Large SUVs lose luster, cost Big 3 (Detroit News headline article)

[Bozita]

frontpage headline article as the auto show begins

Tables and related articles at link


http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/16/A01-60827.htm

2005 North American International Auto Show

Sunday, January 16, 2005

Large SUVs lose luster, cost Big 3

Detroit's biggest moneymakers take a hit as Americans opt for midsize vehicles.

By Brett Clanton / The Detroit News


Sales of hugely profitable full-size sport utility vehicles like the Chevy Tahoe and Ford Expedition are slowing down after zooming out of showrooms for years.

The cooling of America's love affair with the largest SUVs is a troubling sign for Detroit automakers, which count on the vehicles to prop up their bottom lines.

The typical full-size SUV now takes more than three months to sell -- up from a little more than a month in 2002 -- despite carrying more than $4,000 in rebates. That may explain why full-size SUVs -- the star of the North American International Auto Shows in years past -- were virtually ignored this year as automakers showed off a host of smaller crossover vehicles, fuel-sipping hybrids and boxy small cars.

"Their time seems to be over," BMW Chief Financial Officer Stefan Krause said last week. "You don't see huge SUVs here as you would have seen two years ago."

more...

[Straight Shooter]

1. People are starting to read the prices at gas stations

It isn't a pretty sight. Maybe *gasp!* they're even noticing that our troops are dying in an oil-grab scheme.

[MSgt213]

5. No kidding. I know several people who have SUV and Trucks and never

drive them anymore.

[barb162]

16. my girlfriend bought a Durango 2 yrs ago and I think she is very

sorry she did that; 15 mpg or something similar

[MSgt213]

20. Yea, I got a Durango. I feel for her.

[barb162]

22. she rarely drives it, opts for the sedan most of the time because of

the mileage.

[MSgt213]

23. You got a smart lady there. Definitely a keeper

[Lautremont]

2. Well thank goodness for that.

I often fantasize about using my mental powers to break all their rods in two.

[Rowdyboy]

3. Its about time!

I'd love to see the damned things taxed to death! They're a pain in the ass to contend with, you can't see around them, and most are driven by people who seem to think that because their vehicle is larger, they have the right-of-way.

[Skittles]

4. you know it Rowdyboy

I am absolutely sick of SUVs and I am sick of the people who claim they have an excuse to drive one of those montstrosities. SICK OF IT!!!

[ekhunter]

48. c'mon i need an suv to pull my boat.

i'm not going to pull my boat with the sedan.

[eleonora]

6. good! Kill'em in the wallet first

maybe that those high oil prices are a good thing in the long run.

[Bozita]

7. Hummer sales down 27%; Expeditions down 24%

from the table

[mitchum]

13. Hummer sales down 27%?

Does that mean penile enhancement surgery has risen 27%?

[Talisyn]

24. Exactly, Mitchum

Compensation consumerism.



Tali

[porkrind]

28. Check out this funny ant-Hummer site: FUH2.com

http://www.fuh2.com

[Swamp Rat]

8. Good!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

9. Good!!!

"SUV's"???

more like "Terrorist Wagons"!

[meow2u3]

17. I call these big SUV's .....

Terrorism on wheels

[DS1]

26. Family Assault Vehicles

Guaranteed to be full of lazy fucks hunting the best parking spot for hours :eyes:

[AndyTiedye]

38. "Family" might be the key word here

People with families tend to buy cars that the whole family can fit into.
The usual "family car" used to be a station wagon.
Station wagons are cars, and have been getting smaller, like other cars,
to meet fuel efficiency standards. They have gotten too small for some families.
My sister's family is an example. (None of them are lazy or overweight,
but her hubby and three teenage kids are all over 6' tall).

Most SUVs are trucks, a different category under the regulations, so
they have not been downsized like the cars.

The SUV has become the new "family car", in part as an unintended
consequence of some generally good regulations.

[DukeBlue]

42. Agree

I drove (still drive) a suburban around for my business. Old as the hills, still runs. However it was great on road trips with the kids. My wife has driven many different types of cars, none particularly comfortable to drive to Florida with kids. The burban made those trips tolerable. Not driving like an asshole is the key. I ride a motorcycle and drive the way I ride very carefully and super defensive. Never had a major accident. If everyone had to learn to drive on a motorcycle there would be a lot less dickhead driving imho.

Minivans get poor gas mileage and are just as likely to roll if you put one in the position to do so. I guess they are better than an SUV but not by much.

Toyota makes large SUVs but the 4runner is a great vehicle. Runs forever.

A crown vic is big but gets poor mileage, is expensive, and everyone thinks you are a cop. I got stuck in one as a rental, never again. My diesel jetta commuter car is perfect. Safe, reasonably priced, and efficient. And I can use the labs to whip up high mix biodiesel in the summer.

[KittyWampus]

45. Funny, We All Grew Up (Family of 5) Without A Suburban. That Included

road trips every winter to Florida for Christmas vacation.

