Two Million Black Americans Are Still Not Free at Last

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_17156.shtml

"Voting is the American way," says Miles, an ex-felon staying at the Union Rescue Mission in Los Angeles. "Once it's taken, you become a third-class citizen, and you can't participate in what this country's all about and what wars were fought for."

"Losing the right to vote affects my views of those in power," said Steve, with an unmistakable inflection of regret in his voice. "I believe in democracy, but not the way they're trying to use it."

The mysterious "they" was a recurring theme among the ex-felons I talked to, showing how so many ex-felons who lose the right to vote in turn feel that American politics is something conducted by other people, for other people.

BJ concurs, "It makes me mad, upset. If you can't vote, you can't get no change in office. It's frustrating. I might as well just stay in jail. I know it's wrong. I pray every day things change."

more

[babylonsister]

1. Join the growing crowd. Sucks, doesn't it?

[VegasWolf]

2. The black box "voting machines" won't count them anyway.

[bemildred]

3. The new Jim Crow laws. nt

[vpigrad]

4. Perverting of the word felon!

Originally a felon was someone who had proven themselves unable to live within society. Now the repukes have turned it into something that means someone that's done something that some white pig in blue doesn't like. It's amazing how little of a thing these days can turn you into a felon.

[superconnected]

5. "white pig in blue "

interesting.

[candy]

9. Any black pigs in blue? What the hell do you mean? n't

[AliciaKeyedUp]

10. Little things like rape, murder

nt

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tx_dem41]

15. I believe the post that made things...

a little hateful was the one that included the phrase "white pig in blue".

[DukeBlue]

20. I have

friends who are convicted of DWI. Not a felony. Reckless driving, not a felony.

The only driving felony I am aware of is vehicular manslaughter. This is usually only applied to people who kill others with their car while doing something exceptionally stupid or driving drunk. An appropriate felony in my view.

She has a point. If the law is applied fairly to all people what is the problem? If you are a convicted felon you loose your right to own a gun, vote, and work certain places.

Moral of the story don't commit felonies.

[DrWeird]

26. You think laws are applied fairly?

nt

[jayctravis]

13. You know I almost accidentally committed a felony?

When went to school at University I went on a summer job for 2 months and forgot to return some library books before I went.

Brought them back on registration day and was told how fortunate I was to get them in when I did. Within a couple of weeks it would have been considered "stealing from the government" and I would have been charged with a FELONY. I would have gone to jail for overdue library books.

And I guess be ineligible to vote.

[Bono71]

21. self delete

[damntexdem]

6. Hey, those ex-felons need not feel alone:

increasingly those of us who still have the supposed right to vote aren't so sure that our votes are being counted.

Yes, it IS important to advocate for not taking away the votes of felons released from prison. But BBV threatens to disenfranchise all of us.

[DukeBlue]

7. The felony rule applies

to everyone. Including white people..

http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/deputy/Documents/unsafeschool/criminaloffenselist.html

Short list of felonies, (rape, murder, child abuse, armed robbery, etc) now why should someone who committed these crimes ever be able to vote, own a gun, or get a job with the federal government?

I think the government should be spending more time trying to get minorities into college. Breaking the cycle of violence, crime, and dependency.

[pop goes the weasel]

12. there are plenty of non-violent felonies

See http://www.new-york-arraignments.com/Bnonviolent.htm for examples.

Even for violent felonies, why shouldn't someone who commits armed robbery as a young person, who spends 10 years or what have you in prison, straightens up, gets a job and lives honestly thereafter, get to vote? Furthermore, if you look at the list of violent crimes you provided a link to, you will see that not all the crimes listed are necessarilly violent. Burglary, for instance, can be non-violent. Moreover, it is well known that there are people in prison for felonies because a gun was supposedly involved, but whether that gun was planted, loaded, brandished, or actually in the physical possession of the person snetenced is highly dependent on local law enforcement and local justice.

