Moscow Plans First Stalin Monument Since 1960s

[truthpusher]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&u=/nm/20050119/wl_nm/russia_stalin_dc_2&printer=1

Moscow Plans First Stalin Monument Since 1960s

2 hours, 22 minutes ago

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Moscow plans to erect a new statue of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, returning his once-ubiquitous image to its streets after an absence of four decades, a top city official said Wednesday.

Since President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) was elected in 2000, a number of Soviet symbols -- including the national anthem and an army flag -- have been restored to use, reflecting widespread nostalgia for Russia's communist years.

(snip)

Interfax news agency reported earlier that a Stalin monument would also be built in the Belgorod region near the Ukrainian border to mark the Soviet victory against Nazi Germany 60 years ago -- seen as the country's greatest military triumph.

In another sign of Stalin's growing appeal, state television channels have shown a number of prime-time television shows in recent months depicting him in a positive light.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&u=/nm/20050119/wl_nm/russia_stalin_dc_2&printer=1

[Maestro]

1. That is pathetic

A paranoid murderer is being honored? What next?

[VegasWolf]

2. Yes, but here they will name an airport after our paranoid murderer.n/t

[GHOSTDANCER]

39. We worship dollar bills with their faces on it. Downtown is your new

temple. Take a good look at who owns those really fancy ones, the big ones on the front facade. Hell they own all the others too, have you checked your contracts lately. Church of the ATM Sickos on a self destruction course. All I can say is "The creator" is gonna be one pissed off SOB when he gets back.

As for the statue, It's just pooty pooot.... rubbing our faces in the democracy Pooh.

[DrWeird]

3. A paranoid murderer getting inaugurated.

nt

[Maestro]

5. Yes, true -nt

[Doctor Panacea]

6. It's everywhere

Insanity abroad, insanity at home.

Seriously, it is always the same stuff all over the world, with some modifications for each country. Religious zealots at home, religious zealots in the Middle East. Mindless worship of an evil, self-centered leader in Russia; mindless worship of an evil, self-centered leader at home.

[Emboldened Chimp]

24. In all fairness, Bush is not Stalin

not yet...

[DrWeird]

25. In all fairness, you can't denounce Stalin

and still support Bush.

[Emboldened Chimp]

26. Who here is doing that?

I sure hope you're not implying that I am...

[DrWeird]

28. No, not you.

Nor anybody here.

[tom_paine]

13. Not pathetic at all. Merely in keeping with the Age of BushPutinism

or the Age of Totalitarianism, at who's doorstep we sit.

Totalitarians and Totalitarianism, starting with the Fall of the Old American Republic and the beginning of Imperial Amerika in 2000, are experiencing the massive upsurge that one would expect duringthis time of transition from foolish Liberal Democracy to Muscular BushPutinism and other variants of the Totalitarian Dream.

Paranoid murderers are in, don't you know, as is the unquestioning Orwellian Fuhrer Worship that feeds them and makes people like Tiberius Bunnypants* possible.

Reviving Stalin Worship of a Monstrous Dictator is no nuttier than the Unquestion Fuhrer Worships the Busheviks have for THEIR Maonstrous Dictator.

Busheviks and Bolsheviks are definitely cut from the same cloth, only their economic philosophies differ.

[Maestro]

20. So true -nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

4. Is it just me or does this look like a

"thumbing your nose" kind of thing?

[RedCloud]

7. Woo Hoo! the Georgian makes another triumphant return.

Unlike many here, I know Joseph Steel was well loved by the masses.
I know the USA decided to finance the Nazis and let their forces blood let the USSR to the tune of 56,000,000 dead.
Then the USA repaid its WWII ally so desperate to rebuild from the devastation by telling them it had "lost" their aid request and immediately funding to rebuild our common fascist enemies, Germany, Japan and Italy who were just mere naughty boys.
The USSR had to get even more desperate, so Joe Steel started using bogus prison time to get some work done. We now see this crap at play in the USA.
The USA and GB did use reporters and what not as spies. Let us not be in such a state of fascist furor to start hurling stones. Let us not forget that fascists were allowed pretty freely into the USA and took great jobs in the FBI and the newly formed CIA. Notice how we have Blondie heroes in the movies for a while???

