Two Florida Boys Charged With a Felony for Violent Stick Figure Drawings

[Tsiyu]

OCALA, Fla. (AP) - Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs.
The 9- and 10-year-old boys were arrested Monday and charged with making a written threat to kill or harm another person. They were also suspended from school.

One drawing showed the two boys standing on either side of the other boy and "holding knives pointed through" his body, according to a police report. The figures were identified by written names or initials.

Another drawing showed a stick figure hanging, tears falling from his eyes, with two other stick figures standing below him. Other pieces of scrap paper listed misspelled profanities and the initials of the boy who was allegedly threatened.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB4D0F0F4E.html

[aikido15]

1. Little..

shits! Next it will the real thing. Teach our kids to kill with honor, GO ARMY!

[Occulus]

13. uh...

there's something called 'taste'....

maybe it's 'tact'....

[rwenos]

2. You Gotta Be Kidding

There's got to be something more to this. Drawings?

[Rowdyboy]

3. What can you say? Of course you must allow Young Republicans

a chance to express themselves artistically.

These children are simply exhibiting the "family values" they were raised with. Isn't that in the Constitution?

[rawtribe]

4. The death monkey

kills 100K and :shrug:

Draw a stick figure and go to jail.....

Fucking nuts!

[LSdemocrat]

5. We're prosecuting 9 and 10 year old kids now? For drawings?

What the hell is wrong with this country?

[NYC]

8. Felony charges.

Pretty hard to believe.

[KDLarsen]

27. You don't even have to do the drawings..

.. a law was passed a while ago, that allowed for people to be found guilty of a crime, EVEN if they did nothing to promote/commit the crime. In other words, if you talk about overturning the government - perhaps even draw up some plans or ideas on how to do it - then you can be arrested & jailed for conspiracy to overturn the government.

[d.l.Green]

58. Ummm... what do you think we are trying to do HERE? Oops...n/t

[youngdem]

87. See you in Cuba...

Save me a little place to rest my head:)

[Mr_Spock]

101. See you in Cuba - hahahahahahahaha!!

That's hilarious! Fuckin' gestapo here would probably do it too!!

[pinniped]

6. The things I used to doodle in school would land me in Gitmo...

with the new fuhrer running this country to shit.

[w13rd0]

9. No joke...

...and gee, this has to put a scare into the political cartoonists out there. What would drawing Bush as Napoleon at Waterloo get you? Torture and death? Or how about General Rumsferatu Custard? Do they really think kids haven't always done this? Heck, anyone familiar with some ancient CAVE PAINTINGS? Let's draw our victory over our enemy/prey... I'd really have to have more to go on. Wanting another classmate dead...certainly not appropriate or acceptable, but not unexpected. Oh wait, it's a "cry for help". Yeah, felony charges...THANKS FOR THE HELP...

[tblue37]

61. A pro-Bush political cartoonist

got a visit from the FBI last year for one of his cartoons. It was aparody of the famous close-up photo of a Vietnamese general shooting a VC POW in the head. The cartoonist replaced the general with a thuggish character labeled "Politics," and had him shooting * in the head. The idea was that political attacks against * were an attempt to "murder" him, and that they were as unjust and vicious as the summary execution of a POW by a Vietnamese general. Nevertheless, the FBI investigated the cartoon.

BTW, I just edited this message to remove *'s name and two words beginning with "d" and "t," just in case some overeager FBI agent is running Google searches for those two words in the same posting with the chimp's name or title, or to locate his name in the same message with words like "shooting" or "murder." I sure don't want an FBI visit!

It's amazing, but I am not joking. I actually just self-censored harmless descriptive words for fear of government harassment.

Chilling, isn't it?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

72. It was Michael Ramirez, So Cal's resident racist on the LA Times

editorial board....couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

[ronnykmarshall]

80. I can't stand Ramirez.

I got a 1am call from a druken freeper when one of my letters slamming Ramirez was printed in the LA Times.

[mrbassman03]

18. Yeah... I drew some crazy stuff...

Nothing serious, just stuff to take my mind off the drudgery...

