Pet store animals cooked in school Student prepares Guinea pig, rabbit

[seriousstan]

Thompson Township - A Guinea pig and rabbit purchased from a Geauga County pet store ended up on plates at Ledgemont High School.

A 16-year-old student skinned and cooked the animals during a living skills class on Wednesday, prompting student and parent complaints to the Thompson Township Police Department and Geauga Humane Society. Officials at both agencies said they are investigating.

---cut---

The student - whose name was not released - described what he did in terms of harvesting meat to fix a dish for classmates, Gage said.

The principal described the boy as an active hunter. The Ledgemont district covers the rural communities of Montville and Thompson townships, where killing - and then eating - wild game is fairly common.

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/isedu/110631570312460.xml?isedu

[soleft]

1. Is Bill Frist looking for an intern?

[Coastie for Truth]

13. You beat me to it

Did you know that MISTER Frist's family business closed our only emergency room in San Jose CA.

[papau]

2. Good for him - the lad has talent - just don't forget the garlic!

indeed that should be a required lesson in a living skills class.

[Coastie for Truth]

22. Next we will

have "Junior ROTC" and the "NRA" to teach "Living Skills" (I would prefer the American Red Cross "Living On The <Earthquake Faultline/Blizzard Belt/Hurricane Zone/Tornado Alley> Series myself - or maybe just a non-homophobic Boy Scouts)

[papau]

36. American Red Cross courses would be great - if they had them

I'd skip junior ROTC!

AND WITH GIRL SCOUTS NOW TAKING BOYS WHO NEEDS THE BOY SCOUTS!

sorry about the caps - caps key gets turned on by accident!

:-)

[Johnny Noshoes]

136. I learned a really useful skill

in Junior ROTC - how to disassemble, clean, and reassemble an M1 rifle /sarcasm. I was Junior ROTC in the late 60's early 70's at Scalia's old HS in Greenwich Village NY. Sometimes you grow older and wiser and go left rather than right. :)



"When you trade your values for the hope of winning, you end up losing and having no values....so you keep losing." Howard Dean 2004

[IA_Seth]

81. Is there something wrong with harvesting your own food?

Granted, these were store-bought animals, but is there something wrong in a life skills class to have a student demonstrate life skills?

[leftchick]

96. how the fuck did he kill them?

Did he slit their throats? I see a future serial killer here disguising his warped behavior in "life skills class"!

[IA_Seth]

97. What would be the right way to do it?

Animals that are to be eaten have to be killed.

If the kid tortured the animal or caused it unnecessary pain then I would agree with you, but by your very question you admit to not knowing. How can you judge him as a future killer if you don't know if he did anything wrong?

[DrWeird]

98. How do you kill your animals?

Baring expensive mechanical or electronic means, is there a better way to do it?

[leftchick]

99. I pet my animals

:eyes:

[DrWeird]

107. How do you kill your animals' food?

I'm assuming they eat meat products.

[leftchick]

112. vegan food

at your natural grocery store.

:)

[don954]

114. if you have a cat, their food has to have a certain protein in it,

taurine I believe, or they will have bad, bad problems. And the only source comes from meat.

[leftchick]

116. I have an almost 18 yeard old cat

who is doing just fine. She is an indoor cat as well so she never eats wild things. I can't imagine why you people believe this shit!

[seriousstan]

120. A vegan cat? lol Now THAT is animal abuse.

Your cat doesn't eat vegan because it wants to, it eats vegan because that is what you feed it. Your cat would be more than happy to throw out the sprouts and chow down mice.

[leftchick]

126. obviously...

you have no clue... :eyes:

[seriousstan]

130. Let me cage you and the cat together for a week and feed neither of you

The cat would have your eyes for dinner. It is the nature of the beast. The only reason it doesn't do it now is size.

[leftchick]

132. lol...

Right. that is why she and her three (also vegan) kitty friends have killed me. you folks are so weird.

[DoNotRefill]

168. Not to be gross here...

but when people are found dead in their houses after being there a while, their pets have often eaten part of the corpse. As soon as you stop moving, you're no longer "momma", and are suddenly "dinner."

If God hadn't intended animals to eat animals, s/he wouldn't have made them out of MEAT.

:crazy:

[catgirl]

186. People stranded without food eat each other too

when they have no other food. They eat the dead. What's your point?

[DoNotRefill]

219. I've seen cases....

where the animals still had kibble in the bowl.

The point is that some animals eat meat. this makes sense, since they are naturally carnivores. Starve them long enough and they'll eat kibble. Give them a choice of kibble or meat, they will choose meat. Even if that meat is "momma".

[NuttyFluffers]

146. it is technically. the cat will eventually die horribly from this.

went to a veterinary university. had plenty of veterinary majors as friends and dormmates. talked casually to a few veterinarian professors, as my friends were discussing classwork with them (naturally most of the conversation was above my head). all veterinary journal data i've been shown shows that feeding a vegan diet to your cat will drastically shorten its life. it causes debilitating chronic disorders and will kill the cat in the end.

either the cat here is supplementing by catching meat elsewhere (or the vegan food has ground up insects and mealworms in the food :shrug:) or this program was only recently instituded on the poor animal.

dogs, you can actually feed a vegan diet, you can supplant with plenty of protein dense plants (beans, lentils, etc). but cats are a complete other story. biologically they *cannot* survive a vegan diet.

naturally i'll hear otherwise here, i'm sure... :eyes:

[mordarlar]

166. If i am not mistaken they do put protien by products in the cat food

[NuttyFluffers]

181. hmm, i must study this product...

any particular vegan cat food brand names i should check out? fascinating... but wouldn't protein by-products be another fancy term for, meat?
:shrug:
can't remember a time when someone processed out the 'protein by-products' out of legumes, let alone why. if the product does contain 'protein by products' (aka. meat) wouldn't that defeat the purpose of vegan cat food?

i have many questions about this product. seems... fascinating.

edit: i use meat in the generic term of animal tissues, by the way, not specifically the striated muscle tissues kind, in case there was confusion.

[mordarlar]

182. I have no specific names but if you want no meat...

you should look into it. But i will say also look up pet needs. Cats really do need protein. They need very specific things in their diets. They can have crystals in their urine which cause them to bleed internally in a difficult to detect way if they have too high a mineral count in their diet. It can be very painful and people often have no idea their cats have it. This is a big problem for cats with dry food. They are carnivores and they need a certain balance of certain things. I realize love for animals may be behind the decision but make sure the choice is in fact a loving one. ; )

[catgirl]

188. Cats need wet food of some kind

Cats who only eat dry food do have problems because they
would naturally need moist food for the digestive system. Male
cats in particular are prone to crystals/stones.

[mordarlar]

183. This vegetarian website has info on cat diets.

>>>Cats - a vegetarian diet?

Although it is possible to keep dogs on a vegetarian diet satisfactorily, cats are more specialised and you are advised to consider carefully before changing your cat to a vegetarian diet.

Cats are natural carnivores and are unlikely to willingly forego meat from their diet. Cats fed on vegetarian diets are likely to look elsewhere for their preferred meat diet, and many cats will hunt and kill small rodents and birds.

Cats require certain nutrients from meat that cannot be obtained in sufficient amounts from plant foods. These include taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A, and vitamin B12. <<<


http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

Hope this is helpful : )

[NuttyFluffers]

184. aha, there's that amino acid i was thinking of (have no cat, btw)

and even if i had a cat i wouldn't force it to be vegan.

but if they've managed to do something that circumvents potential dangers of forcing a strict carnivore into a functioning vegan i'm fascinated. still doesn't sound like they've done it. perhaps ovo/lacto/icthy vegetarian but not a vegan version.

:) i better say nothing, but taurine is in red bull. but be careful people! just because you can eat it doesn't mean your pets can (different biology and all). i'm afraid the caffeine might be really bad for cats. i know large amounts of chocolate is lethal to dogs, and there's suspicion that the main culprit might be caffeine. don't want anyone feeding red bull to supplement their cats diet.

thanks for all the info mordarlar. it's good for people to know this. as has been said, "the path to hell is paved with good intentions," be good to your pet and don't force it to live a wholly human life. respect their biology.

