Riot disrupts Iraq expat ballot (Australia)

[DoYouEverWonder]

29 January, 2005

A riot has broken out at a polling station in Sydney, Australia, between expatriate Iraqi voters and protesters opposed to the poll.

The disturbance broke out when a group of 20 protesters started to shout insults at voters leaving the centre.

<snip>

Bernie Hogan, head of Australia's overseas voting programme, said the protesters held flags similar to those seen in videos released by Iraqi insurgents.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4214357.stm


If this is happening at the overseas voting, I can't imagine what tomorrow will bring.

[Pirate Smile]

1. If those protesters aren't Iraqis then they should just shut up.

Protest the war, Bush, etc. but why scream insults at the Iraqis.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. The article did not state the nationality of the protesters

I assumed they were Iraqi also.

[LiberalVoice]

3. Oh please...

90% of the voters voting at these polling stations are people who think Bush is a great guy and only wants peace for the Iraqi people. Most of those people will never even set foot inside that country again.
These people are tools who play along with the Bush doctrine of spreading "democracy". And play right into the hands of a puppet govt trying to take control in Iraq.

People that support this election are not friends of ours...They are sheep blindingly being led to the slaughter by Bush and his Ilk.

[Pirate Smile]

4. We sometimes dilute the validity of our arguments when we use them

against the wrong people.

[LiberalVoice]

5. Thankfully you neglected to provide an ounce of reasoning....

with that post. The people participating in this election are sheep who have fallen for the RW propaganda that Bush has spewed...They should be held just as accountable as those americans who voted for Bush. If you're a cog in the RW machine then you're a cog in the RW machine. Its as simple as that.

The next time you decide to post maybe you should think it through first.

[Pirate Smile]

6. You are right. I should have followed my first instinct and just not

responded.

I think protester's harassing the Iraqis going to vote is counter productive and makes people who are against the War (like me) look like jerks. It is the wrong target. It seems small so it probably won't matter. I'm glad no one in the US is doing that. Do you want to go to one of the five places where Iraqis are voting in the US and scream at them?

[LiberalVoice]

7. Wow...Did you pull that quote out of a RW play book?

"I think protester's harassing the Iraqis going to vote is counter productive and makes people who are against the War (like me) look like jerks."

You sound like Ann Coulter commenting on Anti-War protesters..."They just come off as cry babies."

So let me see if I understand this correctly....It's not ok for Bush to illegally invade a country and establish a puppet as leader, but it is ok for people of Iraqi decent to participate in the "(s)election" of said puppet. :eyes:

[Pirate Smile]

14. Anti-war protesters were protesting the people who started the War

like Bush, Rummy, etc and are continuing the War.

So what exactly is your opinion of any Iraqis who actually try to vote? Are they your enemy? Can you not distinguish between different groups of people?

[LiberalVoice]

29. Tell me what the difference is between Bush Voters...

And thos taking part in this election. The only people participating are those that have been fooled through RW propaganda that the election is in anyway legitimate. If they know it isn't legit then why would they participate?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. You keep assuming that the people protesting

were not Iraqi.

The article indicates that they are Iraqi and I think Iraqis anywhere in the world should have the right to protest what is being done to their country.

[Pirate Smile]

17. I thought the article didn't say. In my first comment I thought it was

clear that I differentiated between Iraqis and others.

It makes complete sense for Iraqis to protest but I thought it would be counterproductive if it was Australians screaming at the voters.

I think they should protest Bush and Howard. Somehow that has turned me into vile Ann Coulter.

:eyes:

I re-read the article. I see the protesters had the Iraqi insurgent flags and were taking pictures of the voters. The taking pictures is obviously to intimidate. I'm sorry but I think that is nasty.

[oasis]

9. Do you think they have a right to protest the legitimacy of the election?

[Pirate Smile]

21. Yes, and I think anybody can do that, not just Iraqis.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Many of those overseas voters are not Iraqis either!

All they needed was an Iraqi father in order to be eligible to vote.

This entire election is a sham! You can't have an election when your country is under a foreign occupation.

[Pirate Smile]

24. I don't disagree with you. I think it is a sham too.

[sunnystarr]

53. I haven't seen too much said of that so far..

unless it was a fast dying post. I'm just troubled that polling stations are being set up around the world for an election in Iraq. From what I understand many are now citizens of these countries and have no desire to return to Iraq.

Has this ever happened before? When US citizens are in other countries they don't have polling stations set up around the world for them to register and vote. They have to get an overseas ballot. How about elections in the UK or Europe or Canada? We don't set up polling stations for them to register and vote.

