University Tells Driver to Remove Magnet

[kskiska]

EUGENE, Ore. (AP) - The University of Oregon is defending its decision to tell one of its delivery drivers to remove a ``Support Our Troops'' magnet from the state-owned truck he uses at work.

Oregon law prohibits personal messages on state-owned vehicles, regardless of the context.

Several months ago, driver Pete Baker put the yellow ribbon magnet on the back of the state truck.

(snip)

University President Dave Frohnmayer said Tuesday that Baker will face no disciplinary action, and added that he was upset that the incident has led people to question the patriotism of the university.

``The excuse that some people take in events like this to question the patriotism of other Americans is frankly below the belt,'' he said.

more…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4756352,00.html

[leQ]

1. as much respect as i have for oregon, this is just wrong. (eom)

.

[Renew Deal]

2. It's a state owned vehicle.

They don't want to have to determine what's appropriate and not appropriate. It's actually quite fair.

[liberalhistorian]

4. I agree, I don't see what the hell

the problem is at all, and I don't understand why he can't have something that just expresses support for those having to endure fighting in a country 15,000 miles from their homes, in often hellish conditions.

[420inTN]

20. What if the had an "Abortion is Murder" magnet?

or a "God is my co-pilot" magnet/sticker?

[Dr Fate]

11. How about a "I do NOT support the War" decal??

Would that be okay too?

[CreekDog]

27. No, it's not wrong...think through what you're saying

If the state allows one message, then they have to allow others.

If someone put on a magnet that said "Bring the Troops Home" or "Hillary is stupid" or whatever, the state would have to allow them if they allowed the "Support our troops".

Do people think these things through?!

[trogdor]

38. If it's my vehicle...

...the only bumperstickers, magnets, etc., that will go on them will be the ones I have put there. Period.

[aikido15]

3. Good...

Support the troops by protesting the war, not with a stupid magnet on your car! I am so sick of those things!

It was the policy of the university, nothing personal, so they were correct in telling him to remove it, and again...GOOD! One less car magnet!

[liberalhistorian]

5. Really? And what would have been

your reaction had it been a protest or anti-war or anti-Bush sticker that they'd told him to remove? Something tells me it'd be a little bit different.

[gaia_gardener]

6. Mine wouldn't be

free speech is great for your own vehicle. If it a vehicle owned by someone else, it's inappropriate to use it to make any political statements.

[tkmorris]

8. I can't speak for Akido but

my reaction would have been exactly the same. I would have attempted to find out if this policy was applied indiscrimanately across the political spectrum, but if it was I'd support it.

[TankLV]

13. In what possible way could you conclude that from ANYONE's statements?

That is utter bullshit and you should be ashamed of falsly accusing others of the way YOU think.

ANY personal statements, regardless what they were, would not be approved of - by anyone!

What part of that don't you understand.

But I see you are just trying to be argumentative as usual by making your usual ridiculuous accusations.

[aikido15]

18. Thanks...

I wasn't even going to respond, I felt an argument being picked.

[AzDar]

30. Hear, hear....Jeez, it's the LAW..end of freakin' story!!!! n/t

[liberalhistorian]

43. And please enlighten me

as to what my "usual ridiculous accusations" are and how I'm "argumentative as usual?" I was asking a simple question and not being at all accusatory. You don't need to be so goddamned nasty, thank you very much.

[Willy Lee]

42. Same response.

State vehicle shoudl have NO propoganda on it, regardless of yoru veiws. Im my opinion.

[onecent]

9. I, too, am sick of these little magnets. probably the only thing

they own or have contributed to ACTUALLY support the troops is their damn magnet.

I hope they bought the genuine ones, and not the ones that Walmart is making another billion dollars from.

[MADem]

17. Those fucking yellow ribbons may as well say

...support slave labor in China, because that is all people are doing when they buy the stupid things.

If you really want to support the troops, buy the poor bastards at Walter Reed a phone card, because our cheapass government won't spend the cash to install a couple of phone jacks and phones, and pay fifty bucks a month per line to allow kids to make unlimited calls.

Of course, then you'd have to buy a sticker that said "I supported the troops by buying the injured at Walter Reed a lousy phone card" because ya just can't do this sort of thing and not TRUMPET it to all who see your vehicle. That's what this shit is really about.

I apologize to anyone if I seem excessively snarky. I think the state has the right to decide what goes on their vehicles. And I think they were right to tell the guy to remove it, just as they'd be right to tell him to remove any other personal or political statement. If he feels so jazzed about it, buy a fucking tee shirt, then he doesn't have to be hanging around his state vehicle to get "credit" for his sentiments. Hell, if he were a real troop supporter, he'd get his ass down to the recruiting station....