[mordarlar]

185. thank you

[Puglover]

227. It IS helpful and true

I'm sure however disgusting to Leftchick and her "vegan" cats. Talk about not having a clue, that's called animal abuse.

on edit
I don't normally go on the attack in this forum but I love animals and I love cats (have two of them) and to expect an animal to eat in an unnatural way because of your beliefs is pure and simple horseshit.

[catgirl]

187. Not true.

The first thing cats (including wild cats) eat are the contents of
the stomache. Then, if they are still hungry they'll move on to
the flesh.

[AlienGirl]

217. This used to be the case

However, now that bacteria-synthesized taurine is available, most cats can live on a vegan diet.

Tucker

[mordarlar]

224. taurine is not the only nutrition related issue for cats...

[Spider Jerusalem]

138. Um...because cats are carnivores???

Who hunt in the wild? I don't understand why you'd keep a carnivore as a pet and feed it a vegan diet, personally...

[LisaL]

142. Well, I am happy to say, at least he didn't cook a cat.

Guinea Pig? WTF cooks Guinea Pig?

[Occulus]

152. Aren't they rodents, though?

As I recall, rodents are usually "safe" to eat. Not that I would eat a flippin Guinea pig.....

sheesh.....

OTOH, I think the rabbit was okay, although I'd prefer if he had actually trapped a wild one live and then brought it to school for his little demonstration.

It's not a fun thought, but suppose for some reason one of the kids in his class actually needed that skill someday? He'd be thanking this kid for at least giving him a memory to turn to for guidance...

[LisaL]

154. What skill? Killing the pets you bought in a pet store?

[Richard Steele]

165. Yes, a truly useful skill.

After another 4 years under the Shrub regeime, the ability to prepare and cook small rodents is gonna be pretty necesary for alot of us!

Of course, we the sheeple won't be able to afford no highfalutin' store-bought critters...
but once you skin a rat, the principles involved are basically the same.

[DoNotRefill]

169. When a cat is cooked and eaten it's not called a "cat" any more...

it's referred to as "Roof Rabbit".

Get yer nomenclature right, people...

[LostinVA]

225. Central/South Americans eat guinea pigs

Or so I say once on :Globetrekker" with Justine Shapiro! The one she had were split and fried, and first you break off their heads and suck out their brains. I'm a meat eater, and even I was like ewwww! But, it's a cultural thing, so...

My dad hunts and my uncle has a farm where barnyard animals are killed and eaten for dinner. HOWEVER, the rabbit this boy bought wasn't a brown wild rabbit, it was a pet store bunny -- absolutely not the same thing. And, I think this is what freaked out so many people. I don't think there's anything wrong with a rural home ec class showing this, but I do think it should have been mentioned before hand, and those who didn't want to see it shouldn't have to.

I've cleaned fish, but there's no way I could dress a rabbit unless I was starving. Ick. I couldn't be a nurse or a doctor, either...

[moindependent]

104. Inexpensive biomechanical method

With birds and other small animals, we snap their necks if they don't die immediately from a gunshot.

[rodeodance]

128. oh for heaven's sake!!

[Spider Jerusalem]

137. A quick clean cut across the throat is the best way.

Also the least painless.

Personally I don't see much wrong with this.

But then, I have good friends who are Muslim, and have attended Eid celebrations, where goats (usually bought or raised for the purpose) are slaughtered in this manner.

Note that this is a "rural community", according to the story, where, due to poverty, many people supplement their income by hunting. So in this context, it is probably not out of place in a "life skills" class.


And the "future serial killer" comment is a bit much. There'd be some justification if the animals were tortured; they weren't.

Try taking off your cultural blinders.

[Occulus]

149. he probably knocked their heads in

My dad would do that with unruly fish he had caught. I had to once or twice myself... Northern pike are NOT fun to be bit by.

The rabbit, I can understand, given his location... but a guinea pig?

Ick.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[baba]

39. You don't buy animals from a PET store to eat.

That's just wrong. Hunting wild rabbits for food is one thing. This kid didn't hunt the animals he killed. If you can't see that there is something wrong with this, I feel sorry for you.

[CAcyclist]

68. No, you buy rabbits and rodents from a pet store to feed to snakes

I agree there is something wrong here - it just seems to me like this was a provocative act , but people ought to be realistic about what happens to these species.

Not all of them end up as pets.

And there is nothing wrong in my mind with people who eat rabbits or people who butcher and eat rabbits as long as its done humanely. Considering that I used to be one of those people, and I may be again in the future.

[proud2BlibKansan]

133. Are you that lady

in Roger and Me?

[don954]

115. when i lived on a farm, we farmed rabits for meat & pets.

and no, we didnt have a pets section and a meat section. the cute looking ones went to pet stores, others got processed.

[DoNotRefill]

172. Really?

So all those mice being sold at petstores are really housepets, not the equivalent of "Purina python chow"? How about crickets? They are sold as pets, and not as lizard food and fish bait? What about the little minnows / guppies, you know, the ones that run 12 for $1? They aren't used as food for bigger fish?

Petstores sell animals for food ALL THE TIME, people...

[superconnected]

85. how about learning to grow vegetables

today, how many of us will need to skin a rabbit to survive.

What about other alternatives - like pine needles providing vitamin c, and you can eat them if you are starving.

[uppityperson]

88. Under Bush, anything may be possible, be patient.

[Occulus]

153. Can you also WEAR THEM IF YOU'RE COLD?

Thought not.

By the way- plants electronically scream when you cut them, and other plants not being cut electronically "cry" in "sympathy". This has actually been proven.

Enjoy your salad. :)

[mordarlar]

167. Wow i had to look this up see below

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-285331,00.html

[DoNotRefill]

174. Now we're getting into a Tool song....

Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life....

[catgirl]

189. Didn't know this was a pick on the vegetarian topic

why are some people so threatened by vegetarians? Has
anyone knocked meat eaters here? I didn't think so.

[uppityperson]

200. We're not picking on vegetarians, simply the kid was ok

We're not picking on vegetarians (overall, though some people will pick on others anytime) but saying that we don't have a problem with what this kid did. That's all.

[DoNotRefill]

173. Ask your local homeless person...

although rabbit, as opposed to roof rabbit, is a rarity.

[Warpy]

3. Although I find taking animals from a pet store and eating them icky

I have to wonder where those suburban parents think that neatly wrapped piece of steak in the case at the supermarket comes from.

It doesn't matter whether the animal was cute, furry and little or big, unlovely, and anonymous. Meat all comes from the same place. If you choose to eat it, you need to acknowledge that.

I think those kids learned a valuable lesson.

[purduejake]

4. How many of the parents who are complaining...

wear fur coats, have leather couches and car seats, etc. The guy is a little weird for cooking pets, but it's not any different than killing a mouse, cow, etc.

[uppityperson]

32. ewwwwwwwwwwwwww, you eat cows? disgusting creatures

stupid, inbred, pooping all over, full of prions causing us to go insane.

[Xipe Totec]

70. I'm crazy about cows!

besides, they're so stupid, they're practically vegetables.

[purduejake]

90. I know. I hate eating animals...

but they taste so good. mmmmm. Time to go to McDonalds for a double cheesburger!

[mutus_frutex]

7. I have to agree..

And I'm a living example of the dichotomy: I used to kill and skin rabbit s when I was a kid (my father used to breed pedigree rabbits). Now my wife and I have 4 guinea pigs, we had 2 more that passed, and we have fostered several. We also contribute to a GP, rabbit, ferret, etc rescue place..

So, this thing is really strange to me..

By the way, I still love rabbit.. I make a killer civet de lapin.. :-)

[proud2BlibKansan]

134. Maybe so

but as teacher in a public school, I will say this just wasn't the best place for those kids to learn about slaughtering furry little animals.

