Confidence in Iraq's Future Slips ( Bush's base)

[moobu2]

WASHINGTON -- Some of President Bush's bedrock supporters -- Southerners and rural residents -- have lost confidence in the likelihood of a stable, democratic Iraq.

Euphoria over the swift toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime has been dimmed by the violent struggle to install a new Iraqi government.

If it continues, the decline in optimism among those groups, part of Bush's base vote in November, could make it harder to rally congressional support for his Iraq policies.

The Army plans to keep troop strength in Iraq at current levels through 2006, which would include the November midterm elections.

Newsday

[GetTheRightVote]

1. Due to the American Public learning the truth perhaps, do you think.

:kick:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Don't worry bush base

nest stop IRAN... and yuo will drink the kool aid as well, we are sure of it... or maybe, just maybe yuo have learned your lesson... this man is a Chronic Liar

[Skittles]

3. gee, and all it took was thousands and thousands of dead people

dead soldiers, dead civilians, dead chilren. I AM DISGUSTED.

[eleonora]

4. damn, Americans are SLOW

Didn't we all talk about this eons ago already, especially here on DU? Why are people so stupid? In a perfect world I'd ban FOX News.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Rural Americans think of foreigners in a hostile manner.

For them, they're not really on the same level. They're people to be suspicious of, hate and kill when necessary.

[Calvinist Basset]

34. Whoa, there!

Don't make a sweeping generalization like that. I am a "Rural American" who is very open-minded, and I have many "Rural American" friends who think the same way I do. Granted, we are in the significant minority--but not all of us can be described as hostile toward people of other nations . . .

[ashmanonar]

41. well, wouldn't that violate free speech?

not that i'm disagreeing with you, but you have to be realistic. but i wouldn't mind having more liberal media, that can take on faux nuisance at every turn. there's always gonna be wingnuts who want faux, and it's pointless to talk about banning it. but we can make it look ludicrous by putting up accurate and real news, and not the bullshit they usually put up.

[LynnTheDem]

5. Bloody FOOLS. WTF took em so long to figure that out???

Dick Cheney in April 1991, then Defense Secretary:

If you're going to go in and try to topple Saddam Hussein,you have to go to Baghdad. Once you've got Baghdad, it's not clear what you do with it. It's not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that's currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts toward the Islamic fundamentalists?

How much credibility is that government going to have if it's set up by the United States military when it's there? How long does the United States military have to stay to protect the people that sign on for that government, and what happens to it once we leave?

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2072479

President GHW Bush, 1998;

"Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

http://www.rense.com/general43/quote.htm

James Webb, former Sec. of Navy under Ronald Reagan, Decorated Marine Veteran:

"Do we really want to occupy Iraq for the next 30 years? …In Japan, American occupation forces quickly became 50,000 friends. In Iraq, they would quickly become 50,000 terrorist targets…. Nations such as China can only view the prospect of an American military consumed for the next generation by the turmoil of the Middle East as a glorious windfall."

http://www.sftt.org/article09302002a.html

Col. David Hackworth (ret), America's most highly decorated soldier:

"Should the president decide to stay the war course, hopefully at least a few of our serving top-uniformed leaders - those who are now covertly leaking that war with Iraq will be an unparalleled disaster - will do what many Vietnam-era generals wish they would have done: stand tall and publicly tell the America people the truth about another bad war that could well lead to another died-in-vain black wall. Or even worse."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29786

Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, former Head of Central Command for U.S.:

"It's pretty interesting that all the generals see it the same way, and all the others who have never fired a shot, and are hot to go to war, see it another…We are about to do something that will ignite a fuse in this region that we will rue the day we ever started."

Hawks in the Bush administration may be making deadly miscalculations on Iraq, says Gen. Anthony Zinni, Bush's Middle East envoy.