European families manage to vacation and take care of their families without Suburbans.

Americans are totally spoiled when it comes to the personal space the y insist on occupying.

The Latino families working around here tend to share houses, bedrooms and beds.

The American families want their McMansions.

It's Materialism gone amok.

[DukeBlue]

51. Different culture

Europeans I deal with like to drive. Some drive big v12 Mercedes 5 sedans, some drive Porsche 911s, others like Opel or Peugeot. They like driving as much as we do. They like fast motorcycles too.

I could have tried to cram the kids and their stuff in my car or my wifes car but the burban got the job done. They have a seat to themselves and fought less. This was before SUVs were sold as family sedans. If you don't drive like an asshole I don't see the problem in using a big vehicle, or any vehicle.

I don't see a problem with people having nice homes or earning lots of money. My wifes doctor friends run the political gambit as do my chemical engineers friends. Having nice stuff because you earn it is not a bad thing.

Many Hispanics (Indians, Russians, etc) own large homes, drive expensive cars or SUVs in my area. They came here because they could make lots of money and get good jobs by going to school and working hard.

[tabasco]

53. The huge majority of European cars are four-bangers ..

that that get over 30 mpg. Of course, they can travel on efficient public transportation too. Europe is decades ahead of us in all areas of environmental responsibility. Your attempted point is weak.

America will suffer because of our short-sightedness and our consume-consume-consume society. Our failure will fall mainly on our children and grandchildren, who will be left with a devastated environment.

[readmylips]

10. I've owned my car for 10 years...

looks and runs like brand new, except for yearly maintenance expenditures. We've been looking to update my car to a newer model, but last week we read that the cars are now being made in small town America and many parts made in Mexico, and they are braking down just like all shitty American-made cars. My car was built in Stuttgart, Germany, Mercedes Benz.

[CreekDog]

11. Detroit gets it wrong again, did Toyota make this mistake?

Think about this, while Ford and GM were perfecting behemoth SUV's and resisting higher mileage regulations, and additional environmental protections, Toyota was perfecting its design on a hybrid vehicles and Honda was adding to their lineup of Ultra Low Emission and Super Ultra Low Emission vehicles. Which automakers made the smartest choices?

Also, look at the assumptions each automaker would have to make and Ford and GM's decision will really make you steam:

Toyota: Americans would crave higher mileage and lower emission vehicles for a number of reasons (higher gas prices eventually would come, air pollution would be a significant concern for many customers).

Honda: ditto to Toyota

Ford/GM: Gas prices? (What me worry?!).

Is it the 1970's all over again?!

Ford and GM need to have an exchange program where their management team invites a Toyota or Honda exec. to judge their management decisions and learn from them. Clearly, Ford and GM make short term decisions that hurt their companies again and again.

[TheFarseer]

21. That's what I've been saying

American auto makes aren't getting beat up from paying too much for American labor. Honda and Toyota make alot of cars in the USA and it seems to work for them. Their problem is they're forever behind the curve. They don't recognize the trends until they're getting clobbered by the guy that DOES see the trend. That's their problem!

[AndyTiedye]

39. Ford Is Selling a Hybrid SUV Now

Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid for this model year.
It is the most fuel-efficient SUV on the market.
It is a full hybrid, so it switches to electric mode at slow speeds,
for a huge increase in efficiency in traffic (and an even bigger
reduction in pollution).
They are selling them as fast as they can make them, loaded,
never below list price and often at a premium,
while gas-powered SUVs gather rust on the lots despite huge rebates.
I think they have gotten the message.

I have an Escape Hybrid, and I'm a happy camper.

[KittyWampus]

44. So Their Hybrid SUV's Still Endanger Other Drivers On The Road?

Are they still prone to rolling over?

Are they still to big to fit into parking spaces?

[NervousRex]

43. Honda and Toyota

have great cars, but also contribute to the problem:



How many gallons to the mile does this piece of shit get?

[Tweed]

12. This is great news!

[Dover]

14. Can't imagine what the resale on those awful Humvees will bring

as this trend progresses. Of course...those that can afford to buy them can afford to take a financial hit too, no doubt.

Hard to believe automakers have such nearsightedness as to miss the trend away from gas guzzling behemoths. Are they actually believing the propaganda or just discovering that people are smarter than that?

[not fooled]

34. how they can afford them...

"Of course...those that can afford to buy them can afford to take a financial hit too, no doubt."

due in large part to shit-for-brain's massive tax subsidy for behemoth SUVs.

the idiots who want to be seen driving around in Hummers can write off most of the cost because of *'s SUV tax break. Talk about an excuse to burn oil!

Also makes shitheads appreciate * because he facilitates their pointless wasteful excess.

[catmandu57]

15. they've been advertising these damn hummers

like crazy during the football playoffs, I'll be so glad to see these monstrosities go, the only trouble is the weak brained people who were taken in by the suv message will still be around ready to go with the next gotta have bullshit.
Me, I'm going to buy a golfcart, that's all I need.