[okoboji]

7. what would

the charges if someone plays Hangman?

[IMayBeWrongBut]

10. I know this isn't really relavent

But whenever I hear about kids drawing stick people violence, I can't help but think of this site.

http://www.stickdeath.com

Disclaimer: Some people may find the site offensive...

[genieroze]

11. Some of my groups

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PAZT
Parents Against Zero Tolerance
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurChildrenLeftBehind/
Special Education Help
www.endzerotolerance.com
http://ztnightmares.com/index.htm
A non partisan web site. We are a group who
is for kids getting educated not castrated.
We have people from the religious right to
the liberal left, for the most part, in agreement.

[tkmorris]

12. You know.........

I don't want to seem contrarian here but I would imagine that the target of these two little darling cartoonists was terrified by the stuff they were doing. Normally this sort of brutal meanness goes unnoticed at public schools, and I would bet that they have been tormenting this kid for quite some time already.

The fact that it was noticed and acted upon I applaud. Felony charges and handcuffs seem a bit much of course but I expect that this was done in an attempt to impress upon the two bullies that their actions were serious and couldn't be passed off with a casual "we were just kidding!" defense. It also is likely that this is not the first time these two have been reprimanded for this sort of behavior and someone in authority deemed it prudent to take matters a bit further.

In the end these two will likely get suspended for a week and remember their visit to the police station, nothing more.

[LeftyMom]

14. While I don't excuse thier behavior

This situation could be handled by the school and the parents. There is no need to involve the police in a situation involving fairly typical behavior for prepubescent boys.

[TankLV]

16. "fairly typical behavior for prepubescent boys"?

Not any that I've ever known?

Just what kind of people do you hang out with or know who do this sort of thing.

I know ZERO.

ALL of my friend, aquaintences and associates at work know ZERO.

Your statement is pure bullshit.

And if what you believe is true, then those monsters are getting exactly what they deserve. I certainly hope you get a taste of that "typical" behaviour you are excusing! After all, you wouldn't mind being on the receiving end, so you should support my hopes for you and your family!

Some pretty amazing excuse-making going on here!

Seems like pretty seriously dangerous behavior being exhibited by these monsters - the minimum should be controlled, forced therepy sessions with a good therepist for a long time.

[LeftyMom]

17. Lets see

They drew some pictures of someone they didn't like being hurt, and threw a bit of profanity in for spice. Not that unusual amongst the boys I went to school with, and so far none of them have turned out to be axe murderers. Actually, most of them are well-adjusted and have met with some success in the larger world. Drawing violent images is a fairly typical thing for children (boys especially) struggling to adapt to a violent world. It does bear watching as it's sometimes an indicator of further problems, such as a violent home life, but it's hardly a criminal offense.

A police response woud be appropriate if they had made a threat and there was a legitimate concern they might carry it out (children make threats they don't mean out of frustration.)

I'm not saying that I have no sympathy for the bullied child. I suffered more than my fair share of bullying in school and wish it dealt with better. However, treating little boys like criminals for drawing some stick figures is a rather disproportionate resonse, to put it mildly.

Unless there's a whole lot more to this story (certainly possible, since the school can't really say thier side for privacy reasons) this situation is pretty fucked up.

[TankLV]

20. Again, it is NOT TYPICAL! Only in YOUR world.

This is NOT TYPICAL behavior.

I know of NOBODY who does this, neither does anyone I know or was ever aquainted with.

Stop spreading the bullshit!

THIS IS NOT TYPICAL, COMMON OR NORMAL BEHAVIOR!

Don't you dare try to say it is so! IT IS NOT!

These are seriously sick budding monsters!

[LeftyMom]

22. It's typical

Either that or half the boys I've ever known and most all of the ones I went to elementary school with were mentally ill but they all got better on thier own, which seems a bit unlikely.

Just because you don't know about a behavior doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Judging by your reaction (which, to be honest, seens a bit hysterical) I understand why no young man has ever revealed the more violent thoughts that run through his head to you. If you've never seen little boys doodling guns and knives and bombs and shit you either don't have much experience with young boys or you've mastered the art of ignoring that which disturbs you.

