likely human to human transmission

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=nn&ie=UTF-8&q=bird+flu+transmission+human

[Massachusetts]

39. We will continue to question, challenge and change OUR government.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism". George Washington

[caligirl]

51. Doubt they remembered, or knew, about this in choosing a date?n/t

[Bo]

53. Lets Rock And Roll on the Tet

Fukin half the sheeple do not know what it is

[pandemic_1918]

55. Tet Offensive Fight Song

The fight song of the bird flu recombinants

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.