Perhaps a field trip to a meat processing plant would have been a more appropriate way to teach this valuable lesson.

[catgirl]

190. Totally agree.

there should be an elective field trip to a slaughter house.
There would be a lot more compassion towards animals
if this happened.

[proud2BlibKansan]

222. I am a city girl

who grew up on grocery store meat. But we knew where it came from. We went on field trips to the slaughter houses and stockyards so we would learn exactly where that meat came from. To think that this has to be demonstrated in a classroom with animals from a pet store is downright ridiculous.

[sendero]

193. Thank you...

... that is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm not sure what makes animals from a pet store different from animals in the wild, and especially - what makes them different from animals we eat for food? At least the pet store animal might have had some kind of life, animals grown for food in this country rarely do.

I eat meat and I don't feel guilty about it. But I believe animals should be treated humanely all the time.

Some here seem to think the kid is some kind of sicko, that is because they have never lived in the country and faced life as it really is instead of their antiseptic delusional version.

[quiet.american]

5. Those kids could have gotten seriously physically ill, too.

Aside from the other issues, allowing this student to serve the "samples" to the class presented a potentially serious health risk to those students, too.

What a lack of good judgment on that teacher's part!

[seriousstan]

12. What health risk? No more than any cooking class risk.

I would worry more about cooking and eating store bought chicken than this.

[quiet.american]

25. Who knew where he'd actually gotten those carcasses from?

And if one can get ill from store-bought meat, you can certainly get ill from uncured furry carcasses kept in the fridge overnight. Who knew what potential ailments those "pets" may have had!

[Xithras]

41. According to the article, the teacher didn't know.

He asked for permission to prepare a wild rabbit, which the teacher granted. It says nowhere that the teacher ever discovered that the rabbit was from a pet store.

Humans and our prehuman ancestors have been eating wild rabbit for more than 100,000 years, so the teacher probably had no reason to question the health of letting students sample it.

[quiet.american]

60. That seems even worse to me, to tell you the truth.

I know what you're saying, however, this situation would have given me pause if I were a teacher.

The environment in this country, according to RFK, Jr's "Crimes Against Nature" is the worst it's ever been. Animals, especially wild ones, are showing up with hideous deformities and conditions never previously observed.

If that "wild" meat had caused students to become ill, it would have no doubt opened the school up to a good-sized lawsuit.

[mudderfudder77]

6. What problem?

I certainly don't see any problem with this...

[Ripley]

16. How about the Moral issue?

Buying PETS at a PET STORE and killing, skinning and cooking them in a classroom is not the same as a kid bringing in a deer he hunted and killed. How many kids in that class had guinea pig pets at home? Do you think they should be forced to eat their PETS? Not too many people have deer PETS.

Americans make a distinction between farm animals/wild animals and PETS. Do you see guinea pig or dog in the grocery store?

[Xipe Totec]

24. Then it's not a moral issue, but a cultural one

Or are you implying that American custom is the universal standard of morality?

[Ripley]

37. Okay, cultural, whatever.

Where did you get the American custom and universal standard of morality crap? I didn't say that. This was an American school right? So I commented on that.

[Xipe Totec]

48. I agree with the cultural standard point

just not the moral point. Your argument combined them into one so I could not agree with you.

To argue that the act was immoral is to impose local custom as a moral standard. That's were I got it from.

peace.

[Coastie for Truth]

28. Yes there is a moral issue

there is a "social contract" from a Pet Store or a NO KILL SHELTER that you will not use the animals for experimental purposes, vivisection, food, or MEDICAL SCHOOL EDUCATION - EVEN AT HARVARD.

IMHO - any wise butt HARVARD MEDICAL STUDENT - even a rich kid who wants to be a world renowned heart surgeon and President of the US - who signs the declaration at a NO KILL SHELTER and then takes the animals for medical school "exercises" lacks the moral character necessary to get my vote for President.

Hint- MISTER William Frist

[Igel]

73. People routinely buy small mammals and fish to feed to predatory pets.

There's no implied pet store "no kill" policy for them. If people had larger predators for pets, they'd need larger food animals. It's just gross. Khoe-San eat ants; I find that gross, too.

Shelters, that's another matter. They were too long raided as lab animal center.

[seriousstan]

76. There is no such thing as a "no kill shelter".

There are shelters that don't do their own killing but the all send the overflow or unadoptables to be killed.

[catgirl]

191. Your title is misleading

Your title says "There is no such thing as a "no kill shelter".
Then you go on to say "there are some that that don't do their
own killing.....this is a bunch of BS. If there is a "no kill shelter"
sending animals off to die, then this is a scam operation and
should be reported to the police. This means they are
collecting donations from unsuspecting people who think
they are something that they are not. Your false statement that
there is no such thing as a no kill shelter is simply ridiculous.
There are real people out there that actually do love animals.

[Occulus]

155. wrong, wrong, WRONG

When I owned a snake the pet store at which I got her food had them labeled as "feeder rats". The PET STORE was explicitly selling animals as food for other animals. Everyone knew it, the store did it intentionally, and the employees even helped me pick out the plumpest and healthiest ones for my snake.

There's no such thing as what you're describing for pet stores. It simply. Isn't. True.

[mordarlar]

171. How is a "feeder" rat differant from a "pet" rat

[uppityperson]

29. Showing where food comes from is not forcing them to eat their pets

Did you know that guinea pigs are raised as meat in south america? This is what they've been bred for and raised for for years? And dogs are eaten in many places, even in the USA? I raise chickens as pets (actually I eat the eggs too, unborn baby chickens?), does this mean I should never be served chicken when I eat dinner? No one was force to eat their pet, but served up meat in a class. Seems a valuable lesson- where does your food come from, what are you eating?

[Ripley]

42. This is Cleveland, not South America.

You can cook your own Golden Retriever and eat him in your home for all I care, but I don't think it is appropriate for a student in a public school to use Universally acknowledged PETS in Ohio in this manner.

Comparing this to chickens is absurd. While some may have "pet chickens" - that meat can be found in any grocery store in America. I've lived all over the US and I've never seen guinea pig and rabbit in a supermarket. I'm not making a morality play about what people can and can't eat....I have a problem with this being forced upon fellow high school students who very well may have those PETS at home.

Why didn't he go shoot a deer and prepare venison? Or why didn't he get a cat at the PET store and skin and cook that for his co-students? Would you still think it was cool if he served Siamese cat?

[FreeCajun]

47. Plenty of rabbits in the grocery stores around here.

South Louisiana, though, we eat anything.

[Ripley]

55. That ain't Cleveland.

I know there are regional differences in what groceries carry. I remember seeing chocolate covered bugs in Hawaii.

As I said, I'm not making the case people can't eat what they want, but it seems unethical to purchase a PET at a store and then eat it. Maybe the kid could survive fine in the wilderness with his "living skills" but he doesn't seem to have understand the difference between wild animals that are hunted and domesticated animals sold as companions.

Yall must eat gator too. Does it taste like chicken?

[CAcyclist]

71. There's lots of meat rabbit breeders in Ohio.

There's rabbit in your grocery stores - you just haven't looked for it.

[FreeCajun]

103. No, gator tastes a cross between catfish and chicken.

I think these kids got a damn valuable lesson: "Look at the cute widdle wabbit... Hey wait! ... Oh... I guess meat doesn't start out in shrink wrap."

Regardless, it is unethical: because you aren't allowed to buy them from a pet store if you want to eat them. Also dangerous: pet store meat is likely to carry all sorts of nasty pet store germs.

If he was a *REAL* hunter he should have brought in a rabbit he shot and used that, or at the very least gotten it from a breeder that supplies rabbits for boas and pythons or for human consumption.

I think at the very least a fine via violation of the pet store's policy is in order.

