NYT: Gay Marriage Ban Backers Use Soc. Sec. as Cudgel(send letter to Rove)

[DeepModem Mom]

Backers of Gay Marriage Ban Use Social Security as Cudgel
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: January 25, 2005


WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 - A coalition of major conservative Christian groups is threatening to withhold support for President Bush's plans to remake Social Security unless Mr. Bush vigorously champions a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.

The move came as Senate Republicans vowed on Monday to reintroduce the proposed amendment, which failed in the Senate last year by a substantial margin. Party leaders, who left it off their list of priorities for the legislative year, said they had no immediate plans to bring it to the floor because they still lacked the votes for passage.

But the coalition that wrote the letter, known as the Arlington Group, is increasingly impatient.

In a confidential letter to Karl Rove, Mr. Bush's top political adviser, the group said it was disappointed with the White House's decision to put Social Security and other economic issues ahead of its paramount interest: opposition to same-sex marriage.

The letter, dated Jan. 18, pointed out that many social conservatives who voted for Mr. Bush because of his stance on social issues lack equivalent enthusiasm for changing the retirement system or other tax issues. And to pass to pass any sweeping changes, members of the group argue, Mr. Bush will need the support of every element of his coalition....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/25/politics/25marriage.html

[VegasWolf]

1. Good, let the xtians make themselves heard loud and clear so

that everyone will know of their influence.

[mtnester]

35. And then remove their tax exmpt status and see how fast they flee screamin

back to the sanctuary

[Charlie Brown]

2. Ooooh! The Big Tent's about to collapse! n/t

[msgadget]

3. Good, they must've read that Newsweek article.

Then there's the base of social conservatives that turned out in such large numbers on Election Day. They may be surprised to find that the social issues which figured so prominently in the 2004 campaign are absent from Bush's list of Big Things. In private, Bush rarely talks about abortion rights and gay marriage. "He doesn't even carry his family on abortion," says one family friend. "He'd probably lose a vote 3-to-1. And I bet he doesn't make one phone call on the constitutional amendment."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6831823/site/newsweek/">Window of Opportunity

[jfs1000]

4. What did they think?

I don't think I am smarter than everyone else on the other side, but if they thought for one minute Bush was going to stop gay marrigage and abortion, those people voting on those issues are idiots. The repubs have been running on an anti-abortion and anti-gay agenda for 25 years and done nothing.

We won't here a thing about gay marrigage and abortion until the mid-terms. You can be sure nothing will be done about it until then, and then the best thing for them politically is to be defeated.

Bush has political capital to spend, you better belirve that it will be spent on tax cuts, and benefit cuts.

But did they honestly believe that Bush was going to vehmently push a gay marriage ammendmant? Do they realy believe Roe vs. Wade will be overtunred in the next 15 years because Bush will put om a pro life judge?

I hope they voted for Bush for other reasons than those, because none of that has a chance in hell of passing.

All those Christian Conservatives just got punked.

[Charlie Brown]

5. You said it

these morons seem to think the Republicans can pull some kind of magic switch that will end abortions forever and make everyone strait, church-going citizens.

Even if 'Roe is overturned and the amendment passes, abortion will still be legal in 20 states, and the gay-rights movement will shift to unions.

These people are simply ignorant.

[msgadget]

6. Yes, obviously they believed.

And, yes, they may get punked. I believe he'll do what's necessary to push through his SS bill, even if it means pandering to the right again.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

8. Unfortunately, it's a winning issue for them

Look at last election. I actually think this is their strategy. Bush backs off an amendment until pushed to do so by "overwhelming numbers of Americans." It sucks, but how many more states will outlaw gay marriage next election?

[DeepModem Mom]

12. Thanks for posting, jfs -- and welcome to DU!

[RawMaterials]

33. They want to keep it around so it can be used in 2006 -08

but hey welcome to DU jfs1000 :hi: :yourock:

[Lexingtonian]

7. Hmmm...

I wonder whether we can arm them all with pitchforks and have them go after each other.

