Villagers furious with Christian Missionaries (no Jesus, no food)

[kskiska]

Samanthapettai, Jan 16 (ANI): Rage and fury has gripped this tsunami-hit tiny Hindu village in India's southern Tamil Nadu after a group of Christian missionaries allegedly refused them aid for not agreeing to follow their religion.

Samanthapettai, near the temple town of Madurai, faced near devastation on the December 26 when massive tidal waves wiped it clean of homes and lives.

Most of the 200 people here are homeless or displaced , battling to rebuild lives and locating lost family members besides facing risks of epidemic,disease and trauma.

Jubilant at seeing the relief trucks loaded with food, clothes and the much-needed medicines the villagers, many of who have not had a square meal in days, were shocked when the nuns asked them to convert before distributing biscuits and water.

Heated arguments broke out as the locals forcibly tried to stop the relief trucks from leaving. The missionaries, who rushed into their cars on seeing television reporters and the cameras refusing to comment on the incident and managed to leave the village.

more…
http://in.news.yahoo.com/050116/139/2j1rp.html

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. that's not Christian!

That is simply disgusting to hear people were doing things like that.

[spotbird]

5. It is the new breed of Christianity running rampant in America.

It doesn't include Christ's message.

[The Zanti Regent]

11. You mean Je$u$ ¢hri$t, don't you?

These assholes are pure examples of ¢hri$tianity!

[ixion]

16. it's not new

missionaries have been running this scam for centuries. :grr:

[vixengrl]

27. It's even got a name--"rice Christianity"

:shrug:

[PartyPooper]

66. I dubbed it "Bribes for Christ" in 2003 when missionaries went to Iraq.

It's totally appalling and disgusting...and, VERY un-Christian!

:grr:

[zann725]

71. Indeed. The G.B. Shaw play "Major Barbara" was about just that.

n/t

[Julius Civitatus]

110. I agree, they are the CHRISTIANISTS

some sort of a new perverted deconstruction of Christianity in America that apparently has LITTLE to do with the words of Jesus.

They are a bunch of hypocrites that selectively choose their Bible passages (mostly from the Old Testament, little from Jesus) to fit their preconceived agenda, usually conservative, greedy, and prejudiced. Little compassion, less brotherly love. These concepts replaced with an obsession to convert everyone around them, and a feverish belief in "the Rapture," which ironically is not a real Christian teaching, but rather the fevered interpretations of a 19th century charlatan.

We call them "Christianists," as they obsessed with all things "X-tian," but little about the substance. The real words of Jesus seem inconvenient to this bunch.

:shrug:

[Jester_11218]

33. Actually it is very Christian!

This is a great example of how Christianity, along with most religions, have made this planet a worse place to live. Religions have divided us and are responsible for hatred and bigotry.

You can be a good person without religion. You can be a bad person without religion. This story just demonstrates the hypocrisy of religion.

If it makes you a better person religion is a good thing. History has taught us that the people who misuse religion and people who become fanatical about religion become dangerous to the world. You can not deny it.

My opinion is that people should practice their religion and keep it to themselves. I am tired of all the problems that fanatics cause. And those of you who are simply good people of faith...stop making excuses for your harmful brethren. They are wreaking havoc on this world and you should stop defending them.

IMHO

[spotbird]

62. I agree with your every word.

I'm married to the most moral person I know, who is also an atheist.

The worst atrocities of history and today are (were)committed in the name of God.

I haven't the faintest idea whether Jesus was a Deity, but I do know he was a liberal.

[JusticeForAll]

83. wow...is there a bumper sticker that says that?!?

Jesus was a liberal... I love it!

[spotbird]

85. Yes there is a bumper sticker.

I've seen it, I don't know where to buy it.

[progressoid]

Here are a bunch for ya

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/browse/?Nao=1&No=1&Nty=1&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=jesus+was+a+liberal&x=10&y=13

[jdj]

77. I wondered about this when my mom's church sent her an e-mail

saying her preacher was going over there to witness and help with relief efforts.

How freaking embarassing.

[Jamastiene]

90. I couldn't agree more

I live in redneckland. These people have almost driven me completely mad. I now long for their version of Hell to get away from them. Eternity without them would be Heaven for me. I can just hear them now. If you had worshipped the Christian God, this tsunami would never have hit your village and you would be in an eternal state of bliss right now like we rich whorish-looking Christians are. :puke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

132. Well said and Thank You for saying it. n/t

[Jester_11218]

170. It is a taboo topic

Religion and Israel are taboo topics. You get labeled as if you say anything bad about them or question them.

[PurityOfEssence]

152. Big problem here: this religion requires intrusion

Not all religions do, but Christianity and Islam require their believers to cram their guess down everybody's throat. I'm completely with you in spirit, but the very heart and soul of these and other religions is the self-proclaimed right to intrude and proselytize. They do it to my children and are shocked that anyone could object; were I to try doing the same, they'd shriek like stuck pigs.

This is an inherent problem with most beliefs: a feeling of aristocracy. People who believe are deemed inherently "better", and not subject to the same rules of comportment as the rest of us.

The principal act of a Christian is to suck up to the Sky Daddy, get his approval and secure one's selfish place in happyland forever. A good way of doing this is by roping strays into the herd.

It would be nice if people would keep it to themselves, but the very core of these beliefs demands otherwise. What's worse is the feeling many have of being justified to do ANYTHING: sway kids with candy and peer pressure, prey upon the weak, freeload off of society by not paying taxes, suck money from the government that they then misrepresent to the needy as having come from their kindhearted parishioners, and the truly illustrative incident that started the thread.

You're asking faiths to give up being precisely what they are, and that's just not going to happen. It's sort of like saying that guns really aren't the problem, it those damned bullets...

[atreides1]

162. Not Totally True

Christianity as conceived by fanatics requires it's believers to forcefully shove their concept of beliefs down the throats of others.

Even Jesus told his Apostles that if a town did not want to hear the message that they were carrying, that when they leave they should shake the dust of that town from their sandals. Jesus did not say to
make them believe, and if they refuse bomb their villages or deny them comfort, that belief came after the church was organized.

