Rice, Kerry duel over Iraq strategy (MSNBC)

[rodeodance]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6837779/

Rice, Kerry duel over Iraq strategy
Nominee links departure to nation's self-defense capability

By Andrea Mitchell

NBC News correspondent

Updated: 1:20 p.m. ET Jan. 18, 2005

WASHINGTON - Testifying before senators at her confirmation hearing, Secretary of State nominee Condoleezza Rice was grilled Tuesday by Sen. John Kerry about what he said was a failure to adequately train Iraqis to defend themselves.

Kerry, in his first appearance at the Foreign Relations Committee since his unsuccessful presidential bid, was withering in his criticism. And unlike his colleagues, he said he was reserving a decision on whether to vote for Rice.

Kerry was particularly critical about Rice's earlier answers to Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., about the number of trained Iraqi forces and the U.S. exit strategy in Iraq..........



Biden said he'd been to Iraq three times and felt her estimate was too high. “I think you’ll find, if you speak to the folks on the ground, they don’t think there’s more than 4,000 actually trained Iraqi forces,” he said, citing a trainer in Amman, Jordan, as one source for that number.......lots more

[soleft]

1. He was withering in his criticism - what the hell does that mean

How and you grill someone and be withering?

[wildflower]

9. The criticism was withering (against Rice); but it does seem as though...

the phrasing about Kerry was deliberately constructed so that the reader could take it either way.

-wildflower

[olddad56]

27. It means that the media has been ordered to ...

portray him as a wimp that is too weak to have ever made a good president. America needs to know they made the right choice.

[Bake]

35. Wrong. "Withering criticism" is STRONG criticism.

Such that it causes its target to wither.

Bake

[Just Me]

43. He made his point,...quite successfully.

No radical or zealot or control-freak or crusader,...can change that.

I finally had the opportunity to view his eloquent questioning.

I am impressed.

And,...it was freakin' cool to watch Barbara take bat with this neocon "babe"!!!

To me,...as an observer (yes, I'll admit with far more knowledge than the average American,...BUT, living as an average citizen among my rural peers),...she came off as "white-ivory tower" material. She identified with NOTHING other than her own success,...as if,...she got caught in her own muck.

She's a fraud,...just like "George". They are not even REAL human beings because,...they cannot express any empathy, except for themselves.

[Laurab]

50. I was impressed too

He made a couple of points quite successfully - I think it was the prosecuter coming out - hey, we need a good prosecuter!

Really, I was impressed by all the dems I saw speak, but Boxer certainly stood out in the crowd - I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of that one. And imagine her using condi's own quotes to "question her integrity"...sheesh! I was also impressed with Boxer's obvious emotion about the wrongness of the reason for war and the torture. I'm in NY, but I think I'm adopting Boxer and Kerry as my senators.

I really did get the feeling condi wasn't a real person - I was thinking : "is she plastic or something"? If she showed any emotion at all, well, I don't think it's an emotion, but the only one I can think of is a little bit of arrogance, and her trying hard not to let it show.

[warrens]

40. Withering means brutal

As in withering gunfire.

[artr2]

2. Too bad he didn't run his campaign that way

nt

[AuntiBush]

3. Kerry and Boxer let Condi have it today!

On C-Span, Senators Kerry and Boxer really let her have it. When Boxer was done with her, I swore I seen Condi's lips quivering, seriously!

California has a lot to be proud of having Boxer in D.C. for them. Though I did not catch the name of the Senator from Illinois, he threw some very powerful punches at Ms. Quiver Lips Condi, as well!

[Just Me]

25. I missed Kerry but caught Boxer bustin' butt!!!

She was NOT going to allow double-speak and bullshit replace facts and truth.

Condi's response, ",...don't (how dare) you question MY integrity,..."

But, Boxer just kept up the pressure on facts and truth. I was very, very proud of that strong, pro-democracy lady!!! :bounce:

[warrens]

41. Dick Durbin is the Sen. from Illinois n/t

[Career Prole]

4. "The goal is to get the mission accomplished," she added.

Oh? And how will we know when that is? Will you put up a sign of some sort, perhaps?

[AuntiBush]

7. Good one!

Oh, wait... no, they'll merely dip into the Education funds and begin a pat on the back campaign. It's the latest craze in Bushites administration.

[Supersedeas]

14. a pat on the back and cha-ching in the wallet campaign--Rovian style

[uppityperson]

5. Yeah, go Kerry go, wither that female dog in heat.

Now, if she'd give a real answer...

[underpants]

6. Does she LOOK like she was effected?

Secretary of State-designate Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) answers questions from Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), D-Mass., during her confirmation hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Capitol Hill in Washington Tuesday, Jan. 18, 2005. (AP Photo/Gerald Herbert)

[AuntiBush]

8. She makes me ill!

Not 1 answer. Not a one! You could see the frustration building-up in Kerry, but wow - when Boxer started, I could here the boxing bells a ringing! Repuks better watch out for Boxer. She's on a mission w/tons of support from around the country.