I can't believe the political miscalculation the Falwell crowd is making. It's easiest for Bush to couple two losing issues (and SS 'reform' is definitely headed that way) and have it all fall on their heads, politically. All he needs to do is lure them a little further to right under the thing and not look up until it all falls down.

Bush will happily settle for another major tax 'simplification' if those two things blow up, and the Republicans in Congress more or less have to give him that- in order to have anything at all to show for the year.

Frickin' morons.

[orpupilofnature57]

10. YOU GOT IT ( impeach kkkarl rove)

[Azathoth]

9. When you make a deal with the Devil...

the Devil is eventually going to come looking for his due.

Rove was patting himself on the back Nov. 2 for his decision to hop into bed with the fundies. Now he's dealing with people who are more extreme and uncompromising than * and Cheney are.

[Piperay]

11. Ah trouble in 'Paradise'

hehehe...looks like a feud in the 'family'. }(

[DRoseDARs]

13. So now gays will be indirectly blamed for "S.S. Crisis"? Isn't that nice?

:eyes:

[livvy]

14. Interesting read....

I was going to post this, but you beat me to it!

I thought this article was interesting for several reasons:

1. I don't understand how they can consider *'s Social Security plans even remotely acceptable, but apparently they do.
2. They would be willing to sacrifice Social Security for an amendment banning same-sex marriage. It's hard to believe that people really care that much about who marries who.
3. These groups may be beginning to see that a promise from * is meaningless. Their usefulness is over, and they are not amused.
4. * should have known better. When you play with the Piper, sometimes he likes to be paid, and this particular Piper is a persistent one.

This mis-administration doesn't care what, to whom, or how often they lie. Their agenda is self-centered and nothing else is important. Those of us who would like to see this mis-administration gone may have some surprising allies, some of whom we may not exactly welcome.

[The Zanti Regent]

15. Well, you got 59 million+ pinheads who think Jesus is coming next week

I wonder what they will do 10 years from now when Jesus ain't rapturing them and their Social Security is gone? I got a feeling a bunch of TV Preachers are gonna get pissed off because their "revenue streams" are down. Way down....

[Azathoth]

16. They'll blame the Democrats and the satanic lie-brals

These people aren't living in reality now, and they won't be in contact with reality in the future. If anything, the TV preachers will be making even more money in the future by explaining to their flocks how the evil Democrats managed to subvert Dubya's holy agenda.

[dusty64]

18. Believe it or not these

American Taliborgs care MUCH more about who loves who than whether they can ever retire without eating cat food, have affordable health and medical care, jobs, a decent standard of living, and not having to worry if their kids are gonna be sent into a criminal meat grinder. They are completely blinded by hatred of those evil gays and other groups and want to totally control ALL of us who do not march in lockstep with them. That is their ONLY agenda and will sacrifice everything else in order to achieve it. They are not to be pitied, but feared and fought against every step of the way, they ARE the enemy!

[AndyTiedye]

27. The Talibornagains Are Fine With Trashing Social Security

and every other social program. Then they can make all the poor
and elderly choose between converting to their religion or starving to death.

[Petrushka]

17. "In a confidential letter to Karl Rove,...", the NYT reports . . .

. . . confidentially?

:shrug:

[cthrumatrix]

19. it's a DISTRACTION.... again.

[GiovanniC]

20. I Don't Care If I Eat Cat Food When I'm Old!

And I don't care if thousands of Americans die in ill-advised elective wars!

And I don't care if my children or their children are smothered under an avalanche of national debt!

I don't care if this planet's environment gets completely burned to the ground, if people die in poverty on our own city streets, or if our foreign policy increases the amount and the intensity of the terrorists!

Just keep those queers from getting married.

It's important to have priorities, people.

[Soopercali]

21. I think they're blowing smoke, anyway.

I don't think they can deliver that kind of support for changing Social Security. I'd be amazed if even 25% of their membership supported privatization.

[Cats Against Frist]

22. Those little snot rags need to be put into time out

What a bunch of little fascist bitches. Not that I want to see social security re-made, but it seems wrong to me to have our already-corrupt-as-fuck government at the whim of a bunch of crazies. Can this many people in America have serious mental disorders???