As it was said in the movie Dogma, "Jesus gave you an idea, and you turned it into a belief. It's easier to change an idea, then to change a belief", or words to that effect.

Not sure about Islam, I guess I'll have to study some more.

[Drifter]

69. Reminds me of a bumper sticker

God does not favor groups
Only Religions do

Cheers
Drifter

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

124. I LIKE that one!

We say "The Ocean refuses no river", which confuses and infuriates religiousts to no end.

[Jamastiene]

111. You are mistaken

It is exactly how the religion keeps going. Keep people on their knees their whole lives and tell them they might as well pray while they are down there. It is a truly sadistic religion like most of them.

[jwcomer]

140. you mean, not Christ-like

I believe you mean that it isn't very Christ-like.

It would be hard to argue that this isn't very Christian. After all, there is an abundance of historical evidence that this behavior is in fact typical for Christians.

[SoCalDem]

145. Remember the military chaplain who was "baptising" soldiers

before giving them water?? It was 125+ degrees, water was rationed, yet the chaplain had constructed a baptismal font, using gallons and gallons of water...and coercing young recruits to "Find Jesus" and THEN get some drinking water..

[trogdor]

187. Actually, it was a swimming pool.

The chaplain had finagled sole control over it, and was reserving it for his "born-agin's".

[Ignis]

2. WWJD?

This is sickening. :(

[7th_Sephiroth]

3. i think thats actually a hague-worthy crime

someone needs to contact the world court

[confuddled]

13. Here's the email address.

The public information officer of the ICC can be reached at [e-mail].

[FizzFuzz]

176. Done!!!!!

This is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! They need to be made accountable. Now, on earth, not at the pearly gates.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

52. What crime is that?

Refusing to give to charity?

[Cobalt Violet]

4. Stupid "christian" missionaries.

[Canuckistanian]

6. These are Hindus they're dealing with.

Hindus have very strong faith and their own share of fundamentalists, too. If the missionaries aren't careful and try to pull this kind of stunt again, THERE WILL BE MORE TROUBLE.

[burythehatchet]

22. true that Hindus have their own fundamentalists

However, Hinduism preaches acceptance of any path to spiritual salvation. You don't need a membership card.

[Dufaeth]

84. Unless you're an Outcaste of course

...

[manic expression]

109. Umm....not anymore

Sorry, the caste system is outlawed and is only existent in the north. I've heard this from the lips of a Hindu who recently visited the same region. Nevertheless, the caste system was an abomination and had nothing to do with Hindu philosophy as much as a rigid mindset.

[bhairava]

126. WRONG! They still suffer...

There have already been reports of relief agencies being hindered in their efforts by people physically keeping Untouchables (Dalits) from getting near enough to get food, supplies, water etc. They are also forced to sleep in the roads away from the others in makeshift refugee camps. The caste system is alive and well in ALL of India. Like Americans and the subjects of class and race, many pretend otherwise in India, and the laws be damned! The abuse, murder, and rape experienced by Dalits continues to this day in the South as well as the North. It is intricately entwined with religious and cultural practices. A western view of Hinduism (itself a poor name for various related and distinct spiritual practices) and Buddhism(ditto) differ enormously from how people live it. The distilled and philosophical brand of Hinduism and Budhism most westerners admire bare little resmblance to the living religions practiced all over Asia (not just India).


Sorry to ramble, but just google the Google news Dalits + tsunami or whatever you wish to see the many reports, or check out human rights groups's reports on this latest outrages against these poor people.

[manic expression]

136. That is wrong

The caste system is gone, only a very small number of people keep the discriminations alive. The practice of keeping distances from outcastes is gone, although I can see how some would become reactionary after a natural disaster. The north is the only region where the upper castes take advantage of the lower castes. If you think this is a part of the Hindu philosophy, read the story of Parashu Rama, the human form of Vishnu who forsakes his caste to stop the injustices of the caste system. Alas, many do not see the significance and message of this, however.
Shivaji, the Maratha, put people of all castes into his ranks. He completely disregarded caste and placed people in position regardless of their caste. He built and managed a completely Hindu empire (it was acceptive of other religions as well) after forcing the last Muslim rulers out of India. This is another example of how caste is immaterial in regard to Hinduism.

Why do you say that the west does not pay attention to the caste system? The west has pointed their moral fingers at India while they have subjugated a race, exterminated another and subjugated the world's peoples for their own greed.

There is a difference between Hindu/Buddhist spirituality and philosophy and Hindu/Buddhist society. These are independent from each other. Furthermore, the caste system has nothing to do with Hindu teachings. It is an abomination of the varna system, which was completely different. In the big picture of things, the caste system is relatively minuscule, and it has no effect on Hinduism itself.

Just how is the caste system intricately entwined with religious practices? Of course, it is part of the present culture (to a certain extent), but that is because it has been part of the culture for some time. In every case, the practice of caste is insignificant in the practice of religion. If caste was forgotten, no change in religion would come about.

By the way, there is royalty in India (BBC had a story about a royal family in Gujarat awhile ago) who are completely destitute. They are extremely poor, just as the Dalits. Are they not "poor people", too?

[Dufaeth]

159. Racism dissapeared when slavery was outlawed

/sarcasm

[manic expression]

160. No wound can heal without a scar

The outlawing of an institution does not effect the bigotry either way. There is bigotry stemming from the caste system mentality, yes, but this is very small. Why do you ignore the fact that one of the first Prime Ministers of India was himself a former untouchable? Phoonlan Devi won the admiration of the vast majority of Indians and Hindus around the world regardless of caste when she fought the horrible discrimination of the caste system (in the north, by the way). Sonia Ghandi, regarded by the caste system as a Mleccha (foreigner), recently won a large victory for her party with the Indian people's support.

The system is gone, and with it the mindset has been and is being rapidly phased out.

[burythehatchet]

116. that's an odd comment

but likely reflective of an inability to sift mythology, religion, and socio-economic constructs out of the essential philosophy. Its that inability that leads to fundamentalist behavior which is by any measure, completely irrational.