Am I the only one to think this is strange? Did each country print those ballots? I keep seeing Rod Serling and hearing doo doo doo doo .. doo doo doo doo.........

[VegasWolf]

56. but, but, bush said that they were Sovereign. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

71. Bush also said that the new Iraqi government was going to ask the US...

Bush also said that the new Iraqi government was going to ask the US to stay in Iraq, and this was before the first vote was cast!

Ohio and Baghdad!

[Joe Chi Minh]

18. If you need to

have that explained to you, why do you concern yourself with a political boar at all?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oasis]

11. Do you think the election is legitimate? Most of the candidates are in

hiding except for Bush's puppetboy Alawi.

As for Cuban exiles, a great many of them are right wing pigs and should stay the hell away of Cuba.

Castro deposed a dictator who was just a cruel as Saddam.

[candle_bright]

12. Think of it this way.

Some people think our last election was a sham. Does that give those people the right to interfere with people voting at the polls?

It seems reasonable to suggest another form of protest besides harrassing the voters.

[oasis]

15. It's quite possible that the protesters view the "voters" as participants

in Bush's international scam.

[candle_bright]

16. You may well be correct...

but that doesn't mean they are RIGHT to act on that by interfering with them voting.

I would never advocate that type of protesting. I think it's wrong.

What about the rights of the voters? Agree or disagree, they have rights too.

[Joe Chi Minh]

19. No, not quislings. Far from it.

[candle_bright]

20. Can you elaborate?

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

[Joe Chi Minh]

70. Well,

it's like this. To anyone with even the teeniest degree of political sophistication, this war was initiated and is being prosecuted for one reason and one reason alone. Imperial plunder. And the putative election: to imbue with a veneer of plausibility, the claim that the occupation was motivated by a philanthropic passion to spread freedom and democracy.

Subsumed within this is the intention to use Iraq as a testing ground for ultra-right wing capitalism, at the point of a gun. Hence the privatisations. Also, nae doot, it's a foothold and a kind of standing menace to the neighbourhood not to stand in their way; as well as a launch pad for further arbitrary invasions in pursuit of plunder.

Now, if America or the UK were to be invaded on a similar basis, I would consider anyone who helped to legitimise the invasion and occupation, (however innocently, as in the case of charities), effectively, as collaborators.

Now, I suspect that you know that what I say is true and don't really need to be told, so don't expect me to get involved in further nonsense, i.e. letting you jerk me around with dopey questions you know the answers to.

[oasis]

22. "interfering with them voting" ??? I didn't read that in the article. The

yelled, took pictures and waved flags.

For all we know, the "voters' interfered with a lawful protest.

[rodeodance]

23. the news (? which one) said that it was factions amongst the Iraqi that

caused the dispute.

[Pirate Smile]

26. Well, then this is just a tiny, tiny sign of the Civil War we all know is

to come.

[candle_bright]

25. yes, interfering with voters

I realize I didn't word that well in one of my posts.

Anyhow, taking pictures of voters is indeed interfering and was obviously intimidating. If you were afraid of retaliation for voting, would you like people taking your picture?

The protesters have the right to protest, but they do not have the right to intimidate the people participating in the election. Their rights stop where they infringe on others' rights.

[oasis]

27. Actual residents of Iraq are braving bullets in order to vote. Camera shy

expats should stay home if they feel intimidated.

[candle_bright]

28. Unreal

Camera shy, please. They aren't worried about being photographed for reasons of vanity, rather reasons of personal security.

I am really not getting some of the sentiments here, the ones directed at Iraqi citizens for excercising their rights.

[oasis]

30. Security?? They are in Australia. They even have gun control over there.

[candle_bright]

31. And as we all know

people still get killed and injured without a gun ever being involved.

[Rainscents]

37. 7000 thousand candidates???

First of all, I would not know who the hell to vote with that many candidates on the ballots and second, Bush and Allwai did this knowing well, this would confuse people and discourage from voting for other candidate... Perfect Storm! This Iraq election is total SHAM and RIGGED!!!

[oasis]

47. Bush praised voters who would risk their lives. He would scoff at wimps

who were afraid of taunts and jeers. So do I.

[Pirate Smile]

40. Me either. It is bizarre.

Welcome. :hi:

[sweetbutterfly]

34. Yes, that's true...

but why is it okay to intimidate the ones that aren't actually being shot at?

[candle_bright]

36. It's not okay. n/t

[oasis]

45. I never said it was okay. I said if they felt intimidated they should stay

home. It is far saer than conditions in Iraq. They can deal with it.

edit: I read another report about physical encounter. Who did what to who is yet to be determined.

