N.J. Pastor Faces Charges For Racial Slurs

[wicket]

Let me get this straight, an 82 year old man doesn't know that the word n-gger is offensive?? Give me a break!!!! What this man did is DISGUSTING! :grr: :grr: :grr:

http://www.nbc10.com/news/4110922/detail.html

An 82-year-old white man who is a pastor left messages at three Trenton area black churches calling Martin Luther King Day an "N" holiday.

The Rev. Paul Shafran asked for forgiveness at a news conference held by black ministers to denounce the messages Wednesday.

The pastor emeritus of Saint Vladimir Orthodox Church said he acted out of foolishness and without malice. Shafran could not explain why he made the calls on Monday.

Shafran told the ministers he did not realize the "N" word was offensive.

More than a dozen black ministers prayed with Shafran and asked God to bless him.

Police have charged the retired minister with harassment and bias intimidation.

[sui generis]

1. well, what the hell do the police have to do with this?

I understand the involvement of them initially, but there is no case that the state was harrassed or intimidated. The defendant is inappropriate. If one of the churches files suit, THAT would be appropriate, but they're not.

Yes he's stupid, but the police reaction is even more stupid. Law gone wrong.

[atreides1]

3. How is the Law Written

First of all it's a little hard to believe that an 82 year old man didn't realize the the "N" word was offensive, as for the involvement of the police, that is totally dependent on how the law was written.

In some places, even if the victim of a crime doesn't want to file charges, the state has the authority to do it.

[sui generis]

17. that's overstepping on the part of the law

it becomes "state vs." or "city of vs.", and they have to show that someone was harmed or cause for damages. I understand if there is a law that says Thou Shalt Not Use the N Word and Other Mean Words in Public, like, Thou Shalt Not Let Thy Cat Shit On Thy Neighbors Porch, but if there really isn't a very clear "law" like that, then the state or municipality is just intervening for no other reason than to place a fine.

It's a poor exercise of discretion. He's a racist and a product of his times and locale and probably half senile to boot. It's a poor use of the government's legal resources.

[jayfish]

6. I Agree.

That being said, I so happy that his brethren prayed for the holy, holy racist.

[SemperEadem]

19. gee... could it be because he used a PHONE

and left messages? He didn't nail it to the doors of the churches, so one must assume that he used a phone, and that is considered to be harassment and intimidation. Even the phone company, if notified, gets involved and that's where the the police step in.

I'm trying to follow your logic--are you saying that it's ok to use the phone to leave racial slurs, that no one should be pissed off about it?

[Tomee450]

21. Exactly

Maybe using the phone to send such messages is a form of intimidation and illegal. It seems race relations are getting worse in this country. I wonder if people feel that since the Republicans are now in charge it OK to show such bigotry.

[nibbana]

33. So, your priority is that the "police " charged the man?

Overstepped their authority?....Harrassment is a crime...Why would this man of god (?) call black churchs to complain about the Martin Luther King Day?

Jesus fuckin christ and we wonder why Democrats lost the election!!!

[Mizmoon]

2. Maybe he's senile

things seems off in this story.

[jdj]

11. Probably just drunk.

That communion wine is strong nowadays, since W. became the pretzeldent.

[Momgonepostal]

18. I wondered if he had Alzheimers or something

that certainly is out of the norm behavior.

[Minstrel Boy]

4. The real story here is the graciousness of the black ministers

to pray with him.

Their actions suggest to me that Shafran is in frail mental health, perhaps senile, and may truly not have a clue why he made the calls.

[bmbmd]

10. You are correct.

Grace given is grace received.

[UL_Approved]

5. This is VERY strange

Am I the only one who wants to know HOW they knew it was him? And why would he make calls to places that could identify him. Overall, this is an unusual piece...:tinfoilhat:

[Southpaw Bookworm]

8. Caller ID

And maybe he didn't realize that they might have it -- a friend's library used theirs to ID a guy who was calling up asking about videos while masturbating. One instance of "one moment Mr. _____ while I check the catalog" and he hasn't called back since.

[Judi Lynn]

7. He looks old, and we know he's irresponsible.

Just can't understand him. Here's his photo.



http://home.earthlink.net/~martykraus/About.htm

I agree it was kind of the ministers to meet him personally, and with compassion. He's not all that socially mature, is he?

[Redstone]

9. He WHAT?

"Shafran told the ministers he did not realize the "N" word was offensive."

It must be Alzheimer's. There is absolutely no other explanation.

Unless of course, he's lying. Nah, a minister wouldn't do that, would he?

Redstone

[jdj]

12. no way.

my grandma had alzheimers, she wouldn't have been able to pick the phone number of one church out of the phone book and dial it correctly, much less three.