If you wish to learn about any religion shed the baggage of the religion and find its root philosophy.

[Dufaeth]

158. I think you're glorifying without understanding.

I know casteism can be seperated out from Hinduism and isn't an inherent requirement, but it is how Hinduism has been practised in the past. Christianity is interpereted many different ways as well, the core philosophies may be good but there is lots of baggage in any religion.

[The Zanti Regent]

151. Calvin had his caste system too!

Remember, Calivin pushed the crap that only a select few were PREDESTINED to be saved. As for the rest, well they're just as untouchable as those who imposed the same thing in Hinduism.

[gorky]

117. Hindu Fundamentalism ....

... has always been a reaction to Islamic and Christian fundamentalism.
When pushed too far even the meek react.

[manic expression]

123. Well said!

That is exactly it.

[Jade Fox]

7. Jesus is weeping....

because of those who extend suffering in his name.

[Jamastiene]

95. no he's not!

He is fine with it. It is his "way". He is the king of hatemongers and torturers. Ask and ye shall receive is a big huge lie. Living proof right here.

[melnjones]

118. How very sad

that the actions of people calling themselves christians would ever cause someone to say such things about Jesus. Not saying this as a slam against you, Jamastiene, please don't misunderstand. I really do hear what you are saying. It just makes me very sad, as a christian, to hear it nonetheless.

[Jamastiene]

122. Long since quit working on me

Don't even try it. The truth is the truth.

[shadowknows69]

127. lets not confuse

the misguidedness of religious zealots with the message of a true man of peace and charity.

[arikara]

154. ???

What is that? I don't consider myself a Christian, but I do know that Jesus would have had nothing to do with hatemongering and torturing. Those people are corrupting his message.

[beam me up scottie]

8. These are the types of charities that our tax dollars will benefit

under *.

[Canuckistanian]

9. The article mentions "nuns"

Is this the Catholic church?

[spotbird]

There was a time that there would be no way the Catholic

Church would be affiliated with this kind of despicable behavior, now I couldn't dismiss the possibility out of hand.

In America Catholic Charities is one of the better organizations, precisely because they don't act that way.

[harpboy_ak]

184. There a lot of Catholics in Sri Lanka

Because of its past history as a Portugese colony before it was a Brit colony, the Catholic Church has a long history in Sri Lanka, and there are a lot of Sinhalese Catholics. Several priests have been featured in news stories (one church had a Virgin that was swept out of the church by the first wave, and brought back on a later one).

Perhaps it was some overzealous Sinhalese nuns?

[EC]

38. Exactly what I was thinking

I don't think the Pope would approve of this approach....how could they just pull out and not feed these people? That's just sick...

[goddess40]

40. The American Catholics don't give a rip what the Pope says

unless it fits their needs. If it weren't true not one Catholic would have voted for Bush, none of them would be taking birth control and none of them would have pre-marital sex.

[MaineDem]

130. There are non-Catholics "nuns"

I have my issues with the Caholic Church but I seriously can't believe that Catholic nuns would do this.

I need to see more of the story. There actually isn't much in the Yahoo article.

[NC_Nurse]

10. What a vile thing to do!

So much for winning more souls for Jeebus....:wtf:

[Jamastiene]

100. Actually,

It is pretty typical. Rockingham is like that.

[goddess40]

12. sounds like business as usual

There has always been a price to pay for help from this group - like sitting through a presentation at a time share to collect a 'prize'.

[Jamastiene]

104. Precisely

Or getting on your knees and begging them. That is where the getting on your knees idea came from originally. A way to explain where you'll stay once they force you to do it for the first time. You'll stay there too with no real help anyhow. These people need food, medicine, and shelter, not religion and poppycock right now.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Shame on those missionaries. Because they represent our goodwill,

they should be better regulated. Christians without proper training can start wars from their insensitive proselytizing.

[QC]

39. Are these nuns American?

The article doesn't say anything about their nationality.

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. Okay, I just assumed.

But do you really believe American missionaries would be any different?

[Southpaw Bookworm]

141. No doubt

Remember the two girls on a "humanitarian mission" in Afghanistan who were held hostage, when their organization was just a front for missionaries of the "if you want food you have to listen to our spiel" ilk?

[Sin]

15. Yea who didn't see this one coming.

They have been trying to pass out there wheat flavored bibles for hundreds of years Its in there nature and if disaster like this would happen on a global scale they would return to what they know best.
salvation or die. Religion at the barrel of a gun the tip of a sword or what ever is available at the time.

[Jamastiene]

96. Yep

Bravo, someone who tells it like it is.

[PassingFair]

169. A light-hearted moment, just for you, Jamastiene..

My favorite "organization" is "Predatory Missionaries Without Borders"!

HaHAHAHAHAHAHAHa

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/010305.asp

[Maat]

17. I wouldn't have blamed the villagers for taking over and

taking the food and supplies from them. It is unconscionable to be dangling this stuff in front of devastated and desperate people.

[Wilms]

19. Then the villagers will be accussed of persecution.

:puke:

[radric]

20. I thought India was refusing all outside aid? nt

[Judi Lynn]

30. Could you give a link to your source? I'd like to read more about it.n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. I remember hearing that too

that India said they didn't need any aid.

[0007]

89. Here is one and there are plenty more when ya google

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59585-2005Jan8.html

[Ian David]

59. I wouldn't have blamed them for eating the nuns

I'm not saying that those people are cannibals.

I just like the image of nuns roasting on a spit in front of TV cameras.

[Maat]

91. Well, when they do something like this ...

no, I know we are both kidding. But, I'm taking Thom Hartmann's (the radio host) recommendation for donations, because he worked abroad to help humanity. He recommends Oxfam and Doctors Without Borders. He says that the donor is not dealing with an org. that pays huge salaries to the top, top layer with Oxfam and DWB. Or this kind of baloney.

[Jamastiene]

114. What sane person would blame them

They have just gone through a horrible disaster. They are tired, hungry, weak (key point), and frustrated. Extra heavy duty sadistic religious warfare is the last thing they want to hear right now. The survival instinct is so much stronger than all of that bull*it

[burythehatchet]

18. F**K THEM. Really, F**K them

Oh my goodness, the fate that awaits them...