[TankLV]

26. I and EVERYONE I KNOW has never seen it. It's not just me.

EVERYONE - and they all have kids in school.

And I have lived in many places, and these people I know live in more locations than I can remember.

I have never know or met ANYONE who has had such abnormal violent thoughts that they had to reveal to ANYONE I KNOW, not just "me".

Problems with Drugs? Yes.
Problems with sex? Yes.
Almost all problems connected with growing up in this day and age.

But such violent drawings and expressions? NEVER.

If that is your own personal experience, you have my sincerest sympathy.

But don't go around claiming it is normal for everyone's experience when you are in a small minority.

But to especially claim it is "normal" behaviour just doesn't add up.

Like I have said, and you have admitted - this is a cry for help for very disturbing behavior.

I'd be interested to see some statistics on this. For if it is as you claim, then I and everyone I know has been extremely fortunate and protected. But I doubt that I am that exceptionally sheltered.

[saigon68]

30. They sound like Potential recruits to the Marines CA 2013

They can then kill some Rag-Head Trash--

Hoo Rah.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

44. Oh, please....give me a break. You want to keep kids from making

...drawings depicting certain acts?

Fine...tell the television industry to stop showing extremely graphic scenes in shows that kids are most likely to watch between the hours of 3:00 pm and 9:00 pm. That should include any and all violent cartoons as well as commercials.

Additionally, tell the game industry to stop making and/or selling games that graphically depict extremely violent acts of killing and maiming.

Better yet, let's start arresting anyone in the two industries above that participate in making the telivision shows and games as previously described, and arrest anyone who would sponsor the same.

And yes, when I was going to elementary, middle, and high school, I saw drawings like those described in the story, EVERY single day. And it was very far from being a small minority of kids that did this sort of thing.

[GiovanniC]

45. When I Was In School Not TOO Long Ago

All through elementary and junior high school, this stuff went on all the time. I went to the principal's office over it once. Most of my friends did too at one point or another, and we were FAR from the "bad apples" of the school.

I also have two sons, and the sorts of things boys that age (around 8-10) will say and do would probably completely blow your mind if you honestly think that violent drawings are unusual.

It's fairly typical behavior for boys of that age.

[leesa]

50. You live in a monastery or something? If you think this is felony behavior

then you have some problems. Perhaps there is more to the story.

[txaslftist]

62. Gotta say fairly typical stuff I saw growing up in school, too.

Bullies are an ugly reality of growing up; usually they grow up (and out of bullying) too.

Do we really need to be saddling 10 year olds with felony records? I mean, granted, with that attitude they'll probably be republicans so it's good they can't vote, but they might actually grow up to be decent people.

Malcolm X was little better than a thug hoodlum until he found God in prison, then became a major leader and reformer.

Hell, ten-year-olds don't even know what sex is (at least I didn't). Hard to believe we're willing to treat them as if they are adults in the criminal justice system.

Okay, philosophical stuff aside, what happens to these malicious young pencillers later? They get labelled as felons at the ripe age of 10, they'll be under juvenile supervision until they turn 18, and probably spend some time in juvie. In juvie they'll learn very quickly what it means to really be tough (or they'll learn very quickly what it means to be victims).

And now you've taken two kids with a fairly normal shot at growing up into fairly normal people and you've created two hardened felons. Which you can then use to justify your original classification of them as hardened felons.

These two idiots need a box on the ear, a few days cleaning up the schoolyard and to write: "I will not be mean to other kids" a few hundred times on the blackboard. Anything else is both unjust and counterproductive.

[uncle ray]

73. are you a mind reader?

have you conversed with everyone you know about this subject? you have no way of knowing that this "NEVER" happens witht he "people you know".

[Tacos al Carbon]

77. Maybe it's your world that's weird and atypical

Yup ... I'm sure that no one that you know has ever expressed violent thoughts ... sure.

