Rumsfeld scraps Munich visit over 'war crimes' probe

[Kellanved]

MUNICH - United States Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has cancelled a planned visit to Munich after a US human rights organisation asked German authorities to prosecute him for war crimes.

Rumsfeld has informed the German government via the US embassy he will not take part at the Munich Security Conference in February, conference head Horst Teltschik said.
The New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights filed a complaint in December with the Federal German Prosecutor's Office against Rumsfeld accusing him of war crimes and torture in connection with detainee abuses at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

Rumsfeld had made it known immediately after the complaint was filed that he would not attend the Munich conference unless Germany quashed the legal action.

The organisation alleges violations of German legislation which outlaws war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide independent of the place of crime or origin of the accused.
...
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=26&story_id=16014&name=Rumsfeld+scraps+Munich+visitover+%27war+crimes%27+probe

[RobertDevereaux]

1. A chicken finally comes home to roost!

[lebkuchen]

2. That'll save me a trip to Munich

I protested Rummy there three years ago w/protesters from all over Europe.

[tabasco]

11. Thank you !

Good for Germany that this dirty rotten scum stays off your soil.

I will not be satisfied until he is behind bars.

[lebkuchen]

15. Bush is supposed to come in Feb. We're waiting for a location

before we buy our train tickets. He's trying for an unassuming city, some place in Germany that doesn't hate his guts. Won't be easy.

[Kellanved]

16. Mainz

;-)

[lebkuchen]

18. For certain?

What's the date?

[Kellanved]

21. February the 23rd

Walking in daddy's footsteps again.


http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,335634,00.html
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=15864&name=Schroeder+rules+out+troopsin+Iraq+before+Bush+visit+
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=392302
...

[lebkuchen]

26. Got it marked on the calendar--thanks

Although it's in the middle of the week, I'm assuming protests are planned. The Defense Ministers meeting is usually on a Sat. and the world's anti-war march pre-shock and awe was on Sat. as well.

[neweurope]

49. Hi Lebkuchen, we can meet there

:hi:


-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[lebkuchen]

51. I may be able to make Brussels as well

Protests there, too?

[neweurope]

69. Yes - and I'd like to go, too.

I just hate going alone... well. I'm going to google for time and place and write you a PM, ok?


-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[lebkuchen]

65. PS

Mainz isn't accustomed to US presidents visiting, nor protests. We're starting to think about our "attention-getting" sign now.

[neweurope]

70. *g* I wish you lots of creativity!

-----------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Occulus]

3. Why doesn't Germany just LIE ABOUT IT

and haul him off for some surprise questioning?

[Kellanved]

64. because Germany has little to do with it.

All that separation of powers and everything.
Anyway, it is just a complaint fled with a prosecutor, not an actual probe.

Which makes one wonder: why is he afraid?

[neweurope]

71. I don't think he's afraid; they probably share our view that

absolutely nothing will come of it. I think it's just arrogantly pressuring my country and trying to show all other countries that American criminals under no circumstances fall under the jurisdiction of anybody else.

-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Benhurst]

4. Poor Donald. It's so hard to be a war criminal. NT

[Just Me]

34. Someday, Nazi hunters will be replaced by Neocon hunters.

Of course, that won't happen until after the neocons incite the upcoming world war.

[Zhade]

66. I would relish such a career opportunity.

NT!

[Wickerman]

5. Ha- ha

[tanyev]

What's the matter, Don?

Can't stand the thought of those silver handcuffs around your wrists?

[MadHound]

13. Its not the cuffs on his wrists that he can't stand.

Its the realization that his safe word won't remove them.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

55. 'Freedom' is not a safe word. Neither is 'ouch.'...n/t

[dannynyc]

87. And the knowledge of torture he'll likely to get . . .

in prison - the same torture he OK'd in Iraq.

[JoMama49]

6. We've got to get the WORLD to help us bring these war

criminals to justice!

[notadmblnd]

7. hahahah

soon he wont be able to leave the country for fear of being arrested. I'm hoping another country he is scheduled to visit can keep their warents under wraps until he arrives.

[tuvor]

8. Gee, you think the MSM will pick up on this?

No, I guess it's best to keep America in the dark.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

9. This might be a key... let's get them all indicited or under

investigation all over the world.... isolate the bastards even more than they have done already.

[demgurl]

53. As far as getting the world after these criminals.....

I started writing foreign newspapers today. I am not sure it will be printed but I apologize for our President, I say that we are just as much prisoners as much as the folks in Iraq, and I tell them that the country of "FREEDOM" includes having to sign loyalty oaths to go to a presidential gathering or possibly being arrested if you get in. I am begging for people not to hold his actions against us and tell them we do not want him either.