[Tacos al Carbon]

118. Rabbit meat is plentiful in Cleveland

Go down to the downtown farmer's market on any weekend. You can get your rabbit whole (and already skinned) there. I've bought rabbit (already butchered) in San Francisco. These animals weren't pets because no one ever treated them as pets. Who sold them is irrelevant. If this boy had taken his rifle and shot a rabbit and some other varmints there would be no discussion but some little rabbit babies may have starved because mommy rabbit was shot. At least this way no other animals die needlessly.

[uppityperson]

49. Ever been to a big Asian grocery store ?

All sorts of "weird" food there. And yes, rabbit is often found in stores. Read JOY of Cooking for information on cooking exotic meats and entrails.

[Ripley]

56. Yeah, I've seen lots of weird stuff.

But does Joy of Cooking say....go to Pets R Us and buy the fluffiest bunny and bring it home to kill and cook for your family? I think not. That section on exotic meats is for hunters.

[Xithras]

54. I just saw a rabbit in the market yesterday

Granted, I don't buy my meat in a supermarket, but the meat market that I shop in has a full supply of everything from your standard beef, chicken, and pork, to the less common duck, lamb, goat, and rabbit. If I go to a supermarket in the local barrio, I can find not only rabbit in their freezer, but also meat from animals that you've probably never heard of.

Somehow, though, I doubt that they sell Guinea Pig.

[Igel]

79. Rochester had rabbit; so does Houston.

I always found it gross. I've known people that love rabbit. Sometimes in a cage, sometimes in a pot.

The difference between a pet and "other" is the emotional attachment we have, and which animals we're culturally "allowed" to be attached to. I couldn't eat a dog; it's a pet. I used to have a guinea pig. And I knew that many people in the Andes traditionally let them roam around their huts and even fed them for meat.

I've had pet gerbils and hamsters. My wife likes cats; for her, they're not pets, they're cat food.

I've known people that had pet quail (cute little things, but they crap all over the place if you let them out), pet chickens, pet goats, pet chipmunks, even a pet cow. Boy, their parents said they cried, screamed and refused to eat their pet cow when it was slaughtered.

[Anakin Skywalker]

100. "This is Cleveland, not South America."

Well said. In our society, there are acceptable foods. From the way some of these people argue, would it be a far stretch for me to think they will excuse cannibalism next?

[moindependent]

106. This is the USA, not ancient Rome

Equally well said. In our society, there are acceptable sexual and marital practices. Gays have no place in our society, and definitely have no right to marriage. From the way some of these people argue, would it be a far stretch for me to think they will excuse sex with prepubescent children.

I pray that my sarcasm isn't lost on this crowd. It appears that many DUer's are highly prejudiced; you just have to find the right button to push to make it pop up.

[mordarlar]

175. I have friends who are newly American citizens. When i go there i eat what

they eat. Interesting at times. ; ) But they are Americans too.

[Occulus]

156. Rabbits are also universally acknowledged as food.

And if I were hungry enough and I had a pet rabbit, you better believe I'd be seeing it as potential food. It's silly to not think of it as such.

Remember, rabbits and other "small, cute, furry little animals" were considered food for quite some time before they were ever considered to be pets. In fact, one could probably argue that they only started being considerde to be pets when it became no longer necessary to consider them food.

Now look at where we are in this country today. There are people hunting because they can't afford to buy food. Thus, as a life skill, hunting, killing, and properly preparing wild (or domestic) meat is becoming more and more a valued life skill in some areas, and apparently this would include this kid's locale.

It is not difficult to understand the rationale behind his actions. I quite honestly have to defend him...

...except for the guinea pig part. He could have picked something else, after all.....

[mordarlar]

170. It is a very rural area outside of Cleveland. Most people probably...

would not have had much of an issue if not for the pet store bit.

[Cicero]

52. Yes, but that misses the point

It is one thing to serve up venison from a deer you have killed and butchered in the wild (or even a rabbit). It is quite another when you get the animal from a pet store, where there is at least an implicit (and sometimes explicit) agreement that the pet in question ain't going to end up in the stew pot.

It shows a lack of judgement and empathy on the part of the kid in question. It doesn't make him evil, but all the outcry should make him sit down and say to himself, "WTF was I thinking??!!"

Later,

[uppityperson]

63. Meat=animal, no pet store agreement to not eat, though shelters do

Some animal shelters and other "adopt a pet" places have an agreement that if they don't think you're taking care of the animal you got from them as they want, they can take it away. However, I have not seen pet stores require this. Many sell feeder fish and pnkies (baby rats/mice) for fish/rodent food too. Meat comes from animals. If people want to eat meat, this is a good thing to be faced with. And these kids are a good age to deal with this. This is why many teenagers become moral vegetarians, at least for a while. Meat=murdering an animal. If you're ok with eating an animal, you should be ok with killing one. And does it make killing an animal worse because the animal in question may be thought of as a pet? meat is murder.

[Igel]

82. Where do animals bought at live markets come in?

If I take one home and domesticate it instead of killing it and cooking it (or killing it *by* cooking it), is it food or a pet?

I tried to keep a pet crab once. Too young to understand about water salinity.

[LisaL]

143. A valuable lesson? Where does you food comes from-

apparently the pet store.:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Occulus]

157. That's what my snake thought; it's where I got the feeder rats, too

I do believe they sold live smelt there as well, and smelt are eaten by humans all the time.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bleedingheart]

8. My dad raised rabbits during the depression for his family to eat

[AngryAmish]

10. Tell me about the rabbits....

[bleedingheart]

15. it was way before my time...

I remember him telling me about it when I was a child before he passed away

[AngryAmish]

19. In "Of Mice and Men"

the lummox would always ask George that. It was set in the Depression.

[bleedingheart]

20. oh....I didn't remember that line

[Mizmoon]

9. In our culture, they are companion animals

especially because they were bought from the PET store. They are not to be eaten and I actually think this kid is very creepy. It's like a beginning serial killer or something.

The teacher is a loon as well.

[proud2BlibKansan]

135. Why call the teacher a loon?

The teacher didn't know the kid was going to the pet store to buy the meat he was cooking. The article says eating wild animals is common in this area. So it sounds like cooking wild game is a valuable life skill in this town.

Why is it always the teacher's fault? :mad:

[Mizmoon]

145. Guinea pigs are not "wild animals"

:crazy:

[proud2BlibKansan]

197. From reading the article,

I don't see where the teacher went wrong. The student failed to follow directions. How is that the teacher's fault? She did allow kids to leave who didn't want to watch. Sounds to me like she handled it well.

The student told Gage that he butchered the animals at home before bringing them to school and placing them in the class refrigerator Wednesday. His living skills teacher, Diana Stevens, sets aside that day for her students to prepare a meal of their choice, Gage said.

The boy had asked Stevens if he could catch and cook a wild rabbit.

She approved, providing he dress - or gut - the carcass before class, the principal said.

A few students became alarmed, however, when the boy took two furry carcasses out of a bag.

Stevens allowed him to skin the animals and go ahead with the food preparation. Those in the fourth-period class who didn't want to watch were allowed to go into an adjoining room, Gage said. Meat carved off the animals was cooked and then sampled.

[uppityperson]

201. Guinea pigs are like cows, some places wild, some domestic

THere are wild guinea pigs in areas of the world, and are raised domestically for meat or pets in other places. Even here in the USA they can live in the wild if the weather is right. Cows too. Some places in the world they are wild, mostly what we raise and butcher and eat (humanely or not) are too domesticated to be wild. They've been bred for their meat or milk qualities and not for their ability to survive in the wild.

[Occulus]

158. Wha???

I've *never* thought of rabbits as pets. Not once. They are wild animals, prey animals, and to be eaten is what they are here for. Not to look cute, not to be cuddled and cooed at, but to be eaten.

ALL rodents are prey animals, even the capybara. I wonder what those taste like.....

[Mizmoon]

192. If you bought a rabbit in a PET store

you'd think of it as a pet. A rabbit bought in a pet store is a companion animal. I've NEVER thought of rabbits as food. To me, that would be like eating a racoon. I understand that some people eat them, but I am certain that they don't buy them in pet stores.