"I'm not sure which planet they live on"

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/10/17/zinni

Republican Dissent on Iraq"
Full page ad in Wall Street Journal by major GOP contributors:

"Mr. President, …The candidate we supported in 2000 promised a more humble nation in our dealings with the world. We gave him our votes and our campaign contributions. That candidate was you. We feel betrayed. We want our money back. We want our country back…. A Billion Bitter enemies will rise out of this war."
- Wall Street Journal, January 13, 2003

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/001444.html

General Joseph Hoare (Ret), the former marine commandant and head of US Central Command:

"The idea that this is going to go the way these guys planned is ludicrous. There are no good options. We're conducting a campaign as though it were being conducted in Iowa, no sense of the realities on the ground. It's so unrealistic for anyone who knows that part of the world. The priorities are just all wrong."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/091704Y.shtml

Col. Mike Turner (ret), Schwarzkopf's personal briefing officer during Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm:

“The uniformed Joint Staff in the Pentagon strongly opposed this plan early on...The uniformed Joint Staff was overridden, yet in so many horrifying ways this operation resembles Somalia, not Desert Storm...Perhaps we can pull this off, but here's a far worse scenario that's at least as likely...Photos of American soldiers amid landscapes of Iraqi civilian bodies blanket the world press which aligns unanimously against the US. The US is condemned by NATO and the UN...The war ends within a few weeks, but the crisis deepens...”

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/transcripts/2003/mar/030311.turner.html

Love America, Hate Bush

[soup]

10. Dick Cheney is sure singing a different tune nowadays,

isn't he?

Thanks for the links.

Gen. Zinni's quote bears repetition.. "We are about to do something that will ignite a fuse in this region that we will rue the day we ever started."

HELLO??? anybody home? *sigh* Guess they're all out shopping for flag stickers.

[hadrons]

6. not to worry, the 'morans' will grease themselves up & take it in the can

for the great one and his party in 2006

[llmart]

7. Agreed.

That's what makes them so stupid. They'll still continue to vote Republican - that is, until they and their loved ones are drafted to actually get off their Barcoloungers and have to fight Bush's wars for oil. Then you'll see an uproar. But as long as someone else's loved ones are doing all the dying, then they couldn't care less.

I like another DU'ers's idea of the bumper sticker "Draft Republicans." I think we all should have them.

[Kolesar]

8. That's why Bush delayed the assault on Fallujah until November

That huge number of casualties in November would have surely cost him the election. I know, let's air drop Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-GA, into Mosul.

[saigon68]

9. NO Way

That's like dropping a TURD in a Punch Bowl of fruit drink.

[Kolesar]

14. Did I say he would be wearing a parachute? ... eom

[meti57b]

12. "We can't pull out now, not after all those guys have died,"

~snip~
... said Janice Shinn, a Republican-leaning postal worker from Pedricktown, N.J. "But we have to see it through. We can't just leave like we did in Vietnam."
~snip~
----------------

Oh yeah, sure ... much better if we lose 50,000 more guys and then leave?

[yorkiemommie1]

44. this is always their rationale

stupid, isn't it? keep 'em dying so we can fill up another huge memorial with names.

and the dark ship sails on.....

[Massachusetts]

13. WASHINGTON -- Some of President Bush's bedrock supporters

- Southerners and rural residents -- have lost confidence in the likelihood of a stable, democratic Iraq.

These Morons don't even know where North Dakota is let alone Iraq.
:bounce:

[yellowcanine]

15. "We can't pull out now, not after all those guys have died,"

Vietnam Syndrome deja vu. "If we leave the dead will have died in vain. So let's stay until thousands more are dead."

U.S KIA in Vietnam

1961-1965 1,864
1966 5,008
1967 9,378
1968 14,594
1969 9,414
1970 4,221
1971 1,380
1972 300
Total 47,378 (Includes some additional WIA and MIA)

Total U.S. dead, all causes: 58,202

To date in Iraq: 1,417 We will likely pass the Vietnam death toll for 1961-1965 in 2005, about half the time. So those who say this isn't Vietnam are correct. It is worse.