[BrotherBuzz]

19. I believe your snarkiness is on target!

:thumbsup:

[Mad_Dem_X]

32. Bravo! Agree 100%

I hate those damn magnets anyway. I always feel like asking the people that have them, "What exactly have YOU done to support the troops?"

[0007]

37. Good rant!

Five Star Performance

[RandomKoolzip]

7. That's a good decision.

If the truck carried a magnet that said "Impeach Bush," and the UofO told the driver to remove it, I'd think it was okay too. The state determines what messages their vehicles carrry, and if the law prohibits personal messages, then this driver is breaking the law.

Simple as that.

[heidler1]

12. Had the message been "Support our troops bring them home now".

I would of liked it, but I tend to believe that most of those with the standard message "support our Troops" were in favor of the war and were therefore instrumental in getting them over there in the first place so they seem disingenuous to me.

[RandomKoolzip]

16. Either way, the driver is wrong.

If the law prohibits personal messages on state vehicles, then he broke the law. This is one of those rare black-and-white issues.

[6000eliot]

10. Those magnets should say "Support Our President"

Because they have nothing to do with support for troops. Fuck the bumper sticker! Give the kids some body armor. Or better yet, BRING THEM HOME!

[FM Arouet666]

14. I agree with removal of the magnet

Simply not the place for personal expression. He is free to have a magnet on his own vehicle, but the rules are clear on personal messages on state-owned vehicles.

As for the patriotism of the university, it is incorrect to assume that they lack patriotism simply because they are following the rules. By extension, those who do not have magnets, are they unpatriotic?

A patriot does not vote for Bush and opposes the war in Iraq, a war for control of oil. A patriot does not support the troops by supporting the local magnet company, or by sticking a magnet on a giant gas guzzling SUV.

The argument that the university is unpatriotic because it disallows the placement of a ribbon magnet is akin to the GOP argument that if you are against the war you are unpatriotic.

[Maat]

15. I completely agree...

if the policy is applied across the board, it is fair and appropriate. I would never have thought of putting a bumpersticker or magnet on a county vehicle. Now, as to my own personal vehicle, it's decorated with bumperstickers like you wouldn't believe.


I have to admit a bias, though. I live in a very red pocket in a blue state (California), and I find those magnetic 'support the troops' things to be disgusting ... 'cause, around here, it's just a code phrase, meaning 'I'm a Bushie - and I have no regrets about supporting an idiot who send several thousand American young adults to their death.' I say several thousand, because I believe that this Administration has consistently lied about how many American citizens AND residents have died as a result of this Iraq War, which was illegal, immoral, and unnecessary. Sorry. EOR.

[darkism]

21. Good. Screw the stupid magnets.

Not to mention that it's not his truck to defile.

[keopeli]

22. There's a little bit of true democracy that's alive and well in the West

Washington has their vote counting system in order.
Oregon knows the difference between patriotism and fairness.
CA, OR and WA had pockets of freedom for a month as many of my gay friends were able to get married.
WA has an all female national representation and governorship, and the first Asian governor.

Then there's Arnold...uh...boy...I did say a "little bit", didn't I?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

23. How about a state office or desk?

Are you saying you can't have anything political at your desk as well?

[LostinVA]

24. In Most States You Can't

NC State workers can't have anything like that on their desk, or wear campaign buttons. On their own time? Sure. VA state employees also can't do this. Nor can Federal employees. I think it's fair -- you're working for the STATE, ie all citizens of the state. It's inappropriate. I told an employee of mine she had to take the Kerry/Edwards button off of her cubicle.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

28. Where do you draw the line?

Political speech? Can you display a flag?

[LostinVA]

40. Again, in most states NO.

Re: Political speech: Maybe in the break room, but no, not at your desk. Not with public citizens you interact with via your job. After the invasion of Poland... err... Iraq, alot of coworker Freepers put up American flags. I had a problem with it, but didn't say anything. Finally, a REPUBLICAN manager who is a MAJOR Bushie, told them to take them down: against State law. (I know he's a major Bushie because I know someone who is related to him). And yes, you're right: other State employees ARE the public. Do what you want on your own time, but not at work. I think this is very sensible: these are STATE employees, and many managers are appointed by elected officials or are themselves elected officials. You must be overboard. The same reason why a vendor can't take State employees who purchase stuff to lunch: it doesn't look right. Kickbacks.