[catgirl]

194. animals are here to survive

they are not here solely to be eaten. They feel joy, they love
their babies and have strong instincts to survive. I am not
religious, and I find the notion that animals were "put" on
this planet for the sole purpose of humans to be frightening.

[Ezlivin]

11. That's all folks!

[Botany]

14. Later students who ate the meat ......

........ drank water from a "dribbler bottle", spent hours on an exercise wheel,
and had fecal matter that was in little round pellets.

Gee, in N.E. Ohio their are plenty of rabbit farms who raise the bunnies for
meat. And tell me that the boy could not find a wild squirrel to shoot vs
getting a guinea pig.


:bounce:

[bleedingheart]

18. It is so cold in PA and OH that the kid probably figured that

the pet store was a sure bet versus hunting out in the freezing cold...

[Botany]

35. I live in Ohio .....

....... But if the kid wanted to show his hunting skills he can go out in the cold.
I did. I understand not being able to find a rabbit but a squirrel? If he is such a little
Johnny Woodsman he should be able to harvest one of those.

A bird feeder ...... in a rural area ....... and a .22 ...... squirrel pie!

A bet a lot of people think that when you open a cow up the meat is hanging on the ribs in 2 lbs packs with the cut stamped on it.

[knitter4democracy]

66. My students when I taught in Cleveland did.

We're vegetarian (no meat, no dairy), and it would confuse the students every year (I taught high school, mind you). They were convinced that eggs are dairy because they're in the dairy section of the supermarket. They also would go on and on that fish isn't meat or that chicken isn't meat, and I would reply that anything with a face or a nervous system constitutes meat--which would just confuse them more. I'd only deal with it when asked and then try to move on as quickly as possible, but it always amazed me at what they didn't know. I grew up in rural Michigan with stepbrothers who trapped, hunted, and fished, and we even raised our own hogs and beef from time to time. I only gave meat up over a health problem, so I was always suprised at what they thought meat and dairy were.

[tblue37]

91. Don't eat the squirrel.

Wild squirrel meat has been implcated in Variant Creuzfeld-Jacob Disease in the US (that's the people version of the prion disease that shows up in cattle as mad cow).

[Botany]

94. Even cooked?

Although I only had squirrel years ago in college in the fall as we watched The Browns
on t.v. and drank beer. Not a lot of meat on those things. They tasted like chicken. lol

:bounce:

[tblue37]

147. Cooking doesn' t affect prions.

The people who got VCJ Disease from eating beef were not eating uncooked beef.

[Occulus]

159. Even cooked.

I think there's a problem with deer now, too, in the mid/upper Midwest... WI, MN, and *possibly* northern MI.

Prions require very high heat to destroy.

[Dave Reynolds]

129. Link to source, please. /nt

[tblue37]

150. I read about it in the newspaper a couple of years ago.

But there are articles online about it. It's the squirrel brains you have to watch out for, but then again, it's the brain and spinal cord of cows that you have to watch out for, too. (BTW, there is some sort of similar wasting/neurological disease associated with eating venison, too. Doctors suspect VCJ Disease on that, also.)

Here is a link to a page about the squirrel brains:
www.mad-cow.org/~tom/victim23.html

Lancet 350, Number 9078 - Saturday 30 August 1997
Joseph R Berger, Erick Weisman, Beverly Weisman
Department of Neurology, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY 40536-0284, USA

Spongiform encephalopathies have been reported in a variety of large and small mammals.1 While conducting a study of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) in south Florida, one of us (JRB) observed an affected patient who was originally a native of Kentucky and had a history of eating squirrel brains. Dietary transmission of prion diseases has been documented experimentally in animals2 and in human beings who are cannibals.3 Several case reports have suggested the possibility of transmission of CJD by consumption of brains of wild animals.4 These observations, together with recent concerns about the transmission of a unique encephalopathy in man believed to be related to bovine spongiform encephalopathy5 led us to examine the possible association of eating squirrel brains with CJD in rural Kentucky, where eating squirrel and other small game is not uncommon.

Culinary preparations include scrambling the brains with eggs or putting them in a meat and vegetable stew referred to as "burgoo". A history of eating squirrel brains was obtained from family members of all five patients with probable or definite CJD seen over 3,5 years in a neurocognitive clinic in western Kentucky. Two women and three men aged from 56 to 78 years (mean 68.2 years) were affected. None were related and each lived in a different town. Eating squirrel brains was reported among 12 of 42 patients with Parkinson's disease seen in the same clinic and 27 of 100 age-matched controls without neurological disease living in western Kentucky. Ataxia early in the course of the disease was seen in four of the patients with CJD and myoclonus and periodic complexes on the electroencephalogram were seen in all.

Here's something about the venison connection:
CJD, SUSPECTED CLUSTER - USA (WISCONSIN)
**************************************
A ProMED-mail post
<http://www.promedmail.org>
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
<http://www.isid.org>

Date: Sun 21 Jul 2002
From: PromED-mail <[e-mail]>
Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Sat 20 Jul 2002
<http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/jul02/60546.asp>

Did wild game feasts lead to fatal brain disorders?
- ---------------------------------------------------
Wild game feasts were a fall ritual that drew outdoorsmen to a family cabin overlooking the Brule River in Wisconsin. The father of the present owner died of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) and 2 other participants also died from rare brain disorders. Now, years later, the legacy of those hearty spreads of the late 1980s and early '90s is a medical mystery linking these 3 diners.

One by one, the 3 have died from rare brain diseases, leaving their
families and health officials wondering whether their deaths were an eerie coincidence or evidence that the deer and elk brain disorder known as chronic wasting disease has crossed the threshold from animals to people. Either way, their tale is one more warning sign on a cautionary trail cutting through the heart of one of Wisconsin's most popular and revered traditions: deer hunting.

Of the 3 deceased, 2 died of CJD, an always-fatal brain ailment that occursin only one in a million people. The third was believed to have died of Pick's disease, a somewhat more common neurological disorder that can be diagnosed in error when the true culprit is CJD.

. . .

Raising more suspicion, however, is the fact that some of the meat served at the wild game feasts was elk and deer from Western states, including Colorado, where chronic wasting disease has been endemic for decades. Presented last week with specifics of the cases, state public health officials expressed concern. "We've immediately decided to proceed with an investigation," said Jeffrey Davis, chief medical officer and state epidemiologist for communicable diseases at the Wisconsin Division of Public Health. He said the state will request death certificates and clinical and laboratory records for the 3 men.

[seriousstan]

17. Pot-belly pig........pet on Saturday, breakfast on Sunday. Perfectly legal

[Cats Against Frist]

21. The whole pet store thing was creepy and wrong

but rabbits taste REALLY good.

[uppityperson]

23. Pet store animals may not be safe to eat

You don't know what crap they've been eating or exposed to. I'd make sure to feed them organic food for a couple weeks first, and make sure they weren't sick before butchering them. Hey, all meat comes from animals, whether it is packaged in plastic or fur/feathers. Everyone who eats meat should have to butcher their own food, at least once. It makes you more respectful of what it is you are eating- it's not just plastic wrapped food, but an actual creature. (ok, flame away)

[Xipe Totec]

33. Then it's a health issue, not an animal cruelty issue

Perhaps you have a valid point, the health department should investigate. But instead, they went for the the animal cruelty rap.

[uppityperson]

53. Thinking more, who knows what wild ones ate and diseased with

You're supposed to use gloves when you clean wild rabbits, I think tulliremia or some such thing you can get. So perhaps domestic store raised one would be best, though personally I'd make sure any I ate had had only good food for a while.

[sleepyhead]

69. The health department *should* investigate.

Many if not most pet stores are overcrowded dirty places that are hotbeds of all kinds of diseases and parasites. The employees are often woefully ignorant of proper husbandry and in many cases can't even be bothered to clean out a dirty cage or tend to a pet that looks sick. I can't even set foot in a pet store any more - the last time I did, I saw a heartbreaking number of sick animals. When I tried to let someone in authority know, I was ignored. All this to say that (leaving aside the cruelty issue) I don't think it is at all safe to eat any animal that came from a pet store. Not to mention that the school has now given tacit approval to this and other students may be tempted to try the same stunt. Someone is bound to get sick and then all hell will break loose.