Sounds like perfectly typical ... and usually harmless ... behavior to me.

Next on Fox: Kids sent off to San Quentin for limerick about teacher's ugly demise.

Sheesh.

[w13rd0]

102. Where does this Utopia exist....

....so I might move there? No one is saying it's NORMAL, they are saying it's not surprising. And it's not uncommon. So yes, you are exceptionally sheltered.

[alphafemale]

33. "Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys" as just one example

Kids drew themselves as super heroes visiting violent revenge upon...well...a one-legged nun.
How twisted does that sound?

But it was a great movie.

And I'd also be willing to bet the "stick figure" was the Bully the other two were seeking a way to find even an imaginary victory over.

[AverageJoe]

39. Yes, it's typical eom

[mordarlar]

24. like leftymom i am a mother and yes some children express frustration...

in their drawings. Most do not have or develop "monstrous" BEHAVIOR. Some children are in fact mentally ill and need help but this is the exception not the rule. For these children the pictures are a symptom of a problem. It is not the problem itself.

LABELING a child for what is most likely innocent behavior WILL cause problems.

[d.l.Green]

64. You got that right! I remember as a child in Catholic school how

often the punishments meted out were way over the top for the actions that precipitated them. I think that did more to incite illicit behavior than reasonable and thoughtful guidance. If there's not much more to this story, this will definitely screw these kids up not only from the charges but the experiences.

Think about being a child that age and being really arrested! How do you think that this child will grow up watching others getting away with crimes that are physically harmful to others? These scenarios on the fictional TV police shows are par for the course. This has got to skew one's judgment and guarantee a life of misery. These kids will be scarred for life! And for some drawings!

[AngryOldDem]

51. Oh bullshit

I can recall much, much worse being drawn by bored kids in class and acted out on the playground 35 years ago.

If anything, it shows that young kids cannot adequately process the images they see from movies, toys, and TV. They cannot distinguish cartoon violence or fantasy violence from real violence. It also shows how quick adults are to overreact, rather than taking a step back and calmly and rationally deciding how best to deal with such stuff.

There is no indication WHATSOEVER that these kids are pathological or sociopathological. They're just kids who need to be shown what is appropriate and what is not.

This is best handled between the parents and the school. Getting the law involved is just plain -- dare I say it -- overkill and preposterous.

Calm down. I don't think we have two budding Jeffrey Dahmers or Ted Bundys on our hands.

[patcox2]

69. Its is typical, your world must be imaginary.

I am daring to say it, because it is real.

[patcox2]

71. When school administrators and cops join forces, stupidity has no limits

Its true, when you combine the mindset of a school administrator with the approach of a cop, there is no limit whatsoever to the level of stupidity which can be reached.

[AngryOldDem]

83. Believe me, pal, you hit the nail right on the head

I'm dealing with one such administrator at my son's school this year and I have had it.

[kath]

103. Wow, I'd like to take that statement and frame it!!

sooooo well said, patcox!

[TalkingDog]

74. TankLV

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

I've taught this level of children and yes, these kinds of drawings are not rare (but statistically speaking not common). Out of a typical 25 child class room 2 or 3 boys would generally have some sort of violent imagery. So on average 10 to 15%. People exploding, being run over by their souped-up dragsters, zombies gutting them....yep...exploring the dark side and dark thoughts is a fairly healty way to come to terms with violent feelings and feelings of powerlessness.

You should give it a try.

[DrGonzoLives]

91. Well, Tank

Why don't we just have you decide who all the little monsters are at a young age so we can lock them up for life?

Hey, who cares if we have a police state, as long as you agree with what they do, right? :eyes:

[Bo]

106. What school did you go to Tank?

I went to all male Catholic schools and this stuff seems TAME by comparison of what we did.

[Auntie Bush]

57. Well then why was it OK for our president to blow up frogs with

firecrackers? Isn't that more violent than drawing pictures? lol

Sorry...couldn't resist the comparison. Yes, the kids need to be punished severely but in the control and the school and parents....not the police. I guess it is OK though if you live in a police state. Tell me again...where do we live?