[Book Lover]

21. More info is needed here

I can't find any other version of this story elsewhere, and although I am the bitterest ex-Catholic around, I really find it very hard to believe that any order of RC nuns would hold out on food and water until someone said they were willing to convert.

[Wilms]

23. Documentation is good... but what's hard to believe??

Historically, they've killed people over it. What's a piece of bread withheld.

[Book Lover]

29. A) Nuns, not priests

B) It takes a long time to convert in the RC church.

Maybe the reporter has it wrong and the women aren't RC nuns. It's just that this is a pretty thin piece of reporting, and because it is so incindiary and sounds just right to my ears, I am suspect.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. I share your suspicion.

"Instant conversion" is a Protestant Evangelical thing, not Catholic. May have been misreported.

[Julius Civitatus]

121. I agree. RC conversion takes a process

The "instant conversion" a prtestant, mainly US evangelist thingy. They go around selling Jesus like they are selling insurance.

Note: Some protestant denominations have nuns, though.

[southlandshari]

180. My thoughts exactly!

This sounds like a protestant evangelical approach - I'd like to add "fringe" to that, but sad experience has taught me otherwise. Could very well be a group representing one of the big "mainstream" denominations here in the states.

As a progressive Christian who has been greatly blessed through both short and long term service trips abroad, I was dismayed several years ago to travel to Venezuela with a church group only to find our "hosts" were newly "converted" protestants who were dead set on bringing the poorest of the poor Catholic populations "to Jesus".

Of course to be fair, the "target audience" was only Catholic due to interaction with RC missionaries years earlier, who probably used the rice-for-soul approach as well.

That said, I have not seen this heavy-handed and artificial approach to mission work among Catholics in my lifetime. Catholic Relief Services and other similar arms of the Catholic church do great work as far as I can see, and with no strings attached.

[NNN0LHI]

46. Here is a lot more documentation

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=tus&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2005-01/14/article03.shtml

[Book Lover]

57. Perhaps I was unclear

I ran a search for this particular town, Samanthapettai, and found two instances of this same story, nothing more. I am aware of the legit and in my view well-founded concern local officials have of evangelizing. I was discussing this particular story, not the larger issue.

[DemBones DemBones]

163. That link gets a "No related articles found" message.

:shrug:

[Jamastiene]

92. Trust me, they do things like that

Read my other post on this topic. Also, I am being denied therapy for post traumatic stress disorder unless I listen to a bunch of drivel about a god who didn't keep me from being raped to begin with. BTW, I was raped in the name of god so don't tell me they wouldn't do something like refuse food to starving people. That is exacltly what the christian religion is all about. I am from the Bible Belt, I know first hand and foremost what christianity is really all about.

[Book Lover]

98. I am sorry to hear

about what happened to you. As a fellow sexual assault survivor, I understand somewhat about what is happening to you. However, if you would read my below posts, you will see that I was calling into question this one particular report, because I could find no backup. Again, and I am willing to repeat this, I have every confidence that some christian relief organizations are abusing their position of power during the cleanup of this crisis. I am looking for clarification regarding this one report.

[koopie57]

107. welcome to DU jamastiene

I'm sorry that happened to you and that you are not getting the help you need. My brother went through a similar thing while at the seminary. Afterwards, they said they didn't think he was able to handle the stress of being a priest, he left, became a dr., got a board of directions position and was instrumental in closing the school down.

I don't blame you for being angry. I use to get angry at God, but i realized that all he asked was that people love one another. Just love. It is man who made all the craziness. Anyway, I just wanted to welcome you and let you know I heard you.

[burythehatchet]

24. amazing

Disappointed and shocked into disbelief the hapless villagers still await aid.

I am sick of these bastards.

[Malva Zebrina]

25. Who are these "nuns"?

I am not amused dear sisters, whoever you are. Get thee to a convent.

[illflem]

26. Is it any wonder that the Taliban made preaching of

Christianity illegal?

[spotbird]

99. Now there's a giant leap.

There are examples of misogynist evil that surpass the example here, not many, but the Taliban would be one.

[Walt Starr]

28. But...but...t this is FAITH BASED AID!

:eyes:

Motherfucking pieces of shit passing themselves off as human beings.

[reprobate]

88. Why not? GW Bush passes himself off as a human being. Why not them?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. Nuns??? As in Catholics? WTF?

I was almost certain it was Protestant Evangelicals when I started reading. That's sad. I'd expect Catholics to be more tolerant. Bastards.

[Zynx]

105. I think that is a misstatement

Conversion to Catholicism is a *long* process. Makes demanding conversion quite difficult.

Evangelicals OTOH...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

129. Yes. I'm pretty convinced it's been misreported. (nt)

[Julius Civitatus]

139. Some Protestant congregations have nuns

While nuns, monks and friars are mostly the domain of the Catholic church, there are some Protestant / Evangelical congregations that actually have nuns.

[scarlet_owl]

34. That's just shameful! I'm disgusted.

That goes against every teaching of Jesus.

[Canuckistanian]

35. Christians "Exploiting" Tsunami Disaster, Council on American-Islamic Rela

ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA, January 10, 2005: HPI Note: This article appears on the conservative web site Cybercast News Service.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, in a recent email to supporters, said Christian missionaries are "exploiting the tsunami suffering." In its January 7 "American Muslim News Briefs," CAIR included a report from the Agape Press, which noted that a Virginia-based Christian ministry has sent teams to South Asia "to fulfill disaster victims' needs even as it works to fulfill the Great Commission." "When they're passing out a bottle of water, a blanket, a lantern, a candle, they're passing out gospel tracts with them," the ministry spokesman was quoted as saying. The spokesman said missionaries are seizing the opportunity "to be a witness of the love of Jesus Christ to the Hindus, to the Muslims, to whoever was affected, certainly fulfilling the commandment to take the gospel to everybody."


Source:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200501%5CNAT20050110a.html

[cliss]

79. Thanks, Canuck.

Those vile pieces of shit.....thanks for posting the backup.