Will it do any good? I think it would make the news big time if letter writing campaigns hit the editorials of a bunch of foreign papers. Think of the stories! And perhaps someone will get the guts to stop him if they realize the leader does NOT have a mandate.

[neweurope]

72. One such letter might not get printed. If MANY such letters arrive -

individually written - they won't be able to ignore it and write a story about it. I think it is a very good idea. And not just one letter - keep it up and write every couple of weeks.


--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[gademocrat7]

63. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope condi and rove can be in the lineup as well.

[signmike]

10. Send him to Auschwitz. 'To der showers, Donny'

:evilgrin:

[StaggerLee]

12. Reconsider Rummy

C'mon, do it! Do it!

As Sniffa once told me: "all the cool kids are doing it!"

What's a mattah? Chicken(hawk)? :evilgrin:

[jmcgowanjm]

14. Like Dr K, Rummy now has to consult lawyers about his legalstanding

in countries that he wants to visit.

The noose tightens, the victim squirms, then lashing
out trying to distract, left gnawing at
the loose ends of his failed plots,
until justice, ofttimes put off but never denied,
brings closure.

[orthogonal]

17. You don't go the the Old Europe you wan

You don't go the the Old Europe you want, you go to the Old Europe you have.

[Stockholm]

19. Kick!

[Spazito]

20. LOL! I love it!

I hope it expands to all the criminal bush cabal so they cannot go beyond the borders of the US and, eventually, not beyond the cells in the Hague.

[mutus_frutex]

22. It is ironic..

That an american group has to resort to european law to prosecute an american... :-)

[Kellanved]

24. Oh he won't be prosecuted

The probability of that happening is about zero. It just is funny to see how afraid he seems to be.

[mutus_frutex]

37. I know!

And I think it goes even beyond fear. I think it is also arrogance: How dare they challenge him!! :-)

[susu369]

28. It's also ironic

that his ancestors are from Germany...I can just imagine if he ventured there that his ancestor's "roots" would rise from the ground and capture him like something out of a Sci-Fi movie.

Weird, I know. :evilgrin:

[mutus_frutex]

39. I remember seeing something about his ancestors town here

Some time ago. I think they were rejecting him or something of the sort..

[susu369]

58. Your memory serves you well

Edited to correct link -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/09/wrums09.xml/

"We think it is dreadful that Donald Rumsfeld is out there pushing for a war against Iraq," Karin Cecere (nee Rumsfeld), 59, said from her two-up, two-down home last week. "We are embarrassed to be related to him," she told The Telegraph.

Margarete Rumsfeld, her 85-year-old mother, was equally dismissive: "We don't have much to do with him anymore. Nowadays he's just the American defence secretary to us, but for God's sake, he'd better not start a war," she added.

They used to feel differently. Twenty-five years ago, the German Rumsfelds were thrilled to welcome Mr Rumsfeld - then the United States ambassador to Nato stationed in Brussels - into their extended family."

[reprobate]

23. And so it begins. Blowback is a bitch!

One day soon none of the bastards in this regime will be able to leave the country for fear of prosecution. Can't think of a bunch of criminals who deserve it more. Starting with Lil Boots, the Cowardly Commander In Thief.

[UL_Approved]

25. He actually turned back over that?

Do my ears deceive me? Is this real news?

If it is, what does this say about Rumsfeld?

[forgethell]

40. Says he's too smart to

give the Germans a chance to humiliate him.

[Kellanved]

41. By humiliating himself?

Considering that there is no actual probe, but just a request to start one, it seems to me that this behavior is more humiliating than anything that could happen in Munich -questions by the press are about the worst thing that could happen to him in Germany.

[forgethell]

45. I guess we just

disagree. I see nothing humiliating about refusing to go to a country if you are going to face criminal charges there.

Although you are right, nothing would actually happen to him there. Germany doesn't want the Airborn & Marines landing in Berlin. Cowardly little chickenshits. But I suspect the adminsitration doesn't want to give them any encouragement, or a stage to play out their little theater.

[AndyTiedye]

27. Your Cell Awaits You In the Hague, Mr. Rumsfeld

[Ganja Ninja]

29. Kinda puts a crimp in your ability to function as Secretary of

Defense when you can't travel to one of our NATO allies for fear of being arrested for war crimes. Sounds like he needs to be replaced ASAP.

[Old Mouse]

43. LOL!!!

Good insight!

[porkrind]

77. LOL! Nice one.

Dr. Strangelove can't go back to the Fatherland.