But Condi... I know I seen her quiver just a tad. Witch!

[rachelbirds]

12. Not at all

She's doing alot better than i thought she would. Of course she had the questions before hand.

[NYC]

52. Those photographs are wonderful.

Thank you very, very much. :hi:

[malachi]

10. WTF's the difference? They'll vote to confirm this incompetent

asshole anyway.

[rachelbirds]

13. it's pretty much

a done deal, i think.

[Dr Fate]

11. Words are great. Not voting for her would be better. n/t

n/t

[radric]

15. Too late to grow a pair now Mr. Kerry..

should have demonstrated this type of aggressiveness prior to the election.

[emulatorloo]

16. P.A.O.J.K.D.N.I.M.

Petty Attacks on John Kerry Do Not Impress Me

Or on other good Dems either.

So sorry he was mean to Condi. . .

:nopity:

[Laurab]

28. Nor do they impress me

It would appear from several emails I've received today (from Truthout), that JK was,in fact on a fact-finding mission, and is asking for Rumsfield to be fired, as well as coming out hard-hitting with FACTS. IMO this is exactly what he needs to be doing. He knows the diplomacy * turned down, and can pound the administration with facts. I for one don't care if he's doing it because he wants to run in '08 or not. I'll make my decision on '08 when the time comes, it just doesn't matter now - particularly if my vote won't count.

I wish people would give up the "he let me down". He was missing that one important thing - FACTS. Without them, there was nothing he could do, except make himself look foolish. It would appear that he has now gathered some facts about shrubass'es "diplomacy", and although apparently a lot of DU'ers, along with * and his administration, would like him to go away, I think he's just beginning to fight. I think it's gonna be real interesting - with him and Barbara Boxer for starters, I'm thinking * co is going to have some major fighting on his hands.

It's really all about the FACTS.

edit: typo

[Just Me]

31. It's destructive rather than productive. We need to be productive.

We need to be productive in the "here and now" and avoid the dialogue of destruction.

If a representative does something, today, which we believe adversely impacts "the people", it's a good thing to write them a productive letter stating our position and an alternative solution rather than fall into the character-assasination trap the right-wing uses against us.

Just my take on the flame-obsession these days. We can do better. Do we ever see the right-wing beating the crap out of the majority of the Republican "representatives"? No. Hence, we're practically helping them defeat us,...even though we're the "warriors for democracy" and "advocates for 'the people'" via the values of justice, equality and fairness.

*sigh*

[Lizzie Borden]

32. What she said!

[emulatorloo]

44. thnx for the update . . . EOM

[leesa]

49. Little late, ain't it? He just announced his campaign. He's freakin'

campaigning again. I don't think it means a blessed thing.

[girl gone mad]

42. Thank you! n/t

[keopeli]

18. Agreed. I have no respect for Kerry who broke his only real vow to me

that election 2004 would not be another Florida. That's what he said, but what did he do? Nothing. I don't care about the "there was no way we could win" crap. That's what losers say. Winners never give up. Now, no matter how good-intentioned he may have been, democracy is gone. Because of Kerry's failure to act on his words, he is at least partially at fault. It was his responsibility, and he was the only person in a position to do ANYTHING about it.

Further, I don't give a flying SH*$ about some hearing and "strong words". Utter bullsh#*. Actions are the only thing that means anything. ACTIONS - NOT WORDS. ACTIONS. ACTIONS. ACTIONS. DO IT.

How many Senators contested the Electoral Vote?

ACTIONS!!!

Did Kerry contest his OWN ELECTIONS?

ACTIONS!!!

Didn't Bush* say he did not believe in nation building?

ACTIONS!!!

So Condi was whithering, eh? Will she be approved? Will she do what she says?

ACTIONS!!!

[booksenkatz]

19. keopeli, this is for you

Yours is the best post of the day, it really sums up everything I'm feeling these days. I'm sad to say that I'm down to the bone with Dems, and I've been a yellow dog since 1986. I need to see actions and I need to see them now. I'm on the team of Boxer and the ever-wonderful CBC; everyone else seems to sit on his or her ass. I don't want to be in the Big-Talking, Ass Sitting Party. That's NOT why I'm a Dem. It is NOT what the Dem party represents, or should represent. I want a revolt within the party to throw out the Big-Talking Ass Sitters.

Thank you.

[Wisc Badger]

21. I know this may sound trite

but some one has to be Secretary of State (even though I realize the real SOS is Bush and Cheney) and that some one will be a Republican because of the unfortunate person we have as Chief Executive.

How do the Democrats gain by defeating Condi (not that I would mind all that much)? You would just get another Bush shill as a replacement.
:shrug:

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. Actually I'm glad Condi is going to be Secretary of State

because she is such a bad liar and I doubt if she can handle the pressure.

I don't think she'll last long has SOS. She's in way over her little bobble head.