[shugah]

82. how about the kids that were targeted?

most of the bullies you knew in school grew up to be normal, well-adjusted, non-axe murderers. that's wonderful... i guess. how do you suppose life has gone for the victims they were drawing violent pictures of and terrorizing?

having said that- i do agree with the poster that says this is NOT typical. yes, i do believe that children, particularly boys, will doodle pictures depicting violence or violent concepts from time to time. when it becomes obsessive, or depicts specific violence against specific individuals, it is not harmless and needs to be addressed.

arresting 9 year olds on felony charges? probably not the best way to deal with bullies, because it is, in effect, bullying. however, i would venture a guess that this picture drawing incident is not the first time these kids have targeted and terrorized peers. if all schools adopt zero tolerance for bullying , and actively work, at all levels within the school system to achieve it, incidents like this would not occur.

[henrik larssonisking]

36. stick men

as someone who was once a 8 year old boy, i gotta say i remember drawing stick figures fighting each other as did just about every kid i know of. I guess the next thing will be the banning of GI JOE.

[lostnfound]

42. Felonies should be for murder, rape, grand larceny, and treason

(had to throw the last one in to include the Bushites)

Not for drawing ANYTHING.

[HuffleClaw]

84. so, you respond with threats of your own ?

wow. that really is adult behavior alright. ever heard of leading by example ?

[AverageJoe]

37. I couldn't agree more

The teacher should have sent them to the principal, who should have read them the riot act and called their parents. If they are otherwise bothering the other boy, then that behavior should also be addressed, perhaps with a suspension. Case closed.

This is beyond the pale.

[SemperEadem]

15. Right before Christmas

the grandson of one of my mother-in-law's friends kissed his mother good-night and went upstairs and hung himself. His mother found him the next morning. The note he left said that he couldn't face going to school another day and being mercilessly teased and no one would take his torment seriously--everyone told him that they were just kids and it wasn't as bad as he was making it out to be.

I think that tormenters should be handcuffed and arrested, even if they are a bunch of 10 yr old 4th graders. 'Kids being kids' can no longer be the excuse to ignore being children being terrorized by other children.

[LeftyMom]

23. I'm sorry for your loss nt

nt

[onenote]

35. what we don't know

is whether these kids were "bullies" or whether they were victims of "bullies" drawing pictures representing their revenge fantasy. Given that they were special ed students, I could imagine that they had been the victims of harassing behavior and the drawings were motivated by that. Just speculating at this point however...

onenote

[Toots]

63. Do you think a nine year old knows the difference between a felony

or a misdemeanor? Or even what a felony is? This is completely ridiculous. I do agree with the rest of your post though.

[SmokingJacket]

92. If handcuffs become no big deal at nine...

then what?

If they're really harrassing another kid, and not fooling around here, they should be punished -- suspension, no recess, extra homework, whatever -- and maybe be scheduled for weekly meetings with a counsellor.

But arresting a nine-year-old is NUTS. Say it doesn't work, then what? Chain-gang?

[neuvocat]

19. This is the government the freepers feared

and now they have the guilt of their burdens slowly beginning to crush them for this is what they have wrought.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. Welp, There Goes Another Two Future Voters

You all know that the lifetime voting ban for felons was a Jim Crow law, right?

[GetTheRightVote]

25. First, this is not good to see but should be handle by professionals not

police who only have one answer to such drawings, just because these kids are drawing it does not mean they will act on their thoughts to begin with otherwise there are many men who have committed affairs without the other woman knowing it.

The parents and school authorities should look into it and probably get help with doctors and such for the two children. The meer ideal that so many people were involved in the process would get these children to rethink their actions/deeds towards this other child.

:kick:

[LizW]

46. It's the law in our state that if a child in school makes a verbal threat

to kill someone, the police MUST be called. This happened to my son last year in third grade. He has a good friend who he plays with all the time, but sometimes, as boys do, they get in disagreements. The friend said in a moment of anger that he was going to kill my son, other children heard it and told adults, and next thing we knew, the police were there counseling everyone.