But alas, I favored Trotsky.

[The Magistrate]

10. Your Comedic Efforts Are Appreciated, Sir

There is no point to supplying facts where the intent is so obvious....

[Redstone]

12. "Joseph Steel was well loved by the masses"

Right up to the moment when he had them executed?

Redstone

[LisaL]

40. It's absolutely the truth. The force of propaganda was such that

despite the fact that Stalin ordered killing of 20-30 million Russians, masses still loved him. Because they were brainwashed into beleiving that he was kind of like God.
But to have his monument build in Russia now? Have they lost their minds?

[Chicago Democrat]

29. From the thirties to the fifties, I'm sure the entire generation

who were fed "papa Jo" paternalistic propaganda lives on in their fantasies.

Much like how some war loving Christians justify the complete contradiction between what Jesus said vs. they believe he said.

[Igel]

42. Yes, the masses by and large loved Stalin.

He saved them from the nasty capitalists of the NEP. From the fascist Germans. From the racist, oppressive Americans. And what he did bad never made the newspapers; everybody was convinced that *their* uncle Vanya was the only Ivan hauled away. And the Tatars and Chechens ... well, they supported Hitler. At Stalin's death, hundreds of thousands lined up to see his body, most sincerely crying. (I've been taught by Russians old enough to remember it, and go teary in class. I've also been taught by Russians that fled the Bolsheviks: one in 1920, another in the mid-70s.) Many Russians still can say nothing bad of Uncle Joe, and even more have trouble speaking evil of Vladimir Il'ich.

Most people thought conquering a free Siberia was the right thing to do, and believed the mock revolutions in various other upstart "countries" that were used to justify absorption into the USSR were real.

Then again, Hitler was adored by many Germans. Sigh.

The USSR certainly did its part in making sure Hitler was able to deal mostly with one problem at a time. Molotov-Ribbentrop ring any bells? Stalin was perfectly content to let Hitler destroy Western Europe, assured that he could grab some popcorn and sit back and watch decadent European countries be crushed. Lenin was Germany's blowback, and Stalingrad was Stalin's. FDR wasn't exactly itching to get into the fray.

The concentration camps certainly flourished before WWII. They even saw a bit of growth before Stalin came along. But there was a great influx of POWs returning from Germany that beefed up the ranks.

As for help, let's not forget lend-lease. It was a loan, but the USSR never acknowledged it in public after 1945. For a while you'd see war stories that mentioned American food, weapons, supplies. But they vanished. They surfaced again in the late 80s, but by then most of the readers were puzzled by the references. After the war I'm not at all sure that Stalin wanted western/US help. We were quickly portrayed as having claimed the glory of defeating Hitler for our own, and letting the Soviet Army take crushing losses while we sat on our keisters until the heavy lifting was done.

The USSR, US, Britain, etc., all did their spying. Let's not paint the devil blacker than he is, or whiter.

[Az_lefty]

8. God, we're all taking a giant step backwards.

[w4rma]

9. Bush looked into his eyes and saw his soul and liked what he saw. (nt)

[bloodyjack]

18. What he saw was THE ABYSS

[American Tragedy]

36. Perhaps he saw himself.

Or what he wants to be.

[daleo]

11. They need Stalin as a symbol to counteract Bush.

Since Bush is acting more and more Hitler like.

[Jack_DeLeon]

14. yeah Stalin was a murdering asshole...

but I dont necessarily see anything wrong with having a statue of him in Russia. He is after all for better or worse a symbol of Russian History, and a true rags to riches story. Any poor kid off the street can look up to Stalin and aspire to one day become a ruthless dictator.

[JohnLocke]

19. LOL

Any poor kid off the street can look up to Stalin and aspire to one day become a ruthless dictator.

:D

[David__77]

15. There's nothing wrong with that at all--he's an anti-fascist leader.

He led the Red Army to victory over the fascists. Without his leadership, the Soviet Union might have fell to the Nazis. Whatever else one may say about him, this is the case. I understand why he has the respect of so many people in the former Soviet Union.

[Massachusetts]

16. "Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss".

What's that about we won't get fooled again?

[gauguin57]

17. Holy Fascist Flashback, Batman!

Good lord. Elect an ole KGB dude your president, and that's whatcha get.