[malaise]

30. They will all soon

have to stay home as war crimes charges are filed all over the planet. So who in the US is brave enough to file charges?

[Fleshdancer]

31. I smell a letter writing campaign brewing.....

Dear Rumsfeld,

Please don't cancel your trip to Munich. You wouldn't have to go to the conference if you don't want to, but take some personal "Don" time. After all the wars you've botched, don't you deserve a nice vacation? You could tour the sites or take the Mrs out to a nice dinner. Now doesn't that sound lovely?

Sincerely,
America

PS - enclosed is a one way ticket, first class, just for you.

[Zhade]

67. Ironically, the one-way ticket would get him searched at the airport!

NT!

[0007]

32. ....and now a word from Condoleezza Rice about Donald Rumsfeld

and his Munich Security Conference in February.

[leesa]

33. This is EXTREMELY good news. This means they can be arrested if they

venture outside. I hope to live to see these bastards tried and punished to the fullest extent of the law for treason and war crimes.

[JDPriestly]

35. He should be scared.

He is responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people. I wish I could believe this would cause him to stop and think even if he can't feel anything, but I doubt it.

[Zhade]

68. It won't. He's quite used to causing the deaths of innocent people.

I do hope the world follows this trend, for all the administration.

[leesa]

36. Kick. This is important.

[sabra]

38. Wow this is amazing! n/t

[fooj]

42. What a bunch of cowards!

Rummy is such a creepy dude...

[No Exit]

44. What an inspiration to our troops this brave man is.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

How long before Bush has to start cancelling foreign trips?

("We're sorry, but the President is under self-imposed house arrest.")

[greyXstar]

46. Wow that's awesome!

Theres no warrant for his arrest and he's this scared?? Hmm, sounds like ye olde guilty conscience to me. Let's hope this is the beginning of a very long and very worldwide trend.
:evilgrin:

[gottaB]

47. Yet another reason to have him replaced

Ineffectual. A Secretary of Defense that's afraid to travel to Germany?
What a joke.

[Spinzonner]

48. How does Diplomatic Immunity factor into these things

and to whom in the Gov't does it apply ?

[d.l.Green]

60. I would think that it wouldn't apply, otherwise why do you think he's

chickened out of the risk? I'm sure if this does hit the MSM we'll hear some other lame excuse, but from the article it sure appears like a fear factor- ha, the irony of it all!

[Kellanved]

62. Rummy has Immunity.

And there is no warrant for him in Germany anyway.. In fact the probe is about to get buried - his reaction sure is interesting.

[melissinha]

50. The world will get us our revenge

Lets face it, our MSM doesn't really want to report the administration ... the administration has control of it.... but guess what?

I have full faith that foreign press and the international community will expose this administration for what it is... cause they can't control them.. HA HA HA you cock-sucking hypocrits!

That'll teach you to be unilateralist!

[Vidar]

52. Welcome to the German no-fly zone, mr. secretary.

[sweetheart]

54. charged with german war crimes 2 lifetimes in a row!!!

Rumsfeld is really batting 1000. :-) Neocons make a good soup if you
boil them for 3 hours first!

[raysr]

56. That's great

Hope he ends up like Kissenger!

[daleo]

57. A Rumsfeldian snit?

Or is he really worried about being arrested?

[ignatius 2]

59. Man,I would pay to see that..Rummy in cuffs. Would he talk and

implicate the rest of the lying murderers? Damn. I wish he hadn't known about this.

[bvar22]

61. Trust the Germans to know a WAR CRIMINAL when they see one.

[NYC]

73. Success.

This is helpful. More of this would be even more helpful. I would like to see their worlds become smaller and smaller.

[Hardrada]

74. If they were indicted, all of this criminal cabal, and convicted

and locked away as war criminals, I want to personally throw the key away and then stand with the guards in front of the prison door (I actually visualize them in some kind of subterranean dungeon) for the rest of my life to make sure they never never never never never never ever get out again!!

[Pam-Moby]

75. My feeling on this is

If this Munich Security Conference in February is part of Rumsfeld's job. Then he should have to go and do it or he is not living up to his job requirements. If he does not go and do his job, then why pay for a man for a job he will not do!

If I did not fill my job requirement I would be fired!

Look at our soldiers. They are scared and they still have to go to Iraq. Rumsfeld is no better. He must go!

[Bo]

76. Mr. Nazi scraps visits?

WHAT A SHAME

[jmcon007]

78. Rummy in cuffs: "I'VE GOT MY RIGHTS!!"

They shouldn't threaten to arrest him. They should just let Rumsfeld know that they would like to ask him a few questions....with underwear over his head and electrodes clamped to his nuts.