[booksenkatz]

36. TRUE, the Bush shills are running things regardless; however....

it makes me burst with pride when (some) Dems stand up and point these things out vociferously and do everything in our understandably limited power to say HELL NO. Yes, yes, the night is coming and we all have to die and the world will end someday. But I will not go gently into that night and I will continue to fight the Republicans, even though my body will be nothing but shit dust one of these days. I'm an agnostic, I don't know if there's anything beyond this earth, this life, worth fighting for, but I do know that I feel compelled to fight here and now, today, if for no other reason than my little boy and thinking about the world we're leaving behind for him and his generation.

Standing up and fighting can, at the very least, point out the TRUTH to the brainless masses who can't seem to put 2 and 2 together for themselves.

(Catch me on some other days -- I often get into some real dark funks and give up and say "what's the use," LOL)
:crazy:

[keopeli]

24. Thanks for the affirmation, patsified! I guess that makes 2 or 3 of us

I'm reminded of a verse from the bible. I hope you don't mind me quoting it for you here. It speaks of when the Jews were taken into captivity and carried off to Iraq (Babylon). Their captors wanted them to sing for them, and this is what they had to say. To me, I feel as a stranger in my own homeland. (Words in parentheses are by me)

By the rivers of Babylon we sat down and wept when we remembered Zion (democracy).
For the wicked (hypocritical leaders were Jesus' enemies) carried us away into captivity and required that we sing a song, but how can we even think about a song while we are in this strange land.
So, let the words I speak and the meditations of my heart be acceptable enough for you, God.

[Nancy Waterman]

48. Jimmy Cliff put that verse to music

I think it is called the Rivers of Babylon

Play the song clip:

http://www.mp3.com/tracks/1713560/dl_streams.html

[jamesinca]

33. And that is why Boxer is my Senator

I have not been here a lot in the last few months, good to see you again Patsified.

[booksenkatz]

37. Hi!

I had to take 2 months off after the election just to come to terms with it -- I may come to CA and move in with you and your lovely family, LOL! Hope they're all well, I need to email M when I get a chance. Life is so busy with one kid, how do you do it with more than one???

[NYC]

53. It will be interesting to see how Kerry votes.

We'll see if his actions match his words.

[Zhade]

22. When do we cut him some slack?

I'm no fan of the 2004 Kerry - at ALL, as many people here know - but if he does start fighting, even at this late time, he deserves credit, yes? I mean, I wrote Boxer off after she voted for Negroponte, then she stood up on 1/6 and I had to agree that it was courageous. So she's redeemed herself a little in my eyes.

I'll see if Kerry backs up his words with his vote, of course. So this is just a friendly suggestion: wait until he votes. If he votes for this traitorous bitch, or Gonzalez, then by all means rip him a new one.

[Just Me]

39. When we SEE the RW manipulating our anger against us.

That's what I figure.

The RW is waging a (safe, I guess) bet that we'll beat up on ourselves and anyone who fails to be "perfect",...essentially advancing their cause which has no principles or values other than their own success.

The RW has one principle we lack: cohesion.

Oh, well.

I'll watch at my bewilderment.

[Zhade]

51. Well, you and I both know there's a difference...

...between expecting perfection and witnessing appeasement.

Kerry, the last four years, sure seemed to veer toward the latter more than the former. We'll see where he heads now. If he actually does take on the fraud seriously, I'll applaud him.

Talk is cheap, though.

[Larkspur]

17. What? Is Kerry planning on running for Prez?

Oh, wait! He already did that and lost, but he did look like he was sleepwalking through the whole GE. Maybe he woke up after spending vacation with Arnie and Marie.

[KittyWampus]

34. Kerry Looked Like He Was SLEEPING? Maybe From Fox Or FR

but the pictures and stories I saw on Kerry had him working to the point of exhaustion and losing his voice.

[Mountainman]

20. I get so pissed when I read this stuff Rice says.

Other countries offer to train Iraqis and we tell them no and yet she states that the problem is untrained security forces.

Everyone knows the reason we are there is because the neocons want it and they want the country for themselves. Why isn't that said in the hearings? We all know it!

We want the oil and we want to control the country and we want the Iraqis to do the dying for us. That is the goal!

If Dems would stand up and make a case for the truth we would all be better off!

[Lloyd Christmas]

23. Hits nail on head

[underpants]

29. If you want them you have to open up the bank

I said that a long time ago and it becomes more and more clear everyday.

[Mountainman]

30. I want this to become an international thing with us playing smaller

and smaller roll. I will pay for that much faster than I would for what we are doing now.

[dvaravati]

38. he will confirm her

thats all that matters.

[Magmadona]

45. Boxer is good.

She kicked Condi's demonic ass. :D

[fshrink]

46. Take it out on the dog.

[0007]

47. Kerry was withering in his criticism?

Andrea Mitchell must be taking money under the table from the junior crime family. Because It sure wasn't what I saw and heard today.