Doesn't it sound just like fanatics? ..."even as it works to fulfill the Great Commission". "certainly fulfilling the commandment to take the gospel to everybody".

Can you just hear the fanaticism, burning its way through the words, and revealing what they're REALLY going over there for. A golden opportunity. One man's disaster is another man's moment to pounce. Their main focus is not on relief, it's on PROSELYTYZING. Taking advantage of people in their moment of need, because this rotten church can't get any members any other way.

I'm going to take the opportunity to send this "church" a piece of my mind.

By the way, what are the regulations about assisting in disaster relief? Do you just pack up the truck with the bibles, and go? Why would India approve of this?

[Canuckistanian]

161. And guess where I got it from? The Hindu Times

These things are being noticed by everyone, world wide.

[DemBones DemBones]

36. IF the villagers' accusations are true, the missionaries

are in the wrong, clearly.

Possibly, something was lost in the translation, and this is a misunderstanding.

[Downtown Hound]

37. If those villagers riot and beat those missionaries senseless

I'm not going to shed one bloody tear.

[EC]

41. I hope those reporters

got them pulling out without giving aid...

[Rowdyboy]

42. This is so despicable as to defy description

I await confirmation that its true before I unload.

[NVMojo]

43. someone needs to go back to the bible and read about how Jesus

passed out fish and loaves of bread BEFORE he preached....

[Jamastiene]

108. The way to a person's heart

is through their stomach. They will be more willing to buy what you are selling that way.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. This story doesn't make sense--you can't become Catholic instantly

Nor can you instantly join either the Lutheran or Anglican churches, the two other denominations who have either nuns or deaconesses.

In fact, the older denominations haven't tied strings to their aid since the nineteenth century, because they feel that it is spiritually dangerous to pretend to make a religious commitment just to gain material benefits.

This story is from Yahoo India's site, and the reporter may not have been up on the various Christian denominations. He may also be a Hindu fundamentalist who dislikes missionaries enough to make up stories about them.

(I can imagine, for example, a fundamentalist Christian reporter making up stories about Hindus.)

There may have been some women missionaries from one of the fundamentalist groups, and the reporter, being most familiar with either the Catholic or Anglican churches, just assumed that they were nuns, especially if the nuns he was familiar with wore pretty normal looking clothing except for a large cross.

I can certainly see a bunch of free-lance fundamentalists making aid conditional on conversion.

Some of the people on this thread are so knee-jerk anti-religious that they don't even stop to think things through. In fact, they practically illustrate the other thread about Americans being ignorant about religion.

[Ian David]

64. Standard Operating Procedure

"What is Hinduism but Devil worship, ultimately?"
Pat Robertson, President of the Christian Coalition, on "The 700 Club", January 7, 1991


This was even covered as a case study in one of my marketing textbooks-- something about the trouble of selling American toothpaste in India because of their fear of more conversions.

Christian Missionaries in India
The poor, uneducated Hindus are unable to see through the veil of this "social work" of the Christian missionaries, and often have to succumb to their tactics to receive medical care, education, food, clothing, and other goods. This is one of the main reasons why the missionaries have been so successful in not only India, but other parts of the world as well: They have the financial means to bribe and deceive the poor, illiterate non-Christian masses with the promises of food, clothing, education, and medical care in return for conversion to Christianity. The Hindus, who have been looted, plundered, and drained dry by centuries of foreign invasions and conquest, simply do not have the financial resources to compete with the Christian missionary organizations in the field of social work.
More:

http://www.hinduweb.org/home/general_sites/vande/Christian_Missionaries.html




http://www.kentaxrecords.com/iaca/tactics_violence.htm

May 23, 2003, 9:40 a.m.
Evangelizing Iraq
The Christian-missionary question.
By David Klinghoffe
The National Review
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-klinghoffer052303.asp

Conversion To Christianity: A Missionary Deception
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/deception.html

Mahatma Gandhi on The Christian Missionary Menace
http://www.caribbeanhindu.com/Gandhi_Conversion.htm

The Famine That Never Was: Christian Missionaries In India, 1918-1919
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2082/is_3_63/ai_75162016

[SemperEadem]

172. The best line

"It is my firm opinion that Europe (and the United States) does not represent the spirit of God or Christianity but the spirit of Satan. And Satan’s successes are the greatest when appears with the name of God on his lips. (Young India: September 8, 1920)"



http://www.caribbeanhindu.com/Gandhi_Conversion.htm

[pschoeb]

113. Unlikely to be Catholic, The Temple Town of Maduria

Which is the large town near this village, has had a diocese since 1600's, Maduria is an Archdiocese currently. There would be no reason for Catholics to be such nasty bastards, as it would threaten the Catholic community that has existed in this regions for awhile, the population in this archdiocese is roughly 8% Catholic.

[melnjones]

128. thank you...

It's frustrating how many people on DU don't think facts are necessary anymore when it comes to finding reasons to bash religion.

[MidwestTransplant]

45. Sounds like a faith based initiative.

[jjtss]

47. The Christian Bible says.................

(In Revelations) "Lest ye wear the mark of the beast, ye shall not eat". That is the catch 22 of G. Brish's "Faithbased welfare"
Draw your own conclusions.

[Jamastiene]

119. So Christianity is Satanism now?

I've always kind of interpreted the bible just that way. Thou shalt not kill, dude, kill your son, kill my son, kill 'em all for being gay. Huh? That is the reason the bible is still one of the most debated and debatable things in history. I tried to believe the Bushies and their types are false prophets and that Christianity is really the opposite, the liberals who are the peacemakers, but experience has taught me that if there is a God he has long since abandoned the causes of justice, peace and love if he ever really stood for that at all to begin with.

[Democrats_win]

49. Good Samaritan? not these folks.

[moobu2]

50. I cant see why anyone would doubt this story

These, priests, nuns, preachers and clerics are just people, nothing special at all (even if they really think they are). There are very sincere good ones, along with the lowest pieces of shit imaginable just like there are in any other group of people.

