San Francisco mulls fee on grocery bags

[jswordy]

SAN FRANCISCO -- City officials are considering a proposal to slap a 17-cent surcharge on paper or plastic shopping bags, a debate sure to be watched as a bellwether for other communities.

While no other U.S. city imposes a shopping bag tax, such a strategy has been successfully employed in the nations of Ireland, South Africa, Bangladesh, Australia, Shanghai and Taiwan.

If approved by the city's Board of Supervisors, the fee would apply only to grocery stores that report more than $2 million in annual sales. Other stores could eventually be targeted.

Mayor Gavin Newsom and Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi introduced a resolution Tuesday requesting a more detailed study on how much the city pays to collect and dispose of paper and plastic sacks.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Grocery%20Bags

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. i made myself canvas bags 18 years ago and use them even when

shopping in a department store or a mall....i think it is a good idea.

[dweller]

2. i've got all you want at .10/bag, 2 for .15...

+shipping and handling . . .


first the groc. stores give you more than you can possibly ever need, now they want to charge you?? At the store, i purchase 4 items, get home and they've put them in 6 plastic bags...wheeeeee..i'm going to be rich!!!


:eyes:

dp

[pompano dem]

3. Recycling - The 20 year Hoax

Penn & Teller had a show called BullSh*T and the discussed the subject of recycling. Basically it has been a failure and costs more than it returns. With regards to escalating land fills. All the garbage America will create over the next 1000 years would fit within a 35 by 35 mile square 100 feet deep. In the scheme of things that is pretty irrelevant. The only people that have truly benefited from recycling is the recycling companies that are subsidize by the government, oh lets not forget the lobbyists that the recycling companies hire.

If they truly wanted to cut down on bottles, bags, cans etc. They would attach a return deposit on them. A tax just increases the cost of goods and puts more money in the pockets of Government. As a kid Return Deposit was great, makes for great pocket change.

[Rockerdem]

5. I know

A lot of well-heeled corporations did most of the lobbying behind fronts. Much of the volume is sent to landfills anyway, after expensive separate collection. Cans and metal are worthwhile. Some plastic jugs are used. Bottles are a waste. But theres a glut of cardboard and paper, the biggest volume. Thats why so many newpapers were for it - with the collapse of newsprint prices, they were the biggest corporate beneficiaries of the push.

[SoCalDem]

6. Some stores here set up bins to collect the used bags..

The Health department made them remove them..It was a breeding ground for critters.. Lots of people stored bags in their garages and then toted them to the store to get rid of them...complete with roaches and other assorted creepy-crawlies..

If the "super fast" service was not NUMBER ONE..and they had decent training for their box-people, I would be happy.. I try to run to the end of the counter and bag my own stuff.. You can actually pack a bag properly and get much more in than the slapdash method they ususally use.. and your cold stuff could actually be all together.. what a concept!

[Rockerdem]

7. If its only 1-3 items, I tell them to keep the bag.

Dont develop the waste to begin with. Although, I reuse them by putting them in wastebaskets as liners. Saves having to buy special ones.

[SoCalDem]

9. I usually bag my own and although it seems wasteful,

I put a paper bag inside of the plastic one..That way I have handles, and can get about 3 times the stuff in one bag (I prefer heavier, but fewer bags).. I use them for kitchen waste bags...after the kittoes have had their fun romping through them:)

[realFedUp]

10. CA does have a return deposit

and we also have recycling in most communities...

I'm willing to use canvas or net bags to shop
with and don't see any harm in a tax that goes
back to the community they are used in.

[salin]

11. the proposal seems to be about reuse, rather than recycling

not unlike the deposit type plan to which you refer.

Don't think I would love the idea... but I do understand from where it emanates. If it looks popular - and I lived there - I would start requesting "Paper" - and saving the bags for reuse... just in case.

[PaulaFarrell]

12. why do you say it has been a failure?

firstly, it's not about whether there's profit to be made from it, it's about reducing landfills, saving energy and other resources, and protecting the environment. Also, have you included the cost of landfill disposal, decontamination of leaking landfills, etc in your your estimation. I'd be interested in a source for the total size of landfills needed - approx 230 millions tons of domestic waste are generated each year, so that would be 230 billion tons over 1000. I can't find any sources for the current volumes of landfill though, so I'd be interested where you got that figure.

secondly, while I agree there'd be more take-up with a deposit scheme, as I recall, it was the cola manufacturers etc. who decided they didn't want the hassle any more. I can't imagine it would be possible to force them back into a deposit scheme very easily. If the tax is dedicated to environmental schemes or to reducing the cost of gargage collection/litter picking services, what's so bad about that? Seems lilke a pretty good tax to me. It doesn't increase the cost of goods because you can always choose not to use the bags.

[Toots]

4. In many stores throughout Canada they charge extra for the bags

They always ask at the register and most people bring their own bags. I think it is just smart business as it allows prices to be a little less for merchandise and shoppers don't seem to mind at all.

[jswordy]

8. Now I'll weigh in with my opinion

I live out in the country, and these bags are real problems. Not only do they not break down, they can be ingested by animals and kill them. Cows and calves have died from them.

The plastic bags were introduced to save trees, but I would much rather have paper bags made with recycled paper. At least they will deteriorate and they do not harm animals if eaten.

You would not believe the number of plastic bags I pick up out here each year!

As far as recycling, its success depends on which material you are talking about. Recycling steel, copper and aluminum is profitable. Recycling newspaper is profitable. My own employer, a newspaper, does it as a profit center. But glass is not profitable, chiefly because of the color sorting. Likewise plastic, because of type sorting.

FUN FACT: The largest export of the United States in tonnage per year is used cardboard boxes. They are shipped to Japan and small woodless Asian countries, and recycled back into new boxes used to ship their electronics back to us. The shipment of our used cardboard to woodless countries is a profitable enterprise.

[unpossibles]

13. I think it is a great idea

it encourages people who are not wanting to pay to bring their own bags. I often bring my own bags to the store and also reuse the bags I do get at the store for cat litter or trash.

anecdote: my right wing libertarian dad always complains about how we destroy our forests, about too much packaging, and paper waste in general. So we went to the store one day for a few items and I brought my small backpack which holds pretty much exactly what the hand carts hold. He looked at me like I was crazy and asked why I was bringing it. :eyes: I explained to him that if he truly believes in cutting down on waste, his actions need to reflect that.

It's slowly been sinking in and he has recovered a lot - he's at least fairly central now instead of rightwing, and he still calls me a 'damn socialist' but he's getting much better. My yuppie accountant brother thinks dad's going crazy of course....