[truthpusher]

79. beautiful n/t

[llmart]

80. This makes me proud.......

to be of German ancestry!

Now if only we could get a mass uproar in the USofA against these bastards.

[flamingpie2500]

81. Quash the legal action? How many legal actions have been quashed

in this country? Germany can smell the arrogance from here. I hope they file the same thing for Bush. It's about time other countries put their foot down to do something about our regime problems.

[Chicago Democrat]

82. BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Tee hee!

[Up2Late]

83. AWESOME! Love it! Ever wonder why Cheney...

...only when to Switzerland and the Vatican (Jan. 30, 2004) when he went to Europe last year? :smoke:

Two places in Europe known for NOT turning over International "War Criminals":think:

Check these links out:

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1625271>

<http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm>

[Arkana]

84. Run, Rummy, run!

Fucking wuss. If he wasn't afraid of being taken to task, he wouldn't have canceled his trip.

[rodeodance]

85. wonder how a hood would look on Rummy?

[paineinthearse]

86. Articles of impeachment against *, Rumsfeld and their cronies

I am glad to see that one sovereign nation respects international law and there is one less place in the world can Rumsfeld be in. This suit is an outcome of the efforts of Ramsey Clark. His organization, www.impeachbush.org, has drafted articles of impeachment.

Articles of Impeachment of President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney,Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General John David Ashcroft

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. - - ARTICLE II, SECTION 4 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General John David Ashcroft have committed violations and subversions of the Constitution of the United States of America in an attempt to carry out with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes and deprivations of the civil rights of the people of the United States and other nations, by assuming powers of an imperial
executive unaccountable to law and usurping powers of the Congress, the Judiciary and those reserved to the people of the United States, by the following acts:

1) Seizing power to wage wars of aggression in defiance of the U.S. Constitution, the U.N. Charter and the rule of law; carrying out a massive assault on and occupation of Iraq, a country that was not threatening the United States, resulting in the death and maiming of tens of thousands of Iraqis, and hundreds of U.S. G.I.s.

2) Lying to the people of the U.S., to Congress, and to the U.N., providing false and deceptive rationales for war.

3) Authorizing, ordering and condoning direct attacks on civilians, civilian facilities and locations where civilian casualties were unavoidable.

4) Threatening the independence and sovereignty of Iraq by belligerently changing its government by force and assaulting Iraq in a war of aggression.

4) Authorizing, ordering and condoning assassinations, summary executions, kidnappings, secret and other illegal detentions of individuals, torture and physical and psychological coercion of
prisoners to obtain false statements concerning acts and intentions of governments and individuals and violating within the United States, and by authorizing U.S. forces and agents elsewhere, the rights of individuals under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

5) Making, ordering and condoning false statements and propaganda about the conduct of foreign governments and individuals and acts by U.S. government personnel; manipulating the media and foreign governments with false information; concealing information vital to public discussion and informed judgment concerning acts, intentions and possession, or efforts to obtain weapons of mass destruction in order to falsely create a climate of fear and destroy opposition to
U.S. wars of aggression and first strike attacks.

6) Violations and subversions of the Charter of the United Nations and international law, both a part of the "Supreme Law of the land" under Article VI, paragraph 2, of the Constitution, in an attempt to commit with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes in wars and threats of aggression against Afghanistan, Iraq and others and usurping powers of the United Nations and the peoples of its nations by bribery, coercion and other corrupt acts and by rejecting treaties, committing treaty violations, and frustrating compliance with treaties in order to destroy any means by which international law and institutions can prevent, affect, or adjudicate the exercise of U.S. military and economic power against the international community.

7) Acting to strip United States citizens of their constitutional and human rights, ordering indefinite detention of citizens, without access to counsel, without charge, and without opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention, based solely on the discretionary designation by the Executive of a citizen as an "enemy combatant."

8) Ordering indefinite detention of non-citizens in the United States and elsewhere, and without charge, at the discretionary designation of the Attorney General or the Secretary of Defense.

9) Ordering and authorizing the Attorney General to override judicial orders of release of detainees under INS jurisdiction, even where the judicial officer after full hearing determines a detainee is wrongfully held by the government.

10) Authorizing secret military tribunals and summary execution of persons who are not citizens who are designated solely at the discretion of the Executive who acts as indicting official,
prosecutor and as the only avenue of appellate relief.

11) Refusing to provide public disclosure of the identities and locations of persons who have been arrested, detained and imprisoned by the U.S. government in the United States, including in response to Congressional inquiry.