[Whoa_Nelly]

51. To which group/faith/denomination do these missionaries belong?

DId I miss it in the article or here on this thread.
Would like to know who these "christians" are...

[DemBones DemBones]

53. BEFORE YOU POST - - PLEASE READ POST #44,

in which Lydia Leftcoast explains why it's unlikely that nuns of any denomination would do such a thing, and gives possible scenarios for what really happened.

Another I can think of is that the villagers may have misunderstood what the missionaries said.

We often see native-born Americans misunderstand other native-born Americans. Add in language and cultural differences and you can get bigger misunderstandings.

[leesa]

56. Nuns may not, but Fundies would. Look at Dubya...one day a sinner, the

next a holy man.

It's interesting that you can neither rate nor comment on this story.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

54. Does anyone have a balanced report?

You know, one that gives both sides of a story like journalism?

[Cobalt Violet]

68. Why is a balanced story better than a true story?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

76. A balanced story is real journalism

This is an editorial. It doesn't give the other side a chance to explain that, perhaps, they had their lives threatened. Or maybe they were simply supposed to be somewhere else and had ended up in the wrong location. Or maybe that they were never really where this story claims. You know, stuff like facts...

All we have here is an accusation. It might be truthful, it might not.

[spotbird]

94. It is very unusual that a story that did not tell both sides

would not represent the side of the story of extreme right wing, but this could very well be the exception. There aren't any of the traditions that would, as a policy, advocate the denial of aid. I do know that the American Episcopalians promise against this type of intrusion when they request donations. The Roman Catholics used to have a moral foundation, it has eroded so quickly that I haven't any idea what today's rationalization would be.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

102. Well this story only told one side

So it might as well be an opinion piece for all I care.

[Jamastiene]

97. Excuse me?

Click the link and read the whole story. The "other side" you are looking to defend had their chance to tell their side of the story but rushed off in their cars knowing full well they were guilty of essentially teasing starving people. There is your balance. They wouldn't answer questions because they knew they had been caught torturing people in need.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

103. No, that is what we call a "claim"

Since there is no other side in this story, all we have is a one-sided report from a news agency none of us ever deal with.

[Jamastiene]

106. Uhm...

Reread the story. They had their chance to explain, but did not. If they are truly not guilty of demanding that the tsunami victims beg for food, they should come forward. They won't.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

125. That's no case whatsoever

A journalist none of us have ever heard of CLAIMS that they left. Even if they left, and frankly I still have my doubts, such groups have headquarters and spokesmen and such. A real story would contact them and include THEIR SIDE.

This is just an opinion piece.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

185. It seems most people here ARE taking the story with a grain of salt

Including me (as you can se from my posts).

[leesa]

55. Filthy opportunists.

[damntexdem]

58. There is no detail.

Which missionaries? If there were 'nuns,' were they Roman Catholic? Actually, this doesn't sound like an RC approach.

[Richard Steele]

65. REALLY have to agree, this sounds like Fundies not RCC

I am certainly NOT a fan of the RCC, but if
(and a big IF, as we wait for confirmation)
_IF_ things happened as the report claimed, this sounds alot more like an american FUNdamentalist job.

The RCC just doesn't have its head up it's butt far enough to pull a stunt like this THESE DAYS.

Sounds more like the work of some homegrown "Red-Blooded American" types.

Anyone know if FreeRepublik sent any relief teams?

Just my 2 cents.

[KC21304]

60. This story stinks. I don't believe it.

Nuns do not do this. Someone got the facts wrong concerning who the people involved were or what they did. I would bet on it.

[Salluc]

61. American nuns???

Can anyone find out where these folks were from?

[Ian David]

70. Boston Globe: In Indonesia, some groups mix relief, religion

In Indonesia, some groups mix relief, religion
Boston Globe, MA - 20 hours ago
By Farah Stockman, Globe Staff | January 16, 2005. BANDA ACEH, Indonesia -- In a tent near the center of town, under a banner that ...
http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2005/01/16/in_indonesia_some_groups_mix_relief_religion


Religious aid groups try to convert victims
Guardian, UK - Jan 15, 2005
Dozens of religious groups have moved in to Aceh, looking to help tsunami victims - and convert them and others, creating tensions in the disaster area. ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tsunami/story/0,15671,1391491,00.html

[Cobalt Violet]

86. How disgusting !

[NYC]

67. Some help had already been given.

..."Many NGOs (volunteer groups) are extending help to us but there in our village the NGO, which was till now helping us is now asking us to follow the Christian religion. We are staunch followers of Hindu religion and refused their request. And after that these people with their aid materials are leaving the village without distributing that to us," Rajni Kumar, a villager said...

No matter who is doing this, it is unconscionable.

[Ian David]

74. Baptist Press: reshape the people's perception of Christianity

Survivors and aid workers mourn the dead, focus on the living
Baptist Press

BANDA ACEH, Indonesia - Minutes after feeling the earthquake Dec. 26, Ibu Tetty was in her house in the small village of Desa Nusa, about 10 kilometers from the coast in Indonesia's Aceh province.

<snip>

"We need to get past the death toll and get focused on the living -- because that's where our ministry is going to be," the worker said.

In Aceh, the area hit hardest by the tsunami, reconstruction will take years. As volunteers begin to arrive, the worker believes selfless acts of service will make the greatest impact.

"We need doctors and nurses and people with specific fields of expertise," he said. "But we need a lot more people who will do dirty work. It will be harder than you can imagine. There are so many needs -- giving food and water to other volunteers; setting up water filtration systems; carrying sacks of rice; digging out debris and bagging badly decomposed corpses."

As one with established relationships with the people, Antonio said relief and aid delivered with humility and cultural sensitivity will have major impact.

"We've got an opportunity to reshape the people's perception of Christianity," he said. "They've got us categorized in just one box (together with all Westerners).... We can reshape that."