[Xipe Totec]

84. Agreed. Definitely a health concern

It was not a well though out action on the part of a young person. There are valid health reasons not to ever use pet store animals again for this kind of class. But once the health issues are addressed, there is no further reason to discontinue the class, so long as it is an elective.

[Occulus]

160. ok, now there's an argument I *can* agree with

You're completely correct in this objection. Bravo for finding a real reason to investigate/forbid students from using any old animal.

Actually, if hunting for food to supplement income is common in his area, perhaps the school might want to start a course on proper husbandry/slaughter procedures. It sounds as if it may be something many there could benefit from.

[Ruby Romaine]

74. The vultures in India (used in sky burials) are dying out due to

Diclofenac, a drug in cattle carcases.
It's poisonous to birds not cows.
the kids could have been exposed to any number of drugs that the animals were fed.

[blindpig]

26. Guinea pigs are food animals in Peru

wonder if they skin out as easy as rabbit?

[oneighty]

111. I understand

once they are skinned out and dressed one cannot tell them from cat or dog.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

At the university sometimes students would eat their experiments.

180

[Horse with no Name]

141. One of my favorite Chinese food restaurants

in Texas was shut down because the police saw lights on in the back late one night so they stopped.
There were over 100 skinned cats hanging on a clothesline while they cleaned and gutted them.
Makes me sick because the "chicken" at that place was always so tender and had a great taste....at least I thought so at the time.
Ickkkkk....and more ick.
I don't eat Chinese anymore...and my kitties don't go outside cause we have a Chinese restaurant down the road.

[Benhurst]

27. This kid sounds like another Jeff Dahmer or George Bush in the making. NT

[Coastie for Truth]

31. Jeff Dahmer

FACT - started out collecting neighbors' cats and dogs - and carving them up FACT

But then again MISTER William Frist started out taking cats from NO KILL SHELTERS and carving them up.

Did you know - Dahmer's daddy was a PhD chemist - and a Professor at Akron Univ. MISTER Frist's daddy was an MD - both children of privilege.

[Benhurst]

And George Walker Bush went around cramming lit firecrackers

up bullfrogs' asses. I think we can safely say he was a child of privilege as well.

Just the kind of person you'd want to rule over you.

[superconnected]

86. I agree, cruelty often shows up at an early age

that was in response the bull-frog post.

I'm often surprised at the lack of empathy and potential for cruelty some children/people have. Others can never have killed a cat/bullfrog, or hurt an animal.

One of my friends asked me once, how he didn't catch something bad is co-worker was doing. I said, because you're decent. You didn't think of it because you wouldn't do it.

[catgirl]

195. Is this true? Please tell you're joking!

[Benhurst]

198. Unfortunately not. See link below.

www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-3nov2000-frogs.html

If you want further links, google "Bush firecrackers"

[seriousstan]

78. FACT - Hitler drank milk -FACT

There's a rock solid cause and effect.

[Lorien]

108. My father is a psychologist for a state prison

and yes, most serial killers and sadists (who often end up killing children or family members) started out buy killing small animals for "fun". State penalties for animal abuse are getting stiffer because law enforcement has found a direct link between the killing or torture of small animals by children and future violent criminal activity.

[seriousstan]

119. He killed the animals in order to cook and eat them, not for fun.

I hope you missed that part otherwise you simply ignored it trying to make a point. Nowhere did anyone accuse him of torturing the animals.

"My father is a psychologist for a state prison"? That makes you THE CHILD of a psychologist for a state prison, nothing more.

[DoNotRefill]

176. Ummm...

I think you'll find that the link is between torturing animals FOR FUN and later criminality, as opposed to humanely killing animals for food. People who kill their own food are no more likely to be criminals than the rest of the population at large.

[catgirl]

196. Aw, your cats are beautiful!

[DrWeird]

83. Fact-

witch hunters used to go around accusing children of being monsters when they really weren't.

[FizzFuzz]

123. oh yes they are

;) :P

[Xithras]

30. A rabbit I can understand, but a guniea pig?

Where are we, Peru?

Many common "pet" rabbit varieties were originally bred for food and are legally classified as livestock in most states. When I was a kid my grandfather raised Lops in his backyard for food (fairly common when he was younger), and occasionally gave a few away as pets. What was the difference between the pet rabbit and the dinner rabbit? Luck!

I have to wonder about the health of what this kid did though. As a pet rabbit sold through a pet store, it probably lived on a different type of diet than most food rabbits, and it had vaccinations injected into it that probably weren't rated as safe for human consumption. He'll get his butt sued off if his little "dinner" made anyone sick. If the kid had any brains he'd have gone to a feedstore. If they didn't sell meat rabbits themselves, they probably could have directed him to someone that did. Buying it from a pet store was just stupid.

And the guinea pig? I understand that they're a popular dish in South America but...blech! :puke:

[Bridget Burke]

34. Reading the article--the boy said he was going to hunt ....

For the "Living Skills" class. But he failed, so he went to the pet store.

"My skin's crawling over this," said Linda Schempp, a spokeswoman for the pet store chain. "We sell our animals to be family pets - not food."

[papau]

40. Sounds like a lot of fisherman that I know - after a bad day buying a fish

Not much meat on those rats - and very string like as there is usually little fat.

I wonder how he cooked them.

most likely the usual red stew - allows for any creature meat to taste reasonable.

[Xipe Totec]

45. Living Skills

Two steps involved here, killing and cooking. He failed the first step so he went for the second.

That just reminded me of a class they teach in college in South Texas for ROTC students. It is a combination marksmanship and first aid. If you fail at marksmanship you will definitely need the first aid skills to make up.

Where do they get the ideas for these classes?

[LizW]

38. Next week: roadkill

I'll probably get flamed by pet shop owners for this, but pet shops always seem sort of dodgy, at least those chain ones in the malls. They stink, and the animals seem desperately unhappy and none too well kept.

And well kept or not, eating pet store guinea pig is just disgusting to me.

[papau]

43. Vermont Roadkill is by law saved for the schools!

but folks break the law all the time.

Usually you only have 20 minutes after a kill before it is no longer on the highway.

[LizW]

46. Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!

LOL!

[DoNotRefill]

177. I know people who eat fresh roadkill....

if they find the animal still alive, they'll wait for the game warden to show up and kill it (or else they will do it themselves if the game warden isn't available) and then butcher the parts of the animal that are still edible.

[swimmernsecretsea]

44. Next, on IRON CHEF

But what's a good wine with Guinea Pig? A nice Napa Pinot Noir?

[Rainscents]

50. Gezzzz..........

I'm not going to have some of you over at my place, because, I have 18 lbs Bunny pet. I'm afraid, someone might want to eat my bunny. LOL

[Cicero]

62. Now that's just evil

:evilgrin:

Just make sure the Iron Chef Japanese isn't the one picked. I can just see some of the dishes:

"Guinea Pig Ice Cream with Eyeball"

<add your own>

Blech!!!

[Xipe Totec]

77. Wine? how uncouth!

Beer is the proper beverage. A nice Peruvian Pilsen Trujillo, or a Chilean Escudo. :toast:

[Sentath]

87. Thanks

I hadn't thought about beer.

I was going to suggest a Chilean white to go with what is considered to be a white meat.

To be a little on topic I can see 2 problems.

1) the health issue (more chemistry than biology)

2) the teacher specified that they be dressed before being brought in and backed off. Bad classroom discipline.

[Xipe Totec]

89. Yea, all kidding aside, it was a pretty dumb move

I agree with the chem/bio hazard concerns, and the fact that the teacher did not maintain proper discipline. I just don't agree with criminalizing this act based on cultural norms of what constitutes a food animal or a pet.