You might want to take a look at http://slate.msn.com/id/78066/ and http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=21662 for a fuller discussion.

[DukeBlue]

18. Animal Abuse

is a felony in my state. Lots of things are felonies, none of them good.

The law here is that is you commit a felony you loose you right to vote, own a gun, and work for the state or feds. I believe you can not be a member of the Bar Assoc or a LEO.

Because this law is applied evenly across race and gender it seems fair to me.

I own a business and would never hire a violent felon period ever, under no circumstance. I will not hire someone with a misdemeanor conviction of theft, spousal abuse, or drug charges, multiple DWI. I will not hire someone who has multiple INDICTMENTS of theft, etc. That goes with the nature of my business.

If I had a maid service I would still use the same hiring rules. I consider this fair because I apply it to everyone who applies, even people I have know for years.

I'm not saying a felon is a bad person, but people are responsible for their choices. Unless the law changes this is not a race issue to me.

[BUSHOUT]

27. "Because this law is applied evenly across race it seems fair to me.".....

You're thinking in dreamland DukeBlue.

The whole fucking point is that the law is not applied evenly. More blacks are convicted than whites. Whites catch a lot of breaks in some jurisdictions. Poverty and race contributes to people getting a poor defense which contributes to bad convictions. Wealth and race contributes to some folks getting a top notch defense and bad acquittals. Get it?

It's a race issue if more blacks are denied the right to vote over it, correct?
Owning a gun is one thing, but the right to vote is another. Why take away this democratic right from people? Why? To dehumanize them? Do you think it makes them better people?
We should take away thier right to wear clothes also. Felons are animals who deserve to suffer, right?

[NNN0LHI]

14. If you deny someone the right to democratically change their government...

...with their vote what other options are left? You are seeing the results of such a situation in Iraq right now.

Don

[bemildred]

17. Sounds like incarceration without representation.

A convenient way to keep "undesirables" from voting; used widely
in repressive regimes all over the world.

[DukeBlue]

19. Why is this an issue.

If you are convicted of a felony you can't vote, own a gun, or get a job with certain groups. It applies to all races and genders. The law here does not say X cant vote if convicted.

I have managed to live my life and not be charged with a felony. I have been arrested for civil disobedience, which is not a felony. I have been arrested for public urination, and public intoxication. In my young and dumb days. Not felonies. Not pertinent to my ability to work in a controlled, dangerous place.

If I had been arrested for Narcotics possession, murder, or rape would you want to share lab space with me? Would you hire me to work in a chemical formulation lab with access to all kind of stuff that can be used to make everything from synthetic pain killers to acetylcholinesterase inhibitors? Would you want me driving a truck with volatile chemicals on board?

[bemildred]

22. Why should the right to vote not be an issue?

Are you nuts? To be sure you may disagree, but to say it
should not be an issue is ridiculous.

[DukeBlue]

24. A little nuts sure

This is a voting issue. It is a legal issue as well. The law here says if you are convicted of a felony you loose your voting rights.

Moral of the story don't commit felonies. If the law said any crime I would be more concerned.

I said it is not a RACE issue. The law applies to all felons.

[bemildred]

25. Right. And some of us think the law is racist in it's effect,

and we think that is a bad thing and needs to be changed. "Felony"
means whatever the legislature says it means, and legislatures are
often full of shit. We have both the right and duty as citizens to
criticize and correct their errors by throwing their asses out of
office and having their stupid and racist errors corrected.

[DukeBlue]

30. I live

in a state where the Governor and legislative branch has been Democrat for ages, decades. The Governor received 9 out of 10 black votes. If they feel the need to repeal the law fine.

But there are white felons too. If you commit a felony you loose rights. I guess we can agree to disagree. But voters in my state, including minority voters, elected representatives who uphold this law.

Felony is clearly defined in the statutes and the VAST majority of them are very serious offenses. The silly ones are usually stuff stupid white people do. Poaching, check kiting(not bouncing, writing multiple bad checks knowing they will not clear), and killing a domestic animal are felonies in my state. IMHO they should be.