More:
http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2005/1_10_2005/ne100105survivors.shtml

[Habibi]

72. One wonders

if it isn't really Catholic nuns withholding aid, why would this story appear? Is someone trying to smear Catholic nuns, or the Catholic faith, and if so, why?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

78. Or it could be a non-Christian writer who can't tell one denomination

from another. :shrug:

[Habibi]

82. Good point, thanks

[TrustingDog]

73. Haven't read the whole linkyet, but Jebus cripes godammit that's horrid.

i'm just fucking Seeeeeeething right now.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

75. Just what were they trying to do feed the hungry or give communion?

This is heartbreaking, "nuns asked them to convert before distributing biscuits and water".

My opinion of organized Christianity just sank lower. I didn't even think it was possible.

I hope God is taking notes.

[manly]

80. food for prayers

If this story is accurate, I don't envy the missionaries position. They ought to be expelled from whatever religion they belong to, and the food and supplies re-delivered immediately.

[Deja Q]

81. Anybody else have anything positive left about these false prophets?

Except a small amount of sympathy for when the non-Christians decide to end the heathens' misery? (when you go into a foreign land and meddle by arrogantly disrespecting the beliefs of the natives and forcing your own onto others (sounds rather like rape, doesn't it?), you are begging for trouble. While I am a liberal, my ability to sympathize is not blind. Particularly when such transgressions are consciously practiced in a day and age when we ought to know better.)

To be Christian is to freely give. Not for a mandatory lecture, cost, or anything else. And teaching a man to fish so he'll never starve is NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST forcing him to read a different book of fairy tales than one he's accustomed to before helping him out. That's depraved to the highest degree.

Who's running this gig, anyway? The Salvation Army? They're quite known for discrimination and other unChristian acts such as what that article has described.

[anitar1]

87. I Have Yet To See One That Is Positive,

There will probably be protests over my statement, but all I can see are groups of Jebus freaks selling their "product". With lots of strings, of course. Wonder if Franklin Graham is still waiting in Kuwait to cruise into Baghdad selling his product.Seems I haven't heard of any of those groups trying to get in there lately.

[rocktivity]

93. They're criminals as far as I'm concerned

No better than those "first responders" who looted the WTC shops during the 9/11 rescue. It's exortion at best and torture at worst. Arrest them the next time it happens--and confiscate their supplies, of course.

:headbang:
rocknation

[TexanDem]

101. will be same thing here at home!

The way Bush keeps pushing for faith-based initiatives and eliminating virtually all gov. assistance programs, he's trying to force people to go to charities for help, but they'll have to make professions to get any help. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Christian, but I sure don't want some of these guys telling me what I have to believe before I could get assistance if I needed it! I don't think I serve the same God they do! This problem is right here at home!

[Ilsa]

112. Sure, why not? Just like the Army chaplain in Iraq who wouldn't let

any soldiers swim in his portable pool unless they agreed to be baptized in it.

[rocktivity]

120. Whatever happened to that chaplain?

He should have been relieved of his command and charged with theft of government property.

:headbang:
rocknation

[manic expression]

115. I cannot put my emotions into words

I am so angry. Hopefully those "nuns" will live horrible lives and die horrible deaths alone to suffer for countless more lives.

I truly hope that this is an isolated incident.

[Love Bug]

131. When Jesus multiplied the loaves and fishes

he commanded his disciples to distribute the food to the crowd and everyone got something to eat. I don't recall Jesus requiring anyone to do anything before getting some food.

I don't know who did this in India or what group they represent, but WWJD, indeed.

[w4rma]

133. Rude, obnoxious, right-wing Xians. They only CLAIM to be Christian. (nt)

[hedgehog]

134. This story sounds too good to be true

It reeks of some kind of set-up. Unless someone can confirm with details identifying the "nuns", I'd give it the same credence I'd give a Freeper tale.

[w4rma]

135. Why? You don't think there are whacko zealots in the world who would do

this (and worse)? I promose you, that this BS happens all the time with these right-wing fundamentalist Xians.

[Occulus]

137. it happens here, too

[Lydia Leftcoast]

142. But not with Catholics, which is the point that many posters are

trying to make. Catholic Charities in the U.S. provides help without religious discrimination, as do monastic groups such as the Little Sisters of the Poor.

As several posters have pointed out, converting to Catholicism (or any other mainstream variety of Christianity) is a long process. You have to take weeks or months of instruction before being baptized (or confirmed, if you've already been baptized in another denomination).

Some people are so knee-jerk anti-religious that they don't even bother to acknowledge the posts above them that offer background information.

[Name removed]

171. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cobalt Violet]

150. iI believe it.

The people are cruel.

[Massachusetts]

138. Praise Gee Sus

and I'll give you a bottle of water and some biscuits.:evilgrin: O8) :evilfrown:

[Bo]

143. Same in South America....

Poor villages are not given aid until they leave the catholic church and follow stupid fundies from some idiot southern state church...usually pentecostal evagelical....what else is new with these assholes.
jesus loves you

[southlandshari]

181. Bingo

I've been there, I've seen it (see my post #180). It is reprehensible.

[sakabatou]

144. Maybe they should send in a religion that doesn't make people convert...

... before giving aid. Then again, "we have to help our little brown brothers." :puke:

[warrens]

146. I'm a bit skeptical

That story smells. I know people are doing stuff like this, a couple of groups have even admitted it. They do this with the homeless, too. If you wanna eat, you have to listen to the sermon.

But this has the feel of a rumor being reported as fact.

[radric]

148. But it wouldn't have been as much fun!

A search reveals no other mention of this that I could find. If it had been a Muslim relief organization smeared by ANI this thread would have died out at less than 20 posts..

[Fleshdancer]

147. Yeah. Exactly what Jesus wanted from his followers *eyes roll*

could you imagine if Muslims or Hindus flocked to Florida after all the hurricanes and tried to pull this stunt?

[tlcandie]

149. Personally, I think relief aid in these circumstances should BAN

all religious organizations from being at the frontlines and handing out literature one-on-one, evangelizing, etc. ALL of it is sickening!!!

There should be places away from the people where if they CHOOSE to look for religion/spiritual guidance then they can go to this one building, say, where people are standing with literature/handouts/people chomping at the bit to evangelize or whatever!

The food/supplies should be taken to ONE central location and handed out by people of the area PERIOD!!! If they want their names on the items then put stickers on it or the boxes!