And when you elect an ole CIA dude your president, you get his idiot, fascist son, being inaugurated a second time.

[Chicago Democrat]

21. Who was worse Stalin or Hitler?

Pretty much a tie.... I guess Hitler, only because he started WWII.

[ECH1969]

22. Both Hitler and Stalin invaded Poland

Hitler invaded and marched East and Russia invaded and moved West.

[Chicago Democrat]

23. True! and then Stalin invaded Finland in 39 and Romania in '40!

While still Hitler's ally. If Hitler hadn't of betrayed him in June 41, there is little doubt, Nazi Germany would have won the war. So I still say Hitler is the greater rogue only because Germany invaded Russia and not the other way around. In terms of death count, of course, its close to a tie.


While I do believe there are great parallels between present day American Corporatists Neo Cons and fascist Italy. The Bushies have a long way to go to be as bad as Hitler and Stalin.

[jmowreader]

27. Boy, there's a choice for ya!

Kinda like "which is the worst disease, inoperable cancer that's spread throughout your body, or late-stage AIDS?"

I give Stalin a very slight edge in this contest for one reason: both of them murdered millions, but Stalin collected up people who were absolutely loyal to him and had them shot because they served in the old Russian government. Hitler didn't go quite that far.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. No, Hitler only decreed an entire race/culture wasn't worthy of existing.

Much milder. NOT.

[jmowreader]

37. And you're telling me the USSR was the land of milk and honey?

Stalin hated pretty much every race and culture Hitler did, PLUS about two-thirds of his own countrymen, and if Hitler wouldn't have made the dumb-ass mistake of invading the Soviet Union, those two would have gotten along famously.

Google up Marshal of the Soviet Union Konstantin Konstantinovich Rokossovsky if you want to see what kind of a man Stalin was.

Adolf Hitler was the scum of the earth and they had to invent a new place to put him to keep him from contaminating Hell for the run-of-the-mill sinner. But Stalin was a little bit worse.

[Zynx]

34. Hitler for a few reasons:

1. Hitler is responsible for over fifty million deaths. I blame all of the European theater deaths on him and I believe that I am justified in doing so. Stalin killed fewer then.

2. The methods Hitler used were for more devious and evil than those of Stalin. Most of those that Stalin killed died of starvation or some other cause. Nearly all of those that Hitler killed died brutally.

3. Hitler was active about spreading his ideology of death around the world. Stalin was not.

[Endangered Specie]

30. Old habits are hard to break.

[American Tragedy]

31. My God, tell me this is a joke.

Go fuck yourselves, Stalin apologists. Get past the propaganda and see the truth.

[DrWeird]

33. They're building the statue for his actions in WWII.

Not his liquidations.

Which seems to me to be kind of like putting George Washington on the dollar bill for his actions during the revolutionary war, not his slave owning.

[American Tragedy]

35. In that case I would build the monument to the courageous Soviet soldiers.

not to him.

Stalin hid in his room and vainly ignored desperate warnings from the Allies and from fellow Russians that the Germans were mobilizing and invading his country, at a terrible price. His actions throughout the war were successful simply because he cared so little for the lives of his troops and was willing to absorb overwhelming casualties, and more importantly they were valiant enough to sacrifice themselves.

Of course, he did have the opportunistic presence of mind to exploit the war situation, and invade and conquer Poland and other neighboring countries that weren't able to defend themselves.

I understand your reasoning, but I can't agree in this particular case. I'm sorry, but I've just never been able to give him much credit as a warrior either, not to speak of everything else about him.

[Charon]

41. Monument to the courageous Soviet soldiers

IMO Stalins success was due to his willingness to allow Stavka to conduct the war. He made a muddled attempt early in the war involve himself in operational matters and badly mismanged the operation. After that he (unlike Hitler) allowed his military commanders to plan and execute operations (subject to his approval and comment). Stalin was not the only Soviet official to care little about the lives of their troops. Zhukov, Koniev, Malinovski, Chuikov, all were quite willing to suffer massive casualty rates, if it meant success.

[Aristus]

38. Well, we've got people over here worshipping at the blood-soaked

altar of Joe McCarthy. Why should we be surprised if that kind of tyrant-idolizing is contagious?