12) Use of secret arrests of persons within the United States and elsewhere and denial of the right to public trials.

13) Authorizing the monitoring of confidential attorney-client privileged communications by the government, even in the absence of a court order and even where an incarcerated person has not
been charged with a crime.

14) Ordering and authorizing the seizure of assets of persons in the United States, prior to hearing or trial, for lawful or innocent association with any entity that at the discretionary designation of the Executive has been deemed "terrorist."

15) Institutionalization of racial and religious profiling and authorization of domestic spying by federal law enforcement on persons based on their engagement in noncriminal religious and
political activity.

16) Refusal to provide information and records necessary and appropriate for the constitutional right of legislative oversight of executive functions.

17) Rejecting treaties protective of peace and human rights and abrogation of the obligations of the United States under, and withdrawal from, international treaties and obligations without
consent of the legislative branch, and including termination of the ABM treaty between the United States and Russia, and rescission of the authorizing signature from the Treaty of Rome which served as the basis for the International Criminal Court.

[imenja]

88. Send him to Abu Ghraib

That's where he belongs.

[Liberty Belle]

89. Kick!

Are there charges against Gonzalez, too? Might make a nice addition to testimony at his confirmation hearing. E-mail this to the Senators, please!

[lebkuchen]

90. Here's how Rummy WAS planning to participate in the conference

before he was forced to cancel. Wow. It was the 40th conference too--nice round number.

No one will miss him.

http://munich.usconsulate.gov/munich/security_conference.html

Programs and Events
40th Munich Security Conference
February 6-8, 2004
Statements and Comments by U.S. Officials

• Secretary Rumsfeld Remarks at the Munich Conference on Security Policy (February 7, 2004)
• Secretary Rumsfeld Q&A session at the Munich Conference on Security Policy (February 7, 2004)
• Secretary Rumsfeld Press Conference NATO Defense Ministerial (February 6, 2004)
• Secretary Rumsfeld Roundtable with European Journalists (February 6, 2004)

[beam me up scottie]

91. Since * is so hell-bent on having his concubine condi as

s of s, any chance she will be prosecuted as well? Not that she would ever be convicted, but I sure would like all the * supporters to see just how much damage this admin has done to the us.

[jazzjunkysue]

92. How embarrassing? The superpower def sec can't come out and play?

:nopity: Gonna be some extra pastries at the bavarian desert table, methinks. It's dangerous in germany, anyway. They've got pretzles, right? God bless Germany. Ich liebe dich!

[proudbluestater]

93. Please sign the letter to the German prosecutor @CCR site!

Call on the German Federal Prosecutor to Investigate Rumsfeld
The Center for Constitutional Rights and four Iraqis who were tortured in U.S. custody filed a complaint on November 30 with the German Federal Prosecutor's Office against high ranking United States civilian and military commanders over the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison and elsewhere in Iraq.

We are asking the German prosecutor to launch an investigation because the U.S. government is unwilling to open an independent investigation into the responsibility of these officials for war crimes and the U.S. has refused to join the International Criminal Court. CCR and the Iraqi victims brought this complaint to Germany as a court of last resort. Several of the defendants are stationed in Germany.

The Pentagon and the U.S. government are taking this suit very seriously. According to the Deutsche Press Agency, Donald Rumsfeld has warned Germany that he will not attend an upcoming security conference in Munich if there is any indication of an investigation going forward, and Chief Pentagon Spokesman Larry Di Rita, calling the complaint "frivolous," said that he raised the case with the State Department: "State is engaged in this. Obviously, it's something that we're focused on and very concerned with" Please encourage the German prosecutor not to bow to U.S. pressure.

Defendants in the suit include Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, former CIA Director George Tenet, Lt. General Ricardo S. Sanchez, Major-General Walter Wojdakowski, Brig.-General Janis Karpinski, Lt.-Colonel Jerry L. Phillabaum, Colonel Thomas M. Pappas, Lt.-Colonel Stephen L. Jordan, Major-General Geoffrey Miller, and Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone.

German law allows German courts to prosecute for killing, torture, cruel and inhumane treatment, forcible transfers and sexual coercion such as occurred at Abu Ghraib. The world has seen the photographs and read the leaked "torture memos". We are doing what is necessary when other systems of justice have failed and seeking to hold officials up the chain of command responsible for the shameful abuses that occurred.

Please join our effort! The letter appears below, first in German and then in English. The German Prosecutor has discretion to decide whether to initiate an investigation. It is critical that he hear from you so he knows that people around the world support this effort.

http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/ccr/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=325