[Karenina]

18. When y'all start paying

what gas REALLY COSTS, those idiotic monstrosities will disappear from the landscape so fast it will make your head spin.

[Talisyn]

25. It never bothered me to see high gas prices

It's a price we haven't been paying for too long a time. I really agree Karenina, until the cost of it begins to count, the general public is going to remain comfortably ignorant and undemanding of alternative fuels and technologies.



Tali

[TheFarseer]

19. I'm not seeing that on the road

but if it's true it's about time we got some good news around here.

[Carni]

27. This will kill GM

The only thing profitable at General Motors since the late 80's has been their truck lines.

[Fovea]

29. Good

They have needed to die.
But then, so has the I.C. private automobile.
For the freedom it promises, it returns so many
evils.

[DukeBlue]

33. Union Jobs

Tens of thousands of them, gone. SUVs are worthless but GM is keeps a lot of people fed.

GM is not going away.

[Fovea]

46. I am pro union

But the private I.C. vehicle should not be the transportation
paradigm for 75% or better or Americans.

GM knew the story in 1973, but they and Reagan sabotaged energy conservation in the 80's. For this, they should lie down and go away.
The magnatude of this problem is just starting to be understood.

Google for the story about the recent proof about particulates and the change in planitary albedo. It appears that the only keeping us from
a rapid 10C upward shift in global temp is the huge amount of atmospheric particulates that are reducing surface ensolation by as much as 20% in some area.

What they are not saying, is that the atmosphere is no gaining the ability to retain larger amounts of moisture in the middle bands, due to the effect of ensolation on particulates in the upper jet stream.
This means an increased carrying capacity (higher absolute humidity)
and extreme precipitation events will be far more common, indeed, they may become the default by 2100.

So, we can either breathe air that causes asthma in kids, heart attacks in the elderly, and lung cancer in all age groups or we can say goodbye to the ice caps in the next decade and accept a world with- between ocean loss, frequent flooding in river valleys, and places that are too hot to live- about half the habitable space it currently contains.

Even I, sick as I am, may live to see a lot of this. Terrorism does not frighten me. THIS FRIGHTENS ME.

[DukeBlue]

52. I agree IC

sucks (and blows). Hopefully a alternative source for energy will be put on the market.

I will google the story. I love science and hope some grad student blows up a lab and comes up with cold fusion.

I do thing the issue of our effect on the planet will become more relevant to the public only when it require drastic measures. Sadly.

[hatrack]

30. It's worse than that

Aside from truck lines in the late 1990s, the only profitable division for GM in 2003 was their home-mortgage section.

[Carni]

32. That doesn't surprise me in the least!

Of the big three I have the least respect for GM based on personal experience!

[hatrack]

35. Which reminds me of some primo Detroit spin

The constant refrain that Honda and Toyota "lose money on every hybrid they sell".

Both companies claim to have passed break-even on hybrid models. More to the point, GM, Ford and DC now lose money on EVERY CAR they sell. Their only automotive profit centers are trucks & SUVs.

[Carni]

36. I hear you

Ironically enough the big fuel cell company in the Detroit area is owned by Stemple (the retired GM head)

I feel that this whole oil push is just the neocons and their buddies hoping to cash in on whatever oil they can drill while the cashing in is still good (Of course they also probably have to snap up all the patents and get the market cornered on any new technology)

The big three could have built something other than these internal combustion engines 30 years ago if it had suited them IMO.

[Divernan]

37. GM's biggest error - building Saab SUVs.

If they did ANY marketing studies of Saab owners - who have demonstrated tremendous brand loyalty for Saab's entire history - it would reveal that we to a nearly complete degree demand engineering excellence, and define that to include high mileage. We also tend to be well-educated, politically sophisticated, safety oriented and pro-environmental protection. In other words, we are not so insecure as to think bigger is better, or to feel our identity is defined by muscle cars.

[llmart]

31. The Big Three......

pushes these monstrosities because they make a huge profit on them. They could care less about the environment, or the consumer's pocketbook. I think this is wonderful news, but again it's not until it hits the average American in the wallet that they wise up.

I drive a 4-cylinder Stratus and get pretty good mileage for an American made model (if there is such a thing any more). I like to rub it in when people around me are complaining about their gas bills. They're just plain stupid.

[Supersedeas]

41. true, the advertising push hasn't slowed one bit--at least the marketeers

make out like a bandit.

Advertising without a conscious...go Madison Ave...go.

[Blower]

40. So many people are "under water"

Buying overpriced SUVs on cheap credit.

[ozone_man]

47. Yes, it's finally starting to have an effect.

It took long enough. But the staggering debt load is finally taking it's toll. It won't just be SUVs of course, but most consumer items, including real estate, stocks, bonds, ... Luxury items will take the hardest hit, staples should be less affected. Sell the stocks to buy a few loaves of bread.

[Megahurtz]

49. HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!!!!!

It's about time! I hate those things.

[Occulus]

50. Good, and I hope their time quickly passes.