[Redstone]

35. Well, that eliminates the Alzheimer's theory,

doesn't it? (Thanks for the personal perspective, and sorry about your Granny, sincerely.)

Leaving only my second conjecture.

Redstone

[LiberalFighter]

37. Especially to all black churches...

or churches where the ministers were African American

[jswordy]

13. Yankees take note: It happened up North!

Proof positive that not all things racially insensitive happen in the South, that racism is alive and well among some, North or South.

An old saying about racism I was told by a man who is no longer with us:

"Northeners love the race but hate the man; Southerners love the man but hate the race."

[QC]

14. That's why this story is so obviously a vicious lie!!!

We all know that things like this only happen in places like Mississippi and South Carolina. I think somebody just made all this up!

[jswordy]

15. Heheheheh! Good one! ROFLMAO. Thanks! n/t

[DrWeird]

16. Has the North elected him to the Senate yet?

nt

[nibbana]

34. The civil war is over...The United States won..

This incident is not the first proof positive of pervasive racism in "America". Racism and segregationism was not and has never been just a "southern" issue.
Integration, civil rights and the right to vote was hard fought in all cities in the United States. Noth, South, East and West...

[chascarrillo]

36. Look away! Look away!

Look away from Dixie! Naw, ain't none of them racists down there. Sheeeit...

[wicket]

20. kick

:kick:

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. He did this because the atmosphere is ripe for it. They have

victory in their grasp, and they think it means we won't fight back when they take the spoils.

[sonicx]

23. this probably tops the "Martin Luther Coon" story...

[Reverend_Smitty]

24. My dad talked to that pastor the other day

He works for a Trenton newspaper and he was assigned to get the guy's picture. When he went to the pastor's house, my dad sensed that the guy was out of it. Probably going senile, but still no excuse. I applaud the black ministers for their forgiveness and compassion, because if someone called my house and said hateful things like that, I'd be pretty steamed!

[daleo]

40. Have you ever watched anyone go senile?

I mean really demented? An advanced case actually is a pretty good excuse for inappropriate behavior.

I applaud the ministers as well, for rising above understandable anger at the event. But, given their role as ministers, who in the course of their work probably often minister to the aged, I am sure they have witnessed the effects of dementia many times and understand its peculiar features.

[Heddi]

25. NJ is below the Mason-Dixon Line right?

I ask because I've read on DU numerous times that the South is the only place that racial hatred occurs. No one above the Mason-Dixon, or west of the Mississippi has ever uttered an offensive word. Ever.

It must be New Jersey, SouthCarolina they're talking about, right?

I mean, it HAS to be...just for the sake of all the South-Bashers....

Oh although I'm sure someone will imply that this man was either originally from the south, had parents from the south, lived in the south, travelled to the south, or heard someone talk about the SOuth, and that's where he got the Southern-Only idea to use the "N" word.

Right? RIGHT?

[sonicx]

26. who says the south is the only place?

who?

[QC]

30. Are you new here? n/t

[sonicx]

39. nope

again...who says racists are only in the south?

[LostinVA]

38. Actually, Yes -- Parts of it are

I grew up in Southern NJ, and where I lived was under the Mason-Dixon Line. The county I grew up in had a rather large contingent of soldiers fight in the Civil War, and you'll see more Confederate flags flying there than I ever see in the part of Virginia I live in now (albeit, I live in a VERY liberal town).

It's like a poster up thread said -- it's not that there aren't racists up North, it's just that it's not quite as socially "accepted," nor are as many Repub senators elected. NJ is a very Catholic state, and quite conservative in many ways, but just enacted a domestic partner law, and has great labor laws.

[wicket]

27. kick

:kick:

[salin]

28. "Without malice?"

er... placing the phone calls to Black Churches..... references to MLKjr holiday... how could this intentional offensive action be "without malice?"

[RetroLounge]

29. without malice? without malice? without malice?

I'm trying to figure that one out...

RL

[Solly Mack]

31. Oh, I wouldn't have prayed with him

I'm not that nice.

[daleo]

32. I have read that some forms of dementia can have this effect

Basically, the "censorship" areas of the brain are not reliably operative any longer. Thus, the patient is prone to behavior that is culturally inappropriate. How this manifests varies - it can be through sexual, racial, or other language or behavior. The perverse effect on racial matters can be that liberals who were raised in atmospheres where racism was pervasive, and overcame these attitudes, can appear racist when this dementia occurs, as they are no longer able to resist early life patterning. That may be the case here.

This is also seen sometimes when sweet little old ladies begin making sexually inappropriate statements in advanced stages of dementia. People sometimes have the impulse to take their clothes off as well, although that might also be a response to overheating.

You have to be careful how you judge these matters once people are have reached advanced ages, and 82 certainly qualifies.