I remember a story from a last year where Hispanics moving in to Georgia were causing some cultural clashes in their neighborhoods. It seems that a Hispanic family had recently moved to GA and was keeping live goats in their back yard. The neighbors complained to the police who visited the family and informed them it was illegal to keep farm animals in a residential neighborhood. The family apologized and said they would take care of the problem. They did. They slaughtered the goats and hung the carcasses from the clotheslines, as is the custom in some areas in Mexico and South America (I know, I've been there and seen it). Naturally, the neighbors were outraged and called the police a second time. Only this time they were informed that there was no law against slaughtering animals for food in your own back yard, only a law against keeping them alive.

Oh well...

[sportndandy]

51. Cows ARE pet store animals.

They live their whole lives dependant on humans. They are docile and tame, and they are scared shitless and totally betrayed when they are dragged off to slaughter. Hey, I love the taste of a good steak, but I don't think anyone should die so that I can enjoy my food.

[uppityperson]

57. Joy of Cooking Game and Variety Meat section list

rabbit, hare, opossum, porcupine, racoon, muskrat, woodchuck, beaver, beaver tail, armadillo, venison/deer, bear, peccary, wild boar (including stuffed boar's head)

liver, sweetbreads, brains, kidney, heart, tongue, tripe, oxtails, knuclebones,pigstails, cockscombs, chitterlings, marrow

[Ripley]

64. FOR HUNTERS, not PET STORE SHOPPING.

Why is this so hard for some of you to understand? By your continued acceptance of what took place, you obviously wouldn't care if the boy had cooked up an Angora cat from the Pet Store. Wow, I'd like to have seen the classmates' faces when he skinned Fluffy.

[bleedingheart]

72. I bet somewhere in the US tonight fluffy is being served for dinner

I am not condoning it but our culture is actually a mixture of all world cultures...

[DrWeird]

92. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I don't see why an Angora cat is any better than a guinea pig. Or a chicken. Or a nice big salmon.

I wouldn't do it myself, but I'm not so hypocritical as to get upset by somebody else doing it.

[DoNotRefill]

178. can you make a sweater from an angora cat?

???

[mordarlar]

179. The rabbits served in markets and those sold in the pet stores...

sometimes come from the same places.

[Renew Deal]

59. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't more common.

People buy live chickens and other animals in other countries for eating. Why not here? :shrug:

[nosmokes]

61. OFFS... this ain't no thang.

if any of those kids were traumatised by the experience, good. we are way too far removed from food production anyway. that's why we've allowed poisons and shit like GMO crops to come into the food chain virtually unchecked, and our food supply to become controlled by the same greedy assholes that produce WMD. i believe that anyone that eats meat should hafta kill an animal once, at least, just so they know. and if they wanna go to kentucky fried chicken instead of buying a free range bird they should hafta go to a corporate poultry farm and spend a couple hours with the chickens and then decide if they can't figure out how to budget to be able to afford the extra samolians the humanely raised bird costs. the same with beef, lamb, and pork or anything else that had a face and a mother. if you're gonna eat it, at least be stand-up enough to ensure it led a decent life and died a respectful death.

[uppityperson]

65. Exactly. If you're gonna eat it, you should know if (nonbibilical sense)

[rinsd]

102. LOL...certainly gives a new twist for the "he's another Dahmer" crowd

(nt)

[KingoftheJungle]

67. I ate Guinea pig in Peru, it was quite tasty

I don't understand what it is with people in this country and their disgust with "exotic" meat (anything that isn't a cow, pig, chicken, etc). Muscle tissue is muscle tissue, and it is always going to come from something that lives and bleeds. Deal with it, our go vegan.

[Xipe Totec]

93. Never had guinea, but I've had armadillo

I would not recommend it for health reasons (they are carriers of leprosy), but it was quite tasty, like a very lean pork.

I agree that it is hypocritical to eat some meats and not others based on whether the animal is considered a pet or not.

[Lorien]

109. So how about eating a human being

just meat, right? Or does that sound absurd because of the "moral" issues? Eating chimps and monkey's gave us AIDS and Ebola, eating predators is extremely risky and is generally not done in nature. All meat is not the same.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

148. eat a puppy, eat a kitten--fun to watch them fight for life! mmgood!!

sick idea?
no--
if it tastes good kill it !!

I would love to see these idiots who support killing little animals for "meat" eat their dog, cat or child---
I mean if someone told these knuckle draggers it was"quite tasty" would they eat their own children?

and if not why not?

[Occulus]

161. ask the team that crashed in the Andes n/t

[progressivebydesign]

75. Someone needs to go to jail over this. I'm serious.

This is completely outrageous, and wrong. How many of those children will EVER actually have to hunt and kill their own food for survival. Firings, lawsuits, arrests.. I'm all for it. Fucking pigs.

[DrWeird]

95. I'd imagine most of these kids eat meat.

That means somebody's slaughtering animals for them.

[moindependent]

110. That's irrelevant

If they had a stay-at-home mother, and married a girl "just like mom", they'd never do their own laundry either. Doesn't mean they don't need to know how to do it, or have some concept of what it takes to create the food they eat.

Fucking pigs is a different matter altogether. That's REALLY sick. I'm offended that you would mention it.

[jbm]

122. LOL!!

Your last couple of lines were hilarious! Welcome to DU. :toast:

[Occulus]

162. But Terrance, you're SUCH a pigfucker!

NO FUCKING TEXT!!! :D

[uppityperson]

80. Poll for vegetarian or not link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2987489

[karlrschneider]

105. Afterward, the "protesting parents" took their kids to McDonalds for a

Big Mac.
:eyes:

[llmart]

113. I have to add my two cents here.....

Thompson, Ohio is redneck country. I wouldn't consider it a "suburb" of Cleveland. My brother and his uneducated, racist hillbilly wife live there. It's solid Bush country. They live out there because it's a relatively cheap place to buy a home - you can have a rundown trailer next to a nice house. The area is not highly desirable.

[TroubleMan]

117. "PETS OR MEAT"

He must have been watching Roger & Me.

[geniph]

124. It's funny how freaked out people are by that scene

with the lady raising rabbits. I dunno, maybe it's because I spent summers in a very rural environment, but I don't necessarily rule out any creature as a food source. That doesn't mean I eat 'em myself, but so long as the specific animals in question - not the species, the individuals - aren't anyone's pet, what's the difference between eating a rabbit and a chicken? I've raised both for food, kept both for pets, and eaten both. What's the difference?

That doesn't mean I would eat someone's pet bunny, and I'd wreak great havoc on anyone who ate mine, but I still don't rule out the species as a food source because some people make pets of 'em.

[proud2BlibKansan]

220. I think the reason that scene freaked me out

was the unemployment/poverty issues behind her reason to raise and sell those rabbits. I found it one of the saddest scenes in that movie. I believe we can assume that if she had not lost her job, she wouldn't have been slaughtering rabbits in her backyard. That was the point. I don't think Michael Moore was trying to condemn her for what she was doing or to gross us out, but to show what extremes folks have to go to to survive in a depressed economy.

[geniph]

121. It's a bit insensitive, but all mammals are potential food

well, we aren't supposed to eat the two-legged ones, and predators taste like shit, but really, rabbit is mother nature's fast food.

And don't call me some kind of cannibal! I don't eat any mammals, and haven't for more than 20 years.

[VirginiaDem]

125. Anybody else here have the following contradictions:

Were once vegetarian.
Have eaten rabbit.
Have eaten guinea pig.
Currently have pet guinea pig (and frog and sea monkeys).

For the record, I had BBQ guinea pig at a fiesta in Ecuador. They leave the head and feet on. I think I was in fact drinking Chilean red that night. P.S. For the record, guinea pigs come from the Andes and were always food and are considered a delicacy. P.P.S. For the record--it was nothing special.