[ktowntennesseedem]

48. Chilling figures!

The dead have already died in vain: no WMDs, no immediate threat, no link to 9/11. Tell me again why we are there?

[truthpusher]

16. Poll: Confidence in Iraq's future slips

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/international/index.ssf?/base/international-21/1106745543197120.xml&storylist=international

Poll: Confidence in Iraq's future slips

1/26/2005, 8:39 a.m. CT
By WILL LESTER
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — Some of President Bush's bedrock supporters — Southerners and rural residents — have lost confidence in the likelihood of a stable, democratic Iraq.

(snip)

Optimism has waned in the last eight months in almost every group of Americans. But it remains strongest among Republicans and suburbanites, especially men, and those who are married, according to polls conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs.

Some of the larger declines in optimism came among Southerners, Northeasterners, rural Americans and women 45 and over. Other groups that showed a significant decline were those with incomes between $25,000 and $50,000 a year, young men, those without college educations — groups very likely to know people serving in Iraq.

"The trend in public opinion about the war has been steadily coming down for two years," said Charles Franklin, a political scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who has been closely watching the trends. "The presidential campaign halted the slide. It tended to connect feelings about Iraq to how people were voting.

more:
http://www.nola.com/newsflash/international/index.ssf?/base/international-21/1106745543197120.xml&storylist=international

[GetTheRightVote]

17. Bring Our Troops Home Now !!!!

:kick:

[sam sarrha]

19. bring them home now !! and arrest the liers who started it..

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :grouphug:

[inslee08]

18. Hmm...the list of "optimism declines"

seems to be all encompassing...

[bigendian]

20. As a Southerner.....

I can tell you that a military occupation leaves its mark for generations.
I can imagine an Iraqi of the future saying, "Forget, hell!"
Perhaps this explains the pessimism of the South regarding Iraq.

[ashmanonar]

42. yea, i think they have more experience with this than people originally

from the north. sherman cut a wide path of destruction across the south.

[Ripley]

21. Why do you put "southerners?" in parenthesis?

When the article also lists the larger declines in optimism among Northeasterners, rural Americans and women 45 and over? Flamebait? Let's see how many nasty remarks we can get about Southerners?

I think it's obvious that the higher the death toll and the more soldiers come back and tell about the horrors there the numbers who support the war everywhere will drop. Especially after a bloody day like today. Too bad all those Bush supporters in all 50 states didn't take the time to see how badly the war was going before they voted for him.

You know there are probably more pockets of deep red in Colorado where Bush got 70% plus votes than Alabama, so why don't you back off?

[txaslftist]

24. Shaddap ya dang rebel sympathizer!

Ya know ya ain't allowed to defend the south on this webstie.

Ya cracker racist hillbilly trailer livin' sister lovin' hick!

This here is a Yankees only site, since the south gone red! "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord..."

(sarcasm off)

[Spiffarino]

28. The South-bashing

...is really starting to stick in my craw.

My home state - North Carolina - had a higher percentage of Kerry voters than many of the flyover states, as did Virginia and South Carolina.

I don't hear anybody talking about how backward and stupid those "damn Dakotans and Nebraskans" are. Lay off already.

[Ripley]

32. No kidding.

I nominate you for best Avatar! lol! :7

[Johnny Noshoes]

40. This New Yorker

is gettin tired of the south bashing as well. Hey look there are Bushbots and wingnuts everywhere in Bush's America THEY are the bad guys.


"But what I do believe in is keeping promises to the people," she said. "I told them election night - and I didn't know how prophetic this was - that if I had to stand alone, I will do it. I am not afraid." - Barbara Boxer


"When you trade your values for the hope of winning, you end up losing and having no values....so you keep losing." Howard Dean 2004

[calimary]

45. Isn't it true, though, that much of the deployment to Iraq has been

from the South - lots of military bases in the Sunbelt. So it stands to reason that there is perhaps a disproportionate number of people who are starting to feel the pain. Especially since - as they send more kids to Iraq, the probability is greater that they'll get those kids back in body bags - OOOOPS! Excuse me!!!! I mean "transfer tubes."