[sweetbutterfly]

38. I agree with you candlebright!

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oasis]

46. Those "allegations" of voter intimidation in America were true. State

intimidation is quite different from any that might come from private citizens.

[candle_bright]

48. Wait a minute

You are picking and choosing what kind of voter intimidation is okay and what kind isn't okay. Thankfully, you don't make the rules.

NO voter intimidation is okay.

[oasis]

49. The election itself is suspect. That's the point. The Iraqis involved in

it have a better take on its legitimacy than you or I.

[candle_bright]

50. Including the Iraqis who are VOTING.

Let them make their own choices, while respecting each other's right to participate or not.

[oasis]

51. Voters chose to vote, and did. Protesters chose to protest, and did.

The article doesn't mention that anyone was prevented from voting.

[candle_bright]

54. Umm...

No. According to you, the Iraqi voters at this poll in Australia should be content to have two choices:

1) Be intimidated at the poll
2) Stay home

We are talking about *voter intimidation.* You think it's okay. I think it's wrong.

[oasis]

57. Let's (for the sake of argument) assume that it is intimidation. They can

still vote. By my count they have 3 choices. 3) vote despite intimidation.

[candle_bright]

58. Again

You are condoning and making excuses for voter intimidation.

Would YOU like to be intimidated at a polling place? How about your family? Your best friends? Your grandmother?

The clear and rational condition should be voting (or not voting) without intimidation. Protesting is one thing, intimidation is another. And intimidation is what we are talking about.

[oasis]

59. One man's intimidation is another man's irritation. Some folks are

intimidated by a scowl. :scared:

As for me and my family etc.,(we would vote btw) amid the
flashbulbs and all.


Edit for sp:

[candle_bright]

63. Answer one question, yes or no

Is voter intimidation okay?

[oasis]

65. If the protesters were permitted to be there it was obviously okay. I

didn't read of any arrests being made. :shrug:

Bush sees people in Iraq bravely willing to face death to vote he praises them, so do I.And I rarely agree with Bush. By the same token, I believe that people who are not in any danger, thousands of miles away, should just go to the polls without reservations.


That's how Mr. Bush and I see it.

[sweetbutterfly]

52. No it is not...

You mean if the Republicans, not government related, harass and intimidate Black voters in Florida, it's okay and the voters should stay home?

[oasis]

55. The Florida State troopers were acting under the direction of the

state of Florida. Jeb Bush (a Republican) is their boss.

Civilian Republicans wouldn't go into black polling places to make trouble because they know they would get their asses kicked.

[sweetbutterfly]

60. That wasn't the question.

[oasis]

66. That wasn't what happened in Florida either. Citizens weren't harrassing

black voters in Florida, police were. That's illegal, unlawful and not okay.

In most states here in America there is no campaigning allowed near polling places.

[sweetbutterfly]

68. I work the polls every year

and there is always campaigning right outside the polling places...looks like a carnival with all of the signs and workers and leaflets for all sides.

[oasis]

69. What state? Or are the polls you work in the U.S.?

[sweetbutterfly]

32. Wow

that's a pretty sweeping statement about Cubans...not certain that it's very tolerant to call them "pigs"...certainly inflammatory and discriminatory based soley on their ethnicity.

[rodeodance]

39. they are voting for a particular Party tomorrow--yes, many indivduals

within each Party.

[rodeodance]

41. Q&A: Iraqi election

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3971635.stm


Q&A: Iraqi election
....

Who is likely to win?

Since Shia Muslims form about 60% of the population, parties representing them are likely to win the most seats. These parties have united in a list called the United Iraqi Alliance.

On the other hand, the Sunni Muslims, with about 20% of the people, are either boycotting the election or will find it hard to vote because of the violence which mainly affects their areas.

Mr Allawi has......

[Judi Lynn]

62. You may have been thinking of their vicious behavior in the 2000 election

Laura Vianello and Miguel Saavedra: Vigilia Mambisa ringleaders

The call came over the airwaves as it had so many times before. On Wednesday, November 22, Radio Mambí (WAQI-AM 710) and La Poderosa (WWFE-AM 670) reverberated with the cries of political advocates, among them U.S. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and state Sen. Mario Diaz-Balart, urging people to descend on the Stephen P. Clark Government Center in downtown Miami.
Enraged Republican operatives imported from dozens of states needed help. The Republicans, mainly congressional staffers, already had filled the county-election department reception area, banging on doors and shouting in protest of a decision to count ballots away from public view. A number of them even had accosted a local Democratic Party stalwart, chasing after him in the false belief he had stolen a ballot.