As a State employee, you work for the public, not the Governor, or whomever. Just like Federal employees are supposed to be working for the citizens of the US. NOT Clinton, or Bush, or Reagan, or whomever. That's why there is a Federal law about this.

But, I'm been reading your posts for a while, so I'm waiting for an interesting reply.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

44. The flag can't be against the law

Sorry, but that's crap. It OUR flag. Having the flag at your desk needs to be OK under any circumstances.

[sniffa]

49. sniff sniff

do you smeLL that?

[oldcoot]

36. There is a difference between a desk and a vehicle

The desk is not always visible to the public while a university vehicle is. I can honestly see why the state has a law prohibiting political bumper stickers and magnets on a state-owned vehicle because any bumper sticker or magnet on a state-owned car or truck might be interpreted as the state endorsing a particular viewpoint. The university was correct in telling Baker to remove the magnet.

Baker is free to put whatever magnets or bumper stickers he wants on his own cars.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

39. Not really

Remember, the public includes your coworkers. Have we become so unwilling to offend one another that I can't even have a flag on my desk?

[democracyindanger]

47. You drive your desk from neighborhood to neighboorhood?

That's some desk.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

46. But I thought conservatives believed people were hired at will and

employers are concerned about lawsuits from same such...please be consistent in your talking points.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

48. I have no idea what conservatives think

And I'm not using talking points dearie, I'm having a conversation. In any case, I don't believe the American flag violates any rule and it shouldn't either.

[BiggJawn]

25. Bet the Rushbots are frothing over this...

Wonder why it wasn't Nazi Pat's or Joe-the-Lori-Killer's lead-off story last night?

And if it had been one of those "(man)+(woman)=Marriage" stickers? Would WE be so quick to defend his "right" to stick it on his employer's vehicle?

[n2doc]

26. Missing the Point

It was a STATE OWNED TRUCK! He had no right to modify it in any way, unless approved by the agency that owned the truck. How would any of you like it if you let someone use your car/truck and it came back with a new sticker?
These things also have been shown to damage the paint of cars under some conditions (see thread elsewhere) so there is a practical reason as well.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

29. No, the point is, it would not have been several months if it

was an anti-war sticker or magnet... it would have been several minutes before someone told him to lose it.

[GregW]

31. Actually ... it probably would have lasted longer if it was anti-war!

This is Eugene after all ...

Where I live ...

And we hate war ...

Click here to see how much

[jasop]

33. Great Picture!

:yourock:

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

51. I know, but you know that if it was anti-war, some nutjob would

be onto the TV stations immediately.

[CabalPowered]

34. As a recent Duck graduate, this is hypocritical...

The trucks for the recycling program have a variety of stickers on them. If we're going to follow the rules, there should be equal application.

[No Exit]

35. And thus University President Frohnmayer falls into the trap

that each and every one of those stickers creates. Not that he could avoid it.

If you don't publicly SAY "support our troops", then it is ASSUMED that you DON'T support our troops. That is an illogical assumption. But this entire administration is built on illogical assumptions.

And Bush insists on trying to make himself synonymous with "our troops". In fact, this AWOL ex-guardsman is the polar opposite of any one of our honest soldiers.

No one could have more support for our troops than those who want to bring them home so they can LIVE.

How about a ribbon that says, "Support our troops--impeach Bush".

[Mountainman]

41. Putting a support the troops sign on your car is a hollow statement if

you don't do anything to really support them.

You could donate to an organization that sends needed items to the troops or you could send them yourselves. You could write to them or pay for a phone card for them.

You could petition the government to end the war and send the troops home sooner.

But just the act of putting a magnet on your car does nothing but help you get the approval of others like you, it does nothing for the troops.

[progressivebydesign]

45. The law is the law.. there were more magnets on there than reported here..

I saw a blurb on the regional news.. he also had GOD BLESS AMERICA on there, too. It is a State owned piece of property, and it is the law. Regardless of the content. Unfortunately, you have to disallow all of them, or allow all of them. The latter being too risky, given the strange concoction of humans living on this planet. UO was right, the guy can put 100 stickers and magnets on his car.. it's HIS property. The State vehicle is not. It's like painting a mural on the side of the Oregon State Capitol, ya can't.

[geniph]

50. No private messages on state-owned vehicles

If it's a consistent policy and they enforce it consistently, then what's the beef? Any organization has the right to do this with their vehicles, which represent them in the public eye.