It's just a mess. I'm sorry to see southerners taken apart here, even while I haven't been all that understanding myself, at times. But SHEESH, this war is fucking over EVERYBODY. Yes, sometimes I lose patience with southerners. In fact, I'm sorry to say sometimes I find it hard to feel sympathetic - (the old "you made the bed, you lie in it" argument). But I also know that a southern mom who's lost her son cries tears every bit as real as mine out here in LIBERAL Land, California (I live just a stone's throw from the People's Republic of Santa Monica). MAN, I'm in a conciliatory mood here tonight - must not be feeling well...

One can only hope more people from more "red" areas around the country start waking up. But I hate to think of the price they'll have paid for their enlightenment. It's a price we're all pay as a nation. The jackass who really NEEDS to pay, BIGTIME, keeps getting off scott-free.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Many Southerners & rural residents have sent family members to Iraq.

Military service is both a proud duty & a way out of poverty for many of these people.

By now, they've heard what their returning soldiers have to say about Iraq. Or they're wondering about those who returned in a box.

[deutsey]

23. So? If they end up voting against the GOP in the future

their votes won't be counted either.

[Straight Shooter]

25. "We can't pull out now ..." Who the F*CK made up that RULE???

We damn sure can pull out now. It doesn't mean they died "in vain." What kind of backwards thinking is that?

We now enforce stricter laws on people who drive under the influence because too many people were dying in DUI-caused accidents. Does this mean that all those who died in accidents because the other driver was DUI died in vain? Hell no. It means We Learn From Our Mistakes. That is what being responsible is all about, to learn from one's mistakes.

But of course the bush administration doesn't make mistakes; it makes miscalculations.

31 Marines died in a copter "crash" today; 36 soldiers total, bloodiest day of the War. Maybe God is sending a message to bush and his followers. If they think the tsunami was "God's plan," what do they make of this?

[Cocoa]

26. that's the current big lie

the lies in the Iraq war are not history, they're still going on, and the TOTAL IGNORING of people who are calling for troop withdrawal is the latest example.

Marty Meehan should be all over our TV's after his speech yesterday:



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0501260337jan26,1,2445470.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

<snip>

Rep. Marty Meehan (D-Mass.) on Tuesday urged President Bush to announce a 12-to-18-month "phased withdrawal" of U.S. forces from Iraq, arguing that the large U.S. presence there is fueling the insurgency, not defeating it.

"Hard experience and tragedy have taught us that prolonged military occupation in Iraq will not end the insurgency, stabilize Iraq or bring us closer to our strategic goals," Meehan said while unveiling his plan at a Brookings Institution forum on the question of troop withdrawals. "It will only bring more casualties, and more hatred towards America, within Iraq and beyond."

More…

[Mynameissalvatore]

37. Meehan was a democrat who voted to let Bush have his way if

the UN didn't pass the resolution. It's too little too late from Meehan in my opinion

[ashmanonar]

43. oh, is that what this business about the

Marine Stallion choppers is about? did one crash? i live in a cave, apparently, and didn't read the news...

on edit: stupid grammar *grumble grumble*

[calimary]

46. I agree. Look, since this whole war has been a sham, why can't

we wrap it up with a sham?

LET'S JUST SAY WE WON, AND LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most of the bushbots who blindly and mutely accept everything that fucker says as Gospel-worthy will just buy that, too.

FUCK IT. Let's just say we won and get the hell out.

It seems to me that it's our very presence there that is throwing most of the gasoline on the fire. We're INVADERS. That's how we're perceived. INVADERS SHOULD LEAVE.

bush should just declare victory and get our troops the fuck OUTTA THERE.

Frankly, I don't see this as such an unreasonable option. Seriously. He's lied about it all, FROM THE GET-GO. Why not just be consistent? Let him lie about this, too. At least it'll bring our troops HOME. If it saved ONE MORE kid from losing a leg, or a right arm, or an eye, or their hearing, or a lifetime supply of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome - or his or her LIFE - it'd be worth it.