If religious people choose to be at the forefront/frontlines then there are no religious symbols, prayers (unless specifically asked for), literature, evangelizing and if caught doing so you will be immediately FINED (nice LARGE Sum) and deported no trials!!!!!

That's my take! Whether this story is true/part truth/fabricated... you know this is happening... we would be fools to think it isn't!!!

[genieroze]

153. WTF!

:grr:

[Megahurtz]

155. OMG! Are you kidding?

:puke:

[Renew Deal]

156. The locals should string them up.

Who would be more uncivilized? The missionaries or the locals?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

168. I love people who advocate for murder

It shows so much about their position.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

173. I'd rather see them boiled n/t

[AliciaKeyedUp]

178. Like I said

Thanks for showing your true colors.

[Renew Deal]

186. I think boiling would be appropriate too.

Right, we are the terrible ones, not the guys holding back food because of religion. BTW, what have you done to help them?

[genieroze]

157. I wonder how much faith ba$ed money they got from *?

[tom_paine]

164. Ah, the new Amerika and it's High Priest Tiberius Bunnypants*

Sure, I could see Busheviks refusing aid to the heathen.

Mayeb some nice smallpox blankets will teach the heathen not to trifle with Amerika!

I would say this isn;t typical of the USA, butthe USA is gone gone GONE to the asheap of history.

I would say this is quite typical of Imperial Amerika and will become even more so as the last generations raised in the freedom of the Old USA die off.

[Divine Discontent]

165. FLAME BAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh the Jesus haters just LOVEEEEEEEEEEE this story. there are a large number of these types on this website that just jump all over this crap, which does sound fishy, but I'll go ahead and believe there are definitely some misguided individuals who would do such a thing. But, the Jesus haters club on here that SWARM to these stories like hogs to the trough, are being what they hate about the right wing fundamentalists - judgemental. I am a Christian, I donated to a largely Muslim (& other belief, including Christian) population's aid. As MILLIONS of Christians did when the Tsunami aid was needed.

Just stop martyring all Christians as being the same as the wack job gaybashing, cut your hair sinner, please no blacks, but we love JEE-SUS! - types...

It's a shame there are so many like that on a progressive & typically sympathetic website for all beliefs.

And to the story itself, if true, it's totally sick & not like Christ at all, any one who studies Christ's words knows better.

God bless them...

[tom_paine]

166. Not refrring to all Christians, merely Bushevik ani-Christians

Not my fault that the anti-Christian population is swelling as it did in Germany of the 1930s.

And I stand by my words. Besides, the chief characteristic of Bush anti-Christians are "not like Christ at all"

(to paraphrase) "blessed are the warmakers for are the Children of Bush"

"cursed are the poor in spirit, the filthy lazy welfare cheats who don't even deserve to vote"

To be honest, Christianity has always had a sizeable population of anti-Christians. It's not my fault this has always been so.

they sang "Gott Mit Uns" and staffed the Concentration Camps
they murdered MILLIONS of "witches" and "heretics" over the course of hundreds of years
they burned and killed millions of Jews because "Jews killed Christ"

(a sentiment making quite a comeback lately, although it is no surprise given the rise once again of anti-Christendom under a Godly Fuhrer)

and on and on.

Does that mean ALL Christians are anti-Christians. No. That has NEVER been true either. Like any group of people there are some good and some bad, some saints and some monsters.

It's not MY fault that's how it is, nor is it my fault that Christians (or anti-Christians if you like, formed the backbone of the Nazi and Bushevik Movements).

[Medium Baby Jesus]

174. Not FLAME BAIT!!!!!!

It's a news story for christ's sake. Christians have been fucking up civilizations all around the world for decades. I read the bible. Don't get me started on the bullshit in that fictional piece of crap.

[Divine Discontent]

182. yeah, flame bait....

non-Christians have sinned massively also because we all have fallen short of the glory, regardless if you choose to believe what I and other Christians believe or not. to us, it's the facts. finding a personal relationship with Christ in this life does NOT mean you aren't going to ever sin again, or if you don't believe in the word "sin", then "do wrong to others" will fit nicely.

Catholic Nuns that pull this crap are like sheeple, like most people are, anyhow. People do what they see others do, or what they're told, in general.

Example - Instead of standing under protected covering until the lines died down, a hundred people around me saw ONE person leave our covered spot and went and stood in line for the circus in the cold rain and wind. Only 4 of us stayed til the lines died... meanwhile, dozens of people got sick all because they felt they just had to do what EVERYONE else was doing... and that kind of CRAP goes on every day in our world. We, as a people, are generally, a bunch of airheads and afraid of anything different, and follow whatever our "leaders" tell us. So the Nuns did just that, and for that, I hope they feel the shame that this blindly unsympathetic act demonstrates. I pray for those who might listen to God to do so in these troubling times.

[louis-t]

167. This is one of the dangers

of sending Christian missionaries to do relief work. Anyone with half a brain could have seen it coming. Such good 'Chrsstyens'.

[arwalden]

175. Raise Your Hand If This Surprises You.... Anyone? And Who Here Believes

... that this sort of thing isn't happening (or bound to happen) with the "faith-based" charities that receives FEDERAL funding?

[Rex]

177. It's what Jesus did - deny food to those that didn't believe in God.

Saw it in the new King Karl Rove version of the Bible!

[Wendigo]

179. Deja Vu

I recall that scum Franklin Graham using his "relief organization" to attempt to convert Catholic villagers after the earthquake in El Salvador. Apparently they're even trying to make inroads into Iran...

[seraph]

183. Does George Know? (nt)

[Bridget Burke]

188. Is there another source for this story?

What specific NGO was involved? What order did the "Nuns" belong to? You don't convert to Catholicism overnight.

There have been Catholics in that part of India for centuries. I doubt Catholic missionaries would want to cause trouble for their people.

[Divine Discontent]

189. ding ding ding ding!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we got a winner! excellent point about how Catholics do things....

conversion right there on the spot for them, before food & water seems out of place, even for the worst of the Catholics. I know, we all know, there are some nuttynuns out there.