These kids were in third grade, and it was kind of silly, but I understand why they have to do this. A student killed a classmate in our high school a couple of years ago, and it turned out that if adults had known about the trouble between the two boys earlier, it might have been prevented.

[LynnTheDem]

28. Don't those kids have computers???

If they needed an outlet to express their inner rage they should have just gone to that website that has the free killing game.

Damn...what was that site again...oh yeah, US Army.com

[Spinzonner]

29. Use a pencil

Go to prison

[billyoc]

31. Well, I don't have children,

but where are they gonna put the skyscraper prisons for all the bored stick-figure felons? :crazy:

[truthisfreedom]

32. initials?

perhaps their lawyers will get them off on lack of evidence.

when i was a kid, an afternoon in the principal's office was enough to quell a violent threat.

nowdays i'm amazed this made it into the news... one would expect a stun-gun to be at the forefront of such a recent story.

[WritersBlock]

34. More on the story from the AP

The boys were arrested Monday on charges of making a written threat to kill or harm another person, a second-degree felony.

The special education students used pencil and red crayon to draw primitive stick figure scenes on scrap paper that showed a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said.

"The officer found they were drawing these pictures for the sole purpose of intimidating and scaring the victim," said Ocala Police Sgt. Russ Kern.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGBSQZJZE4E.html

There could very well be some information that the officer was privy to, not included in the story for whatever reasons, which made an arrest necessary. In fact, with my absolute faith in the media, I'd bet money on it.

But even if an arrest was absolutely necessary, surely there was some other statute that two 10-year-old special education students could have been charged under for this, rather than a second-degree felony? I thought there was a certain amount of discretion allowed when an officer is in an arrest situation, especially when children are involved.

[henrik larssonisking]

40. more sense

now it makes more sense, if they were using the drawings to intentionally intimidate the other kid then there does need to be some intervention, but being arrested on felony charges is a step to far.

[salin]

43. agreed on all points...

sounds like it was bullying/harassment... not quite reaching felony standards unless there was specific violent behavior involved (eg did the kids act on impulses and beat the victim up?) - however a serious intervention sounds needed not only to stop the behavior, but also to prevent similar behavior in the future (from these students and other students), and to make the target feel 'safer' (no child should have to live in fear at school). I hope that the school is offering support to the victim that is helpful and not the simplistic "just toughen up" advice and leaving it at that. Kids who are targets need coping skills, they also need a sense of security, and a sense of belonging... rather than a sense that the adults as well of the kids are all complicit because they say and do nothing (leaving the child increasingly isolated.)

[txaslftist]

66. "Drawn for the sole purpose of intimidating and scaring..."

That's statutory language that the cop IMO took verbatim from the charging statute. He would have had to put that verbage in the complaint to confer jurisdiction in the court. My experience is that cops use a standardized form for filing complaints and this language would be in it, regardless of his personal 'findings'. And also my experience with metro desk reporters, the reporter copied the language verbatim from the complaint and added to the story.

I'd say that language has as little independent meaning in a story as it does in the press coverage of the trials I've handled.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. Handcuffs on kids for making a drawing. Interesting. What's next?....

....getting arrested for looking at another kid the wrong way, or for failing to be quiet during class?

[BiggJawn]

41. I feel sorry for people with school-age kids now...

Sometimes I get the sense that our schools have become laboratories for MSW people to work out their half-baked doctoral thesi in...

these two are lost, now that "The System" will grind them under its wheels...

[henrik larssonisking]

47. home schooling

this kind of stuff is one of the reasons that my wife is seriously considering home schooling our son, and im getting close to agreeing with her.

[BiggJawn]

54. Yeah, it's not just for "Fundy Nutcases" anymore.

Where would you go about finding a curiculum that teaches REAL science, not "Intelligent Design", though?

[athenap]

78. do a google...