We leave. The UN comes in (after we're gone, I bet there will be more interest from at least a few other nations - especially those who hesitate BECAUSE WE'RE STILL INVOLVED). bush gets to lie, which he's good at, and to save face, which is really the only thing he's EVER interested in - saving his own ass.

All we are is one big giant scab-picker. As long as we're there, we're picking the scab so it stays open, vulnerable to infection, dirt, bacteria, gangrene, and everything else evil. If we go away, the scab stops being picked. Things get a chance to start healing, for a change.

Just my two cents.

[Ellie of Amherst]

50. Our soldiers dying in vain?

Pulling out now doesn't mean they've died in vain. They have died in vain already--they have died needlessly over some idiotic power trip from the * administration, for his lies and posturing and greed. THAT is dying in vain. Many more will die in vain until we get the hell out of there.

[Spiffarino]

27. The good news for the Republican base is

...they really don't care just as long as there's plenty of gas for the ol' SUV, no abortions, and plenty of dead brown people.

[go west young man]

29. This was a nobrainer from the beginning....

our admin knew he had no weapons, they new the shia were the majority and they new Iraq was actually a very stable country under the dictator Saddam Hussein. Thier neocon agenda topped all rational thought on this. The only conclusion would be the Shia becoming the majority and civil war breaking out.

[ernstbass]

30. Oh ye repugs of little faith!

[grace0418]

31. If you don't know it by now

you've really got your head up your ass.

[Calvinist Basset]

33. Why, O why, O why

didn't the confidence of these morons slip before the November election?

Never mind, I answered my own question.

[VegasWolf]

35. Damn, even the Southerners are catching on. Bad news for georgie!

[riffraff_va]

36. Why should Iraqis risk their lives?

Why should Iraqis risk their lives to vote on Sunday? They don't even know the candidates platform. What are they for and what are they against? They will be just voting to be voting.

And they aren't even voting for a person. They are voting for a party in one big election that will have 275 members in their government. This isn't a success. If I was a reporter, I would ask Bush if he knew either of those candidates position on the US occupying their land.

And what if they elect an American-hating, Christian-hating tyrant? Remember now, a democracy put Adolf Hitler in power.

[NYC]

49. Re voting for a party:

Even some of the more established parties... won't actually appear on the ballot under their own names. Some Iraqi press reports say as many as 53 parties may have actually withdrawn from the race, although their names may still appear on the list.

So, they don't even have an accurate list of parties.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1020618,00.html

[MADem]

38. I have been a rather vocal opponent of this misadventure

...from the git-go. And when those on the right start mentioning their new-found reservations to me, I make sure I to tell them that they are dumb bastards with blood on their hands, and that they just REFUSED TO LISTEN when they really needed to learn. I'm sure many of you can indeed imagine the horseshit arguments I have had to listen to and rebut about this stupid, brutal comedy of death over there; and I have to admit that I am not one of these types that says "Oh, well, now you have seen the light, brother." I say instead, "I TOLD YOU SO. You dumb fuck, it's YOUR FAULT. Next time maybe you will fucking think, and read, and LEARN, before you vote--asshole!!!! You are complicit in the deaths of these youngsters, by your vote, by your support, by your failure to speak out."

Bad attitude, probably...but I can't give these greasy, self-assured pigs a pass. I'm still too angered at the senseless, and growing, loss of life.

[carolinalady]

39. Jeb better do some PR control!!!! LOL. n/t

[jazzjunkysue]

47. "Pay attention: Iraq + Bombs = Pittsburgh. Geesh! How many times to I have

to tell you that if we drop bombs on Iraq they'll turn it into Pittsburgh? Ok, say, Oklahoma City. Ok, how about Spokane? Croatia? Zimbabwe? Siberia. We'll get it to look like something...I'll get back to ya on that. It's hard work."