I will argue that crime is related to poverty which breeds helplessness. That leaves people with hard choices and one of them is to commit a felony to live. It is a choice and it has consequences. By concentrating on jails and punishment we are skipping the root cause. Different thread.

[BUSHOUT]

29. That person didn't refer to race.

Why do you keep bringing up race?

They talked about the right to vote, and you defended yourself by stressing it's not a race issue.

Just because more blacks have been convicted of felonies doesn't make this a race issue. It's a right to vote issue. Let them vote, they're Americans. Even if they're black, they're still Americans. Let them vote. Blacks do most of your fighting for you, let them vote.

:eyes:

[DukeBlue]

31. Uhh

I'm new here but have been on Usenet since you had to put your handset on the modem.

The thread topic is about RACE, hence its title. I did my own fighting and served with blacks and Hispanics. We keep up they aren't felons, neither are their kids.

[BUSHOUT]

37. You're not good at this forum thing. "That person" means post 22, the one

you were replying to.

The topic deals with race, the post you replied to did not.

And can you translate this sentence for me please:
"We keep up they aren't felons, neither are their kids."
thx.

[NNN0LHI]

23. When a convicted drunk driver can be president of the USA its an issue

If a criminal can be the president, criminals should certainly be allowed to vote for who the president is. Don't you think?

Don

[DukeBlue]

34. DWI is a misdemeanor.

My buddies would rotate whose turn it was to drive home drunk based on who got caught last. DWI was a joke until the early eighties.

DWI is the LEAST of his criminal endeavors.

[BUSHOUT]

28. Good for you, you're a good boy.

Let me guess, you're white. Ever been pulled over because a crime had been committed and you "matched" the description?

Didn't think so.

[DukeBlue]

32. Yeah

I'm white. I've been arrested and "convicted" (paid the fine) for civil disobedience because I looked wrong, even though I earned a cib.

I've been arrested for public urination and public intoxication and enjoyed the county jail weekend stay. I didn't call my mommy to bail me out.

Those aren't felonies. They didn't stop me from living a normal life.

How about you have you ever been pulled over, fuck, I've been pulled over more times than I can remember and it has ranged from have a nice day to the full harassment.

My point is that letting felons vote is not race specific.

You want to talk about poverty and prejudice that is a very real and race specific set of problems.

[BUSHOUT]

36. You missed my point about crime and punnishment.

It is a race issue. Minorities and poor people make up a greater per-capita population of felons due to unfair justice system practices.
So if you're talking about felons it's a race issue.

If you wish to leave race out of it that's OK, and the question about letting felons vote can be discussed independent of the race issue.

It's a common sense question and the answer is let them vote. Not letting them vote helps nobody and solves nothing. If anything, it makes things worse.

[Boosterman]

33. Im white and I have

Seriously. Its not the same thing at all but one time I came home and there were about 20 cop cars in and around my neighborhood. being an idiot i suggested to my friend that we walk around the block and see what was going on. Made it about 4 houses and 4 cop cars surrounded me. Seems the were looking for a bad white guy wearing a white t shirt and blue jeans. DOH. They interrogated me for about an hour (my friend too) and I probably would have been in serious trouble if they didnt end up catching the guy they were looking for. Memphis cops arent known for their integrity.

[420inTN]

8. In many states, an ex-felon may petition ...

to have their right to vote (and other rights) restored.

[Virginia Dem]

16. Exactly

in most states an ex-felon CAN petition to regain voting rights.

[DemoTex]

35. US-80 .. Meridian to Montgomery (as a subset of Dallas to Brevard).

I have driven it 25-30 times .. maybe more. I always go through downtown Selma, on that route. I like crossing the Edmund Pettis Bridge, and reflecting on its historical significance. Selma gets a world-class guilt-trip going in my mind.


Edmund Pettis Bridge
Selma, Alabama