...on "unschooling," "Waldorf," or "Montessori," to start. UnSchooling is what many folks who do not seek to homeschool to teach only wingnut-approved curricula are calling their homeschool efforts, in order to differentiate. Unschooling is less of an effort to restrict curricula and more of an effort to change the manner in which the curriculum is taught (student-led learning, alternative-to-classroom teaching, fewer or no "learn by rote" tests, etc.)

[Tsiyu]

108. Use the library, Encyclopedia Brittanica

the internet.

You can find plenty of non-Fundy material out there.


The Good Ol Schoolhouse just isn't what it used to be.

[kath]

104. hey, crap like this is yet another reason I'm very glad our kids don't go

to school. As patcox2 said above, "when school administrators and cops join forces, stupidity knows no limits".

And "zero tolerance" means zero thinking involved. Such policies don't teach kids to respect authority -- they just teach kids that adults (or at least those in charge of schools with these polices)are fucking assholes. And they'd be right, in this case. Getting suspended for having Tylenol in your purse, etc, etc, etc. - the stories of "zero tolerance" run amok are legion. Assholes.

[CreekDog]

48. I'm not hearing any good things about Florida these days

Jeb is not doing so hot, huh?

[noonwitch]

49. Isn't this a matter for the school and the parents to handle?

The kids need some consequences, sure, but felony charges? Kids who beat up other kids on the playground don't face felony charges and they actually act on their violent impulses.

Oh, yeah, it's in Florida.

[AngryOldDem]

52. Good point

When schools begin to take bullying seriously, and respond to it quickly and consistently, THAT will be progress.

In the meantime, stuff like this is just plain ridiculous, but I guess it's easier to pick up the phone and call the cops than get the kids together and actually talk to them and explain just why the drawings are inappropriate.

[paineinthearse]

53. "Other pieces of scrap paper listed misspelled profanities..."

Freepers need to start somewhere.

[ecstatic]

55. felony? And this is another symptom of our media

What are kids supposed to think? All day they see violent images in their cartoons, on the news, in movies... I believe in free speech but all the violence combined with a gross lack of guidance by parents (who are struggling to work 2-3 jobs) is taking it's toll on our society.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

56. i'm speechless

:scared:

[ernstbass]

59. Shouldn't these kids have been tasered?

After all this is Florida we're talking about!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

65. Yeah!! Followed by a few close-range rubber bullets, and finished....

...off with a good dose of pepper spray applied with a Q-tip directly to the eyeball.

That'll teach'em to depict violence in drawings, by golly!

Yikes.

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. These are not simply "drawings"

What they did is harassment--threats to kill. In our state if you threaten to kill someone, and the person is in reasonable fear that the act could be carried out--it is a felony.

My guess is that there is more to the story we are not hearing--that would cause the kid to be in fear that they would act on their threats.

Also: in WA children between 9 and 11 years are presumed incapable of committing a crime--the presumption can be overcome by a hearing that would show they knew what they did, and knew that it was wrong.

It is not ok to threaten to kill someone. I imagine that the target of the threats was scared. In this Columbine day and age--actions like those deserve swift and decisive responses. This is more than simply drawings.

When my daughter was 13 a boy in her class started sending her threatening e-mails. I tried to handle it through the schools and through the parents--to no avail. The school counselor said he was a good boy and meant no harm. His mother (dad was gone) had nothing to say--and just made excuses for his behaivor.

After school and parental "intervention" (which was to sweep it under the carpet) the threats continued. I called the police and got a restraining order. Were these just innocent e-mails? No more than these drawings were innocent.

I can see the headlines now if the police were not notified, and the child was hurt.

I am surprised at your responses: to minimize these threats as "drawings" and to vilify the police for taking the threats seriously.

[knitter4democracy]

76. I'm sorry your daughter went through that.

Yet, there is a difference between 9 years and 13 years of age (having taught both ages, I can attest to that). Nine year old special needs kids are even more different. If the school and parent interventions didn't work, then it's time to turn to the police, just like you handled it. I certainly don't think something against another student, if within a pattern of behavior, should be ignored (if it's a one-time thing, then ignore it), but charging them with second-degree felonies is too much.