[Ian David]

23. More excerpts

The members of the coalition that wrote the letter are some of Mr. Bush's most influential conservative Christian supporters, and include Dr. James C. Dobson of Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council, the Southern Baptist Convention, the American Family Association, Jerry Falwell and Paul Weyrich.

Several members of the group said that not long ago, many of their supporters were working or middle class, members of families that felt more allegiance to the Democratic Party because of programs like Social Security before gravitating to the Republican Party as it took up more cultural conservative issues over the last 20 years.

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, declined to talk about the letter, but said, "The enthusiasm to get behind his proposals is going to require that he get behind the issues that really motivated social conservative voters."

Asked to estimate the level of discontent with the White House among the group on a scale from one to 10, Mr. Perkins put it at 8.

[Plaid Adder]

24. Wow, that's kind of funny, when you think about the HRC.

The new HRC leadership got in major trouble with its donors for having told a NYT reporter that they would consider supporting Bush's SS agenda if it would include benefits for same-sex partners.

Funny to imagine Bush with one telephone receiver in each hand, listening to the HRC in one ear and Falwell in the other. "OK, sure, we'll work on getting same-sex partners covered...oh, shit! No, Mr. Falwell, no, I didn't mean that, I thought I was talking to...uh...say, how's the wife?"

Well, not funny, really. Pretty fucking sad, when you come to think about it.

I hope this Social Security thing is going to turn out to be his Waterloo. Nobody wants this except for him, Cheney, and the most rabid of the neocons.

We'll see what happens,

The Plaid Adder

[Ian David]

25. Now that I see the whole picture, HRC's plan is brilliant

At first, I was FURIOUS with HRC for their deal with Bush.

But now that I see what the fundies are trying to do... it looks more like a proton and an anti-proton colliding and canceling each other out.

Now, when we open the box, will Bill Frist's cat still be alive?

[ashmanonar]

31. no...

i could see CHENEY doing that...bush will be out back clearing brush.

[freestyle]

26. They are getting what all whores get....

fucked. Wedge issues only work when they are never resolved, so the strongly anti-abortion and anti-gay voters should expect abortion to remain legal and marriage equality to happen. The conservative politicians care about having the wedge issues to use to win office far more than they actually care about "winning" on those issues. In their few honest moments, they know they can't win. The momentum flows in the direction of freedom.

[Geek_Girl]

28. As Nelson on the Simpsons would say

HAHA !!!!!!!!!!!

[yellowcanine]

29. And as the "Church Lady" on SNL would say, "Well, isn't that special?"

[MGKrebs]

30. My regular request to ask people to use

"Social Security Insurance" when referring to...well, Social Security Insurance. I think that many people have forgotten that SSI is an insurance plan.

I think it's important for people to realize that they are contemplating giving up that insurance, and trading it for a no-guarantee investment plan. Well, it does have one guarantee, it will make many brokers and brokerage houses wealthy beyond comprehension. JP Morgan lives again!

[davidinalameda]

32. what is the official conservative Christian stance on social security?

where is this mentioned in the bible or are these groups just making it up as they go along

[VegasWolf]

34. Revelations 44:33:22.1.0.3.0 says explicitly "Thou shall not worry

thy head about social security because the rapture will
happen before the money runs dry."

[chomskysright]

36. In WA Times also: Bush back-pedaling

This is good for now he will be caught in the crosshairs re: not being able to get conservative support for SS as he won't put this forward as it won't win:

it appears to be a win-win for progressives: he's finally getting what he deserves by sleeping w/ these people.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050125-101701-8597r.htm

Bush backpedal on marriage irks right


By Ralph Z. Hallow
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Some social conservatives are angry with President Bush for saying a proposed constitutional ban on same-sex "marriage" lacks the requisite votes for approval in the Senate.
Mr. Bush has acknowledged no such obstacle for his proposal to add personal investment accounts to the Social Security program, even though that plan also lacks support among some Republican lawmakers.
"Are the votes there for privatizing Social Security?" asked Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council.

[Mountainman]

37. What dimwits. They will support getting screwed if Bush stays anti gay

These fools would support killing their first born as long as gays are forced to stay in the closet.