It was no secret which political party the majority of local Cuban Americans supported. Stung by Elian Gonzalez's violent removal in April, a popular slogan in Little Havana this past summer was "Mr. Clinton, we will remember in November."

But this time few heeded the call. In fact only one anti-Castro exile organization of the scores that operate in South Florida reinforced the Republicans. Vigilia Mambisa mustered about 25 people for a demonstration outside the county hall, where they gamely shouted, "We want Bush! No more Gore!" Leading them in the chants through his bullhorn was Mambisa president Miguel Saavedra. He and some of the others, encouraged by GOP officials, would continue to follow the Republicans throughout the week as the demonstrations moved from Miami-Dade to Broward and then on to Palm Beach.
(snip/...)

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2000-12-07/metro.html

[oasis]

67. Righties would be double glad for Castro to be replaced by this slime.

Freedom for Cuba but not for here in the USA.

[Jack_DeLeon]

42. Thats fucked up...

yeah I can undestand people who are against the war, by why would anyone want to distrupt and election. Thats fucking rediculous.

[rodeodance]

43. here is another story with a bit of a differnt take on it.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-iraq29.html

Scuffles break out at Australia polling station

January 29, 2005

BY ED JOHNSON ASSOCIATED PRESS

LONDON-- Fistfights broke out at an Australian polling station for Iraqis abroad Saturday when a group of Islamic extremists chanted slogans against those casting ballots, while Iraqis around the world voted for a second day in their homeland's election.

The scuffle was the first report of trouble to mar polling that began a day earlier under tight security, allowing Iraqi expatriates in 14 countries to cast absentee ballots for Iraq's first democratic election in half a century.

Most Iraqis were enthusiastic as they lined up at the ballot boxes, even turning out in the hundreds in the Jordanian town of Zarqa, the hometown of Iraq's most feared terrorist leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, election officials said.

[no safe haven]

44. No "riots" reported in Australian media

http://smh.com.au/articles/2005/01/28/1106850110818.html

...snip...

The local election was not unopposed. On the other side of the street, a group called the Workers' Communist Party of Iraq called on people through loudhailers to boycott the vote.

Mazin Nadir said: "You are free here, but back in Iraq your families are voting for the oppression of workers."

A voter started shouting back but was quickly stopped by colleagues. Police, who arrived at the scene, did not intervene.

Mr Nadir told the Herald that said his group, which had put posters up around Iraqi population centres, wanted people to know that those now being elected would merely serve as puppets. But such protests were quickly brushed aside in an atmosphere of celebration, with Assyrians in traditional costume dancing outside the voting centre.

In the meantime, Newsday reported:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-australia-iraq-overseas-vote,0,276357.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

...snip...

Thair Wali, an Iraqi adviser for the International Organization for Migration, said the protesters' flag and Arabic slogans identified them as Wahabis, followers of an austere brand of Sunni Islam practiced mostly in Saudi Arabia.

Wahabis are suspected of having influence over militants waging a 17-month insurgency in Iraq.

Wali said the fight broke out after the protesters took pictures of voters. "This is scary for the people, taking photos of the voting," he said.

Many of Australia's estimated 80,000 Iraqis declined to register for the election, fearing their votes would make relatives in Iraq terrorist targets.

Take your pick. Other than BBC, which seems to have Newsday as its source, there is nothing reported in the media of a "riot". Believe me, if riots had occurred, we would have heard about it.

[daleo]

61. If they want to vote in Iraqi elections, they should live there.

With some limited exceptions (travelers, people on work postings) it makes no sense to allow people who don't even live in a country to vote in its elections:

- they don't pay taxes.
- they don't have to live with the consequences.

If people want to vote in a country's elections, they should vote with their feet first.

[exploited]

64. Another report: Bomb scare -- 'Police made no arrests'

Police cordoned-off Queen St, Auburn, after a violent scuffle broke out between supporters of terrorist leader Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi and advocates of democracy.

Minutes later, a rucksack found abandoned outside the polling station sparked a bomb scare.

Police evacuated the polling station, the Auburn Hotel next door and the Turkish Weekly News opposite, closing the street until they confirmed the bag was harmless.

A polling centre security spokesman, who asked not to be named, said: "These protestors were supporters of Al-Zarqawi and Al-Qaeda and they did not support the American invasion of Iraq".
"They were trying to stop people from voting and they were pulling down posters and shouting slogans."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12093699-1242,00.html

Fricken "War on Terra"!