[DaDeacon]

88. Oh Please...

You know what, read 1984, and comeback with your eyes opened! (j/K) But for real if the case was about theses kids bullying or beating up the kid up I would understand however it was stick figures ....STICKFIGURES! We must stop this instant worse case thing we as a society have been doing! Kids are cruel but most aren't killers. A good talking to with parents and the teacher should have been as far as this needed to go PERIOD! This kind of reaction removes the level so severity to the real action "Hell, I get put in cuffs for a picture why not just do it for real, same damn results and I get the guy i don't like?" reaction to events is just as important as the severity of the act!

[youngdem]

89. We are talking about..

children that are in a special educations program. What we do not know is what the children depicted in the drawings might have done to these two young boys that drew the "stick figures." As a mother myself, I would think that counseling (with all parties involved) would suffice. Now these children that already have special needs are going to carry this stigma with them for the rest of their lives. (Sealed court records, my ass!!)

[DrWeird]

94. This is obviously evidence of witchcraft.

Kind of like voodoo dolls.

Better chop off their hands, just to be on the safe side.

[bullimiami]

67. our culture has crossed into utter ignorance.

police, handcuffs, arrests, felony. for 10 year olds drawing stick figures.

this has to be the most brutal, useless and unproductive way to handle the situation.

parents, counselers and psychologists to find out if this is a serious sign or just inappropriate but harmless expression.

i hate what this country has become.

[Guns Aximbo]

68. freedom is lost under Bush

We've all know that freedom of speech is being attaked by the Fascists Party also known as Republicans. Now we have freedom of expression being attacked.

Can anyone guess what will come next?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

70. Holy fuck! Why not some counseling?

Is there something in the drinking water in Fla?

[Misunderestimator]

96. It's Florida's version of three-strikes...

but the system counted wrong...

[wickywom]

97. When you drive thru the everglades...

there are mercury contamination warning signs..?

[knitter4democracy]

75. Sheesh. I used to have students draw the same kind of stuff

using me as the target. I just ignored it, and they stopped. It's usually to get attention and also to let off some anger. I'd rather have a kid draw a picture than actually do something. Charging them isn't going to do squat--get them some therapy, instead.

[CTLawGuy]

79. I'm sure they'll be tried as adults

while of course not being given adult rights, just held to adult responsiblities.

because adulthood is conferred on people in partial form, whenever the state finds it convenient.

[primavera]

81. Good thing they aren't in Texas

They'd probably have been executed by now.

[DaDeacon]

85. Get use to it ...

This is all traing for a future where, what you think is worth jailing ...wake up now while we have time to change it...any one live in the area of this crime? Get calling get active !!!

[DaDeacon]

86. Also ....this has done more damage to the kids...

now you go them being treated, labeled, and confronted like criminals , time is running out!

[VegasWolf]

90. I'm thinking that Florida is suffering from an identity crisis. n/t

[JohnLocke]

93. Good.

Little shits like this ought to be scared.

[Devlzown]

95. I keep thinking about the picture

of the Iraqi with the black cape over him and wires coming out of him. What if they had drawn stick figures doing that to someone?

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

98. Two Boys Arrested For Violent Stick Figure Drawings

"OCALA, Fla. -- Two children were taken away from school in handcuffs because of pictures they drew. Police say they're violent threats, but parents say police have gone too far."

http://www.wftv.com/news/4130375/detail.html

See the picture at this website.
Doesn't see like a bit much to handcuff them and charge them with a felony for drawing a picture? These are 10 year olds.
Kids used to draw these kinds of pictures all the time when I was in school.

[NYC]

99. Initial report:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1183498

[Moderator]

100. duplicate

locking

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1183498

[Bo]

105. I forgot I was in Alternate Reality again

I hate when that happens....not suprising charge them with felonies of course while we kill Innocents for oil.

[despairing optimist]

107. The boys' defense: He was atheist, pro-choice and pro-gay marriage

Judge: Oh. That's different. Never mind. Come to the Florida Sunshine Tree!