[VirginiaDem]

127. Very interesting info on guinea pigs in the Andes...

http://www.pilotguides.com/destination_guide/south_america/ecuador_and_the_galapagos_islands/guinea_pig.php

"The guinea pig is native to the Andes, and whether fried or roasted, it’s a traditional dish known as cuy, which dates back at least fifteen centuries to pre-Incan times. It has continued to be such a popular meal throughout the ages that in colonial times Indian artisans enthusiastically painted pictures in churches of Christ tucking into guinea pig at the Last Supper."

[AlienGirl]

163. Am vegetarian

Have eaten rabbit (that we raised when I was a kid) and had rabbits as pets at the same time. Have also eaten chickens while keeping other chickens from the same clutch as pets. Have been hunting, know how to kill and dress and cook wild game, also know how to tan skins the lo-tech way and turn sinews into thread. I've never had guinea pig.

Tucker

[MadisonProgressive]

131. Jeffrey Dahmer and Ed Gein both started out this way!

[kwolf68]

140. True

While this kid gets the benefit of a doubt, it is a FACT that the way youngsters treat animals has a direct link to the way they treat people. The litany of serial killers and psychos who started off by slaughtering cats and dogs is too long to list. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill did a great study on this about 10 years ago that showed irrefutable proof that ANYONE who does ANYTHING to an animal involving pain and/or torture should have a record, case closed.

[MadisonProgressive]

164. And don't forget George W Bush*

He used to shove firecrackers down frogs throats and then let them hop away and KAPOW!!!

[TankLV]

203. Um - it wasn't their "throats" - try the "other end".

That's what I read.

But the rest of the story is true, unfortunately.

[MadisonProgressive]

204. What a prevert!

[DoNotRefill]

180. Wow...so my kosher butcher is really a serial killer?

eom...

[MadisonProgressive]

207. Does he butcher pets?

[DoNotRefill]

218. I don't think he has pets....

how can a butcher tell if the animal he's slaughtering is a pet or not? Look for a chip or tattoo, sure, but after that?

[livinginphotographs]

199. No he didn't.

Jeffrey Dahmer TORTURED and ABUSED animals.

This kid killed the guinea pig for food. There's a difference.

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with this from a moral standpoint (health issues, definitely). The only reason the meat-eaters gets upset is because this kid killed a "cute" animal as opposed to a cow or chicken or something.

Meat is meat. If you can't handle seeing where it comes from, don't eat it. :shrug:

[MadisonProgressive]

205. No, you are wrong.

There are laws against killing pets.

[Mills Street]

211. Nope.

There are laws against torturing them. Not killing them, if they are yours.

[MadisonProgressive]

212. Nope.

There are laws against killing pets - at least where I live.

Oh, and even if it's legal where you live, killing is torture unless you have them put to sleep humanely. Did the kid do that? I kinda doubt it.

[Mills Street]

221. Do you live where I live?

Madison, WI?

Cause if you do, you should check out the Wisconsin statutes on animal cruelty.

The main part where you are wrong is there is no distinguishing between pets and non pets. Animal cruelty is defines as maliciously torturing, abusing, mistreating or killing an animal with no purpose.

If you have a purpose, you get to kill them.

[MadisonProgressive]

223. Since you're from Madtown - should have guessed by the

'Mills Street', I will give in to your superior knowledge on this issue. I was, as usual, talking through my asshat. I still think there is no reason for this kid to kill animals like that. Doesn't his mommy feed him in the morning?

[Mills Street]

228. I agree with you in this case.

There is no reason here, it is just crazy. I just have no idea what this kid was thinking.

[livinginphotographs]

226. No, there's not.

If I decide to kill my cat, I could legally do it (not that I'd want to).

There are laws against animal cruelty, and as it's been stated over and over again in this thread, the difference between "pet" and "food" is a cultural thing, not an absolute. People eat guinea pigs in other countries. What makes it okay there and not okay here?

[uppityperson]

202. Butchering animals to eat or protesting bush/cheney?

I bet they ate pickles too. I've eaten pickles. You know what, I like to suck the juice out of dill pickles before I chomp them down. Will I become a torturer? Anyone ever see that old ('77ish) Saturday night live routine where they "proved" dimes cause cancer by implanting dimes into the bellies of mice who then developed tumors? (by the way, this was a joke, showing that proof of causation and conclusions developed were not always accurate). Yes, I'm old.

[MadisonProgressive]

206. Pickles aren't animals - try again

[uppityperson]

214. My comment was causation, not what is an animal. And a question aside

Please read my comments and what they reference again. People are saying that killing an animal means the person will grow up to kill people. My comment was one does not cause another.

And here's another question I have seriously thought about over the years. Why is it not ok to kill moving creatures (animals) for food and not non-moving but still living and feeling creatures (plants)? I have dealt with having to weed gardens, and murder trees, etc, and wondered this.

[kwolf68]

139. What a joke

“Life Skills Test?” That is arguably the most inane pile of bunk I have ever read. This child went to a place of business and purchased pets to kill and eat. What about this is a life skill? Why is that any different than him going home and slitting the throat of his trusted hunting dog and cooking it up under the guise of “life skills?”

[TankLV]

144. This is very strange indeed. Something is just plain wrong with that.

The way I see it, a PET STORE is an agreement to use the animals as a companion - a "PET".

This is just wrong.

Now, I used to buy rabbits at at the Broadway Market in Buffalo when I was a kid - my grandmother made a really good roasted rabbit - I still like rabbit - haven't had it in a long time, unfortunately.

Been evolving to more vegetables and non-animal protein as time goes by - but I'm an omnivore - always have been, always will be. It's extremely to be on a totally vegetarian diet for a diabetic.

Some people keep chickens for pets. I don't understand that either.

Think it's cruel to keep snakes, too, as pets - and to have to feed them live mice, etc. - it's just gross.

But this thing about buying a PET from a PET STORE to KILL and EAT is just NOT RIGHT somehow.

[AlienGirl]

215. Snakes should not be fed live food

Frozen, reheated mice and rats are safer. There is even a "snake sausage" available commercially. Most snakes can learn to recognize reheated food as food, and it avoids the risk of bites and infection, as well as the cruelty of live-feeding.

(The frozen whole rodents are generally killed by a blow to the head, which is faster than asphyxiation.)

Tucker

[DemBones DemBones]

151. Rabbit is delicious but I wouldn't care to eat a guinea pig.

The weird part of the story is that the boy is a hunter yet bought the animals for class. The only explanation I can think of is that part of the demonstration was how to kill small animals for food.

It's pretty easy to raise rabbits (or guinea pigs) as a protein source. You don't need much space for them and you know your meat comes from animals that were well fed and well treated, know whether they were ever given antibiotics, etc. But eventually you have to know how to kill them. And how to skin them and "dress them out." The killing part is what stops me from raising rabbits as food.

[Megahurtz]

208. OH MY GOD!!!

This is brutally disgusting!!!
His dad must be a real winner to teach him hunting in a time when we can just go to the grocery store and buy a steak.
I'm sure it was traumatizing to some of the other kids.:(

[uppityperson]

216. Read the article, and you're missing the point of many these posts

Those students who didn't want to watch got to go into an adjoining room.
It is a rural area where killing and eating game is fairly common (though not usually hunted in pet store).
The animals eated were food animals, are raised for food as well as pets. They can also be pets but rabbits and guinea pigs are food animals, as are cows and chickens.
Why is it ok to buy packaged plastic wrapped meat that has been raised in inhumane crowded conditions, slaughtered in terror while dripping on with feces while being hung by a back leg on a rack, rather than individually?
You may chose to not hunt, or not eat meat, but many people do eat meat and it should be necessary for each of us to face what is it we are eating, where it came from and how it got to your plate. The only way to get people to respect their food is really be involved with it.

[roguevalley]

209. oh christ. kill me now. please.

[98geoduck]

210. I knew the No Child Left Behind is underfunded, but this is Ridiculous

Next thing you know, school administrators will be asking their pupils to bring their dogs, cats, and ponies to lunch.

[jody]

213. Only vegetarians can protest the boy's actions